The Fanta Five: Rutgers Edition
- Thread starter MadRU
- Start date
Nice read out! I don't know who Fanta is, but he gave more information in 2 1/2 minutes than did Rothstein.
Love his opinion on Ogbole and Martini, especially - but his comments on Harper and Bailey were also sweet to hear.
Love his opinion on Ogbole and Martini, especially - but his comments on Harper and Bailey were also sweet to hear.
I'll say it again. Ogbole is going to make Cliff leaving irrelevant.
Fanta is a play-by-play guy on FS1, mostly for Big East games but he's a Jersey guy and has done some Rutgers games too. He's very good.
We don't need O from the Big O, or Sommerville for that matter this season. They can anchor down in the paint, play tough D and clean-up on defensive rebounds. On offense both are big and look agile enough to lay some heavy wood on pick plays and bang the boards for their share of rebounds and put backs.
the degree to which he can fill cliffs shoes obviously remains to be seen
But I’ve been saying from the beginning that this kid is going to contribute . Anyone paying attention could see that the kid was athletic (particularly for his size!!) - albeit raw - but not just a lumbering space eater
Don’t forget, Jay Young is back working with the bigs.
Ogbole should be a rebounding machine this season. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’ll average at least twice as many rebounds as points in ‘24-25. Looks like a 9 rebs, 4.5 points per game and 1.8 blocks per game guy to me.
He'd have to stay on the court a bunch to get 9 boards. Think we'll see him 20-24 min a night, 6 boards would be very good.
Rebounding and defense. That's what we need from the 5. Put backs and finishes. And we will get that. Big O has better hands that Cliff.
Disagree. ACE and Dylan will be taken away and both can pass reallly well and will need E and Somerville to score to make teams pay and abandon their strategy. If you get nothing offensively from the 5 man , that is not a recipe for consistent win after win. Plus Lathan can score , can dribble and can shoot up to 18 feet. We do not need any holes offensively this year if we are going make a big time run in the tourney and in the conference.
Right. That falls under finishing plays. You can take away 1 guy and make others beat you. You can't take away 2 players and make others beat you. Not in basketball.
Sounds like we are saying the same thing.
All this hype is great and everything, but as a long-suffering RU fan it makes me very nervous. I'm always worried about the other shoe dropping and the failure to live up to unrealistic expectations. Here's to hoping that RU can live up to the hype this time around.
Making the Sweet 16 would be a great accomplishment for almost any team. That's my goal for the season. Anything beyond that would be incredible. A team with two top 5 lottery picks, well, that wouldn't be the biggest surprise in sports history.
Last year, a snake would’ve had better hands than Big O so hopefully this means he made great strides in this department.
With Ogbole in the game, you are likely to see a lot of high screens (at the 3-point line) for both Harper and Bailey. Ogbole is big enough to set monster screens. If so, as Ogbole rolls to the rim, the defense will have choices:
1) Letting Ogbole go to the rim by having the wing defender jumping over the screen while Ogbole's defender stays high also ,,, in THAT scenario either Ogbole has a clear and open path to the rim for a pass - or the defense rotates from the wing or corner ... thus leaving Bailey/Harper (the one NOT doing the pick and roll) AND/OR Martini/Hayes in the corner open ... in practice clips I saw Bailey make a number of passes to the OPPOSITE wing or corner (Harper was still out - it would be even better with both in the game).
2) Having Ogbole's defender jump to Harper or Bailey and the wing defender trail Ogbole to the rim, partially cutting off a passing lane (though a shorter defender might allow an alley oop) ... but leaving a bigger but SLOWER player to cover Harper or Bailey on the switch. You could see either Harper or Bailey then beat that slower defender off the dribble to the rim, or if going to the rim is cut off by defensive rotations from the wing or corner, that leaves someone open at the 3-point line ... OR ... the defense is forced into "drop" coverage, with the post defender now on Bailey or Harper "dropping" to prevent being beaten to the rim, leaving Harper or Bailey open for relatively easy 12-16 feet mid-range shots, which both are VERY good at. Brad Smith of Purdue made a living last season off drop coverage off the pick and roll as teams followed Edey (Edey setting the screen), or after setting up for the screen refusing the screen and driving to the rim, getting a step on the defenders adjusting to the refused screen.
I am drooling, as a basketball junkie, to see how RU executes its offense - for the first time is years and years, RU has some real offensive talent.
1) Letting Ogbole go to the rim by having the wing defender jumping over the screen while Ogbole's defender stays high also ,,, in THAT scenario either Ogbole has a clear and open path to the rim for a pass - or the defense rotates from the wing or corner ... thus leaving Bailey/Harper (the one NOT doing the pick and roll) AND/OR Martini/Hayes in the corner open ... in practice clips I saw Bailey make a number of passes to the OPPOSITE wing or corner (Harper was still out - it would be even better with both in the game).
