The endgame strategy was f**king stupid

[ColonelRutgers]

None of this excuses the refs blowing the call or our players leaving the shooter uncovered for an uncontested shot.

The shooter was “uncovered” because he came from out of bounds. Mag had completely sealed the passer to the sideline. Look at his feet on the replay / freeze frame. He’s right against the out of bounds line. If the shooter was in bounds there’s no angle to get him the ball.

 

[bac2therac]

It was but that was after the foul by Mag while Mulcahy’s was before. We were only up 1 when Mulcahy went to the line after Cliff’s seemingly game saving block. Pike’s strategy, which I disagree with, only went into play after Mulcahy’s foul shots not before.

Yes you are right

My bad...brain is fried here

I think what i meant is we gave two possessions to Ohio state..one at line and then inexplicably 5 more seconds to score

 

[kcg88]

If we're being perfectly honest the end-of-half or end-of-game execution has generally been pretty poor. There are notable exceptions but those were more heroics by Harper or Baker than anything strategic. How many times have we had the ball with the shot clock off at the end of a first half and managed to allow the other team to score because we either turned it over or took the shot too early? No coach is perfect and you take the bad with the good.

Ohio State also hit two ridiculous shots (Thornton had a wild three pointer up against the shot clock in the second half too). It sucks but it happens.

 

[S_Janowski]

Unless you pull a Villanova and foul a three point shooter, the only way you lose in regulation is by fouling intentionally so from that standpoint I don't like it.

But if they make a three to tie it we go into OT on the road, and I wouldn’t like our chances there.

It was a back and forth close game for 40 minutes…I actually liked that we fouled to take away a decent chance to tie it up. If we fouled 1-2 seconds later we wouldn’t be here discussing all of this.

 

[fluoxetine]

The one and one issue is moot. Caleb hit the first foul shot. So it’s not like he missed the front end of the one and one.

So the fact that Pike called for this strategy while only in the single bonus is a complete non-factor.

It’s not why we lost, but it’s absolutely a factor in whether the decision was good.

 

[wheezer]

Him having us foul there is honestly out of character for him. I feel like he always has us play those scenarios out.

I was going to post the same thing.....when we were fouling I immediately thought this was not what he normally would do.. out of character

 

[RobertG]

The strategy actually worked because I assume that when a coach plans a strategy he takes into consideration the rules of the game. If the refs didn't miss the calls (multiple) then RU wins.

There is no strategy that can overcome the referees missing multiple different calls.

 

[wheezer]

Correct strategy …but poorly executed

You either don’t foul or you fouk witb less than three , forcing them to miss the second fouk shot

Execution of the strategy was the issue

I don't think you should depend on the players on defense to keep track of how much time is on the clock and then foul when there is three seconds.....

the coach should yell out to foul when the clock hits the time you want the foul...

something like this has to be worked out in practice ahead of time.

 

[RobotHunter]

The time he left on the clock is the issue.

The one and one issue is moot. Caleb hit the first foul shot. So it’s not like he missed the front end of the one and one.

So the fact that Pike called for this strategy while only in the single bonus is a complete non-factor

 

[Big boy stan]

Not sure either strategy is that crazy. For all the criticism of Pike' strategy and Mag's poor execution, it still took a crazy miracle (and probably illegal) shot with no time on the clock to lose.
With that said, I wanted them to go the other way and defend the 3 point line. Didn't like it from the moment the ESPN announcers started mentioning it.
You know exactly what and where OSU will need to be. Pull Cliff and go with a small guard line up. Put everyone with their heels on the 3 point arc and switch everything. In that scenario, a miracle shot still sends you to OT.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Obviously that shot should not have counted.

But intentionally putting us on the line for a one in one with 5 seconds left instead of just defending the first time down was ****ing stupid. Absolutely retarded strategy. I have endlessly, tirelessly defended Pike against people complaining about various strategies but he absolutely cost us that game.

apology accepted my friend lol.

