Jim Harbaugh

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RUTGERS95

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Sep 28, 2005
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Some of the same people who incessantly talk about original intent and strict construction as it applies to the second amendment curiously don't want to apply those ideas as rigorously to the first, which is more clear. Congress does not get into religion. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Hardline Christians had their chance for over 1000 years. They did not bring about a better world.
actually, that's not true as the separation of church and states emits from a letter from an SC judge and not the founders. In fact, the founders are clear in their beliefs on religion and country as it's governed. Religion is ok but no state endorsed religion should be permitted. hell, the founders started many conventions with prayers.

this whole discussion is pointless really, people can believe what they want but the issue is forced beliefs and acceptance on those who choose not to.
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
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Roe v Wade was just overturned as a result of a decades long effort spearheaded by evangelicals to pack the court.
No.

It was overturned because it found rights in the Constitution that do not exist.

Roe was glaring proof that “Hard cases make bad law.”
 
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brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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actually, that's not true as the separation of church and states emits from a letter from an SC judge and not the founders. In fact, the founders are clear in their beliefs on religion and country as it's governed. Religion is ok but no state endorsed religion should be permitted. hell, the founders started many conventions with prayers.

this whole discussion is pointless really, people can believe what they want but the issue is forced beliefs and acceptance on those who choose not to.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" are literally the first words of the first amendment. Seems like it was important to the Founding Fathers.
 

brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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No.

It was overturned because it found rights in the Constitution that do not exist.

Roe was glaring proof that “Hard cases make bad law.”
Yet many justices over 50 years did not see it that way until just a few months ago. It didn't happen by accident.
 
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RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
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Roe v Wade was just overturned as a result of a decades long effort spearheaded by evangelicals to pack the court.
lol, one of your funnier comments. So now the SC is packed with evagelicals? Neve mind we've got on the SC that thinks it's ok to use race and not law to decide outcomes (or is it two now since one can't tell us what a woman is). it was overturned because the states should have the power to decide absent a Federal law (which of course no politican tried to do)

The left is full on retard the past 10yrs
 

RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
31,606
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" are literally the first words of the first amendment. Seems like it was important to the Founding Fathers.
thanks, you just validated my point earlier. You need coffee?
 

brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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and prior to that, the precedent it overturned was a 78yr old case. forget that one too?
That's the case with lots of rulings that expanded rights because rights were overly restricted by overreaching government. Say no to big government in your bedroom.
 
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brgRC90

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I saw it the first time I read the case in law school.

As did every other first year law student.
You saw it with your point of view. But justices over 50 years did not agree until a select group put in through efforts spearheaded by evangelicals saw it that way.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,479
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you think the problem today is right wing evangelical christians? What planet have you been on because the new religion of the left is the issue. Beliefs should be the central focal point and not religion

In this thread we've got posters making fun of some christians for believing (incorrectly) that the earth is 6k yrs but will hollar from the highest peek it's ok for a guy to dress in drag and think he's a girl.

bizzaro world man, bizzaro world
Should the guy in drag be shot or maybe burned like some were during the Salem Witch Trial era when just being accused of witchcraft got the fire stated.
Do you believe a person has a right to dress in the manner they feel comfortable with or should it be : men only are the ones that can wear pants while women skirts and dresses only.

Remember religioons tend to persecute those that don't conform to their beliefs and tend to want the rules they go by to be the rules all follow
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
22,998
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You saw it with your point of view. But justices over 50 years did not agree until a select group put in through efforts spearheaded by evangelicals saw it that way.
Now you’re just being silly.

The theories exposed by the SCt in Roe were manufactured out of thin air. Made up. Everyone who read the opinion and had any understanding of Constitutional law knew that was the case. Then and now.
 
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brgRC90

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lol, one of your funnier comments. So now the SC is packed with evagelicals? Neve mind we've got on the SC that thinks it's ok to use race and not law to decide outcomes (or is it two now since one can't tell us what a woman is). it was overturned because the states should have the power to decide absent a Federal law (which of course no politican tried to do)

The left is full on retard the past 10yrs
Go back and read the comment twice. It is filled with Supreme Court justices as a result of efforts spearheaded by evangelicals. You must feel really dumb trying to insult MY intelligence now lol. But that's your MO.
 
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NewJerseyGuy

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You saw it with your point of view. But justices over 50 years did not agree until a select group put in through efforts spearheaded by evangelicals saw it that way.
Any other examples of current Right Wing Evangelical Power, Dominance and Influence in modern day America other than Roe?
 

brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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Now you’re just being silly.

