OT: Cliff Omoruyi today

[Caliknight]

Both of these things are true. Rutgers fans have short arms compared to other big time schools and Cliff is overpaid. The reason he is at Alabama is because no one else would pay him that.

 

[RUDivision]

What? None of that is accurate.

Unfortunately all accurate!

 

[red sail]

Did you contribute towards "retaining" players? Cliff got more than all the transfers that RU brought in.

As a matter of fact I did. I donate $25k per year. What do you donate?

 

[seansherm]

Cliff isn't worth $1.2MM

None of them are worth anywhere near what they are being given

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

We did not get that information from this site or the other site. Here we get no real information on NIL just rumor and speculation but no real information besides we don’t have the money. Some said that we had the money to match and Pike players hard ball. That info was given hear and many used it as the only proof that we were flush with cash. 2 real journalists in two articles tell us that we had little to no money for NIL. If we are going to believe anything that what should be believed.

No what was said was that Ewin had basically committed and then his people came back asking for more NIL and Pike did not react well to the request and decided to move on from him. We don't know how much more they asked for or how they made the request for Pike to quickly say get lost.

That same person also said RU spent under $1m for all the transfers. So no idea where you're getting the "flush with cash" story.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

As a matter of fact I did. I donate $25k per year. What do you donate?

That's great & I had to ask because a number of posters lately have been shooting their mouths off and clearly have provided nothing towards NIL. I've been contributing to RU's NIL since the inception even though RU isn't the school I attended. Just tried of the freeloaders not walking the walk while complaining about the teams nonstop.

 

[365Poster24Seven]

No what was said was that Ewin had basically committed and then his people came back asking for more NIL and Pike did not react well to the request and decided to move on from him. We don't know how much more they asked for or how they made the request for Pike to quickly say get lost.

That same person also said RU spent under $1m for all the transfers. So no idea where you're getting the "flush with cash" story.

Must have not explained myself well again lol. People here and the other site say we were flush with cash. I knew we had no money when we got the transfers we did.

 

[seansherm]

We did not get that information from this site or the other site. Here we get no real information on NIL just rumor and speculation but no real information besides we don’t have the money. Some said that we had the money to match and Pike players hard ball. That info was given hear and many used it as the only proof that we were flush with cash. 2 real journalists in two articles tell us that we had little to no money for NIL. If we are going to believe anything that what should be believed.

I've learned here (by here, I mean The Knight Report boards, paid or free) Pike spoke at a court club meeting, Pike was at top golf, and that he went to Geo and Eric's whiskey tasting. I didn't see Ewin mentioned in the article or discussion on whether we could match. Honestly, the reporting saying the top 10% of teams had $3M and that RU had $1.5 makes it sound OK. I almost always expect RU to be far behind the top 10, at half seems OK'ish.

 

[IMARUFAN]

Other than Eugene Omoruyi transferring to Oregon back in 2019, I'm not sure Pike has lost any player that he wanted to keep AND could afford to keep. He simply couldn't afford Cliff or Cam.

 

[Caliknight]

Ok! Cam asked to come back Pike thought Gavin was the answer! Paul Jaersey’s PG left because he lost his PG job.

I don’t think we tried to keep last years roster but probably could have used 1 or 2 for continuity.

Pikes program is dead ! Can he rebuild?

Program is hardly dead. There is talent to try and retain and a top 30 recruiting class coming in with the portal just starting.

 

[Caliknight]

None of them are worth anywhere near what they are being given

True, but even in this fantasy world we live in Cliff isn't worth the $1.2MM

Alabama had some FU money to play with and they did. But the aren't getting that value.

As teams employ GM's who will use real data and production to determine worth, these types of contracts will be hard to obtain. Cliff got very lucky if we are all being honest.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Did Cliff attempt any 3 pointers today ?

How many 3s did he shoot this year at Bama?

 

[seansherm]

True, but even in this fantasy world we live in Cliff isn't worth the $1.2MM

Alabama had some FU money to play with and they did. But the aren't getting that value.

As teams employ GM's who will use real data and production to determine worth, these types of contracts will be hard to obtain. Cliff got very lucky if we are all being honest.

