Only feasible Big Ten expansion scenario includes 6 to 9 Pac-12 teams

zeek55

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Nov 21, 2010
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Because of the ACC's GoR until 2036 and the lack of markets/value of Big 12 remaining teams, the only near-term expansion possibility is to take 6 to 9 teams from the Pac-12 due to their GoR and tv deal expiring (and coincidentally main broadcast partner being with Fox just like the Big Ten).

The most likely teams are USC, UCLA, UCB, Stanford, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Colorado, and Utah. The "State" teams all overlap markets and are non-AAU so those 3 would be left out. It's possible as well that Utah also gets left out due to how much smaller its market/brand are than the other 8 (state is half the size and it's new on the Power 5 scene).

I'd envision the first 8 of those Pac-12 teams in the Big Ten bringing roughly $60-80 million per team to the league after the TV deals are revamped; we'd basically match the 16 team SEC in terms of TV money per team with those 8 in a 22 team Big Ten.

The way scheduling would work is basically 2 possibilities: 1) Lock 4-6 permanent games per team and rotate the rest or 2) to mitigate travel make 6 games region locked (i.e. 3 permanent locked games and 3 that rotate among other nearby teams), then at most you may have 1 or 2 far away flights per team.
So like USC would be locked with the other 3 Cali teams and then play 3 more games among the other Pac-8 and then 3 games against current Big Ten. Just tossing out an example.

The reason the Pac-12 teams would consider this is: the Pac-12 Networks have been a total disaster. Still under 20 million subscribers for that network and it gives less than $3 million per team. Even with such a disastrous network situation, the Pac-12 gives $35 million per team in distributions and we all know most of that value is from the top teams USC/UCLA/UCB/Washington/Oregon; those 5 teams are probably worth $80 million per team if combined with the Big Ten.

Also, Fox would only have to give big money to the Big Ten, basically can cancel their Pac-12 deal and Big 12 deal or reduce them down to $10 million per leftover team if those 2 leftovers combine.

The timing lines up perfectly if the decision makers at USC/UCLA see no future for the Pac-12 to be able to maintain its own network and want to consider a big change by dragging 6 others to the Big Ten.
 
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mosito

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Why not 2-4...? and come back later....

Agree ESPN wants 2 leagues... but ultimately because that means that 2 conferences took the main teams from other conferences.... while throwing pennies at the others for content as needed.
 

bryanjints

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A 25-team conference isnt a conference, it’s a league. This is what ESPN wants, 2 “leagues” about the top 40-50ish teams and the rest of colleges can eat dust. Except that destroys the very tradition of college sports that makes it so great

The tradition of college sports was lost long ago. Billions and billions of dollars made off college football alone.
 
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ecojew

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I sincerely hope that nothing like this happens. I think that it is far better for the two conferences to agree to scheduling OOC games against one another but having 20+ universities forced to schedule cross-continent games in all sports is just too much money and too much time lost by athletes in classes, to say nothing about how crossing so many time zones so often can lead to wear + tear on their bodies.

I really hope that college sports doesn't come to this. It's really time for the universities, their presidents, and their Boards of Trustees to stand up to the Evil Empire that is Disney/ESPN and just say "no."
 

Jimjimminy

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Oct 20, 2018
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The B1G should be on the phone with Notre Dane today. They are geographically a good fit. Now the the handwriting is on the wall, ND should wise up. They could be left out.

Then, get one more school to go to 16. Poach the ACC despite the dollar buyout.
 

koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
37,464
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A 25-team conference isnt a conference, it’s a league. This is what ESPN wants, 2 “leagues” about the top 40-50ish teams and the rest of colleges can eat dust. Except that destroys the very tradition of college sports that makes it so great
This^^^^.

ESPN wants to cut back on the inventory so they only have to pay for "X" amount of teams. They want an NFL style league in College Football. They only want the Premier teams left and want the rest to eat sh*t and die so there's no competition. Some might think it's great, I think it's horrible what they're trying to do to College Football.
 

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,298
16,009
73
someone said this right

you might have the big 10 and pac 12 conference MERGE to form a LEAGUE

that geographic and staying power with both confrences having major alliances with fox ...that’s the answer to the regional dominance the SEC Will establish by either forming a league of the ACC or poaching the best of the ACC
 

zeek55

Junior
Nov 21, 2010
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Why not 2-4...? and come back later....

Agree ESPN wants 2 leagues... but ultimately because that means that 2 conferences took the main teams from other conferences.... while throwing pennies at the others for content as needed.
Because Fox isn't going to want to give the remaining Pac members $30-40 million a year?

Fox probably wants the Big Ten to take as many members as it wants and then the rest will join the Big 12 or AAC or something like that.

That's why the Big Ten would take all 6-9 members that it wants in one go and right as the Big Ten's contract is up for renegotiation.

Also Pac-12 might do another 25 year GoR once you take 2 members. We're not waiting another 25 years to grab more if we want more now. You have to grab the teams you want now before they do another GoR.
 

