Not Playing in Bowl Games

[TU_BLA]

Now that we don't have to worry about NFL eligible seniors and whether or not they participate in the bowl game...let's debate. The kids declaring for the NFL draft and simultaneously declaring they are ego-driven selfish d*cks who won't play in their team's bowl game...what does everyone think about this?

My comment is contained within the initial question

 

[Gmoney4WW]

You don't think wanting to avoid an injury that could adversely affect their professional career is a valid point?

 

[lawpoke87]

I don't like it but if you're a top 2 or 3 round draft pick I completely understand the thinking unless the team is playing for a national championship.

 

[TU_BLA]

You don't think wanting to avoid an injury that could adversely affect their professional career is a valid point?

It would be interesting to see how many of the "team first" teams, ala New England, Pittsburgh put these kids a little lower on their draft board, especially if they aren't sure fire 1st rounders, because their attitude and approach certainly isn't "team first".

I said it last year with McCaffrey and the others who did it...it's a crap move and totally disses the teammates who helped put you in that position.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Some top round draft picks are worried that a worst case scenario could inhibit there ability to earn or end their ability to earn in case of a career ending injury. They have worked most of their lives to get to this point. If they don't want to take that risk, no matter how small it might be, it is their right to do so.

Saying they can't or shouldn't is similar to telling a pro player he can't retire early because he doesn't want to take the risk of getting worse CTE problems later in life. Their averseness to risk is their right to have in greater or lesser degree.

 

[lawpoke87]

Pretty good article discussing both sides of the issue

https://www.si.com/college-football...y-leonard-fournette-skip-bowl-games-nfl-draft

 

[ctt8410]

It would be interesting to see how many of the "team first" teams, ala New England, Pittsburgh put these kids a little lower on their draft board, especially if they aren't sure fire 1st rounders, because their attitude and approach certainly isn't "team first".

You really think the organization that employed Aaron Hernandez cares if a dude skips the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl?

 

[lawpoke87]

Two running backs skipped their bowl games last season. They were the top 2 backs taken in the 2017 NFL draft fwiw.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox_rivals]

Didn't Courtney Tennial leave the team before the GMAC Bowl after his Senior season?

 

[TU_BLA]

You really think the organization that employed Aaron Hernandez cares if a dude skips the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl?

It took the Patriots about 30 minutes between the time Hernandez was arrested and the time they put him on waivers. And yes the Patriots, IMO, would care if a player skips out on his bowl game. They would certainly use it to their advantage in contract negotiations for signing bonuses and guarantees (since salaries are not slotted by draft position).

 

[TU_BLA]

And this year, we've already seen 4 Texas Longhorns all declare early and state they are sitting out. Only 1 is likely to be a 1st round pick (LT Williams)...the others 2nd or 3rd day guys.

 

[old.guy]

My memory is that Tennial had graduated and gone to work and his employer would not give him time off to play in the game.

 

[TulsaRising1]

I think coaches and players are overpaid in general, I mean, Frank Haith is making over a million for putting out a crappy product for basketball. Just my opinion though

 

[cmullinsTU]

I do not care s bit if they skip the bowl game. Bowl games are literally the most meaningless game in college football. Over half the teams go to one and they mean nothing.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I do not care s bit if they skip the bowl game. Bowl games are literally the most meaningless game in college football. Over half the teams go to one and they mean nothing.

Except to coaches and ADs who make bonuses off the meaningless game.

 

[URedskin54]

Outside looking in I can’t say I blame someone for putting their career, which has a very tiny window of earnings potential, first. But if I were a teammate who spent the last 4 years destroying my body so this player could get his yards and will have knee and back problems for the rest of my life, I might be upset

 

[drboobay]

Outside looking in I can’t say I blame someone for putting their career, which has a very tiny window of earnings potential, first. But if I were a teammate who spent the last 4 years destroying my body so this player could get his yards and will have knee and back problems for the rest of my life, I might be upset

Maybe. But if you had great relationships with your teammates they might have your back on this sort of decision.

 

[I.I.]

The main problem with no bowl game is no extra practice. This gives better teams even more advantage. They should give non bowl teams even extra practice to help level the playing field,

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Doesn't bother me at all. They've spent sometimes 5-6 years giving their all as an amateur athlete--do what you feel is best for your professional career.

 

[JesseTU]

It annoys me. I understand the decision, agree that it is rational, admit that I might make the same choice, and can't really begrudge a player nearly as much as the following implies, but since everyone else is OK with it I feel someone needs to post a strong opposition.

As a fan I have supported you for 6 years as an amateur athlete. The school has invested perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop you as an athlete and support you while in school (which I in turn support). If you have an opportunity in the NFL draft, there is a great chance that part of the reason is because the school and coaches invested in your development. Skipping the final bowl game means you did everything you "had" to in order to "get yours," but at that point you're done.

And all that stuff about your team or your teammates can just be laughed off. Most of your teammates will not get a chance to play in the NFL. This is the peek of their football career, maybe their lives. As long as you needed them to try to look good and get into the NFL, it was all about the team. But now you've made it, who cares about them?

