OT: Mike Tyson returning to the ring
- Thread starter newell138
- Start date
Fighting Tyson would bring a lot of interest and would make a lot of money. It is purely for the money. But that doesn't mean he isn't a good boxer and both men will want to win.
IIRC, he thought about coming out of retirement when Ingamar Johannsen won the title from Floyd Patterson -- the idea was that the heavyweight champion should be an American. It was unnecessary -- Patterson defeated Johnannsen twice in rematches. One reason, according to an article by Johannsen's trainer in Sport Magazine, was that Johannsen was better at enjoying being champion than at training to keep his title.
For those who don't know, Sport Magazine (1946 -2000) was long superior to Sports Illustrated, which was fluff in comparison.
Maybe you didn't use the names you intended to, but Frazier never fought Liston (Frazier's camp wanted no part of Liston) and of course Ali defeated Foreman. Foreman did, of course, knock out Frazier twice.
Funny how boxing goes
Ali and Frazier had three brutal and fairly even fights
Foreman destroys Frazier twice, like he was nothing
Ali beats Foreman
Silva is the lone name of that group that one may think could be a good boxer(even then his striking was very diversified and not prototypical for boxing) , but when he fought Paul, Silva was 47 and way past his UFC prime. Paul was 25.
Diaz never won a UFC title, was 38 vs Paul's 26, and though a good striker by UFC standards, was certainly not a crisp puncher.
Woodley was 39, vs Paul's 24, and as noted above his strength in MMA was his wrestling.
So while I was kind of impressed by Paul's boxing ability, it has to be noted he is fighting guys who are old, and not really boxer's. I think he legitimately won these bouts but they have been very much hand picked opponents.
Now Tyson will be the oldest of the group, but also the lone true boxer, the heaviest in terms of fight weight, and clearly the most power in his prime. It's still very much fits the bill of Paul's camp picking old guys who have names, but there is some danger here.
I'd be fine if this fight never happens, but if it does, I'm really hoping Tyson knocks him out.
That would be the question, does Tyson's savage power overwhelm Ali's movement and supreme boxing skills.
I tend to lean Ali, as noted above he fought all sorts of guys with big power, but was able to, in one way or another(foot movement, rope a dope), avoid that power, and pick those guys apart. Ali was certainly not a guy who would be intimidated as many Tyson opponents were, and Tyson was a guy who tended to fade as the fight went on.
Maybe not fair to use the Buster Douglas fight as an example, but if he could beat Tyson via foot movement and a stiff jab, I have to think Ali would do the same.
I’m no expert or historian. But Ali taught men with Tyson’s Power like Frazier, Foreman. Those two would knock out a bear. Tyson’s Power would not be the problem for Ali.
Only difference was that Tyson’s speed and movement is times better than Foreman and Frazier. Now if Ali can figure out how to beat Tyson’s speed, we may have a great fight.
Just the opinion of some random shmuck.
Yes, as in football, the transitive property of math doesn't apply. -- that is, beating A that beat B doesn't guarantee you'll beat B. BTW, Foreman was afraid of Frazier until they got into the ring together.
https://andscape.com/features/foreman-frazier-at-50-revisiting-the-shocking-iconic-heavyweight-title-fight
I'm certainly not an expert, but I would think the best strategy against Tyson would be to jab constantly and move -- stick-and-move. It would also be good to be prepared to fight out of a crouch because Tyson's technique is to come in low and then destroy his opponent with uppercuts. (Being taller than Tyson is a disadvantage!) But there's no way I would try this myself!!
Tyson isn't taking a dive lie those MMa guys cash needy guys did. All of them IMO were happy to for the cash. Woodly maybe not because his stand up was alway a joke.
Paul makes millions and no shame in losing to Mike this time. But anyone who thinks Paul is a legit still thinks the WWE is too.
Paul makes millions and no shame in losing to Mike this time. But anyone who thinks Paul is a legit still thinks the WWE is too.