 

[DHajekRC84]

The problem was the foul happened too soon. Needs to be under 5 seconds minimum

especially when your own team is going to have to shoot one and one's. THAT'S a big deal.
And to the poster above who said it doesn't matter because Caleb made the first. That's ok in hindsight. But the reality from a STRATEGY standpoint is you take the chance of missing the first without getting a second. In that situation you are only up by one and a two can now beat you. You want to be guaranteed two chances to go up by 2. It makes a big difference.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Not sure either strategy is that crazy. For all the criticism of Pike' strategy and Mag's poor execution, it still took a crazy miracle (and probably illegal) shot with no time on the clock to lose.
With that said, I wanted them to go the other way and defend the 3 point line. Didn't like it from the moment the ESPN announcers started mentioning it.
You know exactly what and where OSU will need to be. Pull Cliff and go with a small guard line up. Put everyone with their heels on the 3 point arc and switch everything. In that scenario, a miracle shot still sends you to OT.

I hate the fouling approach but it’s conventional thinking so you’re not wrong imo. I just disagree with it fundamentally.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The strategy was wrong BECAUSE of the timing. The timing is the only important part of the strategy. A truly nonsensical take. Wow.

Again, if you are not basketball fluent, you shouldn't talk.

RU lost 2 buzzer beaters with two different processes. In both cases, RU fans crying that you should allow the 1st most efficient offense a chance at a 3, is silly.

 

[fluoxetine]

RU fans crying that you should allow the 1st most efficient offense a chance at a 3, is silly.

I disagree.

I'm not sure which other game you are referring to (UMass? Iowa from way back?) but I'm always in favor of defending when ahead.

 

[Scangg]

The only thing that went wrong was Mag fouled too early. He should have fouled 2 seconds later.

Then Mag leaves his man wide open to double team the guard.

Not a good end of game for Mag

It's not as easy as "just foul 2 seconds later" in 2 more seconds he would be in a position to take a 3 or have passed to someone to shoot the 3.

I'll bet you anything Pike told Mag to foul as soon as his man crossed half court. You wait too long and you risk the player recognize you're going for a foul and getting into a shooting motion to draw a 3 point shot foul

Last play Mag seals right on the out of bounds line cutting it off completely. It's very good defense. His man then is way out of bounds and can't get the ball so he goes to help. It's not Mag's fault the refs completely blow the call

The only reason the player is even able to get the shot off is bc he was coming from out of bounds and able to step into it. If he was already in bounds that pass would have him facing away from the basket. It was a blown call that gave them a clear competitive advantage

 

[Yeah Baby]

I don't think you should depend on the players on defense to keep track of how much time is on the clock and then foul when there is three seconds.....

the coach should yell out to foul when the clock hits the time you want the foul...

something like this has to be worked out in practice ahead of time.

There were 2 fouls and the buzzer beater in 7 seconds. OSU fans admit the clock screwed us as much the the 2 OB’s.

 

[wheezer]

There were 2 fouls and the buzzer beater in 7 seconds. OSU fans admit the clock screwed us as much the the 2 OB’s.

That could be
Several fans think the clock was not started properly
My point is that Mags should not have worry about exactly when to foul, a sideline coach could indicate

He fouled too soon, had another 2-3 seconds ran off, different story

 

[RUsojo]

If we're being perfectly honest the end-of-half or end-of-game execution has generally been pretty poor. There are notable exceptions but those were more heroics by Harper or Baker than anything strategic. How many times have we had the ball with the shot clock off at the end of a first half and managed to allow the other team to score because we either turned it over or took the shot too early? No coach is perfect and you take the bad with the good.

Ohio State also hit two ridiculous shots (Thornton had a wild three pointer up against the shot clock in the second half too). It sucks but it happens.

Perfectly said.

Many have pointed out Pikiell has decided not to foul in this spot for most of his tenure. Although we’d have liked them to execute what has been plainly proven to be the best strategy, it’s hard to do it when you haven’t really done it much before.

Hopefully going forward this is a lesson that makes us better.

Somewhat related I couldn’t help but noticed how upset Paul was moreso than anyone else after the game (maybe Caleb). To me, Mag is probably not the guy I put in that situation to execute the foul. It’s a minor point but I would probably go Paul, and then Caleb. Paul obviosuly not the best defender but probably the guy you can trust most to underhand and execute the game situation. Caleb clear and obvious candidate as well given strength and experience. Something to watch next time.

 

[BillyC80]

The only reason the player is even able to get the shot off is bc he was coming from out of bounds and able to step into it. If he was already in bounds that pass would have him facing away from the basket. It was a blown call that gave them a clear competitive advantage

Excellent point!