And bowl games are no more meaningless than any other game for a non-champion. If games without implication are meaningless, our players should have sat out every game after it became impossible to win the conference championship (because getting bowl eligible is also meaningless). October 2 was our second conference loss, after 3 we were definately eliminated from Conference contention. There was no point in playing our last 5 or 6 games. Or maybe it doesn't it matter if our players get hurt because they are not future NFL stars?

The team is playing to win. Playing to get better. Playing for the school and the conference to gain reputation (or recruits). And, if we are honest, playing for finances and to entertain fans. All that is the reason the team plays any game.

Then again... the system is stupid. If a kid directly out of high school doesn't want to go to college and go directly to the NFL, so be it. If a player wants to leave after year 1, 2 or 3...fine. If Texas, Alabama, USC, and THE Ohio State want to be d-league NFL teams that pay their players whatever they want and have an "affiliation agreement" with a University, that's fine too. I'm not against people making money, but that shouldn't be the point of college athletics. So while I understand the reasoning behind leaving early to get paid, and while I admit I might make the same choice if in that position, it is ultimately a selfish decision after years of being part of a community and a team.

Again... I don't really fault a guy near all that much for making the decision. It is a rational decision from his perspective. But as a college football fan...

 

[TU_BLA]

It annoys me. I understand the decision, agree that it is rational, admit that I might make the same choice, and can't really begrudge a player nearly as much as the following implies, but since everyone else is OK with it I feel someone needs to post a strong opposition.

As a fan I have supported you for 6 years as an amateur athlete. The school has invested perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop you as an athlete and support you while in school (which I in turn support). If you have an opportunity in the NFL draft, there is a great chance that part of the reason is because the school and coaches invested in your development. Skipping the final bowl game means you did everything you "had" to in order to "get yours," but at that point you're done.

And all that stuff about your team or your teammates can just be laughed off. Most of your teammates will not get a chance to play in the NFL. This is the peek of their football career, maybe their lives. As long as you needed them to try to look good and get into the NFL, it was all about the team. But now you've made it, who cares about them?

And bowl games are no more meaningless than any other game for a non-champion. If games without implication are meaningless, our players should have sat out every game after it became impossible to win the conference championship (because getting bowl eligible is also meaningless). October 2 was our second conference loss, after losing to Houston we were eliminated from Conference contention. There was no point in playing our last 5 or 6 games. Or maybe it doesn't it matter if our players get hurt because they are not future NFL stars?

The team is playing to win. Playing to get better. Playing for the school and the conference to gain reputation (or recruits). And, if we are honest, playing for finances and to entertain fans. All that is the reason the team plays any game.

Then again... the system is stupid. If a kid directly out of high school doesn't want to go to college and go directly to the NFL, so be it. If a player wants to leave after year 1, 2 or 3...fine. If Texas, Alabama, USC, and THE Ohio State want to be d-league NFL teams that pay their players whatever they want and have an "affiliation agreement" with a University, that's fine too. I'm not against people making money, but that shouldn't be the point of college athletics. So while I understand the reasoning behind leaving early to get paid, and while I admit I might make the same choice if in that position, it is ultimately a selfish decision after years of being part of a community and a team.

Again... I don't really fault a guy near all that much for making the decision. It is a rational decision from his perspective. But as a college football fan...

Except we beat Houston.

Your point is taken though. I agree. And maybe this is why the whole bowl system needs to be rethought. Make the games meaningful...expand the playoff in an NCAA basketball sort of way (no, not 64 teams). No NCAA basketball player, even if they know they are going to be the #1 Overall pick in the NBA draft would ever imagine sitting out of their conference tournament or NCAA tournament to protect his draft stock.

 

[noble cane]

I guess if you skip the bowl game, I can skip giving you your diploma and bill you for tuition.

BTW.. I’d love to see Baker Mayfield skip the post season.

 

[TU_BLA]

I guess if you skip the bowl game, I can skip giving you your diploma and bill you for tuition.

90% of the kids skipping bowl games are leaving early and not getting a degree anyway.

As for the tuition, I wonder if there is a way to insert a clause into the Letter of Intent that says that the tuition, room & board, and all other associated charges with the cost of attendance will be paid in full by the university provided the student athlete plays in all games he/she is eligible for unless mutually agreed upon by the individual and head coach. Failure to do so will result in full charges being reinstated retroactively to one's student account with accrued interest from the date of enrollment. That $50k bonus from the agent they just signed with won't be worth the car they want to buy if they need to pay a tuition bill for a semester first. Instead of the BMW they're stuck with a Chevy.

 

[HuffyCane]

That would be a contract for employment. And they are not employed.

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

90% of the kids skipping bowl games are leaving early and not getting a degree anyway.

As for the tuition, I wonder if there is a way to insert a clause into the Letter of Intent that says that the tuition, room & board, and all other associated charges with the cost of attendance will be paid in full by the university provided the student athlete plays in all games he/she is eligible for unless mutually agreed upon by the individual and head coach. Failure to do so will result in full charges being reinstated retroactively to one's student account with accrued interest from the date of enrollment. That $50k bonus from the agent they just signed with won't be worth the car they want to buy if they need to pay a tuition bill for a semester first. Instead of the BMW they're stuck with a Chevy.

