Big man grad transfer Ralph Agee on campus for a visit

[NewJerseyHawk]

Jury’s out on Hyatt. Honestly, could be the next Keith Hughes - or not.

This roster isn't missing a lot of pieces, there's nothing pressing at any position for this upcoming season beyond back up at the 5. Hyatt fell into our lap and is a situation that you could not pass up, he is a multiple year player at RU, who has played at a Power 5 school and is local (Bronx area). RU, assuming agee is the choice, fills whatever roles were missing.

 

[kcg88]

Very strange, because I think you're arguing or leading the discussion that this player is not good or has no value, but Penn State landed a kid who started at Cal-State Bakersfield then transferred to Western Michigan and averaged 13PPG and 7RPG.....

Agee in a similar league (MAC vs Mountain West are close leagues but most sane CBB fans would state that the Mountain West was better) where Agee averaged 11 & 5.

The linked article on a Penn State page claims Lee is "a big get".....

I don't know if it's perception or just lack of awareness, but Agee and Lee might be similar or the same and both are 6'8 or 6'9".....there no clear separation between either player IMO.

The other borderline ridiculous argument is "there are slim pickings "....LOL...if anything, this years clearly proves the exact opposite....there are way more transfers of quality available vs spots on rosters around the country...and kids entered the portal at all times from mid March to even today (end of June). There is no such thing as a limited pool of options.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/victorybellrings.com/2021/06/06/penn-state-basketball-greg-lee/amp/

Lee looks like a much better rebounder than Agee but otherwise yeah I'll agree that they're about the same. I wouldn't call Lee a "big get" and I don't particularly care that some Penn State blogger called him that. He'll be playable for 10 minutes/night behind Harrar but otherwise doesn't do anything to elevate them.

For the millionth and (probably not) last time, I never said Agee would have no value. My point this entire thread is that his numbers are bad, which is inarguably true, but that the situation at SJSU - terrible team, playing out of position - muddies the waters.

Look at Pauly Paulicap: he led the Big East in offensive rebounding and was 5th in block rate. That's two things you can point to and say "he's proven this in a major conference." Or you look at Jalen Pickett (too lazy to find a big man comp so I'm using Pickett) and you can say "he was flat-out awesome in a smaller league as a freshman and sophomore."

There's nothing you can point to with Agee like that. It's a lot more projection and ifs and maybes. Which yet again I'm not saying that makes him a hard pass, or that Paulicap and Pickett are guaranteed success. I'm just saying that transfers are inherently wildcards, and Agee's profile is perhaps more "wild" than others.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I just don’t understand how we can be in the Big Ten, win a game in the dance, and this is the best we can come up with at this point. I guess no one gives a poop all that we have accomplished with Pike. The portal sucks

Again - this is about the role not RU recruiting in general. We are in the market for someone who is willing to transfer to RU to be a back up 5 or at most split the time with Cliff. We’re not Duke or UK. Available PT is a big factor

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Lee looks like a much better rebounder than Agee but otherwise yeah I'll agree that they're about the same. I wouldn't call Lee a "big get" and I don't particularly care that some Penn State blogger called him that. He'll be playable for 10 minutes/night behind Harrar but otherwise doesn't do anything to elevate them.

For the millionth and (probably not) last time, I never said Agee would have no value. My point this entire thread is that his numbers are bad, which is inarguably true, but that the situation at SJSU - terrible team, playing out of position - muddies the waters.

Look at Pauly Paulicap: he led the Big East in offensive rebounding and was 5th in block rate. That's two things you can point to and say "he's proven this in a major conference." Or you look at Jalen Pickett (too lazy to find a big man comp so I'm using Pickett) and you can say "he was flat-out awesome in a smaller league as a freshman and sophomore."

There's nothing you can point to with Agee like that. It's a lot more projection and ifs and maybes. Which yet again I'm not saying that makes him a hard pass, or that Paulicap and Pickett are guaranteed success. I'm just saying that transfers are inherently wildcards, and Agee's profile is perhaps more "wild" than others.

