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Hot take - Zion Williamson future NBA bust

R

RUEd

All-Conference
Aug 14, 2001
3,445
1,977
113
The guys on WFAN were suggesting that the knicks “tank” the season just to get him, the how good they propose he can be.
 
R

RUinFla

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2001
15,934
3,640
0
Have watched him few times for stretches--when Dook pulls away, there are other games. Doesn't shoot the 3 well (yet)? He is a freshman, and probably has not shot at distance much in games anywhere, given his skills around the basket. But his shooting form seems OK to me, given the fact that I never played. Every announcer clucks at that 285, but raves about how well he moves. You can bet that with the nutritional and conditioning experts each NBA team has, and his obvious drive and discipline, he will be in great shape whichever weight he has in the NBA, and Duke has similar nutritional and conditioning experts. This guy will not blow up and eat his way out of the league, la William Bedford and many others. The kid is unselfish, plays hard, is loved by his teammates and knows how to play. As a freshman. And seems to be a good guy. What's not to like?
TL
 
B

BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,294
15,812
72
Some guys are just athletic freaks who can succeed at whatever sport they choose, like Jim Thorpe.

I remember the first time I saw Sanu, in the spring game his freshman year. It was one of those eye-popping moments where you just knew the guy was special. Fast forward a few years and the he’s in the NFL catching passes and occasionally running the wildcat and throwing 60 yard TDs.
 
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blockm2

Senior
Jul 9, 2001
4,354
584
0
BillyC80 said:
Some guys are just athletic freaks who can succeed at whatever sport they choose, like Jim Thorpe.
Click to expand...

To me, he's even more a freak athletically than 99% of people that label gets applied to. The last player I saw on a court at his age that did things that made my jaw hit the floor was LeBron. When he was coming up the sheer speed he could run at along with his size and leaping ability was insane. He was like a freight train on a fast break that was either going past or through any defender.

Williamson is just like that. He's not as fast in a sprint as 19 year old LeBron, but he is way way way bigger. Humans his size are not supposed to move like that. It's strange to watch. Then just throw in some good all around basketball skills like rebounding and passing and his ceiling is crazy high.

KenPom has a POY calculator that combines how good you are in terms of being efficient scoring and rebounding and blocking shots and getting steals and assists along with how good your team is. It's a pretty nifty little calculation that likes efficient players for good/great teams. Zion currently ranks #1 in the KenPom POY race. His actual rating would be the 4th highest since 2013 when he started it's current formula behind only Russ Smith, Trey Burke, and Frank Kaminsky. And that's just a computer that doesn't know anything about him dunking or what not, simply measuring his play via the boxscore.
 
K

kcg88

Heisman
Aug 11, 2017
10,862
17,230
0
blockm2 said:
To me, he's even more a freak athletically than 99% of people that label gets applied to. The last player I saw on a court at his age that did things that made my jaw hit the floor was LeBron. When he was coming up the sheer speed he could run at along with his size and leaping ability was insane. He was like a freight train on a fast break that was either going past or through any defender.

Williamson is just like that. He's not as fast in a sprint as 19 year old LeBron, but he is way way way bigger. Humans his size are not supposed to move like that. It's strange to watch. Then just throw in some good all around basketball skills like rebounding and passing and his ceiling is crazy high.

KenPom has a POY calculator that combines how good you are in terms of being efficient scoring and rebounding and blocking shots and getting steals and assists along with how good your team is. It's a pretty nifty little calculation that likes efficient players for good/great teams. Zion currently ranks #1 in the KenPom POY race. His actual rating would be the 4th highest since 2013 when he started it's current formula behind only Russ Smith, Trey Burke, and Frank Kaminsky. And that's just a computer that doesn't know anything about him dunking or what not, simply measuring his play via the boxscore.
Click to expand...

Yep... I remember Pikiell calling Montez a "freak athlete" and that's true, relative to an average human. Zion is a freak even relative to other high-level basketball players.

Zion, LeBron, Giannis... it's a very short list.
 
