3 PT improvement a must in 2024-25

[NewJerseyHawk]

In order to close this 2023-24 season off the right way, RU needs to improve on it's 3 point makes. That will require lineup changes with starters who cannot score or shoot, to players who can.

Here are the numbers with 4 games left for RU and all the other B1G teams, plus 2 bubble OOC teams we have played in Mississippi State and Wake Forest.

Nebraska 264-731 36.1%
Purdue 237-590. 40.9%
Michigan 231-623. 37.1%
Illinois 231-669. 34.5%
Nwestern 229-580. 39.5%
Penn State 224-677. 33.1%
Minnesota 217-611. 35.5%
Ohio State 195-586. 33.3%
Wisconsin 188-555. 33.9%
Mich State 183-499. 36.7%
Iowa 183-538. 34.0%
Maryland 170-588. 28.9%
Rutgers 147-505. 29.1%
Indiana 140-440. 31.8%

Wake Forest 234-625 37.4%
Miss State 208-636 32.7%

2018-19 RU 191-612. 31.2%
2019-20 RU 172-554. 31.0%
2020-21 RU 157-505. 31.1%
2021-22 RU 188-560. 33.6%
2022-23. RU 187-588. 31.8%
2023-24 RU 147-505. 29.1%
2024-25. RU ???????

In order for RU to compete for a NCAA bid next year, modest improvements are needed in all areas....but RU is kinda in line with where MOST Pike teams have landed. The better RU teams (Geo Baker, RHJ etc), wound up with better shooting percentages from 3.

At the same time, putting all the 3 point shooting percentages and making 3 pointers all on Dylan Harper and Ace Baileys shoulders, by starting Mag and not finding another 6'4 to 6'6 guard who can playmake and hit shots, would be very difficult.

We "can" expect improvements from underclassmen like Griffiths, Simpson, JWill and Davis, will need to improve across the board. But we need another guard AND either start Lathan Sommerville at the 4, with Cliff at the 5......OR....start Lathan at the 5 and find another legitimate all purpose guard (not just a stationary shooter).

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

I think RU competes for a bid regardless because of our new recruits coming in. However, what you say above will have relevance for us to compete for a BIG Ten title or advance deep in the tourney.

 

[kcg88]

I mean yes of course you would like it to be better but Mississippi State was dead last in the country in 3P% last year and they made the tournament. TCU was 330th and got a 6 seed. Arkansas was 317th and got an 8 seed. Auburn was 309th and got a 9 seed.

 

[fluoxetine]

I thought shooting percentages were nonsense.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Don't forget 2-point shooting and 1-point shooting as well.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I mean yes of course you would like it to be better but Mississippi State was dead last in the country in 3P% last year and they made the tournament. TCU was 330th and got a 6 seed. Arkansas was 317th and got an 8 seed. Auburn was 309th and got a 9 seed.

Each of those teams had NBA type rosters, specifically Arkansas and Auburn. TCUs best player was legitimately on NBA radars at 18PPG.

It's asking a lot of 2 freshman, who are NBA caliber kids, to carry players who in some cases, wouldn't start on most NCAA caliber teams.

 

[Bayonnebomber79]

Don't forget 2-point shooting and 1-point shooting as well.

Exactly! We also need better court spacing and ball movement. Learning how to execute a proper fast break would also be nice

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Don't forget 2-point shooting and 1-point shooting as well.

Those are not as bad as it was early in the season. That comes down to shot selection OR whose taking those 2s or FTs. The more minutes you have poor shooters or players on the floor, the numbers don't get better, they get worse.

Even if RU just splits the remaining 4 games, they would have finished the B1G regular season with JWill starting and RU would have a winning record with him starting (assumed 6-5, so far 4-3 since he started playing). Add Dylan and Ace to that and I don't see RU finishing under .500 in conference next year. I have bigger goals than 10-10 in B1G play.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So much to discuss with this topic.....I don't disagree with the premise.

Question 1
How much is our poor 3 point shooting % due to to our defensive intensity?

Question 2 (sort of related to Q1)
Is the poor shooting of freshman related to the above and is there anything that can be done to fix?

Question 3
Do we need to take guys like Simpson or Davis and get them out of the rotation?

How many minutes in a 200 minute rotation can you have where a player can't or won't take and make a lightly contested 3 at at least 30+%?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Exactly! We also need better court spacing and ball movement. Learning how to execute a proper fast break would also be nice

That is a small % of the problem. It is part of the problem though. Can't put a center in a position where he gets doubled and there is no one on the strong side to pass to.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Those are not as bad as it was early in the season. . . .

