OT: Getting Attic Insulated

Postman_1

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Mar 12, 2017
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Has anyone gotten there attic insulated recently? I just had a company here (Master Attic) give me an estimate for removing old insulation and installing new insulation. I currently have an older insulation that is about 4", the new stuff would be a Owens Corning R30 16". The reason I am considering having this done is a few weeks ago when we had the rapid temp change on Christmas Eve from 55F to 8F a few days after I noticed some marks on my ceiling in spots where it meets the wall. My roof is not that old so I dont think thats the problem. I was thinking this was from condensation? When I was in my attic I did notice some of the baffles not properly installed and some gaps in insulation. Also if I felt the nails coming through the roof they had moisture on them.

Looking for any feedback if anyone had this done recently.
 
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JayDogSmooth

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Has anyone gotten there attic insulated recently? I just had a company here (Master Attic) give me an estimate for removing old insulation and installing new insulation. I currently have an older insulation that is about 4", the new stuff would be a Owens Corning R30 16". The reason I am considering having this done is a few weeks ago when we had the rapid temp change on Christmas Eve from 55F to 8F a few days after I noticed some marks on my ceiling in spots where it meets the wall. My roof is not that old so I dont think thats the problem. I was thinking this was from condensation? When I was in my attic I did notice some of the baffles not properly installed and some gaps in insulation. Also if I felt the nails coming through the roof they had moisture on them.

Looking for any feedback if anyone had this done recently.
How much did they quote ?
 

Postman_1

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How much did they quote ?
It was for $5,800. That includes removal of old stuff, some is under plywood, vacuuming the area then spraying a disinfectant, spray foam all gaps and installing the new insulation and baffles. He said I may be able to get it down closer to $5000 if I book this week. Obviously this is a sale ploy. About 1300 sq ft
 

T2Kplus20

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May 1, 2007
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Sounds like you need to address the moisture problem first. Could be an improper construction, roofing materials failure, etc. That's beyond just insulation.
+1 - Sounds like it may be a different issue (that new insulation may not fix).
 
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ashokan

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May 3, 2011
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Winter air is usually drier (like most people's skin in winter)
Do you have moisture on windows?
Good ridge/soffit vents etc?
Where stains are on re-entrant angles (wall/ceiling intersects) are the walls exterior?
If so did you clean your gutters - any frozen water in gutters?
Did roofers install snow/ice barrier?
If you have a specific-location, moisture problem in winter I don't see where insulation would fix that
 

Postman_1

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Sounds like you need to address the moisture problem first. Could be an improper construction, roofing materials failure, etc. That's beyond just insulation.
I used a IR camera and scanned around my ceilings. The areas that got moisture was the areas were the insulation was poor. But it could also be beyond just that like you said. I may get a roofer to take a look.
 

RobertG

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No sure about the spots, but I got a quote for roughly the same area for 4000. Why get rid of the old insulation
 

Postman_1

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Mar 12, 2017
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Winter air is usually drier (like most people's skin in winter)
Do you have moisture on windows?
Good ridge/soffit vents etc?
Where stains are on re-entrant angles (wall/ceiling intersects) are the walls exterior?
If so did you clean your gutters - any frozen water in gutters?
Did roofers install snow/ice barrier?
If you have a specific-location, moisture problem in winter I don't see where insulation would fix that
Do you have moisture on windows? Yes I notice moisture on bottom of window glass saw some this morning.
Good ridge/soffit vents etc? The soffits are new, I got new siding a few years back. Some of the baffles are not properly installed.
Where stains are on re-entrant angles (wall/ceiling intersects) are the walls exterior? Yes, that location were they intersect.
If so did you clean your gutters - any frozen water in gutters? I have gutter guards and this could be the cause of the problem. The last time it happened was a few years ago when I saw about 3-4" of ice built up on top of gutter. This time no ice build-up just the flash freeze.
Did roofers install snow/ice barrier? Not sure roof was installed around 2012, I moved into house in 2014.
 

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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Has anyone gotten there attic insulated recently? I just had a company here (Master Attic) give me an estimate for removing old insulation and installing new insulation. I currently have an older insulation that is about 4", the new stuff would be a Owens Corning R30 16". The reason I am considering having this done is a few weeks ago when we had the rapid temp change on Christmas Eve from 55F to 8F a few days after I noticed some marks on my ceiling in spots where it meets the wall. My roof is not that old so I dont think thats the problem. I was thinking this was from condensation? When I was in my attic I did notice some of the baffles not properly installed and some gaps in insulation. Also if I felt the nails coming through the roof they had moisture on them.

