Cliff was playing hurt tonight

[Nycrusupporter]

Our fans are schizophrenics, claiming Cliff is hurt when he is playing, and Mag is healthy when he is not playing . . .

 

[anon1753890747]

There's a difference between saying a coach should say this and that coaches do say it 100% of the time with every player and every injury

I don't think it's realistic to think that every coach says this about every player every time they are banged up and play

There are most likely multiple players on every team that aren't 100% and playing without a coach saying anything

he's referring to me. I think it's ridiculous for people to suggest Cliff 'must be injured' every time he plays poorly without any evidence for it. Why no 'Wolf must be injured' ? Or Hyatt ? Or GG ?

Maybe games where Pike seems to be outcoached it's because he's under the weather too ?

 

[anon1753890747]

Nuance my friend…. Cliff is a dominant shot blocker, rebounder and dunker, coming off of one of the best performances of his career.
When your best player has 6 points and 2 rebounds the next game, he should be protected by his coach in my opinion.
Unless he ain’t hurt.
We’re not talking about players not being 100%, that’s a given.
We’re talking about your best player not even competing… if he’s gutting it up, say so.

Thanks for laying this out.
Especially in the case where the player has pro aspirations, with a lot of folks watching him. I would expect a coach to say something to manage perceptions.

 

[zappaa]

Thanks for laying this out.
Especially in the case where the player has pro aspirations, with a lot of folks watching him. I would expect a coach to say something to manage perceptions.

People on here seem to think I want Pike to disclose medical records and be specific about his injury.
Saying Cliff is one tough dude and gutting up for his school and teammates hias nothing to do with divulging his medical issues.
It’s called having his back.
Which I think Pike would do if he was clearly playing through an injury

 

[mildone_rivals]

he's referring to me. I think it's ridiculous for people to suggest Cliff 'must be injured' every time he plays poorly without any evidence for it. Why no 'Wolf must be injured' ? Or Hyatt ? Or GG ?

Maybe games where Pike seems to be outcoached it's because he's under the weather too ?

Who here said he's injured every time? I sure didn't. Sometimes players have bad games.

I'm not even saying he's injured now. I have no idea, although it's certainly a possibility and nobody in this thread has contributed anything that proves it's not a possibility. It's all speculation.

Either he's playing with an injury or he's not. We don't know. That leaves people with a choice to guess (or to not speculate at all, as I'm doing). The question is, why would anybody, who is purportedly a fan of the team, choose to speculate in a way that intentionally paints a player on that team in such a negative way?

I mean, it's mostly a rhetorical question. The psychology here is simple. It has nothing to do with the player. It's all about the fans expressing their disappointment about a bad performance in the same way little children express disappointment: by overreacting and trying to break stuff.

"Cliff made me mad by not being better in that game. So I'm going to insult him here on the forum behind his back."

It's childish. And normally I'd leave it alone.

But here's the thing. If people want to bash the players for their performance, using the excuse that they're just telling it like it is, then those same people should be totally okay with being bashed for their performance as fans here on the forum.

At least the fans here have the opportunity to defend themselves, unlike the players. Of course there's about zero chance any of you who love to insult the players would ever do so to their faces. Which should tell you something, but mostly doesn't.

 

[NickRU714]

If Clif has a nagging back injury that is limiting him on Sunday after a game Thursday, how was it possible that we were winning 3 games in the Big Ten Tournament on back to back days?

 

[Shelby65]

Who here said he's injured every time? I sure didn't. Sometimes players have bad games.

I'm not even saying he's injured now. I have no idea, although it's certainly a possibility and nobody in this thread has contributed anything that proves it's not a possibility. It's all speculation.

Either he's playing with an injury or he's not. We don't know. That leaves people with a choice to guess (or to not speculate at all, as I'm doing). The question is, why would anybody, who is purportedly a fan of the team, choose to speculate in a way that intentionally paints a player on that team in such a negative way?

