RU vs SHU ?
- Thread starter Proud NJ Sports Fan
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in state rivalries should be encouraged.
RU -SHU game is one that should be a regular event
RU -SHU game is one that should be a regular event
Not buying what Bozella is selling here. I think he's just trying to use the positive energy surrounding the RUWBB program to help lift his program and his own personal status as a coach. As we have all been enjoying, the CVS kids all over the screen on WNBA games, them along with coach receiving so many accolades, excitement of landing promising transfers to compliment the returning players,...........as a RUWBB fan, I'm already excited about next year.
The men's programs have been on par with each other for a long time. They do seem to compete for the same local talent and title of NJ's best. This makes for their rivalry to be of great interest to NJ CBB fans. It's not the same on the women's side. SH WBB would have to at least crack the top 25 more regularly, as we are now doing again, for it to be worth our while to renew the rivalry.
Although Seton Hall has been respectable under Bozella and beat us with our own Shakeena R., a few years back, he stands to gain while RU can only lose in this scenario. We'll get enough challenges in the Big 10 and the Bahamas Tourney.
Bottom line.......SHWBB is a lot better than their national image projects(this is the problem Bozella is looking to overcome). A loss to them could be the one that the tournament committee uses to say we don't belong in the NCAA tourney. Beating them doesn't help us at all in that regard.
The men's programs have been on par with each other for a long time. They do seem to compete for the same local talent and title of NJ's best. This makes for their rivalry to be of great interest to NJ CBB fans. It's not the same on the women's side. SH WBB would have to at least crack the top 25 more regularly, as we are now doing again, for it to be worth our while to renew the rivalry.
Although Seton Hall has been respectable under Bozella and beat us with our own Shakeena R., a few years back, he stands to gain while RU can only lose in this scenario. We'll get enough challenges in the Big 10 and the Bahamas Tourney.
Bottom line.......SHWBB is a lot better than their national image projects(this is the problem Bozella is looking to overcome). A loss to them could be the one that the tournament committee uses to say we don't belong in the NCAA tourney. Beating them doesn't help us at all in that regard.
I think early scheduling is especially important this year with the large group of new players and returning non starters.
I would imagine a fiercely competitive pre and early season to determine our starters and develop team chemistry.
A lot maybe in flux .
From that perspective , I see no need to schedule a high risk low reward game.
And as Rucrz alluded to, this "new" team has plenty of challenges to prepare for.
I would imagine a fiercely competitive pre and early season to determine our starters and develop team chemistry.
A lot maybe in flux .
From that perspective , I see no need to schedule a high risk low reward game.
And as Rucrz alluded to, this "new" team has plenty of challenges to prepare for.
IIRC didn’t he pull the plug on the series because he was upset that CVS flipped Pelc’s commitment fro SHU to RU?
My first reaction to Politi's tweet was to speak my name.
To try to shame RU into scheduling SH is the definition of "crazy"! As was mentioned above, this reasoning would mean that they should also "play the game" with St. Peters, Princeton, Monmouth, Fairleigh Dickinson, etc.
And if it is true that Bozzella was the one that pulled the plug on the series, then this tweet sounds even crazier to me.
I guess you can't fault SH fans for trying.
I would think that they should be focused on trying to beat UConn at least once, and beat St. Johns and DePaul on the regular. ........THEN, an RU-SHU game would be in everybody's interest.
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I look at it like this.............Who?, other than a SH fan, is anxious to see this matchup??!!
It's not like this is a Lebron vs KD matchup. or a St. Anthony's vs St. Patrick's. or a St.John Vianney vs. Shabazz. ...........The Knicks vs Nets is only interesting if both teams are trending up at the same time or are both pretty good.
Like I said, let SHWBB raise their national profile, and then we entertain this matchup. They won't raise their profile with a win over RU at this time. We are in the process of trying to raise our own profile back to the top 20 or better stage.
It's not like this is a Lebron vs KD matchup. or a St. Anthony's vs St. Patrick's. or a St.John Vianney vs. Shabazz. ...........The Knicks vs Nets is only interesting if both teams are trending up at the same time or are both pretty good.
Like I said, let SHWBB raise their national profile, and then we entertain this matchup. They won't raise their profile with a win over RU at this time. We are in the process of trying to raise our own profile back to the top 20 or better stage.
But if SHU was the one to pull the plug, the first 2 games of the resumed series should be at the RAC,then home and home after that.
So, you would be okay with scheduling a high risk-low reward game like this? I'm surprised.
