3 Point Defense Last Night

[richthedentist]

I know that I mentioned our foul shooting as being a cause for the loss but just rewatched and our 3 pointer defense was horrific not one of their 9 made 3 pointers was even contested even when we were in them we gave them space to shoot just terrible defense
As an aside we missed many wide open 3’s especially in the first half

 

[RutgersNo1]

That’s on Pike. You can’t really give up open 3 in modern basketball.

 

[jordkap]

There was one in the first half that Davison got that drove me nuts in particular. Cliff had good position on D, Paul came down to double but before he even got there the ball was kicked out for a wide open 3.

 

[fluoxetine]

we missed many wide open 3’s

You can’t really give up open 3 in modern basketball.

Wow that Greg Gard really sucks.

 

[RUJMM78]

I know that I mentioned our foul shooting as being a cause for the loss but just rewatched and our 3 pointer defense was horrific not one of their 9 made 3 pointers was even contested even when we were in them we gave them space to shoot just terrible defense
As an aside we missed many wide open 3’s especially in the first half

The 3 point shot is a integral part of basketball.Teams must recruit players that excell in making outside shots and coaching staffs must teach defense that focuses on minimizing wide open 3 pointers.Rutgers needs improvement in both areas.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I know that I mentioned our foul shooting as being a cause for the loss but just rewatched and our 3 pointer defense was horrific not one of their 9 made 3 pointers was even contested even when we were in them we gave them space to shoot just terrible defense
As an aside we missed many wide open 3’s especially in the first half

I’m always critical of not defending the three point line …but that team plays really really good half court basketball . Their floor spacing and movement was outstanding and we played good defense

As much as I am critical of defeindg the three line better…we lost that game on the offensive end in the first half . Eight turnovers and poor ball movement had us at 22

Get our 32 …win by 5 instead of losing by 5

Can’t beat a 2 or 3 seed with a subpar half …and we almost did anyways

 

[motorb54]

But you have to make them.
Rutgers clawed back into the game by going to the rim.
Then when the game was up for grabs Geo and Ron on two straight possessions
took early in the shot clock long jumpers which were not close to going in.

 

[motorb54]

There was one in the first half that Davison got that drove me nuts in particular. Cliff had good position on D, Paul came down to double but before he even got there the ball was kicked out for a wide open 3.

Michigan State beat Purdue by NOT doubling down on Ivey but keeping the defenders on their outside shooters. Ivey got his 25 but the Purdue three point percentage was terrible.

 

[richthedentist]

Michigan State beat Purdue by NOT doubling down on Ivey but keeping the defenders on their outside shooters. Ivey got his 25 but the Purdue three point percentage was terrible.

That’s exactly how we beat Purdue and Illinois at home yet for some reason we don’t do the same yesterday there’s no reason at all to double down against this team and also it was lazy defense a number of times where we just gave them too much space

 

[zappaa]

No one can question we give up far more uncontested wide open, no stress 3s compared to everyone else.
Once in a great while we sling the ball around and find that comfortable 3, BUT MOST the time Geo and RHJ have to work their butts off to get a step in no stress look from 3.
Yes, you can say we were cold as ice in first half, but Ron and Geo didn’t get the looks our opponents get.
It’s quite simple, we are tough to get 2 on, this is what we choose

 

[zappaa]

Also,
They do give Caleb room for good reason.
Through no fault of Pike or the staff, I’d have lost my house in a bet if you told me Caleb’s very pretty jump shot and release his first year would have evolved into what it is now.

 

[fluoxetine]

No one can question we give up far more uncontested wide open, no stress 3s compared to everyone else.

I question this. If we give up so many wide open threes compared to others then how have we had relatively good defense for multiple years in a row?

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

The game is hard guys. Especially against really good teams. You pick your poison.
If a guy takes a 3 from 6 feet behind the arc and hits it, you tip your hat and inbound the ball.
If a guy comes all the way out to be in is face and leaves a hole that gets exploited, the same folks would ***** he's out of position.
WU moved the ball really well to create those open looks. Good on them. We should learn from it.

