NCAA Tourney pulled from Greensboro

[Dattier]

I pretty much agree. But it's been politicized and depending on which side of the fence you are on, you are going to see it differently. But in the end, what you, I or anyone else believes isn't going to change anyone's mind by continuing this conversation.

What bothers me mostly about this is that even if you are against the bill, you should acknowledge that the NCAA should have stayed out of it. But that's just this guy's opinion.

What isn't politicized?

There are facts that should look the same way no matter which side of the fence you're on. That transgender rights to appropriate bathrooms is not a free-for-all for anyone to enter any restroom would be the first one I would want in place in any conversation moving forward.

I disagree that the NCAA should stay out of it. There are 5 states where public universities have been banned from traveling to NC; there are concerns about Title IX violations; there is the principle of full inclusiveness; there are many,many precedents for the overlap of sports and social issues.

 

[Dattier]

I can't believe that it's 2016 and with all the problems in this country and around the world, people are arguing and wanting to let boys and men use the same bathroom as their mothers, wives, sisters and daughters. I know there is more to the bill but this is the only thing people seem to be talking about. What has happened to common sense?

We should start this common-sense-mobile by dropping the line in bold. That just isn't true in any way, shape, or form. It's a classic strawman.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

As a Duke alumnus, I couldn't be any prouder of my school and Coach for how they have handled this issue.

Coach K: "I said during the start of our practice sessions in Vegas, when asked about HB2, I said it's embarrassing, and it still is embarrassing."

Duke: "We agree with the NCAA's decision. Our position has been clear on this matter, which is that this legislation is discriminatory, troubling and embarrassing. We deplore any efforts to deprive individuals, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, of legal protection and rights. We will always be committed to diversity and inclusion, and applaud any efforts to ensure that those values are protected and enacted at all times, and in all places in the state of North Carolina."

 

[Dahntay#1]

This one is a little tough for me. Although I am not for discriminating against anyone, and I do mean anyone, I do somewhat understand the concern of some males taking advantage of the law if it is overturned. With that being said, it is definitely valuable to know that there are essentially no incidents of this happening on record.

My question is, was it against the law before HB2 for a man to just go and post up in a women's bathroom? Not peeping or anything like that. Just posting up in the bathroom. Would that have been trespassing or would some other type of law have been broken? I will claim ignorance on this because I honestly don't know. I am asking because I just don't know how that would be handled if a man is just posting up in the woman's bathroom creeping people out. If it is not against the law, how would that be handled? That is my only hesitation.

 

[gottagonow]

There are murderers and pedophiles that have observable brain damage that causes those urges. We as a society still have to protect ourselves from these folks, but we don't have to be completely dispassionate to their condition. Sometimes it really isn't in their control. Do you think gay people just choose that lifestyle to be different? LBGT folks know it would be "easier" to live and work as straight, but one can only lie to one's self so long.

DukeDenver I am completely dispassionate to their condition where pedophiles and murderers are concerned. Is a murderer not a murderer regardless if a single murderer who pre-medicated his act or 50 in an Orlando night club. Does anyone feel compassion for a mass murderer or a serial killer. Also I have know several LBGT folks and all seen to have mental problems especially the less dominate male or female of the relationship. I think all LGBT have something mental that makes them want to be different than the way there were born.

 

[Dattier]

I think all LGBT have something mental that makes them want to be different than the way there were born.

How were they born, exactly?

 

[gottagonow]

How were they born, exactly?

Of one particular sex.

 

[Dattier]

Oh, so you were referring strictly to the T in LGBT?

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Also I have know several LBGT folks and all seen to have mental problems

 

[QC Dukie]

Just my opinion, but equating the two is pretty offensive.

How were they born, exactly?

Some vaginally, others C-Section probably.......
Sorry couldn't help it.

OFC

 

[dukephysics]

Everyone has his or her own opinion about HB2. What I am interested in hearing is how people feel about the NCAA/ACC trying to enact political change in NC. It is very similar to the Confederate flag thing. Does the NCAA have a right/obligation to put pressure on states that have laws/traditions that are opposite what might be seen as the values that the NCAA chooses to make an issue of? Or are they completely overstepping?
It seems like they have decided to pick out these issues because they can target one or two states. For instance, why not target anti-abortion or anti-same sex marriage states? Isn't it a little disingenuous to make a stand when it is convenient but to have nothing to say when it would be hard?