If it resulted in the scenario I mentioned earlier with a loss being the factor that kept us out of the tourney, ....I would think that you, me, and most of RU nation would call out the AD/Admin.(whoever makes the schedule) for that decision.
Some years it's a high risk low reward game other years it might be a clash between 2 ranked NJ programs.
Every game against a lesser program has its risk of being an upset, but if it's an in state rivalry game , it's a risk worth taking.
Too often games are kept off scheduled because of the fear of loss.
OCC games against out of state opponants I can see doing that, but if it's an in-state opponant that can be considered a program's biggest in-state rival, I can't see ducking that type of game
Yes Seton Hall can gain an in state recruiting advantage and a possible edge with a win with out of state recruits RU & SHU are going after.
But RU would gain the same by beating SHU and possibly making that program lose any slight advantage they had with a recruit thinking the Hall might be a better fit.
A RU win would put the Scarlet Knight program in better shape if it showed it's superiort to the Hall and though a loss would hurt, the rivalry would be worth it because of the media exposure rivalry games get inthe local media in the areas they are played.
Rutgers fans seem to be fixated on the horrors of a loss to Seton Hall , more than the benefit of showing the Hall isn't now, never was and never will be a better program than Rutgers.
The local exposure might even help gain new fans to fill the seats.
Playing a no name cupcake instead of the Hall won't do that.
I don't know if you read my earlier posts in this thread,....I agree that this rivalry is good when both teams are looked at as equals. SHWBB has quality players and may be on par with RUWBB, but all of that said, RU does not stand to gain much of anything out of this game, if it took place this year. Of course, if your Bozzella you want this game.
Until SH strings together some signature wins to raise their national image, this rivalry will always just be an opportunity to beat the older sibling on the court in the back yard. The older sibling never has anything to gain from that scenario.
They have some good players and some good transfers that will make them formidable this coming season. Let them make some noise this coming season, and that sets the table for the rivalry to be renewed next season.
You don't just give someone a fight with the champ because he/she lives in the same town. That person that wants a shot at the champ has to beat some quality opponents or have some buzz surrounding their name before getting consideration for a title shot.
And finally, ......Unfortunately, WBB has never been well covered by our local media. Write-ups are scarce throughout the season for any and all of the local women's bball programs. I doubt that the renewal of this rivalry changes that.
The Politi article itself, to me, just seems more like a favor to Bozzella to help him bring attention to his program, via RUWBB. Maybe Bozzella feels like UConn is about to be unbeatable for a while and Depaul is gonna be tough too (especially with our T. Mack and some good recruits) . A win against us would give him something to sell the program on.
With that Paradise Jam schedule and Big 10 schedule to follow, putting SH on there is not necessary for this year.
Although, we both know CVS is not scared to play anyone, the Admin./scheduler should want to keep their job. lol The goal is to make the tourney and do damage once there. But you gotta make it there first. The path is already challenging enough.
Although, we both know CVS is not scared to play anyone, the Admin./scheduler should want to keep their job. lol The goal is to make the tourney and do damage once there. But you gotta make it there first. The path is already challenging enough.
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The RU-SHU game isn't about how tough a game it is or isn't, nor the better program making sure it doesn't give a lesser in-state opponent a chance to beat them .
This h=game is for PR purposes and the local media attention it will bring top the RU WBB program and the possibility of adding fans that will go to the RAC for games.
Vivian could use a little media attention to talk up the program and building up a RU-SHU rivalry game might just do that when she's being interview by the local media.
Impressing on the importance of this in state rivalry might just get RU more coverage and make people sit up and take notice of RUWBB and all CVS accomplished as a HC a bit more because of what will be written about this rivalry between SHU AND ru.
Where some might feel playing the Hall has no redeeming value, I feel the extra local media attention that would come with the rivalery game, might just make some unattached Women's collage basketball fans in NJ become Rutgers fans and put seats in the stands when RU plays at home.
This h=game is for PR purposes and the local media attention it will bring top the RU WBB program and the possibility of adding fans that will go to the RAC for games.
Vivian could use a little media attention to talk up the program and building up a RU-SHU rivalry game might just do that when she's being interview by the local media.
Impressing on the importance of this in state rivalry might just get RU more coverage and make people sit up and take notice of RUWBB and all CVS accomplished as a HC a bit more because of what will be written about this rivalry between SHU AND ru.