It's disastrous, and its shooting of all kinds, guarded, unguarded, smart or stupid. The one constant is the bad shooting. Here are the team's woeful rankings among its peers:

FT shooting: 330th
2pt shooting: 353th
3pt shooting: 341th

This should be the headline of an article. It's incredible.

 

[Mr_Twister]

Is this a recycled thread with new years plugged in the Subject line?

 

[kcg88]

Each of those teams had NBA type rosters, specifically Arkansas and Auburn. TCUs best player was legitimately on NBA radars at 18PPG.

It's asking a lot of 2 freshman, who are NBA caliber kids, to carry players who in some cases, wouldn't start on most NCAA caliber teams.

Arkansas was two and a half NBA freshmen (Nick Smith was injured a lot) and a lot of dreck -- just look how bad they are this year without Smith, Black, and Walsh.

 

[DHajekRC84]

It's disastrous, and its shooting of all kinds, guarded, unguarded, smart or stupid. The one constant is the bad shooting. Here are the team's woeful rankings among its peers:

FT shooting: 330th
2pt shooting: 353th
3pt shooting: 341th

This should be the headline of an article. It's incredible.

nothing has frackin changed with this coach... everything everyone is saying spot on but the issue is it is nothing new and in year 6 it is still as bad and even worse. Put Brad Underwood on the bench and I bet you'd see a totally different team approach and production. And if Pike isn't in charge of the offense he should have made a change a few years ago and get into the big boy pants.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

The guy who was ready to chase Cam Spencer off the team is now asking that we improve our 3 point shooting the rest of the way . . .

 

[biazza38]

It’s unacceptable
I’ll simplify it, stop playing guards who can’t shoot

 

[DHajekRC84]

2018-19 RU 191-612. 31.2% (Ron 28% on 108, Geo 34% on 176)

2019-20 RU 172-554. 31.0% (Ron 35% on 109, Geo 28% on 125, Yeboah 35% on 108)
2020-21 RU 157-505. 31.1% (Ron 31% on 145, Geo 30% on 122, JY 37% on 84, Paul 39% on 56)
2021-22 RU 188-560. 33.6% (Ron 40% on 171 shots, Geo 33% on 157, Paul 35% on 75, Caleb 27% on 59, Hyatt 27% on 48)
2022-23. RU 187-588. 31.8% (Cam 43% on 166, Hyatt 31% on 137 , Paul 37% on 54, Caleb 27% on 59,)
2023-24 RU 147-505. 29.1% (Hyatt 32% on 137, Simpson 30% on 63, GG 25% on 80, Mag 25% on 49, Noah 36% on 64)

Only a couple of stellar years by a couple of players...35-36% is what internet says is "good"

One of our best shooters wouldn't take enough. Too many others think it is their duty to hoist em up. Frankly it blows my mind that a HC doesn't look at this and put things in play to address this.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It's disastrous, and its shooting of all kinds, guarded, unguarded, smart or stupid. The one constant is the bad shooting. Here are the team's woeful rankings among its peers:

FT shooting: 330th
2pt shooting: 353th
3pt shooting: 341th

This should be the headline of an article. It's incredible.

This 100%. Our 3 point shooting stinks, but it’s possible to have a good team that doesn’t shoot the 3 ball well.

For perspective - ESPN data only goes back to 2002-03. Only one time in the 21 year span from then to now has Rutgers put a lower percentage of shots in the basket than this season. That year, 2006-07 we won a grand total of 9 D1 games.

 

[DHajekRC84]

This 100%. Our 3 point shooting stinks, but it’s possible to have a good team that doesn’t shoot the 3 ball well.

For perspective - ESPN data only goes back to 2002-03. Only one time in the 21 year span from then to now has Rutgers put a lower percentage of shots in the basket than this season. That year, 2006-07 we won a grand total of 9 D1 games.

Very true. You value the ball and you value your shots. You design and run your offense around what you DO do well and not make things harder on yourself.

 

[Kbee3]

It's disastrous, and its shooting of all kinds, guarded, unguarded, smart or stupid. The one constant is the bad shooting. Here are the team's woeful rankings among its peers:

FT shooting: 330th
2pt shooting: 353th
3pt shooting: 341th

This should be the headline of an article. It's incredible.

Those numbers are incredibly bad.
How could there be 352 teams that shoot 2-point field goals better than Rutgers ?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Those numbers are incredibly bad.
How could there be 352 teams that shoot 2-point field goals better than Rutgers ?

Yeah that’s kind of the point. Enough on the talk about us spending too much time on D. Pike always focuses on D and we’ve never been bad historically at scoring like this.

