OT: Law School Applications Surge

[Panthergrowl13]

Why are more students now wanting to go to Law School.

Nationwide, Law School applications have surged more than 23% this year compared to the 2024 application cycle.

With 1500 applications thus far Pitt has seen a 56% upswing in Law School applications compared to last year. Those applicants are vying for 140 seats.

Duquesne University (Pittsburgh) has reported a 43% increase in its Law School applications, which stand at 1200 applications for 170 seats.

How is Rutgers doing with respect to this rather dramatic surge in applications and what is the logic behind this sudden increase.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[e5fdny]

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.

 

[MADHAT1]

found this with a quick google
>Rutgers Law School had about 4,300 applicants this cycle, a 25% increase over last year. It admits about 430 students for its full-time and part-time students at its Newark and Camden campuses, dean Matt Saleh tells Axios.

• He says people often go back to school during economic downturns to firm up their credentials for when the economy rebounds.<

here's the online brochure in case someone from the Pitt area wants to attend a law school that will help them succeed
> With locations in Newark and Camden, Rutgers Law School is positioned amid three of the nation’s largest legal markets—New York City, Philadelphia, and New Jersey—putting students in a prime position to gain critical hands-on legal experience. From internships to full-time employment after graduation, Rutgers Law School graduates join law firms and businesses of all sizes, government agencies, nonprofits, and judicial clerkships.<

https://www.rutgers.edu/academics/schools-and-colleges/law-school

 

[CollegeSenior]

Many more applications does not necessarily imply many more people applying. As with undergrad applications people apply to more schools today, which lowers acceptance rates, which leads people to apply to even more schools, which lowers acceptance rates further, etc.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

found this with a quick google
>Rutgers Law School had about 4,300 applicants this cycle, a 25% increase over last year. It admits about 430 students for its full-time and part-time students at its Newark and Camden campuses, dean Matt Saleh tells Axios.

• He says people often go back to school during economic downturns to firm up their credentials for when the economy rebounds.<

here's the online brochure in case someone from the Pitt area wants to attend a law school that will help them succeed
> With locations in Newark and Camden, Rutgers Law School is positioned amid three of the nation’s largest legal markets—New York City, Philadelphia, and New Jersey—putting students in a prime position to gain critical hands-on legal experience. From internships to full-time employment after graduation, Rutgers Law School graduates join law firms and businesses of all sizes, government agencies, nonprofits, and judicial clerkships.<

https://www.rutgers.edu/academics/schools-and-colleges/law-school

Good information.

Do you think this application surge will have any increase on Law School Rankings (ranking based on what: Reputation, Professors, LSAT Scores, GPA etc)

To compare I was looking at 2 Law Schools in the Philadelphia area, Temple (Public/ State Related) and Penn (Private/Ivy).

I believe there are about 200 Law Schools accredited by the ABA and Juris Education (March 27, 2025) ranked the Top 100.

Penn ranked #4 with LSAT: 172 and GPA: 3.93 while Temple ranked #54 with LSAT: 163 and GPA: 3.67.

Temple had a 38% increase in Law School applications (2900 apps for 220 seats).

In looking at the ranking list I was a little surprised to see a couple of Law Schools ranked relatively higher than I would have expected (Georgia State #75 and Florida International #68). They may be fine law schools and very deserving of the ranking.

US News (2023) had the average attorney salary in the US listed at $145,740 although salaries are very dependent upon (Law School, Practice Area, Law Firm Size and Location).

Some of the lower ranked Law Schools had average LSAT scores as low as 142. What was a little surprising was that of the Law School Class of 2021 who took the Bar within 2 years of graduation that 90.4 % Passed.

Well Pitt has a New Law School Dean and he is hoping to increase our Law School Ranking as I'm sure every Law School Dean is also attempting.

I guess Law School is a good option as long as our economy keeps going strong.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[dconifer0]

... what is the logic behind this sudden increase.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Great question (I was unaware of this trend).

My future daughter-in-law is in law school and I have thought about the job market she will become a part of. It seems there are already plenty of non-blue blood lawyers out there. Maybe I'm wrong about that...

