I figured I would bring this over here from the premium board as many including Bac's post game analysis included mention of Pikell's bizarre substitution patterns last night and there have been other games where many have also questioned the line ups; Well according to Richie he stated that Pikell allows Brandin Knight to do all the in game rotations which just really blows my mind!! So what the heck does Pikell do so I guess its just Knight that thinks Jaden Jones can add nothing to this lineup while Palmquist can!!! This is just really even more bizarre
In Game Rotations
- Thread starter richthedentist
- Start date
You can often see Knight is often the one sending guys In to sub if you pay attention to the bench at home games. It is odd. Sometimes you will see Pike turn and signal or look for a player, it often knight is the one waving players to go in.
Hey, hey, hey....you can't criticize Pike on this board...please stop because so many here think he's such a nice guy. And anyone that criticizes Pike will be attacked mercilessly by his Kool-Aid drinking mob.
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Agree... All the Kool-Aid drinking people on this board who refuse to call a spade a spade and criticize the leader of this program... Pike.
John McFadden handled most of the in game coaching when You Young read at his best. When he went to Xerox, we didn't do quite as well.
Not so bizarre or so taste as you might think.
I'm really trying to understand this post. I just can't break the enigma code.
I've noticed Knight on the bench too seeming to send players in. It is odd. Is this something that happens with other coaches too?
I could see Knight having a game plan for rotations / player groupings and remind the coach when it is time for a sub based on those plans, butttt gotta think it's the head coach who ultimately makes these actual in game decisions. If I was HC, I certainly would be the one making actual subs
I could see Knight having a game plan for rotations / player groupings and remind the coach when it is time for a sub based on those plans, butttt gotta think it's the head coach who ultimately makes these actual in game decisions. If I was HC, I certainly would be the one making actual subs
My thumbs meant to type...
John McFadden handled most of the in-game coaching when Tom Young was at his best. When he (McFadden) least coaching for a job at Xerox (who used to regularly employ former Rutgers basketballers), we (and Tom) didn't do quite as well.
Not so bizarre or so rare as you might think, for an HC to delegate to an AC.
That's the corrected and expanded version...
Thank goodness I still have my enigma machine in the basement.
This is a common practice among all programs, I am not sure why this is even a topic.....for those who do not watch games in person, here is what actually happens.
A) Every program has a scouting report on the opposition and there is usually something as easy as a whiteboard with the numbers of the players who are subbing in and out of games during TV timeouts or regular timeouts.
During these timeouts, the assistant coaches on all teams are responsible for making sure that if X-player comes in off the bench, that the proper players on the floor, understand who is in the game from the opposition.......this is not rec-league basketball where you just guard whomever is in front of you.
B) with each player that comes into a game (let's use #23 & 42 for Mathis and Jacob Young), the opposing assistant is responsible to know who is subbing in from the opponent AND to make sure that you're not getting a mismatch on the floor, because you may have a player who cannot guard the incoming player.
So as an example, assistant coaches will look at a stat line of #23 (Mathis) and it is up to the player on the court to quickly digest and know (especially if he is a non-starter) that Mathis is not a shooter and that player is more likely to drive to the basket....
The assistant coaches are responsible for the defensive assignments for ALL college basketball programs at a major level. The game is moving too quickly to have just the head coach looking at sub patterns, who is coming in and out of games etc.
C) It is also the assistant coaches responsibility to know foul trouble of the opposition AND fouls of their own team.
D) It is also the assistants responsibility to know how many consecutive minutes has a player been on the court.....everything is measured....for an example, it was common knowledge that Myles Johnson was most effective in 4 minutes spurts and once he extended past 4 minutes, his impact declined, his conditioning declined and he was more apt to foul/reach or not get as many rebounds....if you could get Myles a 2 minute break, you would get maximum impact Myles, vs expecting him to be the same player, playing 32 to 33 minutes vs 24 to 26 minutes.....that same process is involved on how many minutes a guard plays etc.
During the Michigan game, Geo Baker played 39 minutes (I think) and then 27 vs Nebraska and then 34 vs Penn State.
If you watch any basketball game, especially in the B1G, opponents usually eliminate running any offense and just try to force an opposing defense to switch....once an opponent on offense runs a screen and roll, it is very physically taxing to guards on defense to constantly running or getting around screens of a bigger man, to stay in front of the guard with the ball.....Penn State ultimately ran screen and roll with whatever player Mulcahy was guarding, with the other Penn State guard who had the ball.