Where some might feel playing the Hall has no redeeming value, I feel the extra local media attention that would come with the rivalery game, might just make some unattached Women's collage basketball fans in NJ become Rutgers fans and put seats in the stands when RU plays at home.
I just can't see any real advantage to it, to be honest. Not because they might lose (not impossible at least this year, though not something that should be expected) but because I don't see the huge value of the win versus other teams that bring less baggage to the situation. RU shouldn't duck playing Seton Hall, but to schedule them they should demand a compelling reason other than "we are in the same state" and assorted PR.
I'm just not seeing this media attention and generation of new fans by playing.......SHU???!!!!
CVS got more national media attention than most over the course of the second half of last season. The team, breaking the top 25 and playing above pre-season expectations again with the nine game win streak out of Covid protocal, got some national attention also.
This media attention and new fans in the seats that you are seeking would be more easily achieved by playing a perennial top-20 team with big name players. When we used to play Tennessee, LSU (during Seimone Augustus years), Georgia(under Andy Landers), Stanford, Duke, UConn, and the like.....these were the moments when the RUWBB program received the most local media attention. Our sights should be set on scheduling a S.Carolina, Texas A&M, NC State, Baylor, etc.
For as long as I can remember, neither RUWBB or SHUWBB has gotten much local media attention. UConn has dominated our market, as sickening as that is. RU and St Johns are a distant 2nd (thanks to the work and devotion of Bruce Beck), while SHWBB is, relatively, not covered.
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One last point I'll make on this topic.
We had this rivalry in place in the past. I don't remember a whole lot of media and fan anticipation for those games. The only time it got media mention was when they played the dbl OT game at the RAC. Never any real coverage.
Maybe its really Shakena R. that is pushing for this game the most. She seemed to really enjoy sticking it to her old team when she played for SH as a grad transfer. She is now the Director of Basketball Operations for SHWBB. Although she didn't stick it out at RU. I am very happy for her and wish her nothing but the best(just not against RU, lol).
We had this rivalry in place in the past. I don't remember a whole lot of media and fan anticipation for those games. The only time it got media mention was when they played the dbl OT game at the RAC. Never any real coverage.
Maybe its really Shakena R. that is pushing for this game the most. She seemed to really enjoy sticking it to her old team when she played for SH as a grad transfer. She is now the Director of Basketball Operations for SHWBB. Although she didn't stick it out at RU. I am very happy for her and wish her nothing but the best(just not against RU, lol).
The local media hardly ever covered RU WBB or WBB in general.
UConn and Tenn are not the powers they once were and won't bring in the exposure they once did.
Rutgers never really pushed the RUWBB program just let Vivian be the focus and how the team played bring in the interest.
Now's the time to make a statement and in state rivalry might be the start of pushing RU WBB to the unattached College WBB fan
Yes the RU-SHU games didn't really draw media or fan interest, maybe RU's Athletics Communication Department Women's Basketball's Matt Choquette can start a PR type of
push trying to get the local media, print, radio and TV to talk up the game so more WBB fans in NJ might start thinking about the game and considering it a bigger deal than they think of it now.
But all in all, I always like rivalry games and in state opponents make great rivals, in my opinion.
Rutgers WBB hasn't really had a program its fans can consider a rival in a long time.
Having an in-state rival in the Hall might help in that department
UConn and Tenn are not the powers they once were and won't bring in the exposure they once did.
Rutgers never really pushed the RUWBB program just let Vivian be the focus and how the team played bring in the interest.
Now's the time to make a statement and in state rivalry might be the start of pushing RU WBB to the unattached College WBB fan
Yes the RU-SHU games didn't really draw media or fan interest, maybe RU's Athletics Communication Department Women's Basketball's Matt Choquette can start a PR type of
push trying to get the local media, print, radio and TV to talk up the game so more WBB fans in NJ might start thinking about the game and considering it a bigger deal than they think of it now.
But all in all, I always like rivalry games and in state opponents make great rivals, in my opinion.
Rutgers WBB hasn't really had a program its fans can consider a rival in a long time.
Having an in-state rival in the Hall might help in that department
I guess we'll disagree on the we're in same state logic.
Since both schools are in top WBB Conferences, I believe it should happen and each school's fanbase should consider the other school a rival that should be played every year.
But it does seem I'm the only one that thinks it's a good idea [roll]
One reason I want to see game played is because over the years have seen rivalry games of other schools in other sports fall by the wayside and I miss them..
Most if not all were playing schools from other states and one of the reasons stopped was because they weren't in same conference anymore.