 

[MADHAT1]

Great question (I was unaware of this trend).

My future daughter-in-law is in law school and I have thought about the job market she will become a part of. It seems there are already plenty of non-blue blood lawyers out there. Maybe I'm wrong about that...

Comparing salaries for law school, graduates the area the school is located must be considered
check where your future daughter in law is going to see what she can expect.
As for Pitt compared to RU, a quick google found this :
The University of Pittsburgh School of Law graduates working in private practice as law firm associates have a median starting salary of $70,000

The median salary in the private sector is $70,000, while the median salary in the public sector is $45,500

Pitt Law is tied for #95 in terms of the median starting salary among graduates working in private practice as law firm associates

The median starting salary for Rutgers Law School graduates working in private practice as law firm associates is $100,000, while the median starting salary for those in government jobs or judicial clerkships is $49,571

Rutgers Law School Ranking: Tied for #37 in median starting salary among graduates working in private practice.

Your D-I-L's school might be higher or could be less than RU or PU in starting salary for its grads according to the area the school is in and how the law school she attends is rated as a school.
Pitt's law school is rated ( around 91 ) which is a little better what RU is rated (103) and I would guess it's the NY Metro area that helps RU law school grads start off making $30,000 more in pay right after they graduate.

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median

 

[Knight Shift]

Good information.

Do you think this application surge will have any increase on Law School Rankings (ranking based on what: Reputation, Professors, LSAT Scores, GPA etc)

To compare I was looking at 2 Law Schools in the Philadelphia area, Temple (Public/ State Related) and Penn (Private/Ivy).

I believe there are about 200 Law Schools accredited by the ABA and Juris Education (March 27, 2025) ranked the Top 100.

Penn ranked #4 with LSAT: 172 and GPA: 3.93 while Temple ranked #54 with LSAT: 163 and GPA: 3.67.

Temple had a 38% increase in Law School applications (2900 apps for 220 seats).

In looking at the ranking list I was a little surprised to see a couple of Law Schools ranked relatively higher than I would have expected (Georgia State #75 and Florida International #68). They may be fine law schools and very deserving of the ranking.

US News (2023) had the average attorney salary in the US listed at $145,740 although salaries are very dependent upon (Law School, Practice Area, Law Firm Size and Location).

Some of the lower ranked Law Schools had average LSAT scores as low as 142. What was a little surprising was that of the Law School Class of 2021 who took the Bar within 2 years of graduation that 90.4 % Passed.

Well Pitt has a New Law School Dean and he is hoping to increase our Law School Ranking as I'm sure every Law School Dean is also attempting.

I guess Law School is a good option as long as our economy keeps going strong.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Comparing salaries for law school, graduates the area the school is located must be considered
check where your future daughter in law is going to see what she can expect.
As for Pitt compared to RU, a quick google found this :
The University of Pittsburgh School of Law graduates working in private practice as law firm associates have a median starting salary of $70,000

The median salary in the private sector is $70,000, while the median salary in the public sector is $45,500

Pitt Law is tied for #95 in terms of the median starting salary among graduates working in private practice as law firm associates

The median starting salary for Rutgers Law School graduates working in private practice as law firm associates is $100,000, while the median starting salary for those in government jobs or judicial clerkships is $49,571

Rutgers Law School Ranking: Tied for #37 in median starting salary among graduates working in private practice.

Your D-I-L's school might be higher or could be less than RU or PU in starting salary for its grads according to the area the school is in and how the law school she attends is rated as a school.
Pitt's law school is rated ( around 91 ) which is a little better what RU is rated (103) and I would guess it's the NY Metro area that helps RU law school grads start off making $30,000 more in pay right after they graduate.

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median

Medians are deceptive. Not sure if the mean (average) is much better.

The big bucks white shoe firms hire mostly from the top law schools and some of the top students (top 1% to maybe 5%) of the middling law schools (this includes Rutgers, Seton Hall, etc. ).