It’s one thing to be a below average shooting team for a major conference squad - there are 362 D1 schools and were worse than all but 10 of them at 2s and we rank even worse - 357th at overall shooting percentage (only 5 schools worse than us in all D1). We are historically bad.

 

[goru7]

The guy who was ready to chase Cam Spencer off the team is now asking that we improve our 3 point shooting the rest of the way . . .

How poetic ? Another fail with Hawk. The last few posts are killing Mag , a kid coming off ACL surgery , playing in a dysfunctional offense where guards do not pass to the wings , Hyatt, Gavin or him enough and not to Cliff either . He also doubled down with we will not miss Cam and Paul. How wrong can someone be ?

 

[rubigtimenow]

The guy who was ready to chase Cam Spencer off the team is now asking that we improve our 3 point shooting the rest of the way . . .

I just saw the thread and was wondering if someone was going to call out hawk.
To add, Hawk:
#1. You do remember saying in multiple threads that we weren’t going to miss Cam because GG was going to shoot as well as Cam this year from 3?
#2. Do you mind breaking down the 2023-2024 three-point shooting into “Cam” separate from “RU not including Cam”?
#3. Let’s pretend Cam had 1 more year of eligibility and he wanted to come back here for a reasonable figure (e.g., what he’s getting this year) and we have the money. Do you want him back?

Man, I would LOVE to get real and succinct answers to these questions Hawk. Thanks!

 

[RUsojo]

In order to close this 2023-24 season off the right way, RU needs to improve on it's 3 point makes. That will require lineup changes with starters who cannot score or shoot, to players who can.

Here are the numbers with 4 games left for RU and all the other B1G teams, plus 2 bubble OOC teams we have played in Mississippi State and Wake Forest.

Nebraska 264-731 36.1%
Purdue 237-590. 40.9%
Michigan 231-623. 37.1%
Illinois 231-669. 34.5%
Nwestern 229-580. 39.5%
Penn State 224-677. 33.1%
Minnesota 217-611. 35.5%
Ohio State 195-586. 33.3%
Wisconsin 188-555. 33.9%
Mich State 183-499. 36.7%
Iowa 183-538. 34.0%
Maryland 170-588. 28.9%
Rutgers 147-505. 29.1%
Indiana 140-440. 31.8%

Wake Forest 234-625 37.4%
Miss State 208-636 32.7%

2018-19 RU 191-612. 31.2%
2019-20 RU 172-554. 31.0%
2020-21 RU 157-505. 31.1%
2021-22 RU 188-560. 33.6%
2022-23. RU 187-588. 31.8%
2023-24 RU 147-505. 29.1%
2024-25. RU ???????

In order for RU to compete for a NCAA bid next year, modest improvements are needed in all areas....but RU is kinda in line with where MOST Pike teams have landed. The better RU teams (Geo Baker, RHJ etc), wound up with better shooting percentages from 3.

At the same time, putting all the 3 point shooting percentages and making 3 pointers all on Dylan Harper and Ace Baileys shoulders, by starting Mag and not finding another 6'4 to 6'6 guard who can playmake and hit shots, would be very difficult.

We "can" expect improvements from underclassmen like Griffiths, Simpson, JWill and Davis, will need to improve across the board. But we need another guard AND either start Lathan Sommerville at the 4, with Cliff at the 5......OR....start Lathan at the 5 and find another legitimate all purpose guard (not just a stationary shooter).

Geo was not that good a 3pt shooter in our two best seasons, Covid year and NCAA appearance he shot 29% from 3. He took the most 3s on the team. Rest min 100 att:

McConnell 24% (least minutes played)
Montez Mathis 30%
Jacob Young 33%
Harper 34%
Yeboah 35%

Paul 38% on just a little less volume.

We shot very well from 3 in our best years from our guys that played the most minutes.

Crucial going forward

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Geo was not that good a 3pt shooter in our two best seasons, Covid year and NCAA appearance he shot 29% from 3. He took the most 3s on the team. Rest min 100 att:

McConnell 24% (least minutes played)
Montez Mathis 30%
Jacob Young 33%
Harper 34%
Yeboah 35%

Paul 38% on just a little less volume.

We shot very well from 3 in our best years from our guys that played the most minutes.

Crucial going forward

I mean sure - but we shot better from 2 also. Plain and simple, we put the ball through the net a lot more often.

 

[RuBird]

Don't forget 2-point shooting and 1-point shooting as well.

Better 1 point shooting would have us either in the tourney or smack dab on the bubble instead of the outside looking in

 

[RUsojo]

I mean sure - but we shot better from 2 also. Plain and simple, we put the ball through the net a lot more often.

As offensive efficiency numbers have ballooned across the country from where they were just a few years ago 3s are much more crucial going forward.