I mean, it's mostly a rhetorical question. The psychology here is simple. It has nothing to do with the player. It's all about the fans expressing their disappointment about a bad performance in the same way little children express disappointment: by overreacting and trying to break stuff.

"Cliff made me mad by not being better in that game. So I'm going to insult him here on the forum behind his back."

It's childish. And normally I'd leave it alone.

But here's the thing. If people want to bash the players for their performance, using the excuse that they're just telling it like it is, then those same people should be totally okay with being bashed for their performance as fans here on the forum.

At least the fans here have the opportunity to defend themselves, unlike the players. Of course there's about zero chance any of you who love to insult the players would ever do so to their faces. Which should tell you something, but mostly doesn't.

I’m not mad at Cliff. I don’t get mad at Simpson or the refs. I’m not mad when they lose or giddy when they win.

What does make me mad is homer-imbecile fans making phony excuses, whether for Cliff (he’s so talented be must be injured) or Wimsatt (he’s young) or DSelfish (he’s just in a slump) or Schiano (it’s still Ash’s fault).

Homer ******** makes me mad. ****** performance is ****** performance. Don’t waste my time with asinine excuses for shittiness.

 

[ScarletDave]

I’m not mad at Cliff. I don’t get mad at Simpson or the refs. I’m not mad when they lose or giddy when they win.

What does make me mad is homer-imbecile fans making phony excuses, whether for Cliff (must be injured) or Wimsatt (he’s young) or DSelfish (he’s just in a slump) or Schiano (it’s still Ash’s fault).

Homer ******** makes me mad. ****** performance is ****** performance. Don’t waste my time with asinine excuses for shittiness.

It’s not BS? Obviously you’re not a season ticket holder. Anyone here who’s been to every game at the RAC has to remember the 3 or 4 times this season that Cliff went to the bench holding his back and then came
Back in later or stayed out .. it could have not been shown on TV and also some were def early games on BTNPlus which many of the lesser fans don’t buy.

 

[anon1753890747]

I’m not mad at Cliff. I don’t get mad at Simpson or the refs. I’m not mad when they lose or giddy when they win.

What does make me mad is homer-imbecile fans making phony excuses, whether for Cliff (he’s so talented be must be injured) or Wimsatt (he’s young) or DSelfish (he’s just in a slump) or Schiano (it’s still Ash’s fault).

Homer ******** makes me mad. ****** performance is ****** performance. Don’t waste my time with asinine excuses for shittiness.

Love it Shelby, on point well said. Also agree with all your examples.
The whole Wimsatt thing illustrates it perfectly.
I am a fan, and the homer B.S. on this board has a touch of insanity associated with it.

 

[Scarlet83]

I’m not mad at Cliff. I don’t get mad at Simpson or the refs. I’m not mad when they lose or giddy when they win.

What does make me mad is homer-imbecile fans making phony excuses, whether for Cliff (he’s so talented be must be injured) or Wimsatt (he’s young) or DSelfish (he’s just in a slump) or Schiano (it’s still Ash’s fault).

Homer ******** makes me mad. ****** performance is ****** performance. Don’t waste my time with asinine excuses for shittiness.

There now. You have yelled at all of the clouds again. Atta boy.

 

[Shelby65]

It’s not BS? Obviously you’re not a season ticket holder. Anyone here who’s been to every game at the RAC has to remember the 3 or 4 times this season that Cliff went to the bench holding his back and then came
Back in later or stayed out .. it could have not been shown on TV and also some were def early games on BTNPlus which many of the lesser fans don’t buy.

wrong on all counts DaveyBoy...but nice try.

This year I have indeed seen Cliff "suffer" more injuries: lower back, jaw, groin, windpipe and don't forget Bardo's brilliant, Hippocratic "devastating high ankle sprain" than Evel Knievel when he jumped buses in Vegas it seems, knocking him out of several games in tremendous pain only to run back onto the court within minutes. Makes you wonder if he has a twin brother. Maybe the twin played against Nebraska ?