Next criterion is practice area. Attorneys in some practice areas make a lot more money than other practice areas. Intellectual property is a good example. A middling student from a middling law school can earn the same or more than some poor slob suffering as an associate at a big bucks white shoe firm. Generally, in my limited experience, those places are miserable sweatshops filled with some miserable people. As always, exceptions exist.

Get a few (3-6) years of experience in a mid-sized regional firm, and if you can put it together, open a small sized firm with like minded people you don't mind hanging out with for 8-10 hours per day, and you will never regret it. You will be much happier, and you may even make more money, which is the least important thing.

 

[e5fdny]

Medians are deceptive. Not sure if the mean (average) is much better.

The big bucks white shoe firms hire mostly from the top law schools and some of the top students (top 1% to maybe 5%) of the middling law schools (this includes Rutgers, Seton Hall, etc. ).

Next criterion is practice area. Attorneys in some practice areas make a lot more money than other practice areas. Intellectual property is a good example. A middling student from a middling law school can earn the same or more than some poor slob suffering as an associate at a big bucks white shoe firm. Generally, in my limited experience, those places are miserable sweatshops filled with some miserable people. As always, exceptions exist.

Get a few (3-6) years of experience in a mid-sized regional firm, and if you can put it together, open a small sized firm with like minded people you don't mind hanging out with for 8-10 hours per day, and you will never regret it. You will be much happier, and you may even make more money, which is the least important thing.

I personally know someone who has done this, and as @Knight Shift correctly says…that person really is a joy to be around. Honest.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Economic downturn is a great time to go to law school.

 

[e5fdny]

Economic downturn is a great time to go to law school.

How about for Finance?

Son considering it.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

H

How about for Finance?

Son considering it.

This is a great time to go for your MBA or undergrad Finance degree as well.

 

[iReC89]

There is a lot to be said for public sector law
at some point in a career, especially a parent with a primary caregiver role. Some are making a lot at big firms because they working the equivalent hours of two jobs. That’s not great for everyone.

I feel bad for a lot of grads with federal jobs lined up. A lot of those got frozen. It’s dumb. They work hard, help unclog the courts at low pay, and get trained to replace a retiring cohort.

 

[RUinPAC10land]

I don't know much about law school. I am in a different field but one thing I know is that law school grads have a higher tendency to put their kids into all star or club baseball teams. My son plays baseball for both club and all stars and 3 quarters of his teammates have parents that have graduated from law school.

 

[RU Cheese]

How about for Finance?

Son considering it.

If for a full time MBA, it really depends on where he'd go and what he wants to do.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

One final question for anyone who wants to take it.

Someone graduating with an engineering degree and considering going on to graduate school considering an MBA vs Law Degree (Patent Law). Pros and Cons.

I know the correct answer is to go into the field that you will enjoy. Is Patent Law a good area of practice or are you just too specialized.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[iReC89]

One final question for anyone who wants to take it.

Someone graduating with an engineering degree and considering going on to graduate school considering an MBA vs Law Degree (Patent Law). Pros and Cons.

I know the correct answer is to go into the field that you will enjoy. Is Patent Law a good area of practice or are you just too specialized.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

I have no sense of the volume of work that will come out of it, but it's an interesting time in the area of AI and copyrights/patents. Companies can achieve enormous productivity in certain areas with AI, but the raw output of AI is generally not protected. I had a chance to sit in on a law conference this year on this topic. An engineering trained mind may be helpful here.

 

[Knight Shift]

One final question for anyone who wants to take it.

Someone graduating with an engineering degree and considering going on to graduate school considering an MBA vs Law Degree (Patent Law). Pros and Cons.

I know the correct answer is to go into the field that you will enjoy. Is Patent Law a good area of practice or are you just too specialized.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

There is no correct answer. It depends on the person. I did the same debate many years ago, went law direction and happy with the decision.

If you like business aspects of technology, do the MBA. Lots of different options exist. Working for a tech company, working on Wall St as an analyst, working in private equity firm, venture capital firm, etc.

