This is a great Rutgers baseball team encumbered by an uncharacteristically weak OOC schedule and yes losses to Lafayette and Princeton,both down this year.If they lose today they could be approaching bubble status. Play a tougher February schedule and they would have better than a 45 RPI. Of course the Big is very weak in baseball. But there is a lesson to be learned which of course applies to basketball. That's why the Gonzaga or UBS game would be terrific.
Take a cue from baseball
- Thread starter RU72
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Dont lose to a bad Princeton or Lafayette team and they wouldn’t be in this situation either,
moral of story: win games you’re supposed to
At the end of the day, you are who you are. Baseball team had a great season. They outperformed. We’re light on pitching. Who knows what would have happened with a different schedule.
Bad example. Baseball team had a great season and wasn’t projected to be that good. Nobody was saying the basketball schedule should’ve been hard in 2019-20 (the only comments were around scheduling a D2 opponent who didn’t count towards the win total).
We don’t need a tough OOC basketball schedule, but I’m not understanding why it has to be a historically bad one unless the BIG/ACC challenge assigns us a road game at UNC or Duke (wouldn’t actually be the worst thing). If we get Pitt or another bottom feeder, we’re potentially looking at that and Rider being our showcase non-conference games outside of Seton Hall with every other game in the 300+ dept. That would easily qualify for “worst ever” non-conference.
We don’t need a tough OOC basketball schedule, but I’m not understanding why it has to be a historically bad one unless the BIG/ACC challenge assigns us a road game at UNC or Duke (wouldn’t actually be the worst thing). If we get Pitt or another bottom feeder, we’re potentially looking at that and Rider being our showcase non-conference games outside of Seton Hall with every other game in the 300+ dept. That would easily qualify for “worst ever” non-conference.
Teams make tournaments because scheduling was easy
Teams make tournaments because scheduling was hard
Teams miss tournaments because scheduling was easy
Teams miss tournaments because scheduling was hard
Forget the Monday morning quarterback. Tell me why a specific team was built to play a better schedule. No crying over spilt milk because there were too many losses, ignoring the fact it is harder to beat better teams.
Teams make tournaments because scheduling was hard
Teams miss tournaments because scheduling was easy
Teams miss tournaments because scheduling was hard
Forget the Monday morning quarterback. Tell me why a specific team was built to play a better schedule. No crying over spilt milk because there were too many losses, ignoring the fact it is harder to beat better teams.
I usually agree with you but you are really missing the mark here. There’s good psychological reason for a team that hasn’t had a winning record in many years to intentionally schedule in a way to break that pattern.
Not one person is suggesting that scheduling murders row is a good idea for 2022-23. We’re lining up to potentially compete for the prize of THE weakest (358th ranked) non-conference. If that happens, not only would it get national recognition in a very negative way - but in reality the math wouldn’t actually work as you say and help us win more. The Patriot league teams weren’t easy for us. If we play 10 games against them and 10 games against Rider types (200ish RPIs) we’d be fools to rely on the advanced stats to assume it would be easier to go undefeated against the Patriot league teams. It never works that way for us.
RU 72 is right
its pretty simple
the idea that people are actually arguing for a weak non conference schedule is ludicrous
it doesnt have to be the toughest but it does not have to be 300 plus every year either
its pretty simple
the idea that people are actually arguing for a weak non conference schedule is ludicrous
it doesnt have to be the toughest but it does not have to be 300 plus every year either
The fact that we’re not in the Gavitt games this year or scheduled to play the road end of a home and home against anyone makes it noticeably worse than normal.
We have made it to the NCAAs 3 straight years. I am fairly confident that would not have been the case if we had the schedule some want. Obviously I am giving us credit for the COVID year
Who is saying we should’ve scheduled a much different OOC schedule those years? Nobody said that for 2019-20 and in 2020-21 we played 4 total non-conference games - one was Syracuse and the other 3 were local teams that made sense during Covid - Hoftstra turned out to be pretty decent actually).
Last year, more fans wanted to see us play
a high profile neutral game or 2, but the truth is it didn’t make sense last season with 3 true road non-conference games penciled in. Most folks get this. Obviously going to DePaul wasn’t Pike’s first choice and the UMass game was scheduled a while ago. Not much he could’ve done.
This year he knew SHU was a home game. When he found out we also weren’t in the Gavitt there was no excuse for not scheduling a neutral game. Anything other than a road trip to BC and I’ll be pleasantly surprised when the ACC Challenge match ups are announced.
During this time span, Rutgers has been a combined 32-4 with fans inside the RAC (I consider all 2020-21 games to be like neutral games). To break it down further, that’s 20-3 against major conference teams.
These outcomes don’t translate to a team than should be hesitant to schedule a few more projected NET 200ish mid-majors instead of 300ish ones in fear of losing more often.
Agree.
But also agree some of the games you’re supposed to win can be a little higher rated than what both sports have done.
Yes.
So instead of Our Lady of the Poor all the time we sprinkle in some Our Lady of the Lower Class too. Should still be a borderline cupcake but on paper/metric-wise it looks a little better at the end of the season.
If quads are important there is no difference between #200 and #325.
It's a vicious spin cycle because there are fans that have a checklist of things they can just pivot to, when they want to complain.
A) The schedule isn't tough enough is the same crowd that also says, "recruiting isn't good enough"......LMAO
You can't on one hand spend all of the season in game threads, complain about recruiting not being this or that AND at the same time, ask for a "supposedly not good team because of recruiting ", to go schedule much tougher OOC games.
