Zero chance Harper comes back. I also cant see a guy who has trouble scoring on PSU somehow making it in the League. He's just not good enough. He'll play in Europe and make good money.
GAME 15 Penn State: Feeble
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
If they haven’t learned the lessons by now it’s not happening with this group. Your kidding yourself if you think they learned anything other than they can go through the motions and still play 38 minutes next game.
I for one promise you I will never think this team is the best, haha. Seen tonight’s ‘performance’ way too many times from this group. I’ll still root for them and enjoy any run they have left in them, but will always watch nervously and never will i consider this group to be the best.
Or when they play poorly we don’t have anyone else who can score, so we lose. It’s not some psychic sulking episode because you don’t like our only two scorers.
Psychic sulking? That sounds serious
You had no issue with Geo and Ron's level of intensity, effort, passion, and/or sense of urgency today?
Every season, it's the same nonsense and overreacting and unfortunately, as a college sports fan, no one wants to understand it....
No one wants to ever say "College Basketball is like the NBA".....I know it's sacrilegious to say this, but ultimately it is true....some fans will say "no it's not, because they don't play in back to back nights (until they do in a conference tournament setting).
Some fans will say "NBA players don't care.....or they don't play defense every night......or they don't show up sometimes, so that's why I don't watch the NBA".....but you read Twitter or comments about the up and down performances of CBB (or here about RU), and think it's different??? Why, because in a college sports fans warped reality, they want to believe it???
Others will say, "the NBA areans aren't exciting or the environment is boring".....
Well, if you are equating what a drab arena, drab opponent, drab environment is like, it is playing at Penn State....
"But Hawk, they just played so well in their last 2 (or last 4) games at home, how come they don't bring that same energy on the road???"
I could overreact and say, RU has elite talent and should be 6-4 or 7-3 on the road in the B1G.....they should beat a similarly talented PSU team on the road.......and go 10-0 or 9-1 @ the RAC....that would be 15-5 or 16-4 overall.........whic even the elite teams, don't consistently go 17-3 or 16-4....or even 15-5.........they usually land at 14-6, 13 -7 over 20 games in the B1G....
So, is RU armed with an elite roster?? I would say they have 2 to 3 players who at times, can play lights out.....but part of the coverage on BTN, showed "Top 10 B1G players of the year candidates "
Trevion Williams (Purdue)
Zach Edey ( Purdue)
Jaden Ivey (Purdue)
Johnny Davis (Wisconsin)
Hunter Dickinson (Michigan)
Trace Jackson-Davis (Indiana)
EJ Liddell (OSU)
Keegan Murray (Iowa)
Kofi Cockburn (Illinois)
Gabe Brown (Sparty)
Once you get past these 10 players or unique players, there are a LARGE amount of front line players across the B1G, who can really play....so why am I bringing this up??
We have RHJ, Baker, Cliff and as of today I can argue Harper should be in the Top 10 players of the B1G.....but the league is balanced and games are tough to win.....is RHJ better than the other 10 listed?? Some days yes, but if you lack the consistently good efforts, can we place a player there and expect him to carry a roster to a 14-6 type of B1G season??
I think if most RU fans were truthful about the schedule at the start and saw Illinois, Purdue, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, Maryland as your 1st 6 games, what would you have expected??? Would 5-1 been likely, 4-2....or 2-4 or did I see 1-5, "because RU was going to start 0-3 in the B1G".
I don't know where this roster is going to develop into, but I never thought it was an elite Top 5 B1G roster....I think the preseason rankings had RU in a 8 to 10-11 range......
If RU had a chance to be 9-1 or 8-2 vs the B1G at home and 3-7 on the road, is that where you expected?? Or is that overachieving??
I know RU "needs road wins".....but I think the bigger picture is RU doesn't have dominant talent, yet the fans believe it should dominate and win 5 to 6 B1G road games....who actually does that???
Maybe RU isn't good enough, maybe Pike hasn't done a good job with Jaden Jones or Mag with a plan of development......and he doesn't seem to have a plan for Aundre Hyatt.....or the transfer portal....maybe this roster isn't elite??
But CBB is not "show up and roll teams on the road"......move onto Maryland folks....life on the road is ugly and not fun most nights......
No one wants to ever say "College Basketball is like the NBA".....I know it's sacrilegious to say this, but ultimately it is true....some fans will say "no it's not, because they don't play in back to back nights (until they do in a conference tournament setting).
Some fans will say "NBA players don't care.....or they don't play defense every night......or they don't show up sometimes, so that's why I don't watch the NBA".....but you read Twitter or comments about the up and down performances of CBB (or here about RU), and think it's different??? Why, because in a college sports fans warped reality, they want to believe it???
