Exactly. Derek has great natural physical ability that you can’t teach. His biggest weakness has been making open shots and finishing at the rim. Making layups will improve with better strength. The shotmaking is more difficult to predict, but if he keeps on working at it that will improve too. What we really need to see from Simpson is a couple of consecutive good shooting and floor games. That has yet to happen this year in Big 10 play. Let’s see if he can perform at a high level again at Maryland Tues. night. A bunch of players had good games at Michigan - Mag, Cliff, Williams - but Simpson is the straw that stirs the team. If he can elevate his shot making RU has a much better chance to win
The enigma that is Derek Simpson
- Thread starter knight82
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I would disagree only because and I realize it is only 1 game but JWilliams allowed Derek to relax , and do what he does best… slash and disrupt on Defense. J Williams is the piece we needed to replace somewhat what we lost in Paul and Cam. He got people involved Omoruyi, Mag etc. If that continues we have a fighters chance these last 10 regular season games . Rutgers needs no less than 5 -5 prefer 6 but that is unlikely from who we play.
The Buie comparison is pretty good, and shows that talented players can improve shooting percentages each year. Here are Buie’s stats.
| GP | GS | MIN | FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 26 | 11 | 25.0 | 3.7-9.8 | 37.6 | 1.2-4.2 | 28.2 | 1.8-2.5 | 70.8 | 0.2 | 2.0 | 2.1 | 2.4 | 0.1 | 0.7 | 2.3 | 1.8 | 10.3 |
| 24 | 20 | 26.9 | 3.4-9.3 | 36.9 | 1.7-4.8 | 36.0 | 1.8-2.3 | 78.2 | 0.3 | 2.0 | 2.3 | 4.0 | 0.0 | 0.6 | 2.2 | 2.0 | 10.3 |
| 31 | 30 | 29.5 | 4.8-12.0 | 39.7 | 2.0-5.9 | 34.1 | 2.5-3.2 | 79.6 | 0.5 | 2.1 | 2.5 | 4.3 | 0.1 | 0.8 | 1.9 | 1.9 | 14.1 |
| 34 | 34 | 34.9 | 5.9-14.4 | 40.6 | 1.9-5.9 | 31.8 | 3.7-4.3 | 86.9 | 0.6 | 2.9 | 3.4 | 4.5 | 0.1 | 1.1 | 2.0 | 2.4 | 17.3 |
| 22 | 22 | 36.5 | 6.5-14.6 | 44.1 | 2.2-5.6 | 39.8 |
Now Buie was never as bad as Simpson’s 33% this year, but he went from 37.6% (28.2% threes) and has basically steadily improved on a straight line his overall shooting percentage each year, while his 3-pt percentage improved his second year, dipped his third and fourth years, but now increased substantially to almost 40% in his fifth year.The Buie comparison is pretty good, and shows that talented players can improve shooting percentages each year. Here are Buie’s stats.
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 26 11 25.0 3.7-9.8 37.6 1.2-4.2 28.2 1.8-2.5 70.8 0.2 2.0 2.1 2.4 0.1 0.7 2.3 1.8 10.3 24 20 26.9 3.4-9.3 36.9 1.7-4.8 36.0 1.8-2.3 78.2 0.3 2.0 2.3 4.0 0.0 0.6 2.2 2.0 10.3 31 30 29.5 4.8-12.0 39.7 2.0-5.9 34.1 2.5-3.2 79.6 0.5 2.1 2.5 4.3 0.1 0.8 1.9 1.9 14.1 34 34 34.9 5.9-14.4 40.6 1.9-5.9 31.8 3.7-4.3 86.9 0.6 2.9 3.4 4.5 0.1 1.1 2.0 2.4 17.3 22 22 36.5 6.5-14.6 44.1 2.2-5.6 39.8
I think Simpson has similar talents to Buie. Let’s hope he can have a similar trajectory.