 

[gottagonow]

Whats wrong Mark do you have a headache?

 

[wormyone42]

Glad I am of the age I won't see the results of the enlightened ones running of the country.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Whats wrong Mark do you have a headache?

No, I'm baffled by the statement I quoted.

 

[Dattier]

Everyone has his or her own opinion about HB2. What I am interested in hearing is how people feel about the NCAA/ACC trying to enact political change in NC. It is very similar to the Confederate flag thing. Does the NCAA have a right/obligation to put pressure on states that have laws/traditions that are opposite what might be seen as the values that the NCAA chooses to make an issue of? Or are they completely overstepping?
It seems like they have decided to pick out these issues because they can target one or two states. For instance, why not target anti-abortion or anti-same sex marriage states? Isn't it a little disingenuous to make a stand when it is convenient but to have nothing to say when it would be hard?

I don't really see it as a move primarily to enact change. I think it's sincere non-support. If that sparks change, great, but that's not the primary motive.

I think they have a right and an obligation to their member institutions, and if that means standing up to something that is detrimental to their member institutions, so be it.

Abortion and marriage equality are protected in all 50 states.They're not things that are going to come up in connection w/ any of their tournaments, either. Where people get to pee in the public arenas does.

I don't begrudge people the right to change their mind, or to make their statement on their own timeline. That's particularly true when I agree with their statement -- I'm more into welcoming them to the right side than criticizing their timing -- but I don't recall the timing being significant to any disappointing shift in the other direction.

 

[pisgah101]

As for moving it I see it as a joke and an embarrassment. We watch sports to get away from regular day life. I don't give a crap what Coach K, the NCAA, Duke as a whole, the ACC, Kapernick, or anyone in the sports arena thinks about these things. Play sports and keep it separate

 

[Dattier]

thugs

Huh?

 

[DukeDenver]

DukeDenver I am completely dispassionate to their condition where pedophiles and murderers are concerned. Is a murderer not a murderer regardless if a single murderer who pre-medicated his act or 50 in an Orlando night club. Does anyone feel compassion for a mass murderer or a serial killer. Also I have know several LBGT folks and all seen to have mental problems especially the less dominate male or female of the relationship. I think all LGBT have something mental that makes them want to be different than the way there were born.

You don't want to read what I say and give it an honest evaluation? Fine. I guess this the end of our conversation. Back to enjoying Duke basketball.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Huh?

I guess he's racist for saying that.

Time for this to be locked up.

 

[skysdad]

I guess he's racist for saying that.

Time for this to be locked up.

Or just moved to The Lounge. OFC

 

[pisgah101]

Huh?

Things Ha! iPhone autocorrect sucks

 

[Dattier]

Things Ha! iPhone autocorrect sucks

Ha! Whew! That trips me up sometimes, too.

 

[Dattier]

I guess he's racist for saying that.

Time for this to be locked up.

I thought it was an odd term to apply to transgenders, so I asked a basic question with plenty of room for pisgah to reply without defensiveness. And hey! What do you know: that's exactly what pisgah did while you instead leapt to an incorrect, ugly, antagonizing conclusion. You don't appear to have taken a thing dukehokie said to heart. If this gets locked, it will have nothing to do with any failing on my part to carry on a respectful, thoughtful dialogue.

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

Has anyone seen that the ACC is moving all neutral site league tournaments out of North Carolina for this season?

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.n...ips-north-carolina-hb2.amp.html?client=safari

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I thought it was an odd term to apply to transgenders, so I asked a basic question with plenty of room for pisgah to reply without defensiveness. And hey! What do you know: that's exactly what pisgah did while you instead leapt to an incorrect, ugly, antagonizing conclusion. You don't appear to have taken a thing dukehokie said to heart. If this gets locked, it will have nothing to do with any failing on my part to carry on a respectful, thoughtful dialogue.

I admit that I jumped to an incorrect conclusion. It is from past experiences with you I guess. Carry on.

 

[Dattier]

Thank you. I don't deny that you have reason to be suspicious. I'm really trying to get past all that, and I think I'm doing a good job of it.

 

[hpnole]

And NC would still hold those events if Governor McCrory didn't pass the FIRST & ONLY state law in this country which overrides local Transgender laws.