I obviously agree that Pauly is a better player (defensively it’s not even close). In fairness, however, Pauly’s supporting cast was much better than Agee’s which makes a huge difference. DePaul probably wasn’t nearly as bad as their record and they had other forwards and a center who saw meaningful PT. They lost 8 of 14 games by 10 or less and another 3 games by 12-14 points. Agee was typically on the floor with 4 kids who weighed less than 200 lb. the attention under the glass would have been entirely on boxing him out.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Advanced stats are not all that valuable for a big kid who plays on a terrible team. Surrounding cast plays a major role.

We need a utility player who can finish strong on a few put backs a game and help clear the glass on the defensive end for 10 minutes or so a game. At this stage, this kid seems like a great pick up. I can’t imagine who else some folks think we’re going to get to back up Cliff.

I believe we were saying the same thing

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I obviously agree that Pauly is a better player (defensively it’s not even close). In fairness, however, Pauly’s supporting cast was much better than Agee’s which makes a huge difference. DePaul probably wasn’t nearly as bad as their record and they had other forwards and a center who saw meaningful PT. They lost 8 of 14 games by 10 or less and another 3 games by 12-14 points. Agee was typically on the floor with 4 kids who weighed less than 200 lb. the attention under the glass would have been entirely on boxing him out.

And that's why you don't draw conclusions on who is a good or bad rebounder by looking at some advanced stats....you gotta watch the games.

 

[Gudenham]

And that's why you don't draw conclusions on who is a good or bad rebounder by looking at some advanced stats....you gotta watch the games.

I know this is a crazy thought, so forgive me in advance, but hear me out: why don't they do both? Watch games AND look at advanced stats.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I know this is a crazy thought, so forgive me in advance, but hear me out: why don't they do both? Watch games AND look at advanced stats.

Yes, but, weighted so much more heavily towards watching with your own eyes.

 

[soundcrib]

Do we know who else Agee is looking at?

 

[RUChoppin]

1) weighs 230 or more AND is at least 6-8.
2) has proven D1 experience (played meaningful minutes with prior team) playing the 5
3) did not enter the portal with aspiration of more PT and / or to go somewhere that he will be a likely starter.
4) okay with playing a lesser role than with prior team.

The options really do narrow down a lot when you realize that RU probably isn’t interested in picking up someone for this role who doesn’t check the first 2 boxes, and the 3rd and 4th criteria are going to be deal breakers for anyone who did well on any halfway decent team. Indiana’s star center was never coming to Rutgers to share PT with Cliff.

Agee doesn't check Box 1, so I'm assuming their cutoff is more like 220 than 230. There are 81 guys in the portal that are both 6-8-plus and 220-plus. 29 if you limited it to "one year rental" guys who are either Sr or RS Sr already.

 

[RUChoppin]

I'm just hoping that Pike can grab a Gettys-like guy, someone who might not have lit up the stat sheet at a lesser program, but who is willing to give 100% and do whatever is asked to help the team. Gettys only averaged 5/5 has last year at UNC-W, but hit the floor diving for a loose ball in his first Rutgers practice at 7-0/275.... I'd gladly take another guy like that as a backup C.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Agee doesn't check Box 1, so I'm assuming their cutoff is more like 220 than 230. There are 81 guys in the portal that are both 6-8-plus and 220-plus. 29 if you limited it to "one year rental" guys who are either Sr or RS Sr already.

Well, he's listed at 6-8, 235, so... I think that means he DOES check the first box.

 

[Knight Owl]

Agee did go off for 22 pts and 14 rebs in one game against Air Force, who was more like a Patriot League team last year. That leads to the question of what would Agee’s numbers have been in the Patriot League? He would bring some solid footwork and decent athleticism to the “bigs”…as there will likely be games where Reiber’s lack of foot speed gets exposed.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

I'm just hoping that Pike can grab a Gettys-like guy, someone who might not have lit up the stat sheet at a lesser program, but who is willing to give 100% and do whatever is asked to help the team. Gettys only averaged 5/5 has last year at UNC-W, but hit the floor diving for a loose ball in his first Rutgers practice at 7-0/275.... I'd gladly take another guy like that as a backup C.