 

[goru7]

All we needed to do was defend the arc to prevent a tie and the possibility of OT. Instead we set ourselves up for the possibility of a regulation time loss. Pretty hard to see where this is even debatable. And based on Mag’s quick foul, it’s clear that he hadn’t been coached well enough to even apply the strategy, as poor a strategy as it was. I predict Pike will never do this again.

Now, if they did not foul and hit a 3 and won in OT , we would have had the whole debate about whether he should have fouled and the analytics are about 50/50 about whether to foul up 3 with 5-8 seconds to go. So you cannot say anything definitively.
Personally , I disagreed with the strategy as he has the best or one of the best defenses in the country especially defending the 3 , it is elite , and he didn’t trust it with 7.7 seconds left. Also contrary to what he has done previously per Geo’s post . Also since we had already controlled their offense the second half it would have trusted them to defend and worst case scenario you go to OT.
Now clearly , Mag fouled too soon at 5.8 when he should have fouled with 3-4?seconds left and execution failed and the refs missed 3 things in the last 5 seconds ( clock not starting ; stepping out of bounds by passer ; and Rule violation of guy coming from out of bounds to hit shot ) to Have us have this discussion that what Pike did was the wrong strategy. No easy definitive right or wrong here just gut opinions that what he did was wrong.

 

[billgumpper]

Obviously that shot should not have counted.

But intentionally putting us on the line for a one in one with 5 seconds left instead of just defending the first time down was ****ing stupid. Absolutely retarded strategy. I have endlessly, tirelessly defended Pike against people complaining about various strategies but he absolutely cost us that game.

It was the right strategy. We fouled too soon and if you are going to do this you have to hit your foul shots. The strategy guarantees you keep the lead and get the ball.

 

[Scangg]

Excellent point!

Yup and one that I think gets lost in the mix

 

[ScarletDave]

It was the correct strategy, we won the game within the rules, there is no strategy that accounts for players out of bounds shooting baskets and the officials not reviewing the replay and running away from the head coach. None.

 

[rudad02]

Strategy worked. We won the ****&ng game.

 

[BillyC80]

Yup and one that I think gets lost in the mix

Exactly. Kudos to you for thinking of it. In every review of the play and the importance of not allowing a player who willfully stepped out to “jump in” to take a shot, this is another critical aspect that nobody else mentioned.

 

[goru7]

especially when your own team is going to have to shoot one and one's. THAT'S a big deal.
And to the poster above who said it doesn't matter because Caleb made the first. That's ok in hindsight. But the reality from a STRATEGY standpoint is you take the chance of missing the first without getting a second. In that situation you are only up by one and a two can now beat you. You want to be guaranteed two chances to go up by 2. It makes a big difference.

Pike trusted Paul , Caleb and Cam who shoot at least 75% from the line if not higher and Caleb was at 100% and Paul had just hit 2 and Cam shoots 95%, so that was factored into his strategy . We made 3-4 including both front ends of the one and ones so his relying on that worked and Caleb’s last miss when the clock didn’t start for 1-1.5 seconds would not have mattered if reffed properly that shot comes after the buzzer while the ball is still in the passer’s hands. Lots of strategy here and can argue it forever but it unusual because Pike went against what he normally does and against his team’s strength defending the 3. We came into the game # 1 in the country doing it.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

It's not as easy as "just foul 2 seconds later" in 2 more seconds he would be in a position to take a 3 or have passed to someone to shoot the 3.

I'll bet you anything Pike told Mag to foul as soon as his man crossed half court. You wait too long and you risk the player recognize you're going for a foul and getting into a shooting motion to draw a 3 point shot foul

Last play Mag seals right on the out of bounds line cutting it off completely. It's very good defense. His man then is way out of bounds and can't get the ball so he goes to help. It's not Mag's fault the refs completely blow the call

The only reason the player is even able to get the shot off is bc he was coming from out of bounds and able to step into it. If he was already in bounds that pass would have him facing away from the basket. It was a blown call that gave them a clear competitive advantage

Nope. Mag fouled his man in the backcourt. It's not hard for a guy to wait until He commits an intentional foul. Players do it all the time in end of game situations. And, in 90% of the time they do it correctly.