No

 

[TU_BLA]

That would be a contract for employment. And they are not employed.

The LOI would likely constitute a contract if anyone really challenged its terms in court anyway. I've had a lawyer tell me that most documents of agreement that lay out terms for two sides and signed would likely pass muster as constituting an agreement if someone really wanted to push the issue.

 

[noble cane]

That would be a contract for employment. And they are not employed.

True.

It’s all basically crack baby basketball at this point.

 

[lawpoke87]

Very few of those players who are going to be drafted or even think they are going to be drafted finish out the spring semester in school regardless if they play in the bowl game. Almost all are training for the combine or individual workouts.

 

[JesseTU]

Except we beat Houston.

Man, I was at that game (well, and everyone except Temple). It was the best part of the football year, maybe the only good party really. I thought we had turned a corner and I put those dang blue and gold glasses back on. Now I'm so negative on the team that I forgot that highlight. That's horrid.

I mean, what? I re-read my [edited] post and don't see what your're talking about.

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

People decide to leave school early all the time. Does the full ride academic scholar owe the university if they leave early to join a startup? Does a 5th year eligible player who decides not to play their 5th year owe something? No way. Future employment opportunities is one of the main functions of college.

 

[JesseTU]

Refusing to play in a bowl game is probably "voluntarily withdrawing from the team," which seems to mean you can lose your scholarship. But it isn't retroactive. And if they are leaving for the draft, why would they care?

https://ctsportslaw.com/2011/10/06/when-can-a-school-take-away-your-scholarship/

 

[TU_BLA]

Man, I was at that game (well, and everyone except Temple). It was the best part of the football year, maybe the only good party really. I thought we had turned a corner and I put those dang blue and gold glasses back on. Now I'm so negative on the team that I forgot that highlight. That's horrid.

I mean, what? I re-read my [edited] post and don't see what your're talking about.

It originally said, "October 2 was our 2nd conference loss and after losing to Houston we were eliminated from conference contention". Believe you changed the "after losing to Houston " part to "after losing 3 we were definately eliminated from conference contention".

No biggie...I know the point you were trying to make...but you were taking away the high point of the season...the part where we get to hold the game over Coog High at least until next season.

 

[TU_BLA]

People decide to leave school early all the time. Does the full ride academic scholar owe the university if they leave early to join a startup? Does a 5th year eligible player who decides not to play their 5th year owe something? No way. Future employment opportunities is one of the main functions of college.

If a 5th year eligible player decides not to play because they have already earned their degree, all the power to them. IMO, that is what their goal should be. If a player is able to graduate in 3 years and moves on, same thing.

 

[noble cane]

It originally said, "October 2 was our 2nd conference loss and after losing to Houston we were eliminated from conference contention". Believe you changed the "after losing to Houston " part to "after losing 3 we were definately eliminated from conference contention".

No biggie...I know the point you were trying to make...but you were taking away the high point of the season...the part where we get to hold the game over Coog High at least until next season.

Interesting... what if players refused to play once the season was no longer meaningful?

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

If a 5th year eligible player decides not to play because they have already earned their degree, all the power to them. IMO, that is what their goal should be. If a player is able to graduate in 3 years and moves on, same thing.

They owe u nothing man. Players leave the team every year regardless of degree. I know it’s frustrating, but again, one of the main functions of college is future employment. If a student or athlete feels they are in a position to move on and pursue future employment then that is their decision entirely, not yours.

 

[TU_BLA]

They owe u nothing man. Players leave the team every year regardless of degree. I know it’s frustrating, but again, one of the main functions of college is future employment. If a student or athlete feels they are in a position to move on and pursue future employment then that is their decision entirely, not yours.

Then should the university be required or feel obligated to pay for their pro days or provide facilities for that purpose?

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

They don’t pay for pro days. Provide facilities, yes. And the guys skipping bowl games are going to the combine.

What you want apparently is indentured servitude. That’s not what a college athlete is. They still have the right to choose what is best for them and their family. Get over it

If I played with Christian McCaffery and he chose not to play a bowl game I’d totally understand. And if you battled next to those guys you would too.

 

[noble cane]

They don’t pay for pro days. Provide facilities, yes. And the guys skipping bowl games are going to the combine.

What you want apparently is indentured servitude. That’s not what a college athlete is. They still have the right to choose what is best for them and their family. Get over it

If I played with Christian McCaffery and he chose not to play a bowl game I’d totally understand. And if you battled next to those guys you would too.

Interesting... so if you lost a bowl ring because your running back that you’ve ruined your knees blocking for said you weren’t worth playing with or for, you’d still invite him over for beers?

Bigger man than me.

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

Damn right. Part of it. And would have told my kids about it

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

Some play because they love it. Some play because it’s a means to an end. But it’s different to each person. Either way, do your job while you are on the field and I respect the hell out of you. If you play like a coward I have no respect. McCaffery and Fournette were the opposite of cowards while they took snaps so if I were a teammate of theirs I would hold nothing against them as they moved on. Period.