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R

Rokodesh

Heisman
Aug 30, 2007
16,374
13,885
73
RUEd said:
The guys on WFAN were suggesting that the knicks “tank” the season just to get him, the how good they propose he can be.
Click to expand...

The Knicks are lucky the NBA doesn’t have relegation after what I saw last night. Best thing they could do is let Porzingis leave as an RFA so they don’t ruin his career once he’s healthy.
 
N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
14,389
13,242
113
blockm2 said:
To me, he's even more a freak athletically than 99% of people that label gets applied to. The last player I saw on a court at his age that did things that made my jaw hit the floor was LeBron. When he was coming up the sheer speed he could run at along with his size and leaping ability was insane. He was like a freight train on a fast break that was either going past or through any defender.

Williamson is just like that. He's not as fast in a sprint as 19 year old LeBron, but he is way way way bigger. Humans his size are not supposed to move like that. It's strange to watch. Then just throw in some good all around basketball skills like rebounding and passing and his ceiling is crazy high.

KenPom has a POY calculator that combines how good you are in terms of being efficient scoring and rebounding and blocking shots and getting steals and assists along with how good your team is. It's a pretty nifty little calculation that likes efficient players for good/great teams. Zion currently ranks #1 in the KenPom POY race. His actual rating would be the 4th highest since 2013 when he started it's current formula behind only Russ Smith, Trey Burke, and Frank Kaminsky. And that's just a computer that doesn't know anything about him dunking or what not, simply measuring his play via the boxscore.
Click to expand...

College POY (and it appears the KenPom POY) has basically zero correlation to NBA superstar status.

Good god, look at the list you posted:
Russ Smith, Trey Burke and Frank Kaminsky
Thats a bigger insult than starting this thread.

Btw - just reminder that Charlotte turned down FOUR 1ST ROUND PICKS from Boston so they could draft Frank Kaminsky. Just an amazing story. Ainge got beyond lucky
 
B

blockm2

Senior
Jul 9, 2001
4,354
584
0
NickRU714 said:
College POY (and it appears the KenPom POY) has basically zero correlation to NBA superstar status.

Good god, look at the list you posted:
Russ Smith, Trey Burke and Frank Kaminsky
Thats a bigger insult than starting this thread.

Btw - just reminder that Charlotte turned down FOUR 1ST ROUND PICKS from Boston so they could draft Frank Kaminsky. Just an amazing story. Ainge got beyond lucky
Click to expand...

WTF does NBA play have to do with KenPom POY???

I think you misunderstand. None of those guys (Burke etc) had any NBA hype yet they were super productive in college. I only bring them up as evidence of how awesomely productive he is statistically on top of his jaw dropping athleticism.
 
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Caliknight

Caliknight

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2001
198,247
150,883
113
I bet he trims down after maturing and getting on a proper training and nutrition regiment. He's still a kid. He is going to be special.

Watch the block he had against Uva in the corner. That is athleticism I am not sure I have seen before.

 
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N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
14,389
13,242
113
NickRU714 said:
I've seen zero minutes of Duke this year.
Just 2 highlights on Sportscenter.

All I know:
6'7" (maybe shorter since teams usually inflate height?)
285lbs

Not happening.
Don't care how "athletic" everyone says he is.

Okay - now fill me in on how he actually is going to be that good and I have to start watching Duke.
Rich man's Barkley?
Can he shoot at all?
Click to expand...

Let's ignore the terrible PSU game last night and bring up an oldie but goodie.

So.....about Zion.....

Hasn't played yet this year.
Reports are he's closer to 350lbs than his official listed weight of 284lbs.
Injured again - broke his foot pre-season and had nothing but setbacks since to the point he was shutdown completely for weeks
He's not even with the team and rehabbing in Portland.

Who could have guessed that a 300+lbs guy would have issues recovering from a broken foot?

Has played 85 games through 2.5 years with no real date on when he's returning.
People say "he's played more games than Embiid had played"
He's also played less games than Greg Oden had played.

What's the saying - the best ability is availability.

Meanwhile, Ja Morant is in the argument for ASG starter and arguably 2nd Team All-NBA so far.
 
