Baserunning (10th Inning Mets / Yanks)

[Shelby65]

Anyone see the end of the game ? Mets runner on second, fly ball to deep right, baserunner unsure if ball would be caught so he didn’t ‘go halfway’ and instead stayed near the base until the ball landed near the right-center fence. And he did score from second, although there was an attempt to throw him out at home.

Even though it didn’t matter since he scored, the Announcers repeatedly criticized the baserunner for not ‘going halfway’. Sure, since the ball dropped he would have scored easily if he did ‘go halfway’ on the long fly.

But is that right ? If the ball is deep enough to tag up and advance, don’t you want to stay on the base until the ball is caught ?

If he went halfway and the ball was caught he’d have to go back and couldn’t tag up to third, nevermind score.

Shouldn’t you only ‘go halfway’ if the ball is hit too shallow to tag up if it’s caught ?

 

[ScooterSports]

He probably just thought the ball would be caught, but the Yankees outfield play wasn’t great yesterday so it landed. Outfielders arms are good enough that if you’re halfway and the ball is caught, you got virtually no shot tagging up unless there’s a mistake.
Call is basically on the runner in that situation, if he thinks it’s getting caught, you stay closer to the bag. If he thinks it’s gonna drop, go halfway.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Anyone see the end of the game ? Mets runner on second, fly ball to deep right, baserunner unsure if ball would be caught so he didn’t ‘go halfway’ and instead stayed near the base until the ball landed near the right-center fence. And he did score from second, although there was an attempt to throw him out at home.

Even though it didn’t matter since he scored, the Announcers repeatedly criticized the baserunner for not ‘going halfway’. Sure, since the ball dropped he would have scored easily if he did ‘go halfway’ on the long fly.

But is that right ? If the ball is deep enough to tag up and advance, don’t you want to stay on the base until the ball is caught ?

If he went halfway and the ball was caught he’d have to go back and couldn’t tag up to third, nevermind score.

Shouldn’t you only ‘go halfway’ if the ball is hit too shallow to tag up if it’s caught ?

The way I was taught- you go halfway on a deep ball, not a short one, as they can always double you off if you go halfway on a shallow flyball. On a deep one, by the time you get halfway, you should be able to look back and see if it looks like a catch - Strat going back to tag or see it will drop and just walk on in.

 

[Shelby65]

The way I was taught- you go halfway on a deep ball, not a short one, as they can always double you off if you go halfway on a shallow flyball. On a deep one, by the time you get halfway, you should be able to look back and see if it looks like a catch - Strat going back to tag or see it will drop and just walk on in.

But on the deep ball to right center, you wouldn’t be able to tag if you have to run back to the base first.

 

[Plum Street]

Yeah there was one out so he needed to be halfway .
Tagging up to get to third with two outs instead of going halfway was not the right play.

 

[Shelby65]

Plum...I see your logic (1 out), but then doesn't the speed of the runner matter ? Not every runner can score from second on most singles.

 

[RW90]

I think the announcers were correct criticizing the runner for not going halfway and choosing to focus on the assumed catch and tag up. While the runner scored anyway and the broadcast cameras didn't show the throw, it was mentioned somewhere that the throw from Torres was weak hearted and almost resigned to surrendering the run. It sounded like a better relay might have had a chance on the out at home.

 

[Plum Street]

Plum...I see your logic (1 out), but then doesn't the speed of the runner matter ? Not every runner can score from second on most singles.

I am pretty sure it’s traditional baseball logic. Never make the first or third out at third base . But a second out there is sometimes worth the risk .
@zappaa would know

 

[Shelby65]

I think the announcers were correct criticizing the runner for not going halfway and choosing to focus on the assumed catch and tag up. While the runner scored anyway and the broadcast cameras didn't show the throw, it was mentioned somewhere that the throw from Torres was weak hearted and almost resigned to surrendering the run. It sounded like a better relay might have had a chance on the out at home.

Yes in hindsight. But if the ball was caught he would not have been able to tag up if he went halfway.

Plum says (I think), that with two outs it is unlikely to matter if the runner is on second or third. I do get that, But it matters for a slow runner.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Speaking of more baserunning, I couldn't believe Sal Licata of SNY blamed Vientos for Nimmo being caught rounding 2nd too far and gettng called out trying to get back. I turned it off before hearing any possible explanation as to why.