This offense makes Baker or Caleb, constantly fight over the top of the screen, which wears them down.....if Baker or Caleb don't fight over the screen and the defense "switches", it then puts Mulcahy in a spot, where he is now asked to guard a quicker offensive player.....
The assistant coaches are always either allowing the defensive players to "switch OR stay attached and to not switch on defense.
I know there are fans that somehow are looking for something specific to not like about RU basketball or Pike, but RU is not doing something that other programs are not also doing.
Common sense or logic would tell fans that if a program is not considered a program that is expected to win games and plays good defense most nights, then why would fans start to question things, that they have literally, no idea how in game things are conducted???
Why would a fan start a post, essentially with the intent to discredit our coaching staff??
If the results were what Nebraska showed on the court at the RAC or what RU looked like under Eddie Jordan, then I would understand the intent of the post....
A) Every program has a scouting report on the opposition and there is usually something as easy as a whiteboard with the numbers of the players who are subbing in and out of games during TV timeouts or regular timeouts.
During these timeouts, the assistant coaches on all teams are responsible for making sure that if X-player comes in off the bench, that the proper players on the floor, understand who is in the game from the opposition.......this is not rec-league basketball where you just guard whomever is in front of you.
B) with each player that comes into a game (let's use #23 & 42 for Mathis and Jacob Young), the opposing assistant is responsible to know who is subbing in from the opponent AND to make sure that you're not getting a mismatch on the floor, because you may have a player who cannot guard the incoming player.
So as an example, assistant coaches will look at a stat line of #23 (Mathis) and it is up to the player on the court to quickly digest and know (especially if he is a non-starter) that Mathis is not a shooter and that player is more likely to drive to the basket....
The assistant coaches are responsible for the defensive assignments for ALL college basketball programs at a major level. The game is moving too quickly to have just the head coach looking at sub patterns, who is coming in and out of games etc.
C) It is also the assistant coaches responsibility to know foul trouble of the opposition AND fouls of their own team.
D) It is also the assistants responsibility to know how many consecutive minutes has a player been on the court.....everything is measured....for an example, it was common knowledge that Myles Johnson was most effective in 4 minutes spurts and once he extended past 4 minutes, his impact declined, his conditioning declined and he was more apt to foul/reach or not get as many rebounds....if you could get Myles a 2 minute break, you would get maximum impact Myles, vs expecting him to be the same player, playing 32 to 33 minutes vs 24 to 26 minutes.....that same process is involved on how many minutes a guard plays etc.
During the Michigan game, Geo Baker played 39 minutes (I think) and then 27 vs Nebraska and then 34 vs Penn State.
If you watch any basketball game, especially in the B1G, opponents usually eliminate running any offense and just try to force an opposing defense to switch....once an opponent on offense runs a screen and roll, it is very physically taxing to guards on defense to constantly running or getting around screens of a bigger man, to stay in front of the guard with the ball.....Penn State ultimately ran screen and roll with whatever player Mulcahy was guarding, with the other Penn State guard who had the ball.
This offense makes Baker or Caleb, constantly fight over the top of the screen, which wears them down.....if Baker or Caleb don't fight over the screen and the defense "switches", it then puts Mulcahy in a spot, where he is now asked to guard a quicker offensive player.....
The assistant coaches are always either allowing the defensive players to "switch OR stay attached and to not switch on defense.
I know there are fans that somehow are looking for something specific to not like about RU basketball or Pike, but RU is not doing something that other programs are not also doing.
Common sense or logic would tell fans that if a program is not considered a program that is expected to win games and plays good defense most nights, then why would fans start to question things, that they have literally, no idea how in game things are conducted???
Why would a fan start a post, essentially with the intent to discredit our coaching staff??
If the results were what Nebraska showed on the court at the RAC or what RU looked like under Eddie Jordan, then I would understand the intent of the post....
I have never seen a complaint about substitution patterns in games we win. It isn’t like the patterns are any different.
However a question about a lineup without Geo AND Ron is a legitimate question.
I do think getting them rest is important and quite frankly when Geo doesn’t have it I think he loses that status of “we can’t not have Geo and Ron out at same time”
However a question about a lineup without Geo AND Ron is a legitimate question.
I do think getting them rest is important and quite frankly when Geo doesn’t have it I think he loses that status of “we can’t not have Geo and Ron out at same time”
So we go from blaming Pikiell for his rotations all year, to now blaming Pikiell for Knights rotations lol.