S

Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,465
49,407
113
I thought zion would have a shorter career due to weight concerns and injury. Lot of stress on those joints with all that weight combined with the explosiveness. But I thought he would have some dominate years early in his career

Charles and Shaq mocking his weight is hilarious but also sad. Get it together zion. Get on the "if it tastes good spit it out" diet Charles recommended

Ja is who I wanted for the knicks so was begging for 2nd pick
 
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B

biazza38

Heisman
Nov 18, 2012
14,645
18,029
81
RutgersNo1 said:
Tatum and Ingram are doing okay.
But there are still a bunch of big time busts, including Parker, Winslow, Okafor, and Bagley.
Click to expand...
Tatum and Ingram are doing “okay.” LOL
That’s one way to put it
What about Irving, Reddish, and Barrett.
I wouldn’t say Bagley is a bust.
 
T2Kplus20

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
32,716
20,747
113
Scangg said:
I thought zion would have a shorter career due to weight concerns and injury. Lot of stress on those joints with all that weight combined with the explosiveness. But I thought he would have some dominate years early in his career

Charles and Shaq mocking his weight is hilarious but also sad. Get it together zion. Get on the "if it tastes good spit it out" diet Charles recommended

Ja is who I wanted for the knicks so was begging for 2nd pick
Click to expand...
Shaq and Barkley had a baby! LOL.

 
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C

cyrock3

All-Conference
Dec 19, 2006
38,206
2,125
103
He’s not a bust. He made the All Star Game last year and is definitely getting a max contract.

Anthony Bennett was a bust. Joe Smith was a bust. Michael Olowokandi was a bust.

Zion Williamson is definitely not a bust.
 
S

Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,465
49,407
113
cyrock3 said:
He’s not a bust. He made the All Star Game last year and is definitely getting a max contract.

Anthony Bennett was a bust. Joe Smith was a bust. Michael Olowokandi was a bust.

Zion Williamson is definitely not a bust.
Click to expand...
It's still possible... not from a talent standpoint, but if he doesn't get his weight under control and has continued injury problems, he couldddd

It would be sad to see but if that does happen.... he will be one of the greatest "what if" stories of all time
 
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T2Kplus20

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
32,716
20,747
113
cyrock3 said:
He’s not a bust. He made the All Star Game last year and is definitely getting a max contract.

Anthony Bennett was a bust. Joe Smith was a bust. Michael Olowokandi was a bust.

Zion Williamson is definitely not a bust.
Click to expand...
Huge bust as of now. Can't play = Bust. Just that simple.
 
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M

mikeyoc

All-Conference
Apr 19, 2005
1,250
1,238
113
dontestrond said:
I think he’s doing this on purpose. The kid really doesn’t want to be in NO and wants to play for the Knicks. I will be the first to tell you. Knicks will have RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish and Zion Williams starting for the in 2024.
Click to expand...
So he'll push the stack of waffles aside and start eating mixed greens instead?
 
J

jordkap

All-Conference
Jul 11, 2016
2,877
4,588
77
cyrock3 said:
He’s not a bust. He made the All Star Game last year and is definitely getting a max contract.

Anthony Bennett was a bust. Joe Smith was a bust. Michael Olowokandi was a bust.

Zion Williamson is definitely not a bust.
Click to expand...
Didn’t Joe Smith have a decent career?
 
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R

RutgersNo1

All-Conference
Sep 28, 2021
2,614
2,987
0
biazza38 said:
Tatum and Ingram are doing “okay.” LOL
That’s one way to put it
What about Irving, Reddish, and Barrett.
I wouldn’t say Bagley is a bust.
Click to expand...
You said “lately” so I didn’t include Irving.

But your expectation for Top-3 draftees are too low.

If your team used a second overall pick for a player who played 118 games in the first three years and averages 8+7 in Year 4, would you call him a bust?
 
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S

Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,465
49,407
113
dontestrond said:
I think he’s doing this on purpose. The kid really doesn’t want to be in NO and wants to play for the Knicks. I will be the first to tell you. Knicks will have RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish and Zion Williams starting for the in 2024.
Click to expand...
You better bump this in 2024 if you're right
 
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