Hard to believe Gettys was only 5/5. His impact was so much more than that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Agee doesn't check Box 1, so I'm assuming their cutoff is more like 220 than 230. There are 81 guys in the portal that are both 6-8-plus and 220-plus. 29 if you limited it to "one year rental" guys who are either Sr or RS Sr already.

ESPN lists Agee as 235 and 6-8.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I'm just hoping that Pike can grab a Gettys-like guy, someone who might not have lit up the stat sheet at a lesser program, but who is willing to give 100% and do whatever is asked to help the team. Gettys only averaged 5/5 has last year at UNC-W, but hit the floor diving for a loose ball in his first Rutgers practice at 7-0/275.... I'd gladly take another guy like that as a backup C.

A kid like Gettys was transferring to play more and saw the clear opportunity to do so at RU. That’s how we got him. The opening we have probably would not appeal right now to a kid who logged 15 minutes per game as a contributor for a mid-major NCAA team. It would be a huge risk to move somewhere that you know you won’t start and might not even beat out the back up (Dean Reiber is a big unknown variable in the equation right now). It’s not a coincidence that the guys Pike has been targeting to fill this role are 5th year seniors who played on bad teams - the draw here is going to be that last chance opportunity to compete for PT on a competitive team.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Also - Let’s not pretend CJ Gettys came in with such wonderful advanced stats either. Agee’s shooting stats from last season were actually better than CJs as either an RU or UNC Wilmington player despite the higher usage rate.

 

[kcg88]

Also - Let’s not pretend CJ Gettys came in with such wonderful advanced stats either. Agee’s shooting stats from last season were actually better than CJs as either an RU or UNC Wilmington player despite the higher usage rate.

Gettys had a 114.6 offensive rating, led the CAA in block rate, and was the #2 offensive rebounder/#6 defensive rebounder in the conference.

I'm sure this is just going to continue going in circles and you're going to say that Agee's role was different and I'm going to tell you that I already very clearly acknowledged that.

 

[RUChoppin]

Well, he's listed at 6-8, 235, so... I think that means he DOES check the first box.

ESPN lists Agee as 235 and 6-8.

Looks like the VerbalCommits.com site for the transfer portal isn't accurate with regard to weight, as he's listed in their transfer portal data as 220. Not sure if that's a number input by the player in the portal itself, or a number they attach to the player from their own data (my guess is the latter?).

On the San Jose State site, he's listed as 220 for the 2019-20 season and 235 for the 2020-21 season, which is a big bump for a season of S&C. He was listed at 6-8/220 for 2017-18 at Cal State Dominguez Hills.

Having a hard time pinning down his height/weight on the East Los Angeles College roster for 2018-19. There's a Rodney Agee listed at 6-9/235 that year.... and I believe he has an older brother Rodney, who played for Cal State Dominguez Hills in 2016-17 listed at 6-8/250? Maybe ELAC had the name wrong but the height/weight right? Would be big swings, though.... 220, then 235, then 220, then 235.

 

[mikeyoc]

Jury’s out on Hyatt. Honestly, could be the next Keith Hughes - or not.

He would be a real find if he were the next Keith Hughes, who averaged
21 and 10 for RU in '91, their only tourney appearance for 30
years before this season. Best transfer in the history of the program
by the length of the Turnpike

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Gettys had a 114.6 offensive rating, led the CAA in block rate, and was the #2 offensive rebounder/#6 defensive rebounder in the conference.

I'm sure this is just going to continue going in circles and you're going to say that Agee's role was different and I'm going to tell you that I already very clearly acknowledged that.

I pointed to the shooting percentages. Agees were better. The turnovers slam his overall offensive rating. I think he’d turn the ball over much less with a better surrounding cast (just as when Gettys joined a bad RU team in a strong league his turnover rate went up). Besides playing a different role as you suggest, Agee also played a much tougher schedule than Gettys did at UNC Wilmington. Being able to block and rebound in that year’s CAA doesn’t mean a whole lot. There was surprising parity in the MWC last season (only a few terrible teams - SJSU being one of them). Most of the teams in Agee’s conference could’ve challenged Gettys team for the CAA title.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Gettys had a 114.6 offensive rating, led the CAA in block rate, and was the #2 offensive rebounder/#6 defensive rebounder in the conference.