The theories exposed by the SCt in Roe were manufactured out of thin air. Made up. Everyone who read the opinion and had any understanding of Constitutional law knew that was the case. Then and now.
Yes it's always "common sense" when the SC rules in a way you agree with. I'll repeat: many justices appointed over 50 years by many different presidents and appointed by many politicians did not see it that way. This decision did not come about by accident. You know that. Everyone knows it. Republicans stated openly they wanted to pack courts with anti-abortion justices.
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
22,998
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Yes it's always "common sense" when the SC rules in a way you agree with. I'll repeat: many justices appointed over 50 years by many different presidents and appointed by many politicians did not see it that way. This decision did not come about by accident. You know that. Everyone knows it. Republicans stated openly they wanted to pack courts with anti-abortion justices.
Even the Notorious RBG said the Roe court was wrong.
 

brgRC90

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
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Any other examples of current Right Wing Evangelical Power, Dominance and Influence in modern day America other than Roe?
Are you joking? You think these people, who have electorally dominated the GOP for decades don't have influence? They stop the teaching of evolution and sex education in schools. They influence foreign policy because they think Revelations tells us we must support Israel. They have gotten laws passed that allow professionals and businesses to refuse service to gay people like blacks were refused service during Jim Crow. They've blocked vaccine mandates. Most of what the GOP does is for them.
 

NewJerseyGuy

Heisman
Jun 26, 2005
22,998
27,666
88
Are you joking? You think these people, who have electorally dominated the GOP for decades don't have influence? They stop the teaching of evolution and sex education in schools. They influence foreign policy because they think Revelations tells us we must support Israel. They have gotten laws passed that allow professionals and businesses to refuse service to gay people like blacks were refused service during Jim Crow. They've blocked vaccine mandates. Most of what the GOP does is for them.
Sorry. You are delusional.

You have believed a lie.
 

brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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Even the Notorious RBG said the Roe court was wrong.
Not in the way you suggest. She believed women had a right to an abortion. I do, too, certainly in the case when their health is at stake. No government or church has the right to tell you you can't make medical decisions to save your own life. If a government can't tell you to take a vaccine it can't tell you you can't save your life with an abortion. If I was pregnant and needed an abortion to not die I'd tell the governor of Texas and the SC to go **** themselves and I'd get one.
 
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NewJerseyGuy

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Not in the way you suggest. She believed women had a right to an abortion. I do, too, certainly in the case when their health is at stake. No government or church has the right to tell you you can't make medical decisions to save your own life. If a government can't tell you to take a vaccine it can't tell you you can't save your life with an abortion.
Not a right found in the United States Constitution. Period.
 

RC1991

All-Conference
Jul 31, 2003
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The powerful, right wing evangelical boogeyman has left the building.

Time to abandon that notion.

Please point out examples of right wing evangelical power dominating current government, social media, societal norms, corporate culture, advertising, marketing, music, movies, tv, books, etc.

If you believe modern day America is run or heavily influenced by right wing (you mean white) evangelicals, you are deluded and easily manipulated.
I guess I struck a nerve huh? Sounds like you are the deluded one who has drunk the kool-aid. As far as society lets look at the choice of Supreme Court justices based on their social and religious beliefs and nothing more no matter how you try and disguise it. There are numerous media outlets dedicated to right wing points of view who keep pushing that political agenda and many musicians, especially in country music.

Roe v Wade was just overturned as a result of a decades long effort spearheaded by evangelicals to pack the court.
Not to mention the call to revisit a whole slew of other issues as put forth by Clarence Thomas though shockingly not interracial marriage. A prime case of do as I say not as I do if ever there was one. Then we also have Desantis as another prime example of banning books, and attacking people and corporations who dare openly disagree with his ideology in the name of putting down “wokeness”. As I said in another thread that was deleted he is pushing the same type of agenda that started in Germany in the early 30s.
 
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NewJerseyGuy

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I guess I struck a nerve huh? Sounds like you are the deluded one who has drunk the kool-aid. As far as society lets look at the choice of Supreme Court justices based on their social and religious beliefs and nothing more no matter how you try and disguise it. There are numerous media outlets dedicated to right wing points of view who keep pushing that political agenda and many musicians, especially in country music.


Not to mention the call to revisit a whole slew of other issues as put forth by Clarence Thomas though shockingly not interracial marriage. A prime case of do as I say not as I do if ever there was one. Then we also have Desantis as another prime example of banning books, and attacking people and corporations who dare openly disagree with his ideology in the name of putting down “wokeness”. As I said in another thread that was deleted he is pushing the same type of agenda that started in Germany in the early 30s.

Who are the evangelicals on the SCt again?