B) the same OOC schedule participants, still haven't argued how many 14 and 15 loss teams make the tournament every Selection Sunday. If there are dozens of 17 and 15 or 19-15 records making the NCAAs, then those fans would be correct.
C) I still haven't found any RU fans that are ready to proclaim that the OOC schedules of other leagues, somehow is equal to what RU plays in league. There are Big East or teams locally that are going to mention "RU doesn't schedule tough enough in OOC"....
Let's assume Pike could schedule a better OOC.....I don't ever see anyone say "RU has an overall SOS that is too low".....
If you compare a lot of the "overall SOS", that's all that matters. There is no specific measurement that the NCAA committee says, that isolates a programs OOC.....it is a media created talking point. There is no such thing that exists.
D) The RAC is now a legitimate home court advantage....we saw SHU backed backpedal faster than Deion Sanders in the early 90s, away from having to play at the RAC. How many teams around the country are lining up to sign a home and home with RU.....?? I'll wait......
A) The schedule isn't tough enough is the same crowd that also says, "recruiting isn't good enough"......LMAO
You can't on one hand spend all of the season in game threads, complain about recruiting not being this or that AND at the same time, ask for a "supposedly not good team because of recruiting ", to go schedule much tougher OOC games.
B) the same OOC schedule participants, still haven't argued how many 14 and 15 loss teams make the tournament every Selection Sunday. If there are dozens of 17 and 15 or 19-15 records making the NCAAs, then those fans would be correct.
C) I still haven't found any RU fans that are ready to proclaim that the OOC schedules of other leagues, somehow is equal to what RU plays in league. There are Big East or teams locally that are going to mention "RU doesn't schedule tough enough in OOC"....
Let's assume Pike could schedule a better OOC.....I don't ever see anyone say "RU has an overall SOS that is too low".....
If you compare a lot of the "overall SOS", that's all that matters. There is no specific measurement that the NCAA committee says, that isolates a programs OOC.....it is a media created talking point. There is no such thing that exists.
D) The RAC is now a legitimate home court advantage....we saw SHU backed backpedal faster than Deion Sanders in the early 90s, away from having to play at the RAC. How many teams around the country are lining up to sign a home and home with RU.....?? I'll wait......
Overall SOS is still a factor in the NET calculation, isn’t it?
Also - it’s possible getting road win over a bubble team might actually push a 200ish NET opponent to quad 3 range.
More home and homes are the last thing we need. I don’t want to go anywhere near Fordham or UMass campuses. Thankless games for us.
You can play Seton Hall, Princeton , Villanova. Stony Brook , St.Johns, Rider. Temple, U Conn , and UPenn just to name a few . Relatively Northeast schools and then play 3 -4 schools from the west . Maybe play Arizona State / Arizona? Oklahoma State if you want real competition and RPI points. Instead of a southern tour how about a western tour during spring break ? Steve Owens will not shy away from the competition just as Fred Hill Sr. relished playing those Miami teams in the season start ups. Some teams will deem us as inferior until we do just that. You just have to be smart.
This is where we at the mercy of the NET and any future changes in it.
I think you are better off beating #300 by 35 then #200 by 15. I don't like the NET at all! They saying scoring margin is capped but offensive and defensive efficiency aren't. Offensive and defensive efficiency is essentially scoring margin with an adjustment for competition.
SMU goes 24-9 13-4 and doesn't get in the NCAAs. Do they dance at 26-7 replacing Oregon and Missouri with 2 300 schools?
I'd say yes
I'd say yes
I don’t think any of those types warrant an actual away game.
Play Fordham at MSG for their home game of the deal? Sign me up.
Same for UMass if they want to do it at the Boston Garden.
Other than Shoe, a pre-conference schedule tournament or something like I mentioned above I’d rather play all of my OOC games at home. Like almost everyone else at the P5 level conferences do.
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I think you are right - you would be better off IF it turned out there was a correlation between how much we beat teams by and where their NET ends up. If you ran that regression analysis though, do you think this is what you’d observe? I don’t.
We blew out Nebraska and Michigan State by 20+, lost to Lafayette, needed OT for Lehigh, let Merrimack and NJIT keep it under 15 point margin. Maine was a 16 point margin. The only 300+ team we really blew out from tip was CC. We can’t schedule 10 games against them, can we?
Agreed. I see no need for true road games outside SHU, Gavitt and ACC challenge.
Actually instead of the Seton Hall home and home, it would be great if Rutgers and Seton Hall could rotate hosting an annual NJ State classic pre-season tourney for the 8 NJ schools.
An idea I have suggested for years on this Board…and that includes playing Princeton too.
I think your right. But for better measure:
Back @ Green - tell you what. In addition to the Houston loss coming off, let’s take Iowa off too, okay? The only catch is you also have to say good bye to the Providence win (it’s only fair). So in summary, Virginia replaces those 3 games with a 3 game series vs Central CT. They go 3-0 instead of 1-2. Do you still think they’d be in?
How about any scenerio that doesn’t involve SMU beating Dayton (where SMU gets a bid)? Just as we can’t assume RU would be replacing Lafayette and not a cupcake win with a harder game, you can’t assume that the teams in your example get to keep the wins against the good teams they beat and replace the losses. It’s the same thing.
I hate the quads. It should be simple. How hard was your schedule and what was your record.
Show where the NCAA committee isolates OOC Schedule as a factor towards a bid...I'll wait