 

[FrankZ_RU93]

Yeah there was one out so he needed to be halfway .
Tagging up to get to third with two outs instead of going halfway was not the right play.

Yep. 1 out made this an awful blunder.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Yes in hindsight. But if the ball was caught he would not have been able to tag up if he went halfway.

Plum says (I think), that with two outs it is unlikely to matter if the runner is on second or third. I do get that, But it matters for a slow runner.

Escobar is not a slow runner though.

 

[Plum Street]

Yep. 1 out made this an awful blunder.

Right . If no outs, you can see the runner’s logic

 

[yesrutgers01]

Yeah there was one out so he needed to be halfway .
Tagging up to get to third with two outs instead of going halfway was not the right play.

ahhhh- was not thinking of the outs

 

[nutfromSEC117]

2 outs Escobar would score on a hit
No need to tag up .

I was confused why Yankees threw the ball home and they weren’t showing Escobar scoring , then camera Pans to home plate and there is almost a tag play.

 

[Retired711]

The rule of thumb is never to risk making the third out at third. The reason is that the chances of scoring from second with two out are pretty much the same as from third and you don't want to run yourself out of having a runner in scoring position. (Remember that with two outs the runner at second can break on contact, so he will score on virtually any hit to the outfield.) Yes, there are a number of events that can score a runner from third but not second(for instance, a wild pitch/passed ball or an infield hit), but they are low-probability events.

 

[Retired711]

The rule of thumb is never to risk making the third out at third. The reason is that the chances of scoring from second with two out are pretty much the same as from third and you don't want to run yourself out of having a runner in scoring position. (Remember that with two outs the runner at second can break on contact, so he will score on virtually any hit to the outfield.) Yes, there are a number of events that can score a runner from third but not second(for instance, a wild pitch/passed ball or an infield hit), but they are low-probability events.

Let me add that I once saw a runner score from second on a sacrifice fly. This was in Chicago's old Comiskey Park (home of the White Sox for decades) which had a cavernous center field. The runner was not a speed merchant, but was instead Don Kessinger, the White Sox's veteran (37 years old) player manager. Perhaps the same thing happened in the old Yankee Stadium or the Polo Grounds, both of which also had huge center fields. BTW, the night I saw it at Comiskey was the night before the disastrous Disco Demolition night that did so much to hurt the field and the franchise.

 

[RUaMoose_rivals]

I got picked off first on Tuesday night. Batter hit a line drive toward shortstop. Looked to me like a hit to me so I took a few steps towards 2nd. SS caught it & doubled me up. Next time up got a hit & they sent a pinch runner out for me. Kinda embarrassing

 

[Shelby65]

I got picked off first on Tuesday night. Batter hit a line drive toward shortstop. Looked to me like a hit to me so I took a few steps towards 2nd. SS caught it & doubled me up. Next time up got a hit & they sent a pinch runner out for me. Kinda embarrassing

The rule of thumb is never to risk making the third out at third. The reason is that the chances of scoring from second with two out are pretty much the same as from third and you don't want to run yourself out of having a runner in scoring position. (Remember that with two outs the runner at second can break on contact, so he will score on virtually any hit to the outfield.) Yes, there are a number of events that can score a runner from third but not second(for instance, a wild pitch/passed ball or an infield hit), but they are low-probability events.

711 and Plum-Most times, yes, runners on either second or third may both score on a single. But, in a walk off (extra innings) scenario, outfield plays in, just like they did with one out on the play in question.
I would suggest a runner on second might not score on a single in this case.

 

[Scarlet4Shore]

I would have had the runner on second tagging up. The outfielder was going back on the ball, so even if he made the catch, the runner would have gotten to third easily.

 

[Retired711]

711 and Plum-Most times, yes, runners on either second or third may both score on a single. But, in a walk off (extra innings) scenario, outfield plays in, just like they did with one out on the play in question.
I would suggest a runner on second might not score on a single in this case.

In my experience, in a walk-off situation the outfield plays in only if there is a runner on third with less than two out. That's because the runner will score on a deep fly ball even if it's caught. But if there's a runner on second, the outfield can move in only a step or two at the most because the outfielders can't let a deep fly fall in.

If there's a runner on second and one out, a lot depends on how deep the ball is hit and the chance that the ball will drop in. If the ball is hit deep and clearly is going to be caught, it makes sense to tag and at least draw the throw to third.