Looking for any feedback if anyone had this done recently.
I'm posting a link and some info from a pretty good website. In short, it sounds like you may have a ventilation issue. Your attic should be cool in the winter. Ideally, your soffit vents should be in flow communication with your ridge vent(s) or gable vents so that there is an adequate flow of air from low to high. You said that some baffles were improperly installed. This happens a lot, or when someone does work in the attic or adds insulation to fix a problem, they may exacerbate the problem.

We have a very low pitched roof, and we had insulation banked up to the soffits, blocking the flow of air. It took some crappy work, but I basically made my own baffles with 5/4 X 3" X 8' furring strips. They are cheap. I took two or three strips and patted down the insulation, and in some cases "pried" the insulation down to let the air from the soffits to flow up to the ridge vents. That cured the problem in our case.

You should also check all of your ceiling penetrations, particularly high hat/recessed lights to see how much warm air is getting into your attic from your living space. Another issue we had was that the old owner vented the bathroom fan into the attic. Check to see your bathroom vent fans and other vents (dryer, if applicable) are not leaking warm/moist air into the attic.

It seems from other posts you are fairly handy. An insulation company will sell you insulation, and they may not address the basic issue of ventilation and the attic breathing. you can put more insulation where you need it for a lot less.

Long post from link below:

Water Spots on the Ceiling But No Roof Leak?​

You’ve inspected your attic and have not found any evidence of a roof leak. Let’s talk ventilation.

The issue could stem from vented fans, heat loss, or improperly ventilated appliances. Any of these can create the perfect mix of moisture for your home to develop condensation stains.

Properly Vented Attic​

If you notice any condensation inside your attic then you are experiencing a ventilation issue. This could stem from ice dams to other ventilation issues. With condensation present in your attic, there needs to be a remedy to remove it before real problems start to set in.

The condensation could appear from frost forming in your attic. Frost can form when warm, humid air finds its way into the attic space. This could come from improper venting of appliances into the attic space or an air leak where heat can get into the attic. This could be with the chimney, ceiling light fixtures, plumbing, and more.

Appliances Vented​

You might have had an experience where someone “fixes” a problem but in all reality, they are making a much larger mess than before. Appliance venting can easily fall into this category. Always consult the instructions for proper venting techniques and always read up on code requirements to ensure that you are keeping your home safe.

Cooktop Exhaust​

Cooktop ventilation depends on state code requirements so please consult your local code to ensure that you are venting properly. However, under no circumstances should your stove vent into the attic. The vent will push hot and humid air into the attic and will cause mold damage. The hot air will keep your attic warm. This will create condensation on your ductwork and create a condensation stain randomly in your house.

Dryer Venting into the Attic​

A dryer vent can go through the attic and exit through the wall or roof. A clothes dryer vent cannot end in the attic. This means that most code does not allow for a dryer to pump hot air into the attic. The air that is removed from your clothes dryer is damp and hot. Your attic will develop mold and will rot the framing.

Bathroom Exhaust Ventilation​

Is the bathroom air hot? Yes.

Is the air humid? Big time.

Should it vent into the attic? Absolutely not.

All bathroom exhaust needs to exit outside of your home.


 

ashokan

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May 3, 2011
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Do you have moisture on windows? Yes I notice moisture on bottom of window glass saw some this morning.
Good ridge/soffit vents etc? The soffits are new, I got new siding a few years back. Some of the baffles are not properly installed.
Where stains are on re-entrant angles (wall/ceiling intersects) are the walls exterior? Yes, that location were they intersect.
If so did you clean your gutters - any frozen water in gutters? I have gutter guards and this could be the cause of the problem. The last time it happened was a few years ago when I saw about 3-4" of ice built up on top of gutter. This time no ice build-up just the flash freeze.
Did roofers install snow/ice barrier? Not sure roof was installed around 2012, I moved into house in 2014.

I had the same freeze but no precip - assumed same for you but I wasn't in NJ
That's why I thought about frozen water in the gutters (common after the fall)
Ice can get under shingles, into nail holes when melting etc.
Ice is heavy and can loosen fasteners and water gets in easier (you mentioned wet nails - near the edges?)
Ice and snow shield is 36" wide and just goes around edges of roof (sketchers sometimes skip installation).
If you get ice dams regular then adding insulation to weak spots can help but dont need to replace everything.
I would check the gutters before anything else
 
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RUinPinehurst

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Aug 27, 2011
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I had the same freeze but no precip - assumed same for you but I wasn't in NJ
That's why I thought about frozen water in the gutters (common after the fall)
Ice can get under shingles, into nail holes when melting etc.
Ice is heavy and can loosen fasteners and water gets in easier (you mentioned wet nails - near the edges?)
Ice and snow shield is 36" wide and just goes around edges of roof (sketchers sometimes skip installation).
If you get ice dams regular then adding insulation to weak spots can help but dont need to replace everything.
I would check the gutters before anything else
If you get high winds and frozen precip, the result could be ice build up in the ridge vents. Then when temps rise and thawing occurs, water could find it's way into the attic interior. It happens.
 

ru109

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We got new insulation put in our attic about 8 years ago and there were rebates/incentives to get things like this done.
 