Simpson hasn't been inconsistent shooting the ball this season. He's been consistently bad unfortunately. The lowest effective FG % of any P5 guard since 2008. You don't have that record unless you consistently shoot poorly
Yesterday's game was only his 3rd game all season over 40% from the field. 21 games into the season!
He has more games under 20% (4) than over 40%
Simpson has 11 games under 30%... that's more than half the games! Horrendous shooting
Let's see if he can put two good shooting games in a row before we even start talking about this as a trend. I really hope he can, but it just seems unlikely he will ever be an efficient shooter. Eliminating the extra terrible nights <20% is mandatory. If he can be inconsistent but rotate a good game in once every few games instead of once every 7 games that would seem to be a more realistic goal that he should be able to achieve
It's a shame bc the effort is there. The rebounding has been much improved. Recently looks to be seeing the floor and passing better. Simpson looked a bit more under control so maybe the game is slowing down for him and he can make a massive jump forward. The end of this season is huge for him. Need to see improved play consistently to be able to feel comfortable relying on him next season
Yesterday's game was only his 3rd game all season over 40% from the field. 21 games into the season!
He has more games under 20% (4) than over 40%
Simpson has 11 games under 30%... that's more than half the games! Horrendous shooting
Let's see if he can put two good shooting games in a row before we even start talking about this as a trend. I really hope he can, but it just seems unlikely he will ever be an efficient shooter. Eliminating the extra terrible nights <20% is mandatory. If he can be inconsistent but rotate a good game in once every few games instead of once every 7 games that would seem to be a more realistic goal that he should be able to achieve
It's a shame bc the effort is there. The rebounding has been much improved. Recently looks to be seeing the floor and passing better. Simpson looked a bit more under control so maybe the game is slowing down for him and he can make a massive jump forward. The end of this season is huge for him. Need to see improved play consistently to be able to feel comfortable relying on him next season
Without Simpson we probably don’t win that game yesterday. Give him time, he’s only a sophomore and still developing. There’s more to what a player brings to the table than narrowly focusing on shooting pct. He can have a bad shooting day and still be a net positive to the team.
At least he’s an upgrade over 5th yr senior Mulcahy. To show how shooting pct doesn’t tell the whole story, Mulcahy is shooting 50% but in the same min per game is only scoring 6.4 PPG and similar assists per game while Simpson is almost at 10ppg not to mention his defense, ball handling, ability to run the break, ability to attack the defense in the half court, etc.
Patience? A membership drive targeted at teenage girls would bring more emotional stability to this board.
You could take the word probably out. They lose the game without him. One reason His shooting percentage is low is because there are not a lot of options offensively and he has the ability to create his own shot, hence all too often when shot clock running down, he is the option
Geo and Corey found themselves in late-clock iso situations more often than Derek and weren't nearly so woeful. Derek does a lot really well, but he's unconditionally one of the worst shooters in college basketball
Unfortunately Derek probably has a low SD compared to most. Thats the sad part.
Derek has some many good qualities, will be an important piece in next year’s rotation. I think he just needs to understand the level of practice needed to improve his shooting.
As he gets better, confidence will go up.
As he gets better, confidence will go up.
We were enamored with Gavin the game before. Finally ‘turned the corner’. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves with Simpson. He had a very good game. We know he’s not a good shooter or distributor generally.
What I’m hoping for going forward, and what we don’t already know, is….will the team finally click with JWill ?
What I’m hoping for going forward, and what we don’t already know, is….will the team finally click with JWill ?
The die has been cast for those RU fans against Simpson because they just are going to be upset because it's not Mulcahy who was very unproductive for extended stretches of the season last year OR because he's not a high 4* kid or a 5* player like Dylan Harper, who no one would argue against.
The overwhelming point of Simpson and his play or shooting percentage, is really the only variable that is keeping him from becoming a pretty good or high caliber contributor. He is more than good enough on defense, provides quickness and able to track down long-rebounds and is able to get to the basket and shoots a very high from the FT line.
