Don't disagree our offense is disfunctional but even rec kids are taught not to do what he is doing when he picks up his dribble in the lane.
Paul buried on bench
- Thread starter SBP
- Start date
Is that his fault or his teammates/the offense?
Largely his, partially his teammates. There’s been a noticeable difference recently when McConnell has been running the offense vs. Paul. Even when RHJ brings it up the floor I’d say it’s been an improvement.
He had that open 3 against Purdue and Gillis came out of nowhere for an incredible block. That has to do something to his confidence. Wide open and then you get rejected. He needs space to get his shot off. But he has to take 3's and he's just about the best percentage wise we have from beyond the arc. Plays hard. Winning player with some limitations.
Pike, then PM. He is playing point. It’s his job to run the offense.
I'd say it is NOT largely his.. because we have a 2-year history with him where we know he looks to pass.. to a fault sometimes.
Then again.. I do not like what I see from him in terms of forcing his shot, tossing up weak-*** junk when he should be throwing his body into the defender and going up strong...
PM looks like he has a strong frame.. time for him to use it. He took a shoulder to his face on D recently and barely staggered back where other basketball players would have hit the floor crying for a call... makes his avoidance of contact in the lane strange.
Get the contact and THEN throw up that weak-*** stuff if you must.
But in some ways it looks like it is a frustration shot because no one is giving him a target.
A few games back now.. don't remember which one.. PM dribbled along the key on the side of RHJ who was closely guarded at the arc. PM was clearly looking to draw teh attention of RHJ's defender... and when that happened PM got ready to pass to RHJ who SHOULD have been moving along the arc to the more open spot... instead PM had to drop the ball off where NO ONE was.. hoping that RHJ would make a move to it... and he barely did.. and when he gathered it in.. well.. I don't recall if he got a shot off or not.. but if he had moved to that spot and got his feet ready for a catch and shoot.. it might actually have looked like BASKETBALL.
At this point in the season.. this stuff should be automatic. They should know eachother so well...
can everyone remember the beginning of last season when it looked like that? PM playing was not an issue then.. and it should not be now. I do not think PM is the problem.
At this point we need all of them. We’re talking about 4 guys rotating the 3 perimeter spots (Caleb, Paul, Geo and Mag). Plenty of minutes to go around. Hyatt should shift to back up 4-5 in my opinion. He hasn’t impressed as a perimeter player but his interior defense is solid. He can’t be worse than Agee.
Right now that should be the core line up. Anyone pushing for Jones to play more for offense needs to check his stats. There’s a massive drop off from Paul’s defense to Jones - and that says a lot because Paul is not a good defender - he is just much less of a liability than Jones is. When your the worst perimeter defender on the team, you need to shoot better than 23% from 3 and 37% overall to make a case for meaningful PT. Now that may change as the season progresses but for now this is the situation.
I know this is hard to believe but drawing fouls because a player has an ability to generate his own shot, is not a stat.....but common sense would tell you to not be foolish enough to look at stats.
Let's do this as an exercise.
If you watched the Purdue game, Jones got into the game and there was no Baker....RU really struggled to score and with nothing going on, Jones took his man to the hoop and drew a foul...he missed his 2 FTs, but when you get to the line, 3 things happen.
You get the FTs.
You get a break and rest
You allow your defense to be set on the next possession.
Jones at least draws fouls....Mulcahy doesn't....
And the more important "game situation "....if you have 2 players and you are on offense and the ball gets to Mulcahy or Jaden Jones with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, which player do you feel most comfortable with having the ball....??
These are actual situations that are scouted....Mulcahy does not have an offensive move that he can go to, if he is 25 feet, 20 feet or anywhere around the arc, to generate his own shot or offense.....if you are watching the games, that is a "win" for the defense, if Mulcahy lands with the ball under 10 on the shot clock.
Jones, playing less than 10 games in his career vs Mulcahy, at around 70 games.....do we want to wager that Jones isn't going to improve his defense and actually score in his next 20 games.....?? What gives us any indication, that Mulcahy has added anything to his offense to improve this aspect of his game....should we expect Mulcahy to get better??
There is nothing further honestly to discuss with which player is a better shooter and player who can create his own shot and offense. I can expect a player to improve his defense, by playing more, so even if Jones is a freshman, he is at least going to score to offset whatever is potentially given up on the defensive end.....shouldn't Mulcahy be required to provide something in terms of scoring and shooting from the perimeter (not necessarily 3s)????