Knight Shift

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We got new insulation put in our attic about 8 years ago and there were rebates/incentives to get things like this done.
IIRC, under one of the new mega bills, home insulation, windows and doors MAY get you tax credits. check the regs and with your accountants.
 

ashokan

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May 3, 2011
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If you get high winds and frozen precip, the result could be ice build up in the ridge vents. Then when temps rise and thawing occurs, water could find it's way into the attic interior. It happens.

Certainly.
Buildings can be like organisms with systemic interactions - sometimes weird ones
I was careful about insulation because with older homes (think historic) that were never built with a lot of ventilation or even plumbing, adding insulation can seal moisture in.
Then the insulation gets wet and the paint peels off outside.
Old buildings breathed through wood shingles, slates, incidental gaps etc.
Insulation and ventilation have to work together
The spray insulation can be good for eaves and such but its also a main culprit in sealing buildings up too tight.
 
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Postman_1

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I'll have to look into any rebates but I dont think there are any. I asked the salesman today he didn't think so either but I will still check. I've been reading a bunch today on it and it seems insulation related. The first time was definitely from ice dams, this time a few weeks ago we had that flash freeze and high winds and it happened again. When its pouring rain everything is fine. When I was in attic today the nails had moisture on them. Ceiling fan in bathroom vents to outside. I'm gonna ask a roofer to take a look as well just for his opinion.

3. Ice Dam Leakage

If stains appear at ceiling corners or outside walls, the most probable cause is ice dam leakage. This happens when insulation in the attic is insufficient. After a heavy rainfall snow may accumulate on the roof and in absence of proper insulation, melts down and shows up as ceiling stains. To spot condensation in your attic, inspect nail heads in the attic. If they are rusted or their sheathing is stained, condensation is the issue.

 

Bagarocks

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Attics need air movement through area. settling air can warm areas where they accumulate creating condensation, (wet nails) moisture spots. make sure soffit vents are clear. Do you have ridge vent?
When I had one installed all my moisture troubles went away.
Ice damming, been there done that can be a real messy problem.
 
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Knight Shift

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I'll have to look into any rebates but I dont think there are any. I asked the salesman today he didn't think so either but I will still check. I've been reading a bunch today on it and it seems insulation related. The first time was definitely from ice dams, this time a few weeks ago we had that flash freeze and high winds and it happened again. When its pouring rain everything is fine. When I was in attic today the nails had moisture on them. Ceiling fan in bathroom vents to outside. I'm gonna ask a roofer to take a look as well just for his opinion.

3. Ice Dam Leakage

If stains appear at ceiling corners or outside walls, the most probable cause is ice dam leakage. This happens when insulation in the attic is insufficient. After a heavy rainfall snow may accumulate on the roof and in absence of proper insulation, melts down and shows up as ceiling stains. To spot condensation in your attic, inspect nail heads in the attic. If they are rusted or their sheathing is stained, condensation is the issue.


Information updated 12/30/2022

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 provides federal tax credits and deductions that empower Americans to make homes and buildings more energy-efficient to help reduce energy costs while reducing demand as we transition to cleaner energy sources.

Savings for Homeowners​

New federal income tax credits are available through 2032 providing up to $3,200 annually to lower the cost of energy efficient home upgrades by up to 30 percent. Improvements such as installing heat pumps, heat pump water heaters, insulation, doors and windows, as well as electrical panel upgrades, home energy audits and more, are covered by the tax credits and can help families save money on their monthly energy bills for years to come.
 

RUdude

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I had my roof replaced after 25 years, the roofer said all my plywood was really good. he noted my builder had attic baffles in the attic that were as wide as the rafters and to facilitate the airflow up to the roof line... he said the builder original roofer probably did this given how the house was facing with sunlight and ice melt to move the air higher up the roof line..
 
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Postman_1

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Information updated 12/30/2022

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 provides federal tax credits and deductions that empower Americans to make homes and buildings more energy-efficient to help reduce energy costs while reducing demand as we transition to cleaner energy sources.