No other state has a law similar to HB2.

which we d

Everyone has his or her own opinion about HB2. What I am interested in hearing is how people feel about the NCAA/ACC trying to enact political change in NC. It is very similar to the Confederate flag thing. Does the NCAA have a right/obligation to put pressure on states that have laws/traditions that are opposite what might be seen as the values that the NCAA chooses to make an issue of? Or are they completely overstepping?
It seems like they have decided to pick out these issues because they can target one or two states. For instance, why not target anti-abortion or anti-same sex marriage states? Isn't it a little disingenuous to make a stand when it is convenient but to have nothing to say when it would be hard?

why not target states that have sanctuary cities? They are breaking the law. Charlotte was also one of those until the state made illegal .

 

[pisgah101]

I thought it was an odd term to apply to transgenders, so I asked a basic question with plenty of room for pisgah to reply without defensiveness. And hey! What do you know: that's exactly what pisgah did while you instead leapt to an incorrect, ugly, antagonizing conclusion. You don't appear to have taken a thing dukehokie said to heart. If this gets locked, it will have nothing to do with any failing on my part to carry on a respectful, thoughtful dialogue.

I'm Glad you quoted me cuz that made me sound worse then before.

 

[gottagonow]

I agree that its time to move away this and lets play some peach basket ball.

 

[Dattier]

why not target states that have sanctuary cities? They are breaking the law. Charlotte was also one of those until the state made illegal .

The NCAA's interest in HB2 has to do with member institutions' concerns about how some of their fans will be treated here, as well as possible Title IX violations. They didn't get involved with the fight for marriage equality b/c that didn't really tie in with their purposes in any way, and neither does the issue of sanctuary cities.

If you're chalking up the entire reason for their involvement to random partisan politics, I can understand why you'd wonder about any other issue substituted in for it, but the answer is clear when you realize it is not strictly political.

As for sanctuary cities... If you really see something inconsistent in caring about LGBTQ issues but not sanctuary cities, surely you would recognize that reversing which one you do and don't care with would also be inconsistent, right? I'm inclined to believe those "inconsistencies" are actually natural, complicated aspects related to being human.

 

[gottagonow]

You don't want to read what I say and give it an honest evaluation? Fine. I guess this the end of our conversation. Back to enjoying Duke basketball.

D-Denver I did read it and thought I gave it an honest evaluation, anyway and like you said, back to enjoying basketball because we should have much to enjoy this season.

 

[dukerulz]

D-Denver I did read it and thought I gave it an honest evaluation, anyway and like you said, back to enjoying basketball because we should have much to enjoy this season.

This one is a little tough for me. Although I am not for discriminating against anyone, and I do mean anyone, I do somewhat understand the concern of some males taking advantage of the law if it is overturned. With that being said, it is definitely valuable to know that there are essentially no incidents of this happening on record.

My question is, was it against the law before HB2 for a man to just go and post up in a women's bathroom? Not peeping or anything like that. Just posting up in the bathroom. Would that have been trespassing or would some other type of law have been broken? I will claim ignorance on this because I honestly don't know. I am asking because I just don't know how that would be handled if a man is just posting up in the woman's bathroom creeping people out. If it is not against the law, how would that be handled? That is my only hesitation.

I sincerely don't want to offend anyone with my post but I can no longer remain silent concerning this. I believe that LGBT community was frequenting whichever restroom they preferred prior to the push for some type of legalization. Now I think it is more about winning the fight than any discrimination they feel subjected to. It seems to me that a sex change accompanied by a revised gender birth certificate would satisfy most everyone on this subject. My father and father-in-law are both deceased and were WWII/Korean War vets. I wish I could bring them back for just one of today's newscasts concerning this HB2 issue. I'm sure they would both turn to me with amazement and just say, "the hell you say... we don't know which restroom we belong in now!" I truly wish the media, sporting enterprises, and various organizations that can inflict monetary damage upon NC would stop trying to further their agendas by using blackmail tactics and holding the state hostage.

 

[Dahntay#1]

I sincerely don't want to offend anyone with my post but I can no longer remain silent concerning this. I believe that LGBT community was frequenting whichever restroom they preferred prior to the push for some type of legalization. Now I think it is more about winning the fight than any discrimination they feel subjected to. It seems to me that a sex change accompanied by a revised gender birth certificate would satisfy most everyone on this subject. My father and father-in-law are both deceased and were WWII/Korean War vets. I wish I could bring them back for just one of today's newscasts concerning this HB2 issue. I'm sure they would both turn to me with amazement and just say, "the hell you say... we don't know which restroom we belong in now!" I truly wish the media, sporting enterprises, and various organizations that can inflict monetary damage upon NC would stop trying to further their agendas by using blackmail tactics and holding the state hostage.