Ridge 22

Heisman
Jun 30, 2007
7,815
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I sincerely hope that nothing like this happens. I think that it is far better for the two conferences to agree to scheduling OOC games against one another but having 20+ universities forced to schedule cross-continent games in all sports is just too much money and too much time lost by athletes in classes, to say nothing about how crossing so many time zones so often can lead to wear + tear on their bodies.

I really hope that college sports doesn't come to this. It's really time for the universities, their presidents, and their Boards of Trustees to stand up to the Evil Empire that is Disney/ESPN and just say "no."
Good. You take your stand and just say no. All while the SEC and ESPN continue to orchestrate their takeover of college football. People need to wake up and start to see the bigger picture. What we want and being tied to nastalgic versions of the past aren't as relevant today as they were a few weeks ago before the world got a look at what the SEC was up to.
 
Oct 19, 2010
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A 25-team conference isnt a conference, it’s a league. This is what ESPN wants, 2 “leagues” about the top 40-50ish teams and the rest of colleges can eat dust. Except that destroys the very tradition of college sports that makes it so great

I hear you. Maybe I'm a little bitter there has never been a northeast conference centered on football. I don't mind a big shakeup in CFB, but would be good if the playing field could be leveled and their were opportunities to play for the national championship than just the top 7-10 teams.
 

zeek55

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Nov 21, 2010
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I sincerely hope that nothing like this happens. I think that it is far better for the two conferences to agree to scheduling OOC games against one another but having 20+ universities forced to schedule cross-continent games in all sports is just too much money and too much time lost by athletes in classes, to say nothing about how crossing so many time zones so often can lead to wear + tear on their bodies.

I really hope that college sports doesn't come to this. It's really time for the universities, their presidents, and their Boards of Trustees to stand up to the Evil Empire that is Disney/ESPN and just say "no."
The problem is that the SEC doesn't care what anybody else does, they want to professionalize the sport and become the NFL of CFB with Greg Sankey acting as commissioner of college sports.

They want to make all CFB outside the SEC irrelevant or at least lower tier.

The only way to challenge the SEC is either the Big Ten takes 6-9 Pac-12 teams or 4-6 ACC teams (in 2032) to really make sure that the Big Ten has equal money and equal say.

Otherwise, we just fall behind and fall to a lower tier. There is no other way. That's how big this Texas/OU move to the SEC is.

The only way to match is to combine USC/UCLA/Washington/Oregon or ND/FSU/UNC/UVa into the Big Ten.

I just don't see any other way that we can really match up and make sure that the Big Ten and our universities have an equal seat at the table.
 

50 yd line RR

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I hear you. Maybe I'm a little bitter there has never been a northeast conference centered on football. I don't mind a big shakeup in CFB, but would be good if the playing field could be leveled and their were opportunities to play for the national championship than just the top 7-10 teams.
Look at the bright side if we wind up with a mega conference, we might end up in a northeast division with the original northeast conference teams.
 

zeek55

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Most of us hate this but it’s coming down to survival.
Yep, if it does happen hopefully we get somewhere around 4-6 teams locked among our nearby schools so we can at least develop tradition even as we head towards a super conference or league type of structure.

At least we'll have first class seats. Because if all the major schools go to the SEC, we won't.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,569
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The shame is Collage Football had turned into the haves P-5 (once the P-6 if you considered the Big East one of the top programs , before it went kaput ) and the G-5 have nots ( soon to be the P-4 & g-6 when the not so big 12 becomes a member of the have not conferences)
Now it looks like it the end it will wind up being a 2 league type of arrangement and the strong will have devoured the weak and left college football into the stronger conferences taking what they want from other P conferences making for it's own division and those not in the two leagues negated to Division 2 like status and left out of National Championship playoff consideration.

Hell the conferences will be so big that maybe there will be only 2 OCC games available for the conference teams to play and one could be a long time rival and the other a mandatory game against another program in the major conference alliance of top programs known as the haves.
 

RU76

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Jul 31, 2001
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Rather than some of the above, there is more of a chance to convince a few of the ACC teams to withdraw from the conference so that it dissolves. And there is no chance that happens.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,569
16,386
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Rather than some of the above, there is more of a chance to convince a few of the ACC teams to withdraw from the conference so that it dissolves. And there is no chance that happens.
could include the ACC and make a ACC-SEC alliance and a B1G-PAC alliance that leaves every team not in those conferences out in the cold when it comes to scheduling and playoff participation.
Little by little college football =is moving the weak out of the way so the powerfull can take what they want and leave the scrapes to the weaker conferences..
Even the strong need to be leery about the other taking their best so tieing in with another conference would be a way to fend off poaching .
Making for 2 super conferences having it all and still wanting more
 
Oct 21, 2010
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Eat or be eaten. If the B1G eats, then we're good. If it's eaten, then we could be one of the schools on the outside looking in.
Exactly! This is going to be a real test of KW. He has to make the right moves and get the right fit. It’s eat or get eaten. KW better make this a big ten priority….pronto!
 
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zeek55

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Nov 21, 2010
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Rather than some of the above, there is more of a chance to convince a few of the ACC teams to withdraw from the conference so that it dissolves. And there is no chance that happens.
The ACC has a Grant of Rights in place that makes it so that the only way ACC schools can freely leave before 2036 is if every school votes to dissolve the conference. That will never happen because schools like WF and BC have no landing spot elsewhere.
 