Thanks.
 

mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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Wow.. very misleading post. When Trump wanted to get Antifa listed as a domestic terror organization there was so much resistance to that both among Dems and the media. The FBI was actually making statemenets that Antifa would be targeted to be attacked by right-wing domestic terror organizations.
Politicians (such as presidents) don't make the determination of whom to designate terror organizations. Our intelligence agencies do. Preferably without interference of influence by politicians.

Your second link confirms what I wrote about Antifa being designed a terror organization.

And finally, why are you posting stuff about what Democrats or the media did or said? What does that have to do with what I said? I said nothing political and based nothing I said on any media source. I'm not a Democrat (or a Republican), and I didn't attack or defend any political party or ideology in what I wrote.

I simply wrote facts that you can easily verify by visiting the FBI's website. And those facts were produced by the prior admin's intelligence agencies. Not me. Not the media. Not the SPLC.

There was nothing misleading in what I wrote at all. It might not conform to a narrative you've adopted, but that's not my problem and it doesn't make what I wrote misleading. Unless you feel the FBI is misleading the nation about domestic terror groups, in which case I don't know what to tell you.
 

RC1991

All-Conference
Jul 31, 2003
3,773
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actually, that's not true as the separation of church and states emits from a letter from an SC judge and not the founders. In fact, the founders are clear in their beliefs on religion and country as it's governed. Religion is ok but no state endorsed religion should be permitted. hell, the founders started many conventions with prayers.

this whole discussion is pointless really, people can believe what they want but the issue is forced beliefs and acceptance on those who choose not to.
Jefferson did state that the Constitution provided for separation of church and state which was later (late 1800s) affirmed by the SC.

 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,479
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Even the Notorious RBG said the Roe court was wrong.

Why is misinformation the bases of many remarks about Justice Ginsburg and what she said about Roe and Wade decision
Yes she didn't like it, but only because she felt that case was the wrong way to go
( What I found out about what RBG thought best for abortion rights)

She suggested a ruling protecting abortion rights would have been more durable if it had been based on the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution — in other words, if it had focused on gender equality rather than the right to privacy that the justices highlighted.

Ginsburg actually didn’t think Roe was the best case for establishing abortion rights. She would have preferred a case she worked on as a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union in the early 1970s.
In that case, Ginsburg represented an Air Force captain who became pregnant while serving as a nurse in Vietnam. In a twist, Ginsburg championed the woman’s right not to have an abortion; an Air Force rule at the time dictated that pregnant women had to terminate their pregnancies or be discharged.
Ginsburg challenged the rule on behalf of the woman, Susan Struck, in a case called Struck v. Secretary of Defense and won a stay preventing Struck’s discharge while the courts reviewed the case.

The Supreme Court agreed to hear the case, but the Air Force relented and allowed Struck to keep her job, rendering the issue moot.

“I wish that would’ve been the first case. I think the Court would’ve better understood that this is about women’s choice,” Ginsburg said.

In response to a question about what would happen if Roe were overturned , Ginsburg said the effect would largely be restricted to poor women in anti-choice states. Many states would never outlaw abortion, and wealthier women will always be able to travel to those states, she pointed out.
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
22,998
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Why is misinformation the bases of many remarks about Justice Ginsburg and what she said about Roe and Wade decision
Yes she didn't like it, but only because she felt that case was the wrong way to go
( What I found out about what RBG thought best for abortion rights)

She suggested a ruling protecting abortion rights would have been more durable if it had been based on the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution — in other words, if it had focused on gender equality rather than the right to privacy that the justices highlighted.

Ginsburg actually didn’t think Roe was the best case for establishing abortion rights. She would have preferred a case she worked on as a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union in the early 1970s.
In that case, Ginsburg represented an Air Force captain who became pregnant while serving as a nurse in Vietnam. In a twist, Ginsburg championed the woman’s right not to have an abortion; an Air Force rule at the time dictated that pregnant women had to terminate their pregnancies or be discharged.
Ginsburg challenged the rule on behalf of the woman, Susan Struck, in a case called Struck v. Secretary of Defense and won a stay preventing Struck’s discharge while the courts reviewed the case.

The Supreme Court agreed to hear the case, but the Air Force relented and allowed Struck to keep her job, rendering the issue moot.

“I wish that would’ve been the first case. I think the Court would’ve better understood that this is about women’s choice,” Ginsburg said.

In response to a question about what would happen if Roe were overturned , Ginsburg said the effect would largely be restricted to poor women in anti-choice states. Many states would never outlaw abortion, and wealthier women will always be able to travel to those states, she pointed out.
Lots of words, which support my assertion.