Cliff has amazing healing powers. Science should study him. I bet he could regenerate limbs at halftime if he needed to.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

He was as explosive and dominant against Michigan two games ago than I’ve ever seen him

Dominant , yes. Explosive ? No

Go watch his soph year games …the man dunked angry and from 11 and a half feet pkus regularly …thsrs not few and far between

Agree to disagree and im not making excuses …I’m just telling you what my eyes see

 

[Scangg]

Dominant , yes. Explosive ? No

Go watch his soph year games …the man dunked angry and from 11 and a half feet pkus regularly …thsrs not few and far between

Agree to disagree and im not making excuses …I’m just telling you what my eyes see

I don't think it's really debatable that Cliff looked most explosive as a sophomore

 

[zappaa]

I don't think it's really debatable that Cliff looked most explosive as a sophomore

That’s two years ago

 

[RUDiddy777]

Wrong!
There’s no reason for a coach not to address a kid playing with a pain issue post game …. None.
He doesn’t need to discuss the injury or what it is.
He should always acknowledge a kid’s toughness

You don’t think disclosing a weakness of deficiency would encourage the next team to attack it as part of the game plan?

 

[zappaa]

You don’t think disclosing a weakness of deficiency would encourage the next team to attack it as part of the game plan?

I have no doubt they will attack him and us exactly the same if he scored 30 points and had 15 rebounds

 

[NickRU714]

You don’t think disclosing a weakness of deficiency would encourage the next team to attack it as part of the game plan?

Allick had 10pts and 12rbs
Not sure if a team game planning to attack Clif is going to matter.
Seems like that’s already part of the game plan.

 

[runrutgersrun]

I admittedly know nothing about Cliff's injury issues. However, I have seen confidentiality issues handled in amazingly different manners at companies for which I have worked over the years. I worked for one pharma company where the atmosphere was very loose-y goose-y and you were allowed to tell a customer/complainant a lot of information on the phone if it helped resolve the issue. I have also worked for other pharma companies where you were VERY restricted in what you could tell a customer. Almost everything needed legal review before you could respond to inquiries. I think Rutgers institutionally is very conservative as far as what one of their employees can/should say about a player/student (or coach). As different as Coach Schiano and Coach Pike seem publicly about how they run their programs, they seem very similar in discussing anything that might even be remotely considered personal information. When the saga was going on with Coach Stringer, I used to think Rutgers could/should say something, ANYTHING, about what was going on - even if it just made RU seem supportive/sympathetic. However, they said nothing either way. Rutgers responds (or doesn't respond) as such with nearly any public issue/battle, saying nothing at all, hoping the problem will just go away. Could this silence on personal stuff just be a result of one very, very conservative, tight-lipped administration and legal department?

Besides all this, I don't like seeing posters here that I enjoy reading in disagreement lol...so there! GO RU!

 

[RUDiddy777]

I have no doubt they will attack him and us exactly the same if he scored 30 points and had 15 rebounds

As our best defensive player, teams avoid him. If he’s less than 100, you’re more inclined to go at him.

 

[RUDiddy777]

I admittedly know nothing about Cliff's injury issues. However, I have seen confidentiality issues handled in amazingly different manners at companies for which I have worked over the years. I worked for one pharma company where the atmosphere was very loose-y goose-y and you were allowed to tell a customer/complainant a lot of information on the phone if it helped resolve the issue. I have also worked for other pharma companies where you were VERY restricted in what you could tell a customer. Almost everything needed legal review before you could respond to inquiries. I think Rutgers institutionally is very conservative as far as what one of their employees can/should say about a player/student (or coach). As different as Coach Schiano and Coach Pike seem publicly about how they run their programs, they seem very similar in discussing anything that might even be remotely considered personal information. When the saga was going on with Coach Stringer, I used to think Rutgers could/should say something, ANYTHING, about what was going on - even if it just made RU seem supportive/sympathetic. However, they said nothing either way. Rutgers responds (or doesn't respond) as such with nearly any public issue/battle, saying nothing at all, hoping the problem will just go away. Could this silence on personal stuff just be a result of one very, very conservative, tight-lipped administration and legal department?