I guess we'll see. They win the title, they won't be complaining. Lose before and maybe they are. There are many other teams that could have used him more than Bama, but he's fit well there.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

True, but even in this fantasy world we live in Cliff isn't worth the $1.2MM

Alabama had some FU money to play with and they did. But the aren't getting that value.

As teams employ GM's who will use real data and production to determine worth, these types of contracts will be hard to obtain. Cliff got very lucky if we are all being honest.

Even so, 17 pts, 4 boards, 2 blocks and 3 steals in 20 minutes is a pretty good performance.

 

[Caliknight]

Even so, 17 pts, 4 boards, 2 blocks and 3 steals in 20 minutes is a pretty good performance.

He's playing well today but he's had numerous games where he was little to a non factor. Certainly not $1.2MM worth of play. They make the FF and he plays well, sure. But that is no gimme with what we've seen to date from him. Solid player who would have definitely helped our D. But the program wasn't giving him $1.2MM and outside of Bama, no one else was either.

 

[LeapinLou]

Congrats to Cliff for advancing to the 2nd round.

 

[RUsojo]

Good player

 

[newell138]

Remember this is Robert Morris but still good game by Cliff...

8-8 and 17 points

 

[Plum Street]

Cliff isn't worth $1.2MM

Worth is determined by the market.

 

[BillyC80]

Been watching the second half. Cliff looks like crap on the boards. RM out rebounding Bama

Cliff often whiffs on his shot-blocking attempts and is then out of position for defensive rebounds. That led to several offensive rebounds and second chance points for RMU.

 

[Pdabs]

Worth is determined by the market.

Sure, market value is what someone is willing to pay, but that doesn’t mean the player justified the price. Just because a team overpays doesn’t mean the player actually delivered performance worth that million.

 

[essexknight]

It would be interesting to see where RU would be this year if they retained Cliff and Mag. They would have fixed a lot of problems on D.

 

[Plum Street]

Sure, market value is what someone is willing to pay, but that doesn’t mean the player justified the price. Just because a team overpays doesn’t mean the player actually delivered performance worth that million.

I am sure Alabama fans today don’t care that they may have overpaid

 

[Pdabs]

Cliff often whiffs on his shot-blocking attempts and is then out of position for defensive rebounds. That led to several offensive rebounds and second chance points for RMU.

That’s why he was taken out and sat rest of the game

 

[Plum Street]

It would be interesting to see where RU would be this year if they retained Cliff and Mag. They would have fixed a lot of problems on D.

Probably be playing in a game yesterday or today

 

[Pdabs]

I am sure Alabama fans today don’t care that they may have overpaid

Nobody was talking about bama fans today , someone here said he’s not worth 1.2m.

 

[Plum Street]

Nobody was talking about bama fans today , someone here said he’s not worth 1.2m.

 

[Mholinko]

Exactly. Retention will take money.
not sure why people think retention of good players will be cheaper than getting similar talent as transfers.

Which means, the repeated plan "focus on retention" is useless.

Focus on optimizing 1 good year players (from within or outside the program).

nobody who is screaming that people are wrong that NIL matters and its not realistic for us understand this point

the same people saying look at Drake look at McNeese won't consider that NONE of those guys will likely return to those schools next year

if you want to be a feeder school for other bigger programs then sticking to development and hoping for the best is fine

but don't get butthurt when your all conference sophomore and junior decides they are off to greener pastures after they blow up

 

[VegasPJ1]

Bama wins. cliff goes 8/8, 1/2 - 17 pts, 4 def rebs, 3 steals, 2 blocks & 1 TO and some of you geniuses still can’t give credit we’re credit is due. Amazing! Oh, & he’s playing in the NCAAs which is a rarity for RU.

 

[lion1983]

I've learned here (by here, I mean The Knight Report boards, paid or free) Pike spoke at a court club meeting, Pike was at top golf, and that he went to Geo and Eric's whiskey tasting. I didn't see Ewin mentioned in the article or discussion on whether we could match. Honestly, the reporting saying the top 10% of teams had $3M and that RU had $1.5 makes it sound OK. I almost always expect RU to be far behind the top 10, at half seems OK'ish.

I thought I saw a link to a site that listed the Big 10 teams TOTAL available NIL - and RU was in the bottom 3 in the Big 10 at about $3 million TOTAL - much of which was used for football, for retention and selected add-ons. I am not sure hoops had even $1.5 million, though maybe.