Ya, I might have been including that in describing Tyson's power as "savage".
I think Tyson is fairly reminiscent of Frazier really, and Tyson may have been a crisper and sharper fighter. But while Tyson was a warrior(he did take beatings in his losses) Frazier was really willing to take a beating to get where he needed to go, especially vs Ali. And Frazier was often effective later in fights, Ali 1 for instance, Tyson never really had a moment in later rounds. So if Ali was smart, and he certainly was a smart fighter, I think he waits Tyson out. Sticking and moving early, and wearing him down before going for the kill.
Some people dislike these hypothetical discussions, I tend to really enjoy them, even if I, like yourself, is merely expressing the opinion of a random shmuck.
Just remember the 14th round of the last fight between Ali and Frazier. Frazier's eye had been closed by Ali's punches, and Ali landed shot after shot in the 14th. When Frazier went back to his corner, he was asked, "What's with his left hand?" "I can't see it." Frazier replied. At that point the corner stopped the fight even though Frazier pleaded he could finish.
Tyson vs Douglas was not the same Tyson vs anyone else beforehand. Too many outside negative, bottom feeders, sucking off the Tyson name then
The whole Parkinsons thing is not a great look. If you're and athlete and you have other options you probably take them.
Does something similar happen with football? At least there are ways to work around that.
Does the rise of MMA dispel this theory? Well maybe, but MMA is not as focused on punching each in the face. Just a count of head punches landed in the respective sports and it's very lopsided. And I think there is something about participants in a new sport riding a wave of excitement and ignoring the dangers while those in an established sport don't have that same momentum driver.
Ya, that's why I said it's maybe not fair, but, and maybe this is more a premise related to respective careers, vs each fighter at their peak, but Tyson's prime was a pretty small window, Ali's career was quite long. Too long as it turned out. In that sense though, Ali's career was certainly better then Tyson's.
Ali's career, of course, was interrupted by his conviction for refusing to be drafted. The post-imprisonment Ali, while great, did not have the hand speed that he had before.
Absolutely. March 67 to Oct 70. Ages 25-29. Prime years.
I did recently just watch his first fight vs Henry Cooper. Cooper had a big knock down of Ali to end the 4th round. Blasted him into the ropes. Luckily for Ali it was the end of the round, and into the ropes. If it was mid round, and fell hard to the mat, Cooper may have been able to jump on him.....if Ali was able to recover.
Ali was able to regroup between rounds, and won the fight in the 5th via stoppage due to a gnarly cut over Cooper's left eye. Ali probably wins regardless, and as it turns out beat Cooper again, and again via stoppage due to a cut, but the knockdown was not a total abberation as Cooper fared pretty well in the fight, the first one at least.
Good quality, and on youtube for those interested.
I disagree a bit about taller boxers
Holyfield and Douglas used their size and strength well
Possibly the lesser skilled big men, Tyson could work better with
You're right, but Tyson was past his prime by then -- he had spent time in prison and, as Lennox Lewis later said after beating Tyson, being in prison hurt his conditioning.
In those days, Cassius Clay, as he was then known, would write "poems" about his upcoming fights (e.g. "[Archie] Moore will fall in four") and then live up to his prediction. For Cooper, Clay rhymed that he would fall in five - he did, but, as you say, Cooper gave Clay much more than he expected.
You misunderstood what I was saying, maybe because of the way I worded that reply
I was talking about how every power puncher Ali faced there were those who felt that power puncher would rock Ali's clock.
Frazier's name was in reference to his first fight against Ali and I never intended to say Frazier and Liston fought . Every fighter I mentioned was in reference to fighting Ali.
I bet on Sonny to beat Ali their first fight and didn't learn my lesson when Ali fought George.
Sorry to have misunderstood you. You'll recall that Liston quit, claiming a bad shoulder. You'll also remember that Ali got caustic in his eyes, and had to dodge around the ring to keep Liston from catching him. And I'm sure you know about the second fight.