Others will say, "the NBA areans aren't exciting or the environment is boring".....
Well, if you are equating what a drab arena, drab opponent, drab environment is like, it is playing at Penn State....
"But Hawk, they just played so well in their last 2 (or last 4) games at home, how come they don't bring that same energy on the road???"
I could overreact and say, RU has elite talent and should be 6-4 or 7-3 on the road in the B1G.....they should beat a similarly talented PSU team on the road.......and go 10-0 or 9-1 @ the RAC....that would be 15-5 or 16-4 overall.........whic even the elite teams, don't consistently go 17-3 or 16-4....or even 15-5.........they usually land at 14-6, 13 -7 over 20 games in the B1G....
So, is RU armed with an elite roster?? I would say they have 2 to 3 players who at times, can play lights out.....but part of the coverage on BTN, showed "Top 10 B1G players of the year candidates "
Trevion Williams (Purdue)
Zach Edey ( Purdue)
Jaden Ivey (Purdue)
Johnny Davis (Wisconsin)
Hunter Dickinson (Michigan)
Trace Jackson-Davis (Indiana)
EJ Liddell (OSU)
Keegan Murray (Iowa)
Kofi Cockburn (Illinois)
Gabe Brown (Sparty)
Once you get past these 10 players or unique players, there are a LARGE amount of front line players across the B1G, who can really play....so why am I bringing this up??
We have RHJ, Baker, Cliff and as of today I can argue Harper should be in the Top 10 players of the B1G.....but the league is balanced and games are tough to win.....is RHJ better than the other 10 listed?? Some days yes, but if you lack the consistently good efforts, can we place a player there and expect him to carry a roster to a 14-6 type of B1G season??
I think if most RU fans were truthful about the schedule at the start and saw Illinois, Purdue, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, Maryland as your 1st 6 games, what would you have expected??? Would 5-1 been likely, 4-2....or 2-4 or did I see 1-5, "because RU was going to start 0-3 in the B1G".
I don't know where this roster is going to develop into, but I never thought it was an elite Top 5 B1G roster....I think the preseason rankings had RU in a 8 to 10-11 range......
If RU had a chance to be 9-1 or 8-2 vs the B1G at home and 3-7 on the road, is that where you expected?? Or is that overachieving??
I know RU "needs road wins".....but I think the bigger picture is RU doesn't have dominant talent, yet the fans believe it should dominate and win 5 to 6 B1G road games....who actually does that???
Maybe RU isn't good enough, maybe Pike hasn't done a good job with Jaden Jones or Mag with a plan of development......and he doesn't seem to have a plan for Aundre Hyatt.....or the transfer portal....maybe this roster isn't elite??
But CBB is not "show up and roll teams on the road"......move onto Maryland folks....life on the road is ugly and not fun most nights......
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Poor effort by RU, especially Ron and Geo. Team plays like it doesn't care if they win or lose.
Penn St played like we used to play before this year.
Penn St played like we used to play before this year.
A good part of the reason the offense was effective during the short winning streak was because we pushed the ball and found open shots on the break or the secondary break. We had none of that yesterday. Penn State got back on defense forcing us into a half court offense 100% of the time and tougher shots. Once we couldn’t score the effort declined.
Caleb had the ball waaay too much on the offense. Just seemed like they didn't know what to do with ball which led to many sloppy passes and turnovers.
Agree, but also think he felt like he had to because nobody else was doing anything.
I also find it frustrating we don't run off ball screens for RHR to get him open for catch and shoot which he does well. He just sort of hangs out there and waits if something opens up. He can't really create his own outside shot.
Penn State's game plan was to take out RHJ. They did it well, and RHJ seemingly helped by not moving without the ball on offense.
Jaden Jones?Pikiell knows best. His defense is lacking, and offensively still not there.
Pikiell likely proves this board wrong time and time again.
Seeing progress from certain players. Their gameplan worked.
Jaden Jones?Pikiell knows best. His defense is lacking, and offensively still not there.
Pikiell likely proves this board wrong time and time again.
Seeing progress from certain players. Their gameplan worked.
Rutgers had to know what was facing them ahead of time. Except for two maybe 3 guys they pretty much curled into the fetal position.
They watched the film. We were not able to post them up like we did against Michigan
and Nebraska. They were ready for it. Consequently, our ball movement suffered
I think the last 3 to 4 years of B1G play shows the average number of road wins in conference games is around 2.5 to 3 out of 10.....if RU goes 0 for the road, then we can have a larger discussion.
The formula, like it or not, is to defend home court....it is especially important in a league where the venues or arenas are usually packed and teams play 65 to 70% better than average at home vs road.
Fans complaining have a right to complain.....I am never going to defend an effort that isn't good, but the same discussion happens year after year, for team after team, regardless of what message boards you read....