The difference between shooting 33% and 39 to 40% from the field is obvious, but the player has to actually be capable or willing to take those shots, vs not taking them or refusing to take them altogether. We had better percentage players like Mulcahy, but their shot totals are so low, that the PPG couldn't climb beyond 6 to 8PPG.
Any way it's looked at, RU needs more PPG from its guards and Simpson is a full time starter for his sophomore season. I don't think anyone expected senior level stats from Simpson, where he shoots 40% from the field, 36% or more from 3 and averages 14PPG, 6 assists and 5 rebounds.
If it's not 14, 6 and 5 rebounds with 2 steals a game for Simpson detractors, then it's not good enough.
The other factor that fans want to ignore is how each player on the floor impacts the others. We saw Cliff struggle in a big way, and that was credited to not having Mawot Mag there to help him on the glass. When Mag returned, he has been inconsistent on the glass and VERY much as inconsistent as the sophomore Simpson has been this year.
Now Mag and Cliff are essentially 2 must have players on defense....that is 100% a FACT, but neither player is capable of generating their own offense and Simpson and the guards need to do more to help Mag and Cliff.
Now, adding Jeremiah Williams, is essentially the same theory of what that does for Simpson.....it takes the pressure off Simpson and allows a player to show him a different way to play.....Simpson plays too fast at times, while JWill seems more methodical and takes his time on decision making. Add Williams gobbling up 5 to 6 rebounds and that's 5 to 6 rebounds that Mag, Simpson Cliff or Hyatt/JMike Davis, don't have to worry about.
Someone who still doesn't get enough credit for being the Batman to Robin, was how Corey Sanders absorbed a ton of criticism and negative comments RU fans, because he couldn't carry a limited scoring roster on his back. But Geo Baker was able to play a LOT of minutes next to Sanders and he was Robin to Corey being or acting as Batman.
I am not saying Simpson becomes a 50% FG shooter and 45% from 3, just because JWill is on the court with him. But it is important to take snapshots of time and context.
What impact does Mag have on Cliff....what impact does JWill have on Simpson and Cliff and Mag?
Lost in the "Simpson needs to shoot better" comments are how many layups Simpson and JWill generated for Hyatt and Mag. I think Hyatts 2 FGs were transition from JWill or the guards and Mags 3 to 4 layups were plays made by Simpson to Mag or JWill/Davis to Mag, setting him up for easy opportunities.
Everyone and their performances are impacted to a certain extent by who you are on the court with and who you may not be on the court with.
The overwhelming point of Simpson and his play or shooting percentage, is really the only variable that is keeping him from becoming a pretty good or high caliber contributor. He is more than good enough on defense, provides quickness and able to track down long-rebounds and is able to get to the basket and shoots a very high from the FT line.
The difference between shooting 33% and 39 to 40% from the field is obvious, but the player has to actually be capable or willing to take those shots, vs not taking them or refusing to take them altogether. We had better percentage players like Mulcahy, but their shot totals are so low, that the PPG couldn't climb beyond 6 to 8PPG.
Any way it's looked at, RU needs more PPG from its guards and Simpson is a full time starter for his sophomore season. I don't think anyone expected senior level stats from Simpson, where he shoots 40% from the field, 36% or more from 3 and averages 14PPG, 6 assists and 5 rebounds.
If it's not 14, 6 and 5 rebounds with 2 steals a game for Simpson detractors, then it's not good enough.
The other factor that fans want to ignore is how each player on the floor impacts the others. We saw Cliff struggle in a big way, and that was credited to not having Mawot Mag there to help him on the glass. When Mag returned, he has been inconsistent on the glass and VERY much as inconsistent as the sophomore Simpson has been this year.
Now Mag and Cliff are essentially 2 must have players on defense....that is 100% a FACT, but neither player is capable of generating their own offense and Simpson and the guards need to do more to help Mag and Cliff.
Now, adding Jeremiah Williams, is essentially the same theory of what that does for Simpson.....it takes the pressure off Simpson and allows a player to show him a different way to play.....Simpson plays too fast at times, while JWill seems more methodical and takes his time on decision making. Add Williams gobbling up 5 to 6 rebounds and that's 5 to 6 rebounds that Mag, Simpson Cliff or Hyatt/JMike Davis, don't have to worry about.