I know i said the last post was my last on this topic. I lied. lol
I get it, when it comes to so many fun rivalries that have gone away over the years. We should look to establish a rivalry.........it just needs to be a case of "marrying up" , not down. Let's shoot for a rivalry with a team that is considered to be significant on the national scene. It needs to be a top 20 team. We have Md. right there if we can win more regularly against them. That was the problem with the old Big East days. We couldn't beat UConn enough to make it a rivalry and our losses were often lop-sided.
Choosing SH to be that team takes our national image down to their level. It's like asking to take the program backwards.
In one post you said UConn wasn't what it used to be and in another you said the Big East is top WBB conference.
Think - UConn is most certainly what it was - a top 5 or better program. How many Final Fours have they been to recently? Yes, they have had a title drought (long may it continue) but the truth is almost all losses they have suffered have been quite close and just didn't go their way. They continue to have an unmatched roster and unbelievable coaching.
The Big East is a mixed conference. Talking "absolutes" it can argue - even before UConn returned" to be just behind the Power 5, but the gap is considerable. Only UConn and DePaul are typically nationally ranked teams; Marquette appears to care about WBB, Creighton has some history, but the rest have regressed since the days of the oBE. You would have to prove it to me if you believe I am wrong.
I saw that, but was gonna let that slide. I agree with you and consider the current Big East (minus UConn and Depaul) a mid-major caliber conference. St. Johns and Seton Hall haven't been consistently good. Villanova has fallen off, and etc, etc.
you're right about, even with UConn in fold the BE is a step below , maybe a few steps, belowthe top 5 WBB Conferences.
Butr it is a known brand with some fairly good programs wit UConn & DePaul being the ones that are constantly considered a top WBB program. Marquette is starting to look like it might be a good program on a constant bases andI belive Duffy is the type of HC that will make sure they do
I just happen to think of the top programs when thinking the BE is a good WBB conference.
Also feel in state rivalries should be encouraged and not look at like a threat to SOS.
Sometimes making a in state rivalry with another major program can make the game something to look forwarded tr, even if the cost of losing is far more that the rewards that come with a win SOS wise.
Everything shouldn't be looked at by the price paid, maybe just looking at the State bragging rights by the winning teams fans might be worth the gamble.
But I'm prejudiced that way because I get sentimental remembering some of yesterday's rivalries in every sport that are gone from today's scheduling by the program's fans that once thought those rivalries were something to look forward to.
Now cost of travel, not being in same conference and how it will affect ranking is what's being considered considered, bragging rights play 3rd fiddle and might not be considered at all by those that make program's schedule in a manner that their OOC games won't be ones that might kill post season hopes.
Just about all won't agree with my opinion, but being stubborn, I'll stick to it while admitting I can see other's point about not wanting to play a game against another in state program because it won't help SOS with a win and could badly hurt being ranked high if a loss happens.
I'M just stubborn enough to think bragging rights is a fans dream and one that trumps all of the reasons not to play the other top program in NJ.
I doubt I will be able to change any of your minds about playing the game, but feel you'll not change this stubborn old fool's mind either , no matter what you point out while making your case not to play.
Some things make no sense to do for some people, but just feel good thinking about doing for others .
Rivalries ( in-state especially) put a smile on my face when thinking about that game.:WooHoo:
Looks like others wear a frown when thinking about it happening:chairshot:
I can really sympathize with your entire message. I have conversations with friends all the time about the misfortune of the younger generations in regard to not having a chance to experience the greatness of rivalries that have been either scrapped or gradually eroded due to changing times. So many cross-town, high school rivalries...............watered down or destroyed by the emergence of private school athletics and the AAU circuit.
HS football Thanksgiving Day rivalries also watered down due to best players leaving the public school for parochial powerhouses. So much of the excitement has been drained from these rivalries. They provided some of the most memorable moments of my life.
The BIG East of old.... on the men's and women's side. Almost every game was a rivalry game. There's been nothing since that has come close to that level of excitement....IMO.
I'm grateful that I was around to enjoy the standing-room-only gyms and arenas, packed football stadiums that got so loud that you couldn't hear the person sitting next to you!............sad that these younger generations may never know the sheer joy and lasting impact of such grand, prideful, out-of-this-world experiences!
For what it's worth, IMO............NJ WCBB fans will know when the time is right for RU and SH to face off again or if it should be RU and Princeton, or both. When the respective programs are all playing to a certain level and there is mutual intrigue, the people will want to see it,...it'll happen..
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