There was absolutely NO budget for Omoruyi. Period!

Any mismanagement was on roster construction, even with the little NIL they had.

Acuff SHOULD have been better than he was this past year (not a star, but a Andre Hyatt-like offensive spark off the bench. I am not sure we will ever know how much his foot injury set him back - it certainly significantly hurt him in the 1st 1/3 of the season - and may have had a lingering effect throughout the season. I can tell you that he showed flashes of offense, JUST like Hyatt did. But he was ridiculously ineffective on defense.

Martini was a HUGE miss, despite being better down the stretch. His inability to defend well, to rebound and to make his open 3's was a HUGE problem for RU, especially through January, when they REALLY needed him. And he was almost certainly Pikiell's FIRST choice priority out of the portal (I believe Pikiell met with him the 1st couple of days on the portal and was quickly signed). And this was a huge problem - because though RU listed him at 6'8" and Princeton had listed him at 6'7", he was no taller than Derkack - and maybe shorter. Pikiell HAD to know Martini would have a real problem defending post players in the Big 10 - notwithstanding his ability to defend Omoruyi in one game.

Derkack ... I am not sure what to make of him and why he had the year he just had. I know he was a poor 3-point shooter at Merrimack. But he had just finished his Sophomore year, and even though the NEC is a very weak league, he WAS both the Player of the Year AND the Defensive Player of the Year in the NEC, as a sophomore. There were flags in his game for anyone who looked at his stats and watched clips. One flag in particular was that though he averaged 4 assists per game, he also averaged 4 turnovers per game, if I recall. He was marketed by the staff as a guard - and to me he was clearly NOT a guard,. but a pure WF, a "3", but without a 3-point shot. For me, he was bailey's back-up, and a path to recruit his younger brother, who is more higher regarded. What irks me about Derkack's season is that he NEVER showed any ability to adjust and advance his game - as an incoming Junior I would have thought growth and development would be possible. Specifically, he never stopped taking the ball to the rim on EVERY drive, even though he was remarkably ineffective getting the ball over the equally athletic and taller Big 10 players defending the rim. If Derkack is ONLY a drive-to-the basket player, with no 3-point range and NO mid-range game, he is at best a bit player, regardless of his energy and excellent athleticism. And that is on Pikiell and the staff.

Hayes was an after-thought - he was no where near even in the top 5-10 of the players RU wanted for that role ... he was basically a 1-trick pony, a designated 3-point shooter who was not nearly athletic enough to play any real defense ... who then could hit his open 3's for large portions of the season.

 

[Smols]

I thought I saw a link to a site that listed the Big 10 teams TOTAL available NIL - and RU was in the bottom 3 in the Big 10 at about $3 million TOTAL - much of which was used for football, for retention and selected add-ons. I am not sure hoops had even $1.5 million, though maybe.

There was absolutely NO budget for Omoruyi. Period!

Any mismanagement was on roster construction, even with the little NIL they had.

Acuff SHOULD have been better than he was this past year (not a star, but a Andre Hyatt-like offensive spark off the bench. I am not sure we will ever know how much his foot injury set him back - it certainly significantly hurt him in the 1st 1/3 of the season - and may have had a lingering effect throughout the season. I can tell you that he showed flashes of offense, JUST like Hyatt did. But he was ridiculously ineffective on defense.

Martini was a HUGE miss, despite being better down the stretch. His inability to defend well, to rebound and to make his open 3's was a HUGE problem for RU, especially through January, when they REALLY needed him. And he was almost certainly Pikiell's FIRST choice priority out of the portal (I believe Pikiell met with him the 1st couple of days on the portal and was quickly signed). And this was a huge problem - because though RU listed him at 6'8" and Princeton had listed him at 6'7", he was no taller than Derkack - and maybe shorter. Pikiell HAD to know Martini would have a real problem defending post players in the Big 10 - notwithstanding his ability to defend Omoruyi in one game.