HeavenUniv.

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Sep 21, 2004
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Houston and Florida State
If we can’t get Florida State, Central Florida is turning into Godzilla. Would love to take UCF.
 

RUTGERS95

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Sep 28, 2005
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Houston and Florida State
If we can’t get Florida State, Central Florida is turning into Godzilla. Would love to take UCF.
I love your posts and love what you add to the board so please understand when I say this; suggesting to add UCF has to be the dumbest thing anyone could say. There is no way, ZERO, that the academic side (which holds as much if not more sway) would ever allow that. It's like a kkk grand dragon giving his daughter to flavor flave for some fun. UCF is a glorified community college with a football team
 
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RUsundevil

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ASU has passed UA in the last 10 years academically but not by much. More importantly they are a much larger school that carries one of the largest markets in the country so they would be a much better fit than UA.
Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC, and Utah are picks
 

zeek55

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Nov 21, 2010
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ASU has passed UA in the last 10 years academically but not by much. More importantly they are a much larger school that carries one of the largest markets in the country so they would be a much better fit than UA.
Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC, and Utah are picks
UA is ranked higher for research expenditures and is AAU which is what the Big Ten presidents covet.
 

HeavenUniv.

Heisman
Sep 21, 2004
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95,
Longgg range, the conference needs a school in Texas and one in Florida. 20 million people in Florida and 30 million in Texas. Unlimited athletic talent that not only Rutgers,but the entire conference needs. Some of the Big Ten states have very little football talent and to keep pace with the Southern schools, we are going to need some of it. I am aware that UCF is not exactly the Princeton of the South. My preference would be Florida State, but that may not happen for 15 years, if ever. We need to take a very long look at the biggest university in the nation. Just my two cents. I just don’t see Kansas as the answer to Texas.
 

brgRC90

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
34,957
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A 25-team conference isnt a conference, it’s a league. This is what ESPN wants, 2 “leagues” about the top 40-50ish teams and the rest of colleges can eat dust. Except that destroys the very tradition of college sports that makes it so great
It's basically a college version of the NFL except without the relatively level playimg field--the only teams that would matter are the large market teams or teams from smaller markets that are hugely successful, like Alabama. Intrastate or interstate rivalry disappears. So long Iowa vs Iowa State. Long term rivalries like Nebraska and Oklahoma bite the dust. Underdogs have no chance to ever change their status in life and little chance to win when they face the big boys who hoard even more resources to crush them.
 

graystork

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Hell let's go to to 28. If the SEC wants hegemony let's kick their ***. All AAU all contiguous. Four seven team conferences.

East
Rutgers
Penn State
Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech

Mideast
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern

Midwest
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Colorado
Utah

West
Washington
Oregon
Stanford
Cal
UCLA
USC
Arizona

Our conference championship will be this quaint little thing called the Rose Bowl. Yeah I know Notre Dame isn't AAU. Big Ten will make an exception for them and after the Big Ten and SEC (Florida State and Clemson) dismember the ACC, Notre Dame will be glad to join. Were else are they gonna go?
 
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zeek55

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Hell let's go to to 28. If the SEC wants hegemony let's kick their ***. All AAU all contiguous. Four seven team conferences.

East
Rutgers
Penn State
Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech

Mideast
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern

Midwest
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Colorado
Utah

West
Washington
Oregon
Stanford
Cal
UCLA
USC
Arizona

Our conference championship will be this quaint little thing called the Rose Bowl. Yeah I know Notre Dame isn't AAU. Big Ten will make an exception for them and after the Big Ten and SEC (Florida State and Clemson) dismember the ACC, Notre Dame will be glad to join. Were else are they gonna go?
That's basically the sort of end result I have in mind when we hit 2032 and ACC teams are also poachable.

Basically if the Big Ten chooses, can probably reach 26-28 and just make its own national league, SEC be damned.
 

graystork

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That's basically the sort of end result I have in mind when we hit 2032 and ACC teams are also poachable.

Basically if the Big Ten chooses, can probably reach 26-28 and just make its own national league, SEC be damned.
I think the ACC's gonna be poachable real soon if the SEC is hungry enough. Those GOR's won't last through the first round of settlement negotiations once litigation starts.
 

Myrtleknight

Senior
Mar 25, 2006
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Hell let's go to to 28. If the SEC wants hegemony let's kick their ***. All AAU all contiguous. Four seven team conferences.

East
Rutgers
Penn State
Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech

Mideast
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern

Midwest
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Colorado
Utah

West
Washington
Oregon
Stanford
Cal
UCLA
USC
Arizona

Our conference championship will be this quaint little thing called the Rose Bowl. Yeah I know Notre Dame isn't AAU. Big Ten will make an exception for them and after the Big Ten and SEC (Florida State and Clemson) dismember the ACC, Notre Dame will be glad to join. Were else are they gonna go?
Love it. I would move ND to the east, drop Duke and add Kansas.