It was quite reasonable to bet on Foreman in the rumble in the jungle. The odds were four-to-one against Ali.
No problem, sometimes a misunderstanding is because of how something was said.
Ali's eyes troubling him probably was because of stuff put on Sonny's shoulder that
was bothering him before the fight even started.
2nd fight dive (common description of the loss ) ruined the way Sonny Liston would be thought of after that fight and ( in my opinion) a chance for another title shot.
Won 16 fights after the 2nd loss to Ali and 15 of them were by KO/TKO
FWIW, Angelo Dundee, who was in Ali's corner, dismisses the theory that Liston was trying to do something illegal to blind Ali. That doesn't disagree with what you say.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/liston-didn-t-blind-ali-6987354.html
There are people who think the second fight was legitimate. Ali did hit Liston but it is hard to believe that the punch would have knocked out a professional boxer. Liston was hurt not just by the fight, but by organized crime's connections to him. That's why the fight had to be in a high school gym in Lewiston, Maine -- Massachusetts wouldn't allow the fight in that state.
I was listening to Rogan describe MMA vs boxing.
Boxing has deaths and MMA has none.
The reason given is that MMA fights are over faster.
Ali actually boxing for more rounds would do more damage to him than the few rounds of MMA fighting (going to the floor).
Personally I could never get into MMA because it looks like bar fighting and a lot of the fighters are just fodder - mismatches happen a lot
Boxing has deaths and MMA has none.
The reason given is that MMA fights are over faster.
Ali actually boxing for more rounds would do more damage to him than the few rounds of MMA fighting (going to the floor).
Personally I could never get into MMA because it looks like bar fighting and a lot of the fighters are just fodder - mismatches happen a lot
Tyson looks juiced - the veins are always a sign and spesh on older athletes (Bonds getting cross forearm veins were proof his added size wasn't just from "getting older").
If this was a legit fight, Tyson would destroy him with his experience and skills.
Unfortunately, this is just an “exhibition” to have Paul look good if not beat a boxing legend.
Unfortunately, this is just an “exhibition” to have Paul look good if not beat a boxing legend.
Wha time is this fight supposed to start Friday ? I know Netflix says 8. Is there an undercard ?
Just trying to plan my night !
Just trying to plan my night !
Several conditions were placed on the fight between Paul and Tyson, with them making it slightly different to most professional fights you might have watched.
First up, instead of the standard 10-ounce gloves worn in a heavyweight fight, they will wear 14-ounce gloves. The heavier the glove, the more padding and the more shock absorbed by the glove, rather than the fist and point of contact on the opposition fighter.
Following this up, there will be eight rounds instead of the usual 12.
And for those eight rounds, they will be two minutes long instead of the standard three minutes you see in a professional bout.
First up, instead of the standard 10-ounce gloves worn in a heavyweight fight, they will wear 14-ounce gloves. The heavier the glove, the more padding and the more shock absorbed by the glove, rather than the fist and point of contact on the opposition fighter.
Following this up, there will be eight rounds instead of the usual 12.
And for those eight rounds, they will be two minutes long instead of the standard three minutes you see in a professional bout.
While the heavier gloves probably work in Paul's favor, I think fewer and shorter rounds give Tyson the advantage as stamina is probably his biggest weakness now.
If you have a Netflix account, you can watch the fight for free.
Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson start time
- Date: Friday, November 15
- Time: 8 p.m. ET | 5 p.m. PT | 1 a.m. BST | 11 a.m. AEDT (Saturday)
- Main event start time (approx.): 11:15 p.m. ET | 8:15 p.m. PT | 4 a.m. BST | 2 p.m. AEDT
- Location: AT&T Stadium - Arlington, Texas
Thanks for the info . Was trying to figure out what time it could start
Kinda ironic to say if you pay for something like a subscription “you can can watch it for free.” Lol
My 11 year old is pumped for this. Getting to show him old Tyson clips has been fun. I have no doubt it will be more production than fight, but hopefully it’s still entertaining.