I know, this is a RU message board and what happens across the other 13 schools in the same conference, doesn't apply to RU.....let's ignore the other 13 trends in the conference and only focus on RU......
The formula, like it or not, is to defend home court....it is especially important in a league where the venues or arenas are usually packed and teams play 65 to 70% better than average at home vs road.
Fans complaining have a right to complain.....I am never going to defend an effort that isn't good, but the same discussion happens year after year, for team after team, regardless of what message boards you read....
I know, this is a RU message board and what happens across the other 13 schools in the same conference, doesn't apply to RU.....let's ignore the other 13 trends in the conference and only focus on RU......
You write a lot but don’t actually say anything. It’s quite impressive.
Cliff 6-9, 4 TOs, Caleb 2-6, 2ast, 4 TOs,
RHJ 2-9, 2ast, 3 TOs, Paul 2-6, 4ast, 2 TOs
Geo 3-12, 3pt 1-8, mostly forced and off dribble, 1 ast, 0 TO
Geo 22ast(5.5), Caleb 13ast(3.3), Paul 27ast(6.8), 62 asts(15.5) last 4 games
7 total last night.
Bench 37 minutes, 4-14(Hyatt 1-7), 1 ast, 1TO
It's like they stuck 9 individuals on the court for the first time together and said win a game, no one was working together., no communication. They seem to be more distracted by the Penn St students then their horrible play on the floor.
RHJ 2-9, 2ast, 3 TOs, Paul 2-6, 4ast, 2 TOs
Geo 3-12, 3pt 1-8, mostly forced and off dribble, 1 ast, 0 TO
Geo 22ast(5.5), Caleb 13ast(3.3), Paul 27ast(6.8), 62 asts(15.5) last 4 games
7 total last night.
Bench 37 minutes, 4-14(Hyatt 1-7), 1 ast, 1TO
It's like they stuck 9 individuals on the court for the first time together and said win a game, no one was working together., no communication. They seem to be more distracted by the Penn St students then their horrible play on the floor.
No one wants to hear it, but this is true. Tough to do as an emotional fan, but we need to look at this in bigger batches.
However there are things that have been mostly constant over the years in these losses. I don’t really know if they are addressable at this point.
More distracted by the PSU defense. Don’t want to be that guy, I was worried that this was going to happen when we faced a well coached team whose goal was to get us out of our comfort zone offensively.
What some of you are saying about the intensity and effort isn’t entirely true. We played solid defense in the first half. They scored only 27 points. It’s not so easy to maintain defensive intensity when shot after shot doesn’t fall your way and I felt we grinded it out pretty well that half considering nothing went our way on offense.
We crumbled in the second half when the shots continued to not fall and also started playing sloppy in frustration. It’s that simple. Look no further than the scoreboard. We had only one player in double figures (12 points). Nobody else has more than 7. It’s hard to win when that happens - even with very good defense throughout.
We crumbled in the second half when the shots continued to not fall and also started playing sloppy in frustration. It’s that simple. Look no further than the scoreboard. We had only one player in double figures (12 points). Nobody else has more than 7. It’s hard to win when that happens - even with very good defense throughout.
It will definitely be an interesting decision.
I'm also starting to wonder if he takes the extra COVID year and comes back next season.
Despite the annual "Say Goodbye. RHJ is going to get drafted" threads (which coincidentally hasn't shown up yet this year), he has minimal chance of being drafted after this year.
He clearly has NBA aspirations with entering the last draft and dragging out his return until the last possible moment - despite everyone knowing he would be coming back.
The question comes down to: Are you done with playing college basketball at Rutgers or do you want to go play most likely in the G-League/Europe?
Indeed, aside from Cliff I thought everyone looked flat. My point was that it’s not about “Ron and Geo’s body language” - it’s about our only two consistent explosive scorers having off nights putting the ball in the hoop - that’s what negatively affected the team, not the two leaders sulking. I’m a huge Pike fan, but that’s his job to get everyone up. We win when our two shooters go off and we lose when they don’t - not because of sulking (whereas if they had been smiling they would have been criticized for that as well) - but because of lack of a consistent third scoring option.
Just went back and checked the average # of conference road wins by team for the last 4 years.