Savings for Homeowners​

New federal income tax credits are available through 2032 providing up to $3,200 annually to lower the cost of energy efficient home upgrades by up to 30 percent. Improvements such as installing heat pumps, heat pump water heaters, insulation, doors and windows, as well as electrical panel upgrades, home energy audits and more, are covered by the tax credits and can help families save money on their monthly energy bills for years to come.
Thanks for your help. I did find this info. I searched for rebates in my area by zip code and nothing came up. It does seem like I can claim the new insulation by looking at this.


I had my roof replaced after 25 years, the roofer said all my plywood was really good. he noted my builder had attic baffles in the attic that were as wide as the rafters and to facilitate the airflow up to the roof line... he said the builder original roofer probably did this given how the house was facing with sunlight and ice melt to move the air higher up the roof line..

My baffles certainly do not look that neat. Some are broke and fell over.

Attics need air movement through area. settling air can warm areas where they accumulate creating condensation, (wet nails) moisture spots. make sure soffit vents are clear. Do you have ridge vent?
When I had one installed all my moisture troubles went away.
Ice damming, been there done that can be a real messy problem.
Yes I have a ridge vent. I think my issue is the air getting to the vent from bad baffles and weak insulation
 
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Knight Shift

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Thanks for your help. I did find this info. I searched for rebates in my area by zip code and nothing came up. It does seem like I can claim the new insulation by looking at this.




My baffles certainly do not look that neat. Some are broke and fell over.


Yes I have a ridge vent. I think my issue is the air getting to the vent from bad baffles and weak insulation
Most of those baffles are flimsy pieces of garbage that get crushed and twisted. Someone above posted this picture, which is what they should look like:



In one rental home we had, the crew that did the blown-in insulation blew the insulation past the baffles and into the vented soffits. I have seen rolled insulation stuffed up against styroroam baffles so tight that the baffles were crushed and choked off.

There are several ways this could be addressed. I gave one with furring strips. Here's another way:




I have been in quite a few attics, as we have owned a bunch of different homes, and as a firefighter. Over time, have seen some pretty weird and hacky stuff.
 

RUdude

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the baffles vary from styrofoam to plastic...so i would make sure your qoute includes a description that type and make sure they are as wide as the joists..also be mindful when you look at your soffits from the outside under your roof the venting varies from continous vent (under each rafter...basically a honeycomb plastic) to alternating or small round metal circles, and possibly you need more vents.
 
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T2Kplus20

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Information updated 12/30/2022

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 provides federal tax credits and deductions that empower Americans to make homes and buildings more energy-efficient to help reduce energy costs while reducing demand as we transition to cleaner energy sources.

Savings for Homeowners​

New federal income tax credits are available through 2032 providing up to $3,200 annually to lower the cost of energy efficient home upgrades by up to 30 percent. Improvements such as installing heat pumps, heat pump water heaters, insulation, doors and windows, as well as electrical panel upgrades, home energy audits and more, are covered by the tax credits and can help families save money on their monthly energy bills for years to come.
Stay away from heat pumps and heat pump water heaters. They are garbage for the NE climate.

The wife works as a consultant for various state clean energy programs, including NJ (via RU). Back in 2009, we got the state's granddaddy of all clean energy rebate programs. 50% off of work if it reduces your home's energy use by at least 25%. Our home was drafty as hell and needed a lot of work - sealing, insulation in the attic and multiple empty spaces, new furnace, and water heater. Cut our energy bills in half and made the home much more comfortable. We ended up paying about $9k for 22k of work (after NJ and Fed rebates/credits). We broke even in under 4 years.
 

Morrischiano2

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Has anyone gotten there attic insulated recently? I just had a company here (Master Attic) give me an estimate for removing old insulation and installing new insulation. I currently have an older insulation that is about 4", the new stuff would be a Owens Corning R30 16". The reason I am considering having this done is a few weeks ago when we had the rapid temp change on Christmas Eve from 55F to 8F a few days after I noticed some marks on my ceiling in spots where it meets the wall. My roof is not that old so I dont think thats the problem. I was thinking this was from condensation? When I was in my attic I did notice some of the baffles not properly installed and some gaps in insulation. Also if I felt the nails coming through the roof they had moisture on them.

Looking for any feedback if anyone had this done recently.
If it is a poor insulation issue then done rooms on the top floor would be hotter than expected. Are you having those problems in the summer?
 

Morrischiano2

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Dec 3, 2019
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Stay away from heat pumps and heat pump water heaters. They are garbage for the NE climate.