The rotations have never been perfect and I was not happy to see Palmquist flopping on the floor for 12 minutes (actually just 1 possession) while Jones sat on the bench.
But the rotations have also been pretty good the past couple years as well. Its pretty clear the staff got the most out of Young and Mathis last year for the benefit of the whole team (just look at what they’re doing with their new teams this year, and Young at Texas…).
Also, the staff recognized that a kid like McConnell was crucial to having a successful season and stuck with him during a tough month this year. If it was up to some people on here we would have been playing Jones and Hyatt for 30 + minutes a night, and they clearly weren’t ready for that. Hyatt is starting to come along, Jones now needs the opportunity to come along as well.
The rotations have never been perfect and I was not happy to see Palmquist flopping on the floor for 12 minutes (actually just 1 possession) while Jones sat on the bench.
But the rotations have also been pretty good the past couple years as well. Its pretty clear the staff got the most out of Young and Mathis last year for the benefit of the whole team (just look at what they’re doing with their new teams this year, and Young at Texas…).
Also, the staff recognized that a kid like McConnell was crucial to having a successful season and stuck with him during a tough month this year. If it was up to some people on here we would have been playing Jones and Hyatt for 30 + minutes a night, and they clearly weren’t ready for that. Hyatt is starting to come along, Jones now needs the opportunity to come along as well.
I wish Geo, Ron, Caleb and Paul had been more productive at the start of the game. A starter is also a self-starter, meaning they should be sufficiently warmed up and ready to go, both physically and mentally.
That was not the case in this game, and it forced our coaches into using some unusual substitution patterns and odd pairings with key starters on the bench at the same time.
That was not the case in this game, and it forced our coaches into using some unusual substitution patterns and odd pairings with key starters on the bench at the same time.
So Hawk what is your opinion on the actual substituting and more importantly to me why is Jaden not playing and does that concern you going forward(next year possible transfer)??
I have had many people text me about Jones and or Hyatt....I don't know what RU is supposed to do....
A) The defense is already compromised because Mulcahy is ultimately being scored on, off the dribble.....and Mulcahy is not scoring enough in his 30 minutes a game. Fans would be wise enough to understand that Geo and RHJ have had off-shooting games in the last 2 years....but you had either Yeboah, Mathis or Young picking up the slack on both offense and defense and rebounding and steals.....the downside to Mathis and Young on offense (if it's a downside) was the ability or goal to just score, instead of sticking to the offense.
So now, RU either has to play Jones to add offense BUT, you're already weaker because Mulcahy is a liability on defense.... if you add Jones and he doesn't appear like he has been asked to rebound in his past in HS or AAU, he needs to learn how to play tough in traffic on defense AND he doesn't appear to be completely engaged on defense......so you would have TWO liabilities on defense, unless you take Mulcahy out and add Jones in.
The requirement to take Mulcahy off the ball and not playing him as point guard on offense and moving him to a wing position, ultimately, reduces the minutes for Hyatt and or Jones and Mag......this is because Mulcahy cannot defend other teams guards as well as he can a wing), and forces the staff to play Geo and Caleb as your primary guards....
The staff also subbed in Jalen Miller early, in hopes that maybe players like Jones, would look and see Miller playing hungry, determined defense.....maybe Jones isn't that type of player, which you ultimately need in the B1G or most Power 5 programs........you're going to have to stick your nose into the paint.....Jones has to dial in on defense, get some rebounds....get tougher.....get stronger.....be able to fight over screens....
Caleb McConnell (to me) has a HS tape when Pike was recruiting him, that showed highlights of him shooting 3s and making drives to the hoop.....he was obviously skinny as a rail...
What Caleb has done, is buy in.....he's not the most difficult player to guard, but he has excellent footwork and moves, without being a great athlete.
Caleb has bought into being a defense 1st, team focused player.....I know you asked about Jones, but at some point, defense travels and the fans crying for shooting (to me) is losing basketball....Jones needs to decide if he wants to be a more talented or determined version of Caleb McConnell or just be a kid who parks at the 3 point line.....
Jones need to play earn his minutes by playing tougher.....Jalen Miller has significantly less skills on offense, has ultimately no proven jump shot and needs to rebuild his shooting motion IF he is going to be a complete player. BUT Miller is 1000% dialed in and determined on defense. Miller playing over Jones, should be a signal for Jones to pick up the intensity......