And I am sure they would also say "the hell you say...we are electing black people and women as presidents now?"

Times change.

 

[Dattier]

...I think it is more about winning the fight than any discrimination they feel subjected to. It seems to me that a sex change accompanied by a revised gender birth certificate would satisfy most everyone on this subject.

Gender reassignment surgery costs upwards of $20k. I don't think putting that out there like it's some sort of compromise that would satisfy most everyone is even the slightest bit reasonable.

If it's about winning, what, exactly is the prize if not protection from discrimination?

 

[Dattier]

I sincerely don't want to offend anyone...
I truly wish the media, sporting enterprises, and various organizations... would stop trying to further their agendas by using blackmail tactics and holding the state hostage.

It's kind of hard to believe not offending anyone is anywhere on your list with these kind of assumptions about others' motives.

 

[dukerulz]

It's kind of hard to believe not offending anyone is anywhere on your list with these kind of assumptions about others' motives.

Look 20K is nothing these days for something as important as gender reassignment and I bet if they are a bit short the federal government will figure out how to bill the taxpayer for it. Lots of businesses and public places have family restrooms that can accommodate everyone so why force your way into places that make others uncomfortable. If anyone should be uncomfortable in this situation it should be the person who doesn't fit the equation. Why should countless people who are I in the correct gender assigned restroom accomodate the few that aren't. There are restrooms that will take care of their true gender like everyone else. There are1-2 options depending on the facilities without entering an opposite gender latrine. How is that discriminatory? Why should they be allowed to access all three? Do you think a "transgender" person would be disallowed or removed from a restroom that matches their plumbing? I think not. We have 20 tril debt, 2% growth, and homegrown terrorism and this is dominating the news. I don't think my opinion is discriminatory and I've said all I intend to say. I didn't intend to fire anyone up with this but I'm not drinking the kool-aid on this one. There is no limit to the insanity of political correctness these days.

 

[dukerulz]

And I am sure they would also say "the hell you say...we are electing black people and women as presidents now?"

Times change.

Not always for the better. No problem with black presidents here but I do believe in biblical order for family, church, etc.. So I bet you would call me a male chauvinist now. That's OK... I'm entitled to my opinion even though people like you, the NCAA, NBA, and others continue to try to silence, intimidate, or minimize me. NC legislators drafted the HB2 so it represents the present wishes of them and/or their constituents. If the people of NC are unhappy with that then vote them out and vote for someone that supports your views.

 

[DukeDenver]

Not always for the better. No problem with black presidents here but I do believe in biblical order for family, church, etc.. So I bet you would call me a male chauvinist now. That's OK... I'm entitled to my opinion even though people like you, the NCAA, NBA, and others continue to try to silence, intimidate, or minimize me. NC legislators drafted the HB2 so it represents the present wishes of them and/or their constituents. If the people of NC are unhappy with that then vote them out and vote for someone that supports your views.

No one is infringing on your "biblical order" by allowing folks to use the bathroom they wish to. It was illegal to peep before, and it still is now. Public spaces need protecting, but the bible has no say so in the law of the land. There's something about that in the Constitution. Not that it matters, but I am a church going man btw.

 

[dukiejay]

We may have just found hymera!

(Old board poster reference...seeing if anyone picks up on it.)

 

[dukerulz]

No one is infringing on your "biblical order" by allowing folks to use the bathroom they wish to. It was illegal to peep before, and it still is now. Public spaces need protecting, but the bible has no say so in the law of the land. There's something about that in the Constitution. Not that it matters, but I am a church going man btw.

First of all its not my order but God's and I most of the laws in this country are based on the Bible. You want public places protected from folks like me that expect people to use restrooms that match their equipment? I'm surprised that you feel that way because that is the secular company line. I believe the freedoms that the Constitutiion provide... I just don't see where I am infringing on a guy's rights if I don't want him in the restroom with my wife and granddaughter. I think the guy is better off dealing with his own issue in the men's restroom. He can go into a stall and be assured that no one will bother him.