The wife works as a consultant for various state clean energy programs, including NJ (via RU). Back in 2009, we got the state's granddaddy of all clean energy rebate programs. 50% off of work if it reduces your home's energy use by at least 25%. Our home was drafty as hell and needed a lot of work - sealing, insulation in the attic and multiple empty spaces, new furnace, and water heater. Cut our energy bills in half and made the home much more comfortable. We ended up paying about $9k for 22k of work (after NJ and Fed rebates/credits). We broke even in under 4 years.
I have a heat pump water heater in our 6 yr old house and is extremely efficient. Our house is 6 bedrooms, ~6000 sF and our heating bill has never hit $400 during the winter.
 
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Postman_1

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If it is a poor insulation issue then done rooms on the top floor would be hotter than expected. Are you having those problems in the summer?
Nah, I live in a rancher so no upstairs. I had new insulation put in last Monday. Had the roof inspected prior and everything was fine I was told by two different roofing companies.
 

RobertG

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Put in a new high efficiency gas burner combo unit for heat and hot water, to replace an old oil burner and hot water tank for our hot water baseboard system. Last year our Jan oil bill was $1000. This year gas bill for Jan was $250. Still need to do a lot of insulation as the house is pretty old. Portion of it date from the late 1700s.
 

T2Kplus20

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May 1, 2007
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I have a heat pump water heater in our 6 yr old house and is extremely efficient. Our house is 6 bedrooms, ~6000 sF and our heating bill has never hit $400 during the winter.
A heat pump water heater is a very small % of your overall bill. It's mostly about the furnace and what heats the house (not just water).

As per the data from the NJ BPU and Clean Energy program, heat pumps are crap in this climate.
 

T2Kplus20

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May 1, 2007
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Put in a new high efficiency gas burner combo unit for heat and hot water, to replace an old oil burner and hot water tank for our hot water baseboard system. Last year our Jan oil bill was $1000. This year gas bill for Jan was $250. Still need to do a lot of insulation as the house is pretty old. Portion of it date from the late 1700s.
Nice replacement. Welcome to the modern age! :)
 

Eagleton95.99

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Jul 25, 2001
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Has anyone gotten there attic insulated recently? I just had a company here (Master Attic) give me an estimate for removing old insulation and installing new insulation. I currently have an older insulation that is about 4", the new stuff would be a Owens Corning R30 16". The reason I am considering having this done is a few weeks ago when we had the rapid temp change on Christmas Eve from 55F to 8F a few days after I noticed some marks on my ceiling in spots where it meets the wall. My roof is not that old so I dont think thats the problem. I was thinking this was from condensation? When I was in my attic I did notice some of the baffles not properly installed and some gaps in insulation. Also if I felt the nails coming through the roof they had moisture on them.

Looking for any feedback if anyone had this done recently.
Your local utility has a program that will subsidize. Home Performance with Energy Star.
 
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Eagleton95.99

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Never

PSE&G and thanks
This is the program you want: Home Performance with Energy Star: https://homeenergy.pseg.com/homeperformance

It starts with a home audit where they assess your whole house, all the draft spots, and your equipment. Then tell you what you qualify for, how much it will cost, and what rebates and loans you get. They also project your savings from the upgrades so you can compare costs and savings. It's a good program. You do have to pay for the initial home audit though. But they have a list of approved contractors.

If you qualify as low/moderate income then there are even better programs that you can find if you search on that site. Mod Income is Home Weatherization and low income is called Comfort Partners.

Good luck.
 
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sarye

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This is the program you want: Home Performance with Energy Star: https://homeenergy.pseg.com/homeperformance

It starts with a home audit where they assess your whole house, all the draft spots, and your equipment. Then tell you what you qualify for, how much it will cost, and what rebates and loans you get. They also project your savings from the upgrades so you can compare costs and savings. It's a good program. You do have to pay for the initial home audit though. But they have a list of approved contractors.

If you qualify as low/moderate income then there are even better programs that you can find if you search on that site. Mod Income is Home Weatherization and low income is called Comfort Partners.

Good luck.
Listen to this person. We recently got it done. There’s a list of contractors that are on the program so you can’t just choose any one. Also the company I used didn’t charge me for the home audit.
 
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RobertG

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Does anybody have any experience injecting insulation into existing walls?
 

Postman_1

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Listen to this person. We recently got it done. There’s a list of contractors that are on the program so you can’t just choose any one. Also the company I used didn’t charge me for the home audit.
I already had the insulation installed though two weeks ago. Im not sure I'd qualify being its already installed.
 

Eagleton95.99

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I already had the insulation installed though two weeks ago. I...
That's a bummer as it does have to be done by a qualified contractor enrolled in the program. But it's still worth doing the audit. Attic insulation isn't the whole story. Did they do a blower door test and look for leaks? Did they assess your equipment? Did they do your basement sills? The audit will show if there is more to do, and if they made any mistakes.