When does that light switch go from OFF to ON, for Jaden Jones????.... where will it be clearly apparent to me watching, that he cares about defense....???....when is he going to run full speed around a screen to stay on his man....???? That he's going to aggressively crash the boards...?? The film doesn't lie, I don't watch the player with the ball during games, everything about a player shows up, when the player doesn't have the ball or is focused on defense.
Jones is either going to produce, when Jones ultimately decides he wants it bad enough.....does he have that "toughness or bulldog" in him??
If you can get Jones to play stronger, play tougher and dial in, RU has a bona-fide starter next year and he then becomes the player projected in the rankings.....that is up to Jones to put the work in on BOTH ends of the court........the staff can only send so many crystal clear messages that other players like Palmquist or Reiber or Miller are using whatever abilities they have. Is Jones going to allow a player like Mag or Palmquist or a kid from the portal after this season, to wrestle away minutes, that he could earn??
It is kinda tough because on the other hand, Mulcahy is also really not a good defensive player, he is consistently put into a dilemma by opposing coaches and rarely, does Mulcahy come up with the stops on defense, on a consistent basis.....
SO, if you are saying Mulcahy or Jones or Mulcahy or Hyatt, you're just not getting scoring (6.7PPG from Mulcahy as a junior, to me is disappointing quite frankly, for 30 MPG)
OR
Hyatt is at 6PPG in around 16 to 17 MPG....Hyatt rebounds at a higher clip than anyone not named Cliff......Hyatt, if you played him 30MPG, would be around 10 to 12PPG.....or you live with just 6 or 7PPG from Mulcahy......
If you play Hyatt, you'll get better defense than Mulcahy and more rebounding and toughness and scoring......BUT, you lose the passing aspect, which is the strength of Mulcahy and his game.
OR
Do you play Jones, when he is not engaged in defensive mindsets, but can get you some 3s or offense???.......or will the conversation about Mag beating out Jones for minutes??
Mag defends, plays tough, rebounds and is improving....he just seems to be colliding with someone all the time and getting hurt.....but Mag doesn't have the fluid offense of Jones. He does everything else as good or better (defense, hustle, rebounding, etc).
That's as detailed as I can put it, when it comes to "sub patterns"....
But I still would not ever, expect Palmquist to play 12 to 15 minutes a game if he isn't defending or rebounding and really isn't on Jones level as a player. My hopes are Jones sees this BUT he just may not be that type of player now or in the future......
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Love your posts Hawk. Nice to read stuff from someone who seems to know what he's talking about. I am not as negative as you are about Paul's defense, however, because I think his help defense is pretty good and I don't think his on ball defense is that much worse than Geo's, for example. However, I agree that offensively Paul needs to produce more to compensate for his defensive shortcomings.
Agreed especially on Mulcahy and against Penn State he was also a liability on offense one of the issues is he looks so much to pass first that he is often not ready to shoot and many times he actually has easy shots in the lane but since he is not looking to shoot ends up throwing up these one handed shots;
As far as Jalen Miller I think he is overhyped on defense; watch the Penn State game his guy went by him 3 or 4 times and also he went under picks leaving his man wide open for 3 pointers so I think he can in time be a great defender I think he has a ways to go and by no means should be the first player off the bench and as in the Penn State game when we couldn't score at least try Jones
In looking at a sub pattern that asks you to choose between Oskar and Jaden you’ve got to look at multiple things. Neither are very good rebounders but edge goes to Oskar. Defensively, both are about even, that is subpar But Oskar has a bit more energy (maybe it’s just body language). Both came in known as shooters but neither have been lighting it up. Offensively, Jaden looks for his shot and I’m more confident that he can become a weapon on offense. I think Jaden is the one more likely to have a breakout game, then move forward. For that reason and the fact that I’d hate to see Jaden transfer (both from a production and perception POV), he’s the guy I’d prefer to see on the floor. If Oskar were a banger, it’d look different.
The patterns are always different and changing lol what are you watching???
Miller was redshirting now first off the bench
Agee was first big now he's not playing at all
Jones was in the rotation now he's completely out
Palm plays 0 minutes then double digits
Etc etc etc
Talking game to game. I thought it was a discussion about patterns within rotations
changing the rOration turned the season around
Not sure how one of Geo, RHJ or Clif isn’t on the floor at al times.
First substitution at 12:18 took out all 3.
A lineup of:
Reiber Hyatt, McConnel, Mulcahy and Miller.
Score went from 10-4 to 18-6 over the next 2min (Reiber dunk our only basket).