2) Having Ogbole's defender jump to Harper or Bailey and the wing defender trail Ogbole to the rim, partially cutting off a passing lane (though a shorter defender might allow an alley oop) ... but leaving a bigger but SLOWER player to cover Harper or Bailey on the switch. You could see either Harper or Bailey then beat that slower defender off the dribble to the rim, or if going to the rim is cut off by defensive rotations from the wing or corner, that leaves someone open at the 3-point line ... OR ... the defense is forced into "drop" coverage, with the post defender now on Bailey or Harper "dropping" to prevent being beaten to the rim, leaving Harper or Bailey open for relatively easy 12-16 feet mid-range shots, which both are VERY good at. Brad Smith of Purdue made a living last season off drop coverage off the pick and roll as teams followed Edey (Edey setting the screen), or after setting up for the screen refusing the screen and driving to the rim, getting a step on the defenders adjusting to the refused screen.
I am drooling, as a basketball junkie, to see how RU executes its offense - for the first time is years and years, RU has some real offensive talent.
That is really funny ... and the best humor flows from truth, LOL!
I’ll buy that he could be making big stride defensively.
But can we get a show of hands from anyone who watched E last year and thought the man has none of his own?
His poor hands seem way overrated to me, at least compared to Cliff. Cliff had some of the worst hands I’ve ever seen.
Interesting that Jeremiah didn’t leave NJ for Chicago but couldn’t play JSBL because he was allegedly playing in a tournament there
Fanta is from Cleveland... attended Seton Hall... he knows his college hoops
Did you watch a basketball game last year? Ogbole couldn't catch a cold last season. Literally looked like a guy with two nubs. Cliff was a generational talent at center.
Cliff has horrible hands. Some of the worst I’ve ever seen. He was constantly fumbling entry passes and rebounds
Generational???? Cliff has been a good college center with some strengths and some weaknesses. He is nowhere close to being generational.
There will be some high screens, but I think both Dylan and Ace would prefer to have everyone spread out so they can operate. I expect to see Dylan playing a lot like Luka was in the playoffs. If he has the ball deep, and his defender gives him too much room, he can take a 3. If his defender tries to take that away, Dylan can drive to the basket with his defender on his hip, unable to do anything but foul. If another player tries to come up and double, then players are open for easy baskets around the hoop, or he can kick out to Ace.
Most surprising and interesting thing here is Ogbole stepping up. Honestly was not expecting much from him and still consider him a project, but if he comes into his own this year - that makes this team all that much more dangerous. He definitely has the body to do some damage!
For Rutgers he was generational. I will be talking about him in 30 years. Doubt I will be talking about the guy people just said will be better than Cliff.
I feel like if Ogbole can be at the level of senior year Byron Joynes this team will be very good
I understand your point.
But I might see that more with Bailey than Harper: Bailey has that freakish athleticism that might let him beat anyone off the dribble.
As you say, Harper is very good off the dribble, getting defenders on his hip and using his superb strength, length and body control to get into the lane and even to the rim. But in the Big Ten, at the college level, Harper will be matched up against players much stronger, more athletic, better defenders, with better help defense schemes than he faced in high school, or even in the All Star games.
The entire point of surrounding Bailey and Harper (and Williams) with better shooters is to not have everyone just stand on the perimeter while Harper and Bailey go one on one. That is not an organized offense, and can be much more easily defended than a more structured (even if free flowing) offense. The high screen with Harper, especially, and also with Bailey, forces the defense to make some serious choices, in both covering the pick, and in rotational help.
Look at it this way. Last year, Purdue had the single most unstoppable offensive player in the country, an unstoppable force as a post up player. Yet still, Purdue ran the high screen with Edey screening almost 75% of the time.
The high screen offense has many variations, much more than a one on one offense.
For example, you could use motion to have Bailey receive the ball, give it back to Williams or Harper as he cuts across the floor high, and the cut to the rim outside the lane with the 5 setting a back screen, Bailey being set up for a potential back-cut alley oop. That would work particularly well with Martini or Sommerville in the game, as their defender (especially Martini's) will have to come up out of the lane following the 5 - if not and the defending 5 stays in the lane eliminating the back screen cut, then Martini will be open for a 3 from the Wing (I guess you could use it with Hayes also, though not as a 5).
Or, as I describe it in my post above, with either Bailey or Harper with the ball, the 5 setting the screen.
So ... see this clip, using Russell Westbrook to model some various options with a high screen offense: . This clip posits there are 6 options for the ball handler triggering the high screen option:
1) Use the screen to attack the rim (or even, though not shown, take the short mid-range in the lane if there is drop coverage on help) ... both Bailey and Harper could have the athletic ability to execute this option.
2) Reject the screen and attack the rim (or even, though not shown, take the short mid-range in the lane if there is drop coverage on help) - again, both Bailey and Harper could do this.