Besides all this, I don't like seeing posters here that I enjoy reading in disagreement lol...so there! GO RU!

I think he may be injured - but he’s also had some games where he appears disinterested of the guards aren’t getting him the ball at all. Either one fits the narrative from yesterday.

 

[Shelby65]

Love it Shelby, on point well said. Also agree with all your examples.
The whole Wimsatt thing illustrates it perfectly.
I am a fan, and the homer B.S. on this board has a touch of insanity associated with it.

I have no doubt they will attack him and us exactly the same if he scored 30 points and had 15 rebounds

Right. Is always the strategy to get him in foul trouble, injured or not.

More to the point, too many here assume he’s injured with the only evidence being bad games. That makes no sense.

 

[zappaa]

As our best defensive player, teams avoid him. If he’s less than 100, you’re more inclined to go at him.

Let me ask you, you don’t think the opposition Center after about 3 minutes will tell his coach, Cliff is not right…go after him

 

[BigRnj]

Dominant , yes. Explosive ? No

Go watch his soph year games …the man dunked angry and from 11 and a half feet pkus regularly …thsrs not few and far between

Agree to disagree and im not making excuses …I’m just telling you what my eyes see

Did your eyes also see Cliff surrounded with better offensive players? He was. Players that had to be checked more than our current scoring challenged roster (limiting the times Cliff would be doubled … pick your poison).

IMHO Cliff also benefited from better passing teams in prior seasons. Until JWill joined the rotation this season much of our dribble penetration was, frustratingly, hero ball. Drives with head down, not seeing the court, not dishing to open players (often Cliff‘s defender would double but no dish/lob would follow) ending in forced low percentage shots, turnovers, blocked shots, etc. Simpson comes to mind most here. Our ball handlers often do not make others better.

All that said Cliff’s energy/explosiveness has been off much of this season. I just think most of it is due to the lack of effective ball movement on the “O” side of the ball, less due to effort.

PS - this is why I think Cliff will kill it next year if he returns (he can‘t create on his own but will feed off of better players giving him more opportunity)

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Cliff looked like The Ultimate Warrior against lowly Michigan. Throwing them down from everywhere. To suggest his poor performance the very next game is somehow due to injury when there is no evidence of injury is rather silly. I give Cliff a lot of credit actually as he has played a pretty injury free career here at Rutgers all things considered. Doesn't have great practices and the next day tell coach he's out. However, when he plays poorly, I think it's rather lame to make completely unsubstantiated excuses.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Who here said he's injured every time? I sure didn't. Sometimes players have bad games.

I'm not even saying he's injured now. I have no idea, although it's certainly a possibility and nobody in this thread has contributed anything that proves it's not a possibility. It's all speculation.

Either he's playing with an injury or he's not. We don't know. That leaves people with a choice to guess (or to not speculate at all, as I'm doing). The question is, why would anybody, who is purportedly a fan of the team, choose to speculate in a way that intentionally paints a player on that team in such a negative way?

I mean, it's mostly a rhetorical question. The psychology here is simple. It has nothing to do with the player. It's all about the fans expressing their disappointment about a bad performance in the same way little children express disappointment: by overreacting and trying to break stuff.

"Cliff made me mad by not being better in that game. So I'm going to insult him here on the forum behind his back."

It's childish. And normally I'd leave it alone.

But here's the thing. If people want to bash the players for their performance, using the excuse that they're just telling it like it is, then those same people should be totally okay with being bashed for their performance as fans here on the forum.

At least the fans here have the opportunity to defend themselves, unlike the players. Of course there's about zero chance any of you who love to insult the players would ever do so to their faces. Which should tell you something, but mostly doesn't.

You haven’t said he is injured every time, but on this forum every time Cliff has a bad game there is a thread speculating that he is injured. It happens like clockwork.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

As our best defensive player, teams avoid him. If he’s less than 100, you’re more inclined to go at him.