If you like technology more and learning new technology, patent law may be a good fit. If you want to eventually work for yourself, this is a great choice. Within patent law, one can go into the litigation side, licensing, or patent preparation and prosecution. One can mix the licensing part with litigation or prep/pros, but it is hard to do licensing exclusively, unless you work for a tech transfer department of a corporation or university. Litigation can be exhausting and difficult to balance work/family life, but it can be done. It's easier to do with patent prep/pros, but some get bored with prep/pros and going back and for with patent examiners at the USPTO. If you have half of a personality (many patent attorneys do not), you can do well for yourself in developing a book of business and writing your own ticket.

Never let money and surveys on salaries drive your decision. In any of the above routes, if you love your work, you will make more than enough money to survive and retire when you want to.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

How about for Finance?

Son considering it.

God forbid an 08 level meltdown, nothing is exempt.

Nearly everyone I know who graduated a few years before or after had at least one layoff, including people with sterling credentials like top 5 students at RBS. It was so awful and I'd never wish it on anyone. And then, like with law school, if it's not done when you graduate, it's terrible.

I will never forget the faces of girls in a meeting we had in law school as people graduated into that...I have never seen so much crying outside of a wake or funeral.

 

[RU848789]

One final question for anyone who wants to take it.

Someone graduating with an engineering degree and considering going on to graduate school considering an MBA vs Law Degree (Patent Law). Pros and Cons.

I know the correct answer is to go into the field that you will enjoy. Is Patent Law a good area of practice or are you just too specialized.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Yes, go into the field you think you'll enjoy is the best answer. In my career managing groups of 20-30 engineers at Merck, I had way more young engineers get their MBAs than their law degrees and part of that might be that it's a lot easier to get an MBA part-time, while still working vs. a law degree, which is usually full-time - this meant I wrote a ton of recommendation letters, lol. I also observed a much greater % of those who got MBAs actually staying at Merck and using that MBA to help them advance in the org, whereas the few folks I had who went the law degree path typically left Merck and ended up practicing law, never to come back (except one person who left for law school, got the law degree, became a patent lawyer and then showed up back at Merck about 10 years later).

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Comparing salaries for law school, graduates the area the school is located must be considered
check where your future daughter in law is going to see what she can expect.
As for Pitt compared to RU, a quick google found this :
The University of Pittsburgh School of Law graduates working in private practice as law firm associates have a median starting salary of $70,000

The median salary in the private sector is $70,000, while the median salary in the public sector is $45,500

Pitt Law is tied for #95 in terms of the median starting salary among graduates working in private practice as law firm associates

The median starting salary for Rutgers Law School graduates working in private practice as law firm associates is $100,000, while the median starting salary for those in government jobs or judicial clerkships is $49,571

Rutgers Law School Ranking: Tied for #37 in median starting salary among graduates working in private practice.

Your D-I-L's school might be higher or could be less than RU or PU in starting salary for its grads according to the area the school is in and how the law school she attends is rated as a school.
Pitt's law school is rated ( around 91 ) which is a little better what RU is rated (103) and I would guess it's the NY Metro area that helps RU law school grads start off making $30,000 more in pay right after they graduate.

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median

In the new US News "Best Graduate Schools" 2025" Ranking, Pitt Law moved up to #79 and Duquesne Law moved up to #92.

Actually, surprised that they moved up 12 places. I never looked into what criteria is used to rank the different law schools.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Retired711]

. I also observed a much greater % of those who got MBAs actually staying at Merck and using that MBA to help them advance in the org, whereas the few folks I had who went the law degree path typically left Merck and ended up practicing law, never to come back (except one person who left for law school, got the law degree, became a patent lawyer and then showed up back at Merck about 10 years later).

This is one reason why there are fewer part-time law students than there used to be. A lot of part-time law students were being subsidized by their employers. Then the employers figured out that someone going to law school was unlikely to stay with them.

 

[Retired711]

A bad economy usually leads to a rise in law school applications. In addition, the job market for new lawyers is good right now. But that's not expected to last.https://www.reuters.com/legal/litig...aw-grads-warns-job-tracking-group-2024-07-29/

Anyone should give a lot of thought before applying to law school. Law school, especially the first year, is an ordeal and job satisfaction among young lawyers is not especially high.