3) The clip calls this option "probe the defense: - Harper did this A LOT in high school and the All Star games - the defense recovers a bit off the screen, but the dribbler keeps the defender on his hip or back, allowing a controlled player to explore what is possible ... Harper I think is VERY good at this, and I think what you were referring to.
4) Pass to the deep roll (i.e. the player setting the screen who rolls to the rim). This is where Ogbole's improvement in his hands will be important ... without an improvement in his hands that play becomes less likely with Ogbole in the game ... Somerville, maybe, though. Not Martini (not athletic enough to offensively challenge at the rim - which is not his game anyway).
5) Pass to the SHORT roll: This would NOT work at all with Ogbole (not his skill). But it could well be a good play with Sommerville ... or a non-5 setting the high screen (Williams, Derkack, Acuff all have the nice mid-range in the lane jump shot).
6) "Snap back" pass to the wing (or corner): This is why you need shooters on the floor. Martini and Hayes will play this role a LOT. A couple of years ago Acuff was over 33% from 3, and a higher % than that in open catch and shoot 3's.
Here is an "instructional" clip showing a 4-High offense (With Bailey and Harper, this could be a very effective offense also), but with a number of variations often using elements of the high screen: .
FYI, the NBA uses a lot of high screens ... and 4-High ... and one on one. In the 1980's and 1990's the NBA was about a 2-man game, or the triangle offense. Not so much now.
Gosh, I can't wait for the basketball season to start! I love RU football, but for me basketball is king, and i LOVE these discussions!
Exactly. I wish we still had him here but he was a good college player who underachieved and only got marginally better in 4 years.
I have limited expectations for Lathan right now. He can’t just bully dudes in the BigTen like he did in high-school and people will guard him tightly away from the basket as well. Defensively, Lathan is still getting up to speed (based on the limited info I’ve seen so someone may know more about his D development).
Martini is gonna get lots of minutes IMO split between the 4 and 5 and seems like Ace is gonna see time as a “big” as well.
Tempo may pad stats in some games because having Ace dictates you try for transition buckets whenever possible.
I thought very very highly of Cliff, but (imo) his most noticeable flaw was he was pretty poor as the screener in the high pick and roll offense. I felt like he would foul about as often as he would set a solid screen. If Ogbole or Martini prove strong in that area this will/should be a much improved offensive team.
On the other hand outside of Edey and maybe Jalen Smith his frosh year, Cliff was the best big defending the pick and roll in the B1G.
On the other hand outside of Edey and maybe Jalen Smith his frosh year, Cliff was the best big defending the pick and roll in the B1G.
Last edited:
He still has to prove it in the games, but there have been a lot of positive reports on Ogbole in the off-season. His comments were not surprising to me.
I'm guessing that Wolfork saw it and that's why he moved on.
Bailey and Hinson were generational big men for Rutgers. Also not sure how you can say for "RU" he was generational in the same year that 2 or the top 3 recruits will play for the program. IMO Cliff came in as a potential generational center out of high school and turned out to be a very good defensive center and mostly a rim runner on offense. However not sure I will be talking about him in 30 years. The guys from this era that I'll be talking about are RHJ, Geo and Caleb. All of whom were the main cogs who brought RU out of a 30 year tourney slump.
Good post.
Another perspective. Are we talking a lot about Rashod Kent? Arguably he had as good a career as did Omoruyi. Also played center. Omoruyi at his best, as a Junior, did have a better year in some ways - many ways - playing in a much tougher conference, than Kent did in any single season. And Omoruyi also was part of several NCAA teams, which Kent failed to do. On the other hand, Kent arguably had 3 seasons better than Omoruyi's 2nd best season, and was a 4-year starter. And those who are too young to see him forget just how good Kent was defensively, at CENTER, listed at 6'6", but in reality closer to 6'4" 1/2 (when he tried out for the NFL at TE he was more accurately measured).
If I had to "rule" I would say Omoruyi was a bit better than Kent, but roughly in the same ball park in terms of career.
Both terrific players for RU during their careers, but neither "generational."
I do have to say it is kind of sad how few quality Centers RU has had. Omoruyi WAS one of those (and Kent), but really only 2 stars (Hinson and James Bailey). There were some others who had a good 1 or 2 seasons, showed some potential, or were excellent in a single aspect (like shot blocking,) ... N'Daiye (sp), Myles Johnson ... Eric Clark for 1/2 a season (his Senior year), Brent Dabbs as a transfer had the one terrific year, along with Earl Duncan helped RU to the NCAA (was Keith Hughes on that team also - not a center, a PF?) ... Lloyd Moore had so much potential, just never in shape and driven off by Littlepage (who was quite abusive to him - my mother witnessed several situations there that upset her). A sorry set of Centers, for the most part ... Sigh ...