No, Mag should not have left the OSU player. You are suggesting that Mag made a decision to leave that man because he looked and saw him out of bounds. Not likely.

The correct defensive position is to split the difference between those two players so that you can quickly move to the one that has the ball OR gets the ball for the final shot.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Pike trusted Paul , Caleb and Cam who shoot at least 75% from the line if not higher and Caleb was at 100% and Paul had just hit 2 and Cam shoots 95%, so that was factored into his strategy . We made 3-4 including both front ends of the one and ones so his relying on that worked and Caleb’s last miss when the clock didn’t start for 1-1.5 seconds would not have mattered if reffed properly that shot comes after the buzzer while the ball is still in the passer’s hands. Lots of strategy here and can argue it forever but it unusual because Pike went against what he normally does and against his team’s strength defending the 3. We came into the game # 1 in the country doing it.

Excellent point. Explains why Pike chose this strategy here and not in prior games (Stonybrook loss maybe?). We were horrendous from charity in previous years. Our top 3 guards are very good FT shooters. Can’t beat on Caleb - the kid is 10 of 11 on the damn season.

 

[Yeah Baby]

That could be
Several fans think the clock was not started properly
My point is that Mags should not have worry about exactly when to foul, a sideline coach could indicate

He fouled too soon, had another 2-3 seconds ran off, different story

I get what you are saying but if the clock started all 3 times on time then he would not have fouled too early. That guy was pretty quick so the goal was to foul him before he got into the open and made a shot or a pass to an open player. The math was okay for this strategy. Watch the clock on all 3 possessions.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Nope. Mag fouled his man in the backcourt. It's not hard for a guy to wait until He commits an intentional foul. Players do it all the time in end of game situations. And, in 90% of the time they do it correctly.

No, Mag should not have left the OSU player. You are suggesting that Mag made a decision to leave that man because he looked and saw him out of bounds. Not likely.

The correct defensive position is to split the difference between those two players so that you can quickly move to the one that has the ball OR gets the ball for the final shot.

Disagree as I just said above. Clock management was fine. Clock was screwed up all 3 possessions. Do the math in your head for each posession. I get 9.5 seconds.

 

[wheezer]

I get what you are saying but if the clock started all 3 times on time then he would not have fouled too early. That guy was pretty quick so the goal was to foul him before he got into the open and made a shot or a pass to an open player. The math was okay for this strategy. Watch the clock on all 3 possessions.

I understand your point

My point is that you can set aside all the previous time errors and start with the time Mags fouled
The error of previous stoppages could be helped by our team just waiting another second or two for the Mags foul
I blame coach for not having a plan there to instruct a foul with less time on the clock at that point
If we had run another second and a half off before the foul that would have been enough
Coach watches the clock then yells out now, or foul. This should be a thing worked in in practices
Instead we had a premature foul and it cost us

 

[RutgersFan]

The only criticism I have of Pike's game management in all prior games throughout the years, is calling a time out when the next dead ball would be a media timeout. Even if the other team is on a run, the team needs to learn how to recover without the need to call a timeout. Timeouts are too valuable, especially in the end game, and better off waiting for the next dead ball media break. Had he done this in the Ohio State game, he would have had at least an additional timeout to discuss the aforementioned fouling strategies.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I understand your point

My point is that you can set aside all the previous time errors and start with the time Mags fouled
The error of previous stoppages could be helped by our team just waiting another second or two for the Mags foul
I blame coach for not having a plan there to instruct a foul with less time on the clock at that point
If we had run another second and a half off before the foul that would have been enough
Coach watches the clock then yells out now, or foul. This should be a thing worked in in practices
Instead we had a premature foul and it cost us

Blame Pike ? We have no idea what his instructions were to Mag. I don't either, but it was more likely an execution issue with Mag fouling the guard 10 feet before halfcourt instead of waiting 10 feet over halfcourt.

 

[wheezer]

Blame Pike ? We have no idea what his instructions were to Mag. I don't either, but it was more likely an execution issue with Mag fouling the guard 10 feet before halfcourt instead of waiting 10 feet over halfcourt.

Teams practice end game situations and this is one of them

There should be coordination between the team and staff to commit a foul at the correct moment , with the staff relaying

that’s all I am saying