Someone who still doesn't get enough credit for being the Batman to Robin, was how Corey Sanders absorbed a ton of criticism and negative comments RU fans, because he couldn't carry a limited scoring roster on his back. But Geo Baker was able to play a LOT of minutes next to Sanders and he was Robin to Corey being or acting as Batman.
I am not saying Simpson becomes a 50% FG shooter and 45% from 3, just because JWill is on the court with him. But it is important to take snapshots of time and context.
What impact does Mag have on Cliff....what impact does JWill have on Simpson and Cliff and Mag?
Lost in the "Simpson needs to shoot better" comments are how many layups Simpson and JWill generated for Hyatt and Mag. I think Hyatts 2 FGs were transition from JWill or the guards and Mags 3 to 4 layups were plays made by Simpson to Mag or JWill/Davis to Mag, setting him up for easy opportunities.
Everyone and their performances are impacted to a certain extent by who you are on the court with and who you may not be on the court with.
If Derek doesn't hit that game winner v Stonehill our post season chances go from slo
I’ll trade a bunch of Derek’s in game misses for the big game winner v Stonehill any day of the week. That loss would have taken our post season chances from slim to none.
Let’s not hold Simpson to a higher standard than Geo, Corey and Ron. Yes, they had some huge memorable shots but they had some big misses on open looks that could have moved us on in the NCAA tournament as well. I love those guys and will never hold that against them, but let’s keep things in perspective.
I don't see anybody holding Simpson to a "higher standard" than Geo, RHJ, or Corey. None of those players ever shot 33% overall on FGs. Geo was about 39% for his career; Corey was about 40%, and Ron was around 44%.
Geo is the closest comparator since he was never more than a 40% shooter, but he was never as bad as 33%, though he came close (with 35.4% in his sophomore year) once:
| GP | MIN | FG% | 3P% | FT% | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 28 | 34.4 | 39.8 | 33.1 | 74.1 | 2.1 | 3.9 | 0.4 | 1.2 | 1.5 | 1.6 | 12.6 |
| 25 | 31.2 | 40.9 | 30.3 | 75.0 | 3.1 | 3.2 | 0.4 | 1.2 | 2.2 | 1.7 | 10.4 |
| 28 | 28.9 | 39.9 | 28.0 | 77.2 | 3.0 | 3.5 | 0.6 | 1.1 | 2.0 | 1.8 | 10.9 |
| 31 | 34.0 | 35.4 | 34.1 | 74.1 | 3.1 | 4.1 | 0.5 | 1.6 | 1.9 | 3.0 | 12.2 |
| 33 | 31.6 | 38.0 | 36.1 | 78.5 | 2.2 | 2.6 | 0.4 | 1.1 | 2.1 | 1.7 | 10.8 |
Here's Corey:
| GP | MIN | FG% | 3P% | FT% | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 34 | 33.1 | 40.1 | 22.4 | 70.8 | 4.3 | 3.1 | 0.3 | 1.3 | 1.6 | 2.2 | 15.2 |
| 33 | 30.4 | 38.2 | 26.6 | 61.3 | 3.2 | 3.2 | 0.5 | 1.3 | 1.9 | 2.7 | 12.8 |
| 27 | 33.4 | 42.3 | 31.5 | 71.3 | 3.3 | 4.3 | 0.2 | 1.8 | 1.7 | 3.1 | 15.9 |
Here's Ron:
| GP | GS | MIN | FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 31 | 18 | 22.4 | 2.8-6.9 | 41.3 | 1.0-3.5 | 27.8 | 1.2-1.7 | 67.9 | 0.5 | 2.6 | 3.1 | 1.1 | 0.5 | 0.6 | 2.4 | 0.9 | 7.8 |
| 31 | 31 | 28.1 | 4.4-9.8 | 45.2 | 1.2-3.5 | 34.9 | 2.0-2.9 | 70.8 | 1.2 | 4.6 | 5.8 | 1.0 | 0.8 | 0.8 | 1.9 | 1.1 | 12.1 |
| 27 | 27 | 32.0 | 5.4-12.3 | 44.1 | 1.7-5.4 | 31.0 | 2.4-3.2 | 73.6 | 1.0 | 4.9 | 5.9 | 1.6 | 0.6 | 0.7 | 1.9 | 1.1 | 14.9 |
| 32 | 32 | 34.3 | 5.3-12.1 | 44.2 | 2.1-5.3 | 39.8 | 3.0-3.8 | 79.5 | 1.3 | 4.6 | 5.9 | 1.9 | 0.6 | 1.0 | 2.0 | 1.6 | 15.8 |