 

[SirScarlet]

I know that I mentioned our foul shooting as being a cause for the loss but just rewatched and our 3 pointer defense was horrific not one of their 9 made 3 pointers was even contested even when we were in them we gave them space to shoot just terrible defense
As an aside we missed many wide open 3’s especially in the first half

I was so upset last night I deleted the recording...so I am going off memory here...but I thought we contested several 3s (especially in the 2nd half)

I agree with Shack on their half court offense being soooo good. They have multiple guys like 5 who will absolutely make you pay if you don't double him and they then move the ball quickly to get a better shot.

The first half, we were a mess offensively.

But in the 2nd half. I thought our D was sensational...but they still made some tough 3s.

I mean f***, they're a top 12 team and 9-2 on the road (or whatever they are) for a reason.

 

[zappaa]

I question this. If we give up so many wide open threes compared to others then how have we had relatively good defense for multiple years in a row?

Because Flux-
We are very difficult to score 2 on.
This is an eyeball test metric, you can see it.
We can go long segments of a game without Geo or Ron even getting a decent look?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Bottom line.....we don't start 0-8 from 3 OR we don't miss front end of one and ones and the narrative of this game is completetly different. Fans need to view the game as if we made all of our free throws. I say the exact same thing when we win.

Something as random as shooting makes people see things completely different,

 

[zappaa]

Bottom line.....we don't start 0-8 from 3 OR we don't miss front end of one and ones and the narrative of this game is completetly different. Fans need to view the game as if we made all of our free throws. I say the exact same thing when we win.

Something as random as shooting makes people see things completely different,

My point is, I don’t think we’re 0-8 from 3 if we were given the exact same amount of time and space Wisconsin players had when they shot.
Both Ron and Geo will bury at least one take your time three apiece

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

My point is, I don’t think we’re 0-8 from 3 if we were given the exact same amount of time and space Wisconsin players had when they shot.
Both Ron and Geo will bury at least one take your time three apiece

I’d have to look.
If you put attempts in 3 buckets
Wide open
Lightly contested
Fully contested

 

[zappaa]

I’d have to look.
If you put attempts in 3 buckets
Wide open
Lightly contested
Fully contested

Yes, we give up a lot of WO 3s.
Caleb has a ton of back door steals because of it

 

[fluoxetine]

Because Flux-
We are very difficult to score 2 on.
This is an eyeball test metric, you can see it.

I think you're right in general but I think "far" more is an exaggeration.

We have a high defensive 3 point rate (40.2% of opponents attempts are 3s vs a NCAA avg of ~38%). However it's not some gigantic outlier; it puts us 255th out of 358 (where lower is considered better).

We can go long segments of a game without Geo or Ron even getting a decent look?

I think part of the reason you exaggerate it is because you are comparing the opponent's attempts to OUR attempts. And on offense we have a very LOW 3p rate (31.1%, 321st). So, yes, the opponents are getting far more open threes than WE are, but not far more open threes than average.

 

[greenknight]

At some point you have to trust your bigs down low on D. CO is not good on D but the 3 pters are daggers to the heart. Who cares if Dickenson scores 40 on Cliff as long as you shut down the outside 3's. Same yesterday you guard a guy for 29 seconds and then a wide open 3 with 1 second that cannot happen ever. Worry about covering your shooter

 

[RU#1fan]

That’s on Pike. You can’t really give up open 3 in modern basketball.

Defense on the 3’s has been awful all year.
Not rocket science Pike.

 

[Big boy stan]

Going by memory here but I think at least 3 of their open made 3pts were bombs from 26 - 30 feet out with less then 10 on the play clock . You don't usually cover those very tightly. Give them credit for hitting them. If they miss them, we are not having this discussion.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yes, we give up a lot of WO 3s.
Caleb has a ton of back door steals because of it

I call them LC

 

[bac2therac]

Bottom line.....we don't start 0-8 from 3 OR we don't miss front end of one and ones and the narrative of this game is completetly different. Fans need to view the game as if we made all of our free throws. I say the exact same thing when we win.

Something as random as shooting makes people see things completely different,

how was the play Mrs. Lincoln

 

[Scangg]

There was one in the first half that Davison got that drove me nuts in particular. Cliff had good position on D, Paul came down to double but before he even got there the ball was kicked out for a wide open 3.