I agree that Paul needs to put some points on the board, but I think it's more likely that Paul will start scoring some points than for Jones to improve his defense. Going into B10 play, I'll take Paul over Jones if it's an either or as you seem to make it. And I'm not down on Jones.
Maybe at some point late season Pike will decide he’s entirely playing for the future. We’re not there yet though and Jones’ defense isn’t just your typical work in progress. He’s been completely out of position on nearly every possession. At present, his playing 25+ minutes in a game against any decent team will all but guarantee we give up 85+ points.
Jones may well develop into a good player one day for RU, but the minute I saw his defense I knew it wouldn’t be this year.
Until Mulchey shows some ability to score, we are 4 or 5 on offense. He's not even creating to make it 4.5 to 5.
Jones has drawn 4 fouls all season so far (8 free throw attempts). He didn’t help us win the Purdue game and he was lucky he got the call that was referenced. It could’ve just as easily been a play on - actually every second he was on the floor he looked ill to me - like a kid struggling with the flu. So it’s no surprise he didn’t play much that day.
So far, most of Jones points have come against bad mid majors or when we were down big against Illinois. Again - he obviously was a highly rated recruit for a reason so I’m hopeful he turns out to be great for us, but it’s really grasping at straws to point to anything he’s done to say he’s earned meaningful PT he’s not getting. When your defense starts off as bad as his did, to justify playing you have to stand out as a much bigger contributor on offense than the other options and so far against meaningful competition he hasn’t done that except for hitting a couple shots when we were down big against Illinois.
I’m far from a huge Paul fan (mostly because of his limitations on defense) but this just isn’t true.
He had 8 assists against Purdue and 7 in the Clemson game. He had a bad game against SHU, but to say he universally has not been creating is unfair.
I think Jones is a significantly worse defender, rebounder and ball distributor than Paul right now so I’m not on the bandwagon for shifting Paul’s time to him - but if Jones should get more PT from anyone it would have to be Paul IMO which circles back to a point I made early season. We simply can’t afford to have Paul and Jones defending in the perimeter together for any meaningful stretches. That’s why I came on so strong early against the “sit Caleb for Jones” campaign even with Caleb bricking every shot attempt. I don’t see a path to us competing with Paul and Jones playing a lot together unless we see major improvements on defense from at least one of them - possible but you don’t usually see that much development on D intra season.
This is a PM thread, but since Jones has entered the conversation we may as well talk about him.
As always IMO….Jones is what he is and unfortunately we’ll all be waiting a long time for him to evolve into the player you envision.
Just like a QB who’s BORN with the gifts of awareness, innateness, savvy and ability to move around the pocket you can’t teach, so are basketball players who find open space, create their own shot, move effortlessly without the ball, innately clog passing lanes and contort their bodies on defense without having to think about it.
The speed and physicality of the game is the only adjustment you need to make, if you do those other things instinctively.
It’s not like Jones is active and moving and just doesn’t know where to go.
Sadly I don’t think you can teach him or coach him to be what we envisioned he’d be
As always IMO….Jones is what he is and unfortunately we’ll all be waiting a long time for him to evolve into the player you envision.
Just like a QB who’s BORN with the gifts of awareness, innateness, savvy and ability to move around the pocket you can’t teach, so are basketball players who find open space, create their own shot, move effortlessly without the ball, innately clog passing lanes and contort their bodies on defense without having to think about it.
The speed and physicality of the game is the only adjustment you need to make, if you do those other things instinctively.
It’s not like Jones is active and moving and just doesn’t know where to go.
Sadly I don’t think you can teach him or coach him to be what we envisioned he’d be
I think the next 3 games is a chance for Pike to try to get Paul into a role that better suits the team. A scrappy, pass first, rebounding SF… maybe he sees that Caleb has grown into a point guard with his quickness on both sides, and ability to get to the hole effectively
The assists help for now, which is why I can see 4.5. But at some point, that will be taken away unless he is confident and willing to take the shots. He just seems very unsure and unconfortable with taking shots even in the paint. As long as that continues teams can play loose off of him and focus on doubling Ron and/or Geo, our only real scoring threats.
I just rewatched the Clemson / Rutgers NCAA game from last year yesterday. Paul was not handling the ball on top as it was Geo and Jacob . I didn’t realize how bad we played and we did not play well but after being down at the half , Paul hit 2 threes including a corner one and a drive from the wing. He can be that player again. Get ready to hit that corner 3 on ball reversal and kick out or crash weak side for rebounds and put backs or cuts to the middle or baseline . Geo and Caleb can get us into our offense without Paul’s endless dribbling. He has to become an offensive threat again. Too many games with 0 points and terrible shots.