Derkack ... I am not sure what to make of him and why he had the year he just had. I know he was a poor 3-point shooter at Merrimack. But he had just finished his Sophomore year, and even though the NEC is a very weak league, he WAS both the Player of the Year AND the Defensive Player of the Year in the NEC, as a sophomore. There were flags in his game for anyone who looked at his stats and watched clips. One flag in particular was that though he averaged 4 assists per game, he also averaged 4 turnovers per game, if I recall. He was marketed by the staff as a guard - and to me he was clearly NOT a guard,. but a pure WF, a "3", but without a 3-point shot. For me, he was bailey's back-up, and a path to recruit his younger brother, who is more higher regarded. What irks me about Derkack's season is that he NEVER showed any ability to adjust and advance his game - as an incoming Junior I would have thought growth and development would be possible. Specifically, he never stopped taking the ball to the rim on EVERY drive, even though he was remarkably ineffective getting the ball over the equally athletic and taller Big 10 players defending the rim. If Derkack is ONLY a drive-to-the basket player, with no 3-point range and NO mid-range game, he is at best a bit player, regardless of his energy and excellent athleticism. And that is on Pikiell and the staff.

Hayes was an after-thought - he was no where near even in the top 5-10 of the players RU wanted for that role ... he was basically a 1-trick pony, a designated 3-point shooter who was not nearly athletic enough to play any real defense ... who then could hit his open 3's for large portions of the season.

Are you talking about this link? https://nil-ncaa.com/

 

[cm_13]

Ok! Cam asked to come back Pike thought Gavin was the answer! Paul Jaersey’s PG left because he lost his PG job.

I don’t think we tried to keep last years roster but probably could have used 1 or 2 for continuity.

Pikes program is dead ! Can he rebuild?

Cam never asked to come back, you just made that up.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It's 7.6 PPG for the season

It's 6.6 RPG for the season

I love Cliff, but it's Robert Morris folks.

If I remember correctly, Jordan Derkack had 26 vs Michigan State less than 2 months ago, everyone has a lighta out game over a 30 to 35+ game season.....let's be fair about what Cliff can and cannot do.

 

[bac2therac]

I am sure Alabama fans today don’t care that they may have overpaid

Bama fans are wiping the stains from their underwear after this game

 

[bac2therac]

nobody who is screaming that people are wrong that NIL matters and its not realistic for us understand this point

the same people saying look at Drake look at McNeese won't consider that NONE of those guys will likely return to those schools next year

if you want to be a feeder school for other bigger programs then sticking to development and hoping for the best is fine

but don't get butthurt when your all conference sophomore and junior decides they are off to greener pastures after they blow up

Drake players were in D2 last year

 

[Jerseylegends]

Drake players were in D2 last year

If Drake were in the big ten; would they be in the tournament? I know you guys know ball so I can't understand posts like this. Like why purposefully misrepresent things? There are a lot more people on the Internet that don't know the way things work than I realized, these types of disingenuous posts are becoming a problem lol. Hopefully people learn to fact check and take everything on the Internet with a grain of salt.

 

[bac2therac]

If Drake were in the big ten; would they be in the tournament? I know you guys know ball so I can't understand posts like this. Like why purposefully misrepresent things? There are a lot more people on the Internet that don't know the way things work than I realized, these types of disingenuous posts are becoming a problem lol. Hopefully people learn to fact check and take everything on the Internet with a grain of salt.

What's your point

A team won 30 games and lost 3 and 4-5 players didn't miss a beat moving up one whole division
Beat Vandy and Missouri

 

[lion1983]

Are you talking about this link? https://nil-ncaa.com/

That was a more recent link - and a very interesting and good one ... but incomplete (since it only has certain teams on it). There was another link several months ago that had every team in the Big 10, their total athletic department revenues, and their NIL. Cannot find the link.

Here is a NY Times article about NIL - not exactly what this thread is talking about (like team by team how much NIL there is), but still interesting and worth reading: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...e_code=1.HE4.1r83.cczcx_CwesmR&smid=url-share

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

If Drake were in the big ten; would they be in the tournament? I know you guys know ball so I can't understand posts like this. Like why purposefully misrepresent things? There are a lot more people on the Internet that don't know the way things work than I realized, these types of disingenuous posts are becoming a problem lol. Hopefully people learn to fact check and take everything on the Internet with a grain of salt.

Neither team mentioned in this thread would be in the tournament if they were in the B1G with their current rosters. Big (no pun intended) difference when you're playing in the Missouri Valley and Southland conferences, respectively.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Cliff thread number 214.

Hey 2 more within 10 mins of each other running simultaneously.. need to merge them guys.