Simpson is getting a fair shake on this board. I think most people acknowledge that he is a plus rebounder; a developing distributor (poor in early season, better recently); has a "clutch" gene that not many of our current players have, but which Geo, Ron, and Corey had in spades; is a great foul shooter; but is simply a bad shooter from the field, to the tune of 33% overall this season through 21 games (a large sample size), but one who can get hot occasionally, but not often enough. Here are Simpson's stats:
| GP | MIN | FG% | 3P% | FT% | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 21 | 25.5 | 33.3 | 30.6 | 84.5 | 3.5 | 3.2 | 0.1 | 1.2 | 1.1 | 1.8 | 9.8 |
| 34 | 20.1 | 37.4 | 21.7 | 79.3 | 1.6 | 1.5 | 0.1 | 0.8 | 1.2 | 0.9 | 7.1 |
"Fair shake on this board" ... really?
"Geo is the closest comparator since he was never more than a 40% shooter, but he was never as bad as 33%, though he came close (with 35.4% in his sophomore year) once:" Exactly my point, Geo shot 35% his sophomore year. That's exactly 2 more shots out of every 100 than Derek ... essentially the same. If you extrapolate Derek's stats to the the same minutes his production is either at or better than Geo's. Did Geo ever get heat for his "efficiency"? I don't think so. Stop comparing Derek's sophomore stats to other players Junior, senior and 5th year senior stats. Yes, don't hold him to a higher standard.
NO. his inability to pass (and shot selection) when penetrating hurts us maybe more than his shooting. The pass JWill made to Cliff has been there all year and results in a 100% 2 point shot.
Simpson on the defense end more than checks all my boxes.
You ignored the rest of my post where I summarized all of the good aspects of Simpson's performance. Perhaps you also missed my earlier post in this thread wherein I cited to Boo Buie's stats and stated that Simpson has similar talent and that I hoped Simpson could improve like Buie has.
Fair point about not comparing Simpson's 2nd year stats to other players' stats from years 3-5, but I also cited to their 1st and 2nd year stats. And 2nd year or no, there's really very little defense to pointing out that a "shooting guard" shoots 33% from the field. Yes, he helps in the other ways I cited, but this one stat is very hard to overcome.
And by the way, Geo absolutely was criticized on this board for his sometimes-poor offensive efficiency. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Geo was almost as polarizing a figure during his tenure here as Simpson has become this year.
Also will be an upperclassmen leader on next years team. I’m excited to see what he can do with a high IQ court general like Dylan putting him in position to be successful.
Even before Sunday I'd play Simpson much more than Davis who seems more of a chucker and not interested in finding open teammates.
Ball in his hands still with 12-13 seconds left on the shot clock and he's already signaling to teammates he's going to put it up. Selfishness and ego together.
Ball in his hands still with 12-13 seconds left on the shot clock and he's already signaling to teammates he's going to put it up. Selfishness and ego together.
Buie comparison is not good. I would actually feel better if Simpson was shooting as many threes as Buie did early in his career. Buie always had confidence in his outside shot. It appears even the best version of Simpson is going to be heavily reliant on inefficient step backs.
Willingness to shoot threes actually corresponds with future percentage. Simpson's ceiling as a three point shooter looks like fringe-medium volume with average success.