I dunno.. players "creating their own shots" is what makes our offense look like crap.
I think you are over-valuing that ability.
Needs to do less back to the basket and more attacking and pushing the pace. He needs to stop dribbling into the paint and growing roots there. If you not going there to score or draw defender and assist on a layup you have no business going there. His game is waaaaay to slow and methodical. Someone needs to jumps start his heart and just attack more
Agreed, there’s a lot of innate, un-coachable, ability to see the floor and anticipate your teammates movements going on there.
Instinctual players with high basketball IQ sense if they have a shot or a good chance to create their own good shot before they even get the ball, they are one step ahead of real time.
I think you're overestimating Jones' ability to get to the line based on one anecdotal play. Other than that play against Purdue, his only trips to the line were against Merrimack and Lafayette. The only rotational guy who gets to the line less often than Jones is Mulcahy, so he is better at it by comparison - but that's a very very low bar to clear.
Caleb does not have the handle to be a PG. We don't want him using up energy (physical and mental) bringing the ball up court every possesion. Many coaches will smell blood in the water when he is the PG and put pressure on him.
Agree he's not a traditional point guard, but he's largely been running the point when he's been in the game, and he's historically done very well protecting the ball. His assist rate has gone up this year while his turnover rate has remained steady.
He has surprised me with his decisions lately in finding the open guy. There have been times in the past where he flat out misses open people (or worse sees them and not passing). The problem I don't have confidence in his handle. I am also a big proponent of the concept of mental fatigue and I always think putting pressure on a guard is like putting money in a piggy bank. It adds up and could pay dividends late in the game. I think Caleb needs to be as fresh as possible, especially when there is 5 minutes left.
Kinda wondering if that's why we see PM putting up weak stuff near the basket.. that he has put so much into protecting the ball in a PG role.
Maybe we're just too tall a team, overall.
As for Caleb.., some of his dishes have been nice.. others seemed "automatic".. as pass was not "there" but he did it anyway assuming a lane would open up. And then you got that no-look shuffle pass to Agee.. who was not the guy who could handle it.. Cliff woulda jammed that home making it look like a spectacular pass rather than a turnover.
Nevermind the outdated notion of a PG. That's irrelevant in today's game. Besides sometimes advancing the ball into the frontcourt and making the first frontcourt pass in a possession, anyone may make the next passes depending on the ball movement.
Teams don't need point guards. They need players who pass, cut and maintain spacing and can shoot and create good shots off the dribble. Paul doesn't do all of those things so we're playing mostly 4 on 5 with him on the court. Myles couldn't either, but he played solid D. Paul doesn't even do that.
Teams don't need point guards. They need players who pass, cut and maintain spacing and can shoot and create good shots off the dribble. Paul doesn't do all of those things so we're playing mostly 4 on 5 with him on the court. Myles couldn't either, but he played solid D. Paul doesn't even do that.
To that point.. I am tired of watching games seeing other teams "point guards" repeatedly carry the ball, travel, even double dribble with no call.. and often taking extra steps to make the "perfect pass"... it is disgusting.. but if that is going to be allowed.. our guys should start doing it rather than struggle to follow the rules. That can easily turn a guy whose handle isn't really good enough to play point into a PG and assist and scoring machine.
In the famous ending to the Purdue game.. Williams clearly traveled on his last score.. 3 steps!
Gotcha. That's interesting because when he was in high school I really liked Mulcahy's feel for the game.
Outside of 1 or 2 games this year he’s looked like a totally different player from last season (when I thought he was a major factor down the stretch)
Climbing the levels of competition and continuing to dominate is what high level sports is all about.
Of course he was a standout in high school and at every level previous…
His strong point is his Passing. Problem is he is passing to weak shooters,
We need to change recruiting priorities.
I think we catch Jones WATCHING too often.. in fact, that goes for a lot of our players this year and in a couple games.. good games.. they were NOT doing that.
It is just so weird AND disheartening. We see a piss poor performance by nearly everyone followed up by a tou8gh, good performance... and we think.. it is about time.. finally they "GET IT".. and then we see the bad habits come right back the next game.
It is maddening. How could the players themselves NOT see what is happening?