Thanks for posting.
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
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You have an arm of 4 staunchly conservative and religious justices who believe strongly in the same social agenda as the evangelical Christians. They don’t necessarily have to identify as evangelical Christians I order to subscribe to their beliefs.
Do you believe Roman Catholic = Evangelical?
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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actually, that's not true as the separation of church and states emits from a letter from an SC judge and not the founders. In fact, the founders are clear in their beliefs on religion and country as it's governed. Religion is ok but no state endorsed religion should be permitted. hell, the founders started many conventions with prayers.

this whole discussion is pointless really, people can believe what they want but the issue is forced beliefs and acceptance on those who choose not to.

So you've been forced to wear a skirt? I thought you just did it because you like the way your saggy balls feel flapping in the morning breeze.

No judgment.
 
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mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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Huh?

You said you didn’t know where I got my info.

I said I got my info from the FBI Director and president Biden.

Please disregard the supporting video evidence.

Thanks.
So you trust Biden to give you 100% accurate information do you? I don't trust ANY president or ANY politician to do that. They have political agendas and that colors everything they say (all of them, not just Biden).

The FBI director is probably more trustworthy, but it's still a job that is burdened by political influence. The reports produced by the intelligence agencies, which are available for you to read at the FBI website, support what I said and contradict what you wrote about Antifa. Not sure why you wouldn't just go verify it, if you actually care about the truth.

Are you actually arguing that Antifa isn't a domestic terrorist group? Are you arguing that the KKK didn't use centralized organization? Are you arguing that more recent domestic terror groups prefer to use decentralized organizational approaches?

Not sure what I wrote that you're actually disagreeing with.
 

brgRC90

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Apr 8, 2008
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You have an arm of 4 staunchly conservative and religious justices who believe strongly in the same social agenda as the evangelical Christians. They don’t necessarily have to identify as evangelical Christians I order to subscribe to their beliefs.
More to the point: evangelicals helped get them onto the court knowing their positions on abortion, which they lied to the Senate about. Catholic justices have been supported by Republicans for years in an attempt to get Catholic votes and because they see them as similarly socially conservative without the same baggage as evangelicals, which mightve stopped appointment. It's no coincidence 6 justices are Catholic in a country that's one quarter Catholic.
 

mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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Which is more deception being used to stoke fear and outrage. As a gay man I personally am not a big fan of the over-the-top corporate sponsorship of this stuff and an entire month devoted to it. But most of that is driven by business looking to get gay and gay-friendly dollars (which is much of the Millenials and Gen Z), not Woke Mobs (of which I am also no great fan. They even attack their own.) Portraying this as wokeism taking over, as I see elected Republican officials doing over and over, is inaccurate and unconscionable. It's the new Red Scare.
I agree that the red scare tactic is continually replayed. But to be fair, both Dems and Reps cynically use that sort of over-the-top fear mongering to drive voting behavior. Neither side has a corner on that market.

You seem to realize this which is good. Unfortunately, it seems that most people nowadays have little awareness of just how much they're being manipulated by their chosen media sources, by their chosen politicians, by their chosen political parties, and by their supported special interest groups, all of whom wield ideology like a whip to herd the masses on both sides. The irony being that many people on both sides see it happening with the other side but, inexplicably and against all evidence to the contrary, firmly believe it doesn't take place on their side.

I guess it's a testament to the power of modern marketing that so many people can be so easily and broadly misled by those they trust, for no defensible reason, the most. Every time I see someone broadly demonize a political party or ideology, I see a sheep who's totally unaware of the degree to which they've being led around.

Cons and Libs aren't destroying the nation. Selective skepticism and ideological worship is.
 
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MADHAT1

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Apr 1, 2003
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Lots of words, which support my assertion.

Thanks for posting.
glad you liked it.
The truth matters and agendas sometimes people just post what helps their cause, the truth be dammed.

My opinion of what I posted , that you liked, is:

RBG didn't like Roe and Wade because it wasn't a strong enough case to base abortion decisions on and there was a stronger case that c=should have been the focus of the ruling on
a women's right to chose, but Justice Ginsburg was for women having the right to chose whether or not to have an abortion and that was a protection that the US Constitution should provide .
Not saying Roe and Wade was a wrong decxision, just that it wasn't the strongest that was available to protect a women's right to have an abortion to be used and she feared it might be overturned in the future because it would have been better to approach it under the equal protection clause" so Roe v. Wade would be less vulnerable to attempts to have it voided.

Ginsburg was basically disagreeing with Roe's base argument that the right to abortion was based on the privacy of a woman with her doctor, and should have been based on being a violation of equal protection as guaranteed by the Constitution.
 

NewJerseyGuy

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Jun 26, 2005
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Who is preventing free and open discussion here?
No one.

Some posters have merely signaled their preference for discouraging certain speech and ideas through their words and posting styles.

An observation based on available data. No judgment.
 
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