Buie was also a better passer early in his career.
Willingness to shoot threes actually corresponds with future percentage. Simpson's ceiling as a three point shooter looks like fringe-medium volume with average success.
Buie was also a better passer early in his career.
Newsflash. He is point guard / point forward who will have the ball in his hands more than any other player on the court.
Is that based on what you want him to be or is it at all based on how he is used now?
Geo wasn’t the point guard on his HS team either. Most HS teams have smaller point guards. Didn’t Dylan lead the USA team in assists?
I have watched at least 5-6 of his high level games and especially the close ones that go back and forth. He might not bring the ball up but it immediately gets in his hands and he operates , drives , fishes or shoots. He will cook with Ace and mesh incredibly well. Even if Derek , JMike or JWill bring the ball upcourt , he will act as the point forward , shooting guard. Especially on the fast break , he has to be found and let him operate. Now I know he doesn’t play in the BIG 10 yet , but doubtful he will miss anywhere close to the layups our guards do and most likely will finished at the rim.
I am very confident of your last sentence. He is explosive and has very good body awareness/coordination
I noticed for the first time Derek made an adjustment ( or I just missed it before ) where he followed thru with his shot with full bending of the wrist downward on the follow thru. Curious if others saw it too because I do not remember him being that pronounced with the shooting form when he was having those brutal shooting games . He has been off balance , partially not set with his feet or positioned incorrectly . When he released those jumpers Saturday they looked good the second it left his hand. Wondering if anyone has the time to do the comparison with his shooting form prior to Saturday versus Saturday ?
Also some good strides on the break getting it to Mag and Hyatt on the break . Maybe Jeremiah ‘s passing made Derek realize how important it is to get his teammates that are running with him the ball instead of being a shoot first guard . Saw progress there as well. He can get the ball to Cliff at will if he makes it a priority. That makes us a much better offensively efficient team. Maybe the horrible shooting at the rim improves dramatically
. Same applies to JMike. He has to give the ball up to Cliff when drinking hard. Has to stop the shoot first mentality from high school. He isn’t getting away with that at this level.
Also some good strides on the break getting it to Mag and Hyatt on the break . Maybe Jeremiah ‘s passing made Derek realize how important it is to get his teammates that are running with him the ball instead of being a shoot first guard . Saw progress there as well. He can get the ball to Cliff at will if he makes it a priority. That makes us a much better offensively efficient team. Maybe the horrible shooting at the rim improves dramatically
. Same applies to JMike. He has to give the ball up to Cliff when drinking hard. Has to stop the shoot first mentality from high school. He isn’t getting away with that at this level.
He’s a combo guard and possesses an incredibly high basketball IQ (much like his brother). He’s widely lauded by scouts for his instincts, his skill as a facilitator who can also attack the rim at will. He takes the most pride in making his team better.
Whether or not he brings the ball up court, he will be running next years offense.
Disagree. Simpson creates mostly good open looks. Creating an open shot isn't his problem. It's making it
I would caution against the Buie comparisons. It seems more like finding one outlier as an example and hoping that Simpson is another outlier. If you were to go back and look at all players who were ranked near dead last in efficiency in P5 and follow their careers, it's likely most never becomes efficient shooters
Simpson’s effort is great. He has taken his rebounding to a great level especially considering his slight frame. We have seen a few sweet passes turn into even more consistent better play with his head up looking to distribute. Not having that one track mind to score will likely improve his efficiency bc he will see the court better, have the game slow down, and force less shots
He really needs to just shoot better. Yes, it's just one aspect of the game but it's a hugeee part of the game especially if you're going to take double digit shot attempts
Last game was massive, but we need to see that on at least a semi regular bases not a few times all season. If Derek can finish strong these last 10 games or so, there is every reason to be bullish on him moving forward. If he continues to struggle the remainder of the season and the last game was a flash in the pan... I'm not sure how realistic it will be to expect a big turnaround in year 3. It would seem to be more wishcasting than forecasting at that point