This is why our shot quality is such a problem. Needs to be corrected.

 

[seansherm]

Those are not as bad as it was early in the season. That comes down to shot selection OR whose taking those 2s or FTs. The more minutes you have poor shooters or players on the floor, the numbers don't get better, they get worse.

Even if RU just splits the remaining 4 games, they would have finished the B1G regular season with JWill starting and RU would have a winning record with him starting (assumed 6-5, so far 4-3 since he started playing). Add Dylan and Ace to that and I don't see RU finishing under .500 in conference next year. I have bigger goals than 10-10 in B1G play.

It's not J Will's shooting that has helped, it's his rebounding and ability to move the ball and foul shooting that have helped. He's in the bottom 30% in the country in true shooting % and his effective FG% is even worse.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

As offensive efficiency numbers have ballooned across the country from where they were just a few years ago 3s are much more crucial going forward.

This is why our shot quality is such a problem. Needs to be corrected.

I’m not saying 3s aren’t helpful. Obviously you get 50% more credit for making them so that’s huge. But for a team that plays our style - scoring droughts are arguably a bigger issue than lack of great 3 point shooting. 5th worst overall shooting percentage in NCAA gets corrected with better 3 point shooting, but that’s not the only way. Getting guys who can finish lay ups better and penetrate would be a huge help too.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

As offensive efficiency numbers have ballooned across the country from where they were just a few years ago 3s are much more crucial going forward.

This is why our shot quality is such a problem. Needs to be corrected.

this is definitely true

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

This 100%. Our 3 point shooting stinks, but it’s possible to have a good team that doesn’t shoot the 3 ball well.

For perspective - ESPN data only goes back to 2002-03. Only one time in the 21 year span from then to now has Rutgers put a lower percentage of shots in the basket than this season. That year, 2006-07 we won a grand total of 9 D1 games.

You can have a good team without shooting 3 pointers well, but you have to shoot a decent percentage on 2s. This team doesn't even do that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You can have a good team without shooting 3 pointers well, but you have to shoot a decent percentage on 2s. This team doesn't even do that.

Yes - it’s impossible to say how many more wins this team would have if you held our 3 point shooting constant but shot the 2s with similar success to prior seasons. I do think it would he significant though.

 

[RAC’emUp]

In the middle of the open practice Pike yelled to the players: “Defense is who we are.” That about sums it up. I doubt we’ll ever be as high as the top half in any kind of offensive efficiency or scoring rating.

 

[DHajekRC84]

In the middle of the open practice Pike yelled to the players: “Defense is who we are.” That about sums it up. I doubt we’ll ever be as high as the top half in any kind of offensive efficiency or scoring rating.

Lol..top half.. we're 325 plus. Show me a year of last 6 we're better than 175. .

 

[DHajekRC84]

I just saw the thread and was wondering if someone was going to call out hawk.
To add, Hawk:
#1. You do remember saying in multiple threads that we weren’t going to miss Cam because GG was going to shoot as well as Cam this year from 3?
#2. Do you mind breaking down the 2023-2024 three-point shooting into “Cam” separate from “RU not including Cam”?
#3. Let’s pretend Cam had 1 more year of eligibility and he wanted to come back here for a reasonable figure (e.g., what he’s getting this year) and we have the money. Do you want him back?

Man, I would LOVE to get real and succinct answers to these questions Hawk. Thanks!

Broker not Fiduciary.

 

[fluoxetine]

Lol..top half.. we're 325 plus. Show me a year of last 6 we're better than 175. .

The last time we were worse than 175th was 2017-18

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

The last time we were worse than 175th was 2017-18

Exactly - again, everyone continues to lose sight of how bad our offense is this year on a relative basis to Pike’s other teams.

 

[S_Janowski]

The guy who was ready to chase Cam Spencer off the team is now asking that we improve our 3 point shooting the rest of the way . . .

Let’s not forget this is OP’s 2nd thread this week about 3pt shooting.

Cam Spencer wouldn’t help our 3pt woes though - it’s all Mag’s fault!!!!!!!

 

[Bobbydigital_83]

Wild to imply you don’t won’t Mag next year. He’s not the reason we suck this year. Him being at
times the 2nd or 3rd scoring option on the floor is.
Also hate to say it, but Pike buys the groceries and we’ve historically been a bad to average 3 point shooting team. We are play this way by design but simply don’t have the horses/scorers from previous years. We’re asking everyone to play 1 level above their talent.

 

[FastMJ]

Incidentally, Minnesota shot 70% from three tonight and made 14 threes in a losing effort by giving up more than a hundred points to Illinois. Incredible box score for a game that didn’t go to OT…