Yea I commented on that in live thread. Zerooo reason to leave a good 3 point shooter to double there. We over help too much. We help off shooters wayyyyy too much

Also,
They do give Caleb room for good reason.
Through no fault of Pike or the staff, I’d have lost my house in a bet if you told me Caleb’s very pretty jump shot and release his first year would have evolved into what it is now.

Caleb shot good from 3 freshman year. He lost all confidence and is aiming his shot. Think he has less arch than he used to be he is aiming not shooting

 

[richthedentist]

Defense on the 3’s has been awful all year.
Not rocket science Pike.

It’s been that way for a few years we just always hedge too much and our guys many times can’t recover in time because they have hedged too far off their men

 

[mugrat86]

Defense on the 3’s has been awful all year.
Not rocket science Pike.

Yea it was horrible against Illinois, Wisconsin(away), Iowa, Michigan st, MD away, Michigan (home), etc

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

how was the play Mrs. Lincoln

I don’t know. I didn’t stay until the end. I left when my husband was shot.

 

[Rutgers25]

Also,
They do give Caleb room for good reason.
Through no fault of Pike or the staff, I’d have lost my house in a bet if you told me Caleb’s very pretty jump shot and release his first year would have evolved into what it is now.

good point. His freshman year I thought this guy can be good if he’s gets a little tougher. Well, he’s tough as nails now, but can’t shoot a lick. Did not see that coming

 

[NiTeKnight]

I think you're right in general but I think "far" more is an exaggeration.

We have a high defensive 3 point rate (40.2% of opponents attempts are 3s vs a NCAA avg of ~38%). However it's not some gigantic outlier; it puts us 255th out of 358 (where lower is considered better).

I think part of the reason you exaggerate it is because you are comparing the opponent's attempts to OUR attempts. And on offense we have a very LOW 3p rate (31.1%, 321st). So, yes, the opponents are getting far more open threes than WE are, but not far more open threes than average.

Today, ncaa.com has Rutgers at #204 (of 350) in 3 point percentage at 33.33%, and #192 in free throw percentage at 70.97%.

 

[fluoxetine]

Today, ncaa.com has Rutgers at #204 (of 350) in 3 point percentage at 33.33%, and #192 in free throw percentage at 70.97%.

Yes, the stat I was talking about is three point rate, which is the percentage of attempts that are 3s.

 

[bethlehemfan]

I question this. If we give up so many wide open threes compared to others then how have we had relatively good defense for multiple years in a row?

Michigan State is the best 3 point D % in our league. We’ve given up about 27 more made 3’s on almost the same number of shots. Thats one made 3 per game. I think that’s the trade off pike is willing to accept and over the season hard to argue giving up 1 more per game than allowing penetration imo. That said we should be guarding closer to the line against good shooting teams. Wisconsin is not one of those.

 

[RUJMM78]

Bottom line Rutgers loss the game because they only scored 61 points.Yes, there were lapses on defense but Wisconsin only scored 66 points .Make foul shots and a couple 3 pointers and Rutgers would have scored 70 points.Wisconsin is a great team because of consistent winning of games in the 60-69 point range.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Bottom line Rutgers loss the game because they only scored 61 points.Yes, there were lapses on defense but Wisconsin only scored 66 points .Make foul shots and a couple 3 pointers and Rutgers would have scored 70 points.Wisconsin is a great team because of consistent winning of games in the 60-69 point range.

Correct.

 

[NiTeKnight]

Yes, the stat I was talking about is three point rate, which is the percentage of attempts that are 3s.

My mistake.

 

[fluoxetine]

Michigan State is the best 3 point D % in our league. We’ve given up about 27 more made 3’s on almost the same number of shots. Thats one made 3 per game. I think that’s the trade off pike is willing to accept and over the season hard to argue giving up 1 more per game than allowing penetration imo. That said we should be guarding closer to the line against good shooting teams. Wisconsin is not one of those.

3 point percentage defense is mostly noise. Attempt numbers are more useful.

 

[bethlehemfan]

3 point percentage defense is mostly noise. Attempt numbers are more useful.

Was answering those who think we leave shooters too open.