He is a great help defender, but he is a poor post defender, which is a major reason there is so little NBA interest. Teams with decent big men don‘t hesitate to pound the ball into the post against us.

 

[Scangg]

Some games Cliff doesn't look engaged. If he doesn't get involved early he can disappear. Many hated Pike trying to go to Cliff in the post early in games but I think this is a big reason why

If someone has a bad back it can feel good then flare up. You can have good days and bad. Is that a reason for every bad game? No. Could it be worse Some games and limit his effectiveness? Of course

Bottom line is no one knows if Cliff is 100% or not, and if he is dealing with nagging injuries, how bad they are

 

[mildone_rivals]

You haven’t said he is injured every time, but on this forum every time Cliff has a bad game there is a thread speculating that he is injured. It happens like clockwork.

I don’t see how some fans speculating about injuries as a potential contributing factor for a poor performance justifies other fans being deeply insulting towards the players.

You know… To claim that fans are insulting players because of how other fans behave sounds a lot like excuse-making in order to try and justify bad fan behavior. Which is more than a little ironic, if you think about it.

If the issue is with other fans, then by all means, insult the other fans. I’m 100% for us fans insulting one-another. The more creative the insults, the better.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I don’t see how some fans speculating about injuries as a potential contributing factor for a poor performance justifies other fans being deeply insulting towards the players.

You know… To claim that fans are insulting players because of how other fans behave sounds a lot like excuse-making in order to try and justify bad fan behavior. Which is more than a little ironic, if you think about it.

If the issue is with other fans, then by all means, insult the other fans. I’m 100% for us fans insulting one-another. The more creative the insults, the better.

I wasn’t trying to address fans insulting players, which is a separate issue. Would be great if fans refrained from that, but you may have noticed people get abnormally worked up about the ebb and flow of our team and pretty much any team, and probably shouldn’t be surprised.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Let me ask you, you don’t think the opposition Center after about 3 minutes will tell his coach, Cliff is not right…go after him

But that’s still not what they practiced for.

 

[zappaa]

Some games Cliff doesn't look engaged. If he doesn't get involved early he can disappear. Many hated Pike trying to go to Cliff in the post early in games but I think this is a big reason why

If someone has a bad back it can feel good then flare up. You can have good days and bad. Is that a reason for every bad game? No. Could it be worse Some games and limit his effectiveness? Of course

Bottom line is no one knows if Cliff is 100% or not, and if he is dealing with nagging injuries, how bad they are

Obviously we don’t know because the coach doesn’t address if his players are sacrificing and gutting up because they aren't 100 percent.
No i don’t think it gives the opposing team or coach any advantage, if Cliff is having a non flare up day it would reflect in his play and there’s not a damn thing the opposing team can do about it, if he’s having a bad back day, the opposing team will realize it in about 3 minutes.
If it flares up during a game, his play will reflect it.
We had this exact same thread one year ago, and you agree Cliff isn’t as explosive as he was 2 years ago…
If he has a chronic bad back I feel bad for him.

 

[zappaa]

But that’s still not what they practiced for.

This ain’t midget basketball.
You attack and adjust on the fly in big boy sports.

 

[zebnatto]

The excuse making for Cliff is beyond me.

 

[motorb54]

He was dominate against the worst defensive team in the conference.
He was shut down by the best defensive team in the conference.
Nebraska did not let our guards penetrate and crowded Cliff to prevent passes to him and quickly doubled when he did get the ball.
And our three guard plus Hyatt lineup is very weak for rebounding.

 

[anon1753890747]

He was dominate against the worst defensive team in the conference.
He was shut down by the best defensive team in the conference.
Nebraska did not let our guards penetrate and crowded Cliff to prevent passes to him and quickly doubled when he did get the ball.
And our three guard plus Hyatt lineup is very weak for rebounding.

Agreed, and Cliff was slow in his cuts to the basket.
When Wolf made hard quick cuts to the basket our guards got him the ball.
Cliff also did not have a good night rebounding, seemed slow to the ball and just got out hustled.
Wolf did better rebounding when he was in vs Cliff