2020-21: 3.9 (pandemic year with limited fan attendance)
2019-20: 3.1
2018-19: 3.6
2017-18: 3.2
Looking at the 4 year average by team:
5.8 - MSU
5.3 - Michigan
5.0 - Wisconsin
5.0 - Purdue
4.3 - OSU
4.0 - Maryland
3.8 - Illinois
3.3 - Iowa
3.0 - Penn State
2.8 - Rutgers
2.8 - Indiana
1.5 - Northwestern
1.5 - Nebraska
1.3 - Minnesota
There have only been 3 seasons where a team has had zero road wins during that span:
2017-18 Rutgers
2019-20 Nebraska
2020-21 Minnesota
The max has been 8 wins, which has been accomplished twice:
2017-18 MSU (NCAA 3 seed)
2020-21 Illinois (NCAA 1 seed)
Don’t you think it’s a head scratcher that Jaden Jones sees no minutes in a game that turned out to be a blowout and Palmquist got 12?
The pendulum certainly swings fast in the message board world. This game had stinker written all over it. It was a mid-January Tuesday night road game after a Saturday home game where everything goes right, against a mediocre (but certainly competent) opponent that has been on-campus for the past week. In college basketball if you are not Gonzaga, Villanova, Kansas, etc. this game is a recipe for disaster. The Nebraska game did not change the fact that this is a mediocre squad that has some RAC magic and can squeeze out a few RHJ and/or Geo hot streak wins.
From an outsider's perspective, RU has a good starting lineup which on some nights can beat and /or sometimes dominate almost any Team (e.g. Purdue, Michigan, Nebraska) when clicking on all cylindars. Unfortunately, however, RU has a significant lack of quality depth. Depth not only in terms of replacing injured players, but also in terms of coming up with answers and sparks when the starting 5 just doesn't have it in a particular game.
Bac, Well written post mortem. I will make it simpler than your post. They came out with little energy and couldn't sink a basket last night. There were plenty of opportunities and in the second half I thought they finally would amp up the energy and take control of the game but it never materialized. I have no doubt we were the better team but that was one stinky fart of a game. With that said, I am convinced these guys when, firing on all cylinders can beat highly rated teams, They showed it with Perdue and Michigan. I stil have confidence in Pike and the team, onwards to Maryland. Go RU!
You are probably right but we were starting to see the Bench , Hyatt and Reiber play better and Miller gives us defensive effort. What is mind numbing is the court is still 94 feet , the basket is 10 feet high , the 3 point line is the same , but we can hardly ever translate a great effort , intensity , and good shooting effort to the road. As I have mentioned in other threads it is totally mental and Pike needs to get a shrink.
Yep, the Team looking damn good at the RAC against Purdue and during the 3 game winning streak. It also looked good for most of the game at SHU. Hyatt, Reiber, Mags and Miller show promise, but they currently do not have the firepower to take over games. As such, wins are going to happen on the backs of the starting 5, particularly Baker, Harper and Cliff, who can be dominant when they have their A games going.
The home / road splits are so hard to understand. It is almost impossible to play 2 games back to back 3 days apart and for nothing from the 93 point win , neither shooting , effort , intensity or rebounding , or defense , to carry over to last night . Not the confidence , nor momentum , nor shooting , nor passing , nor dribbling carried over. Just bizarre and frustrating as a Rutgers fan
Sulking: Not driving to the rim, not getting any rebounds, not giving 100 % percent on D, no motion or movement, passive watching, poor body language, appearing disinterested. I don’t think anybody is actually commenting on the players’ smiles. SMH.
Not only that, but that’s not even a real home court. It’s a cavernous half empty arena. Yesterday tells me that we probably also lose to them on a neutral court.
Sulking: Not driving to the rim, not getting any rebounds, not giving 100 % percent on D, no motion or movement, passive watching, poor body language, appearing disinterested. I don’t think anybody is actually commenting on the players’ smiles. SMH.
You just said body language…that **** doesn’t matter. If the shots were dropping, body language would be better. If they were all Rah-Rah but not making shots, we still lose. And please explain the difference between passive watching and appearing disinterested - it’s the same thing, and wouldn’t have been an issue if the shots were dropping. They weren’t, so we lost. You think if Ron and Geo became cheerleaders Oskar was suddenly going to drop 20?
You just said body language…that **** doesn’t matter. If the shots were dropping, body language would be better. If they were all Rah-Rah but not making shots, we still lose. And please explain the difference between passive watching and appearing disinterested - it’s the same thing, and wouldn’t have been an issue if the shots were dropping. They weren’t, so we lost. You think if Ron and Geo became cheerleaders Oskar was suddenly going to drop 20?
Standing passively around the three point line? No movement at all? No cuts to the baskets? Keep moving. Make something happen when your shot isn’t falling. Two rebounds? Drive to the basket. Act like an All American candidate. Not talking about cheering or smiles but playing smart, hard, aggressive and putting in a 100% effort.
in fact, in the first half it was the bench who provided some signs of life.. not the starters
I don't have a lot to say about that game... but the players and coaches have to know what they did differently.. FIX IT.. or just quit on the season. It is gut-check time... AGAIN.