I'm sure this is just going to continue going in circles and you're going to say that Agee's role was different and I'm going to tell you that I already very clearly acknowledged that.

I pointed to the shooting percentages. Agees were better. The turnovers slam his overall offensive rating. I think he’d turn the ball over less with a better surrounding cast. Besides playing a different role as you suggest, he also played a much tougher schedule than Gettys did at UNC Wilmington. Being able to block and rebound in that year’s CAA doesn’t mean a whole lot.

There was also surprising parity in the MWC last season (only a few terrible teams - SJSU being one of them - point being that you cannot compare rebounding in a very weak CAA league (and a weak non conference) to a schedule against very few Sacred Heart type cupcakes (I’m not saying the MWC was a blood bath but most of those teams would’ve challenged UNC Wilmington in the 2016 CAA league.

Looks like the VerbalCommits.com site for the transfer portal isn't accurate with regard to weight, as he's listed in their transfer portal data as 220. Not sure if that's a number input by the player in the portal itself, or a number they attach to the player from their own data (my guess is the latter?).

On the San Jose State site, he's listed as 220 for the 2019-20 season and 235 for the 2020-21 season, which is a big bump for a season of S&C. He was listed at 6-8/220 for 2017-18 at Cal State Dominguez Hills.

Having a hard time pinning down his height/weight on the East Los Angeles College roster for 2018-19. There's a Rodney Agee listed at 6-9/235 that year.... and I believe he has an older brother Rodney, who played for Cal State Dominguez Hills in 2016-17 listed at 6-8/250? Maybe ELAC had the name wrong but the height/weight right? Would be big swings, though.... 220, then 235, then 220, then 235.

CBS also has 235. Seems unlikely it would be wrong in so many places. Is it that crazy to put on 15 lbs? I get that he was hurt, but I fully expect Caleb to go up a similar about after a season of training.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

He would be a real find if he were the next Keith Hughes, who averaged
21 and 10 for RU in '91, their only tourney appearance for 30
years before this season. Best transfer in the history of the program
by the length of the Turnpike

Agreed. We shall see!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

And that's why you don't draw conclusions on who is a good or bad rebounder by looking at some advanced stats....you gotta watch the games.

I disagree with this. There are X amount of rebounds to Y amount of misses. It really comes down to a batting average. The only check is if there was a monster rebounder playing alongside him that would take some of the rebounds. This CLEARLY is not the case.

 

[RUChoppin]

I disagree with this. There are X amount of rebounds to Y amount of misses. It really comes down to a batting average. The only check is if there was a monster rebounder playing alongside him that would take some of the rebounds. This CLEARLY is not the case.

It's directional, but not in any way conclusive, as are all stats. For something like rebounding, it also depends on scheme and opponent. If your league has a lot of fives who step away from the basket, you'll be much more frequently out of position as a five to get boards - defending a 15-footer and then going to get the rebound is going to yield a different "batting average" than if you have established position when the shot goes up. Same on offense - if you're being asked to play away from the rim more often, you're going to have fewer rebounds than if you're being asked to play on the blocks.

I haven't watched San Jose State's games, so I don't really know - just talking about how stats sometimes aren't showing the whole picture.

With regard to SJSU, their rebounding numbers were fairly balanced across a lot of guys.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

They were 342nd in defensive rebounding. It smells like they played a lot of zone. At least for their rebounding sake I hope so. Syracuse was in their neighborhood of putrid DREB%. They were 334th in OREB.

I think I understand why there has been a coaching change at San Jose State. Jean Priloeau is/was the French version of Eddie Jordan.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Wow. MWC competitior Air Force was worse on the glass. SJSU beat AF twice for 2 of their 3 wins.

AF got a whopping 15.3% of their misses and only 64.6% of their opponent's misses. 347th and 343rd.

There are only 347 D1 teams.

Agee was in double digits only once last year.....14 rebounds vs. you know who

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Wow. MWC competitior Air Force was worse on the glass. SJSU beat AF twice for 2 of their 3 wins.

AF got a whopping 15.3% of their misses and only 64.6% of their opponent's misses. 347th and 343rd.

There are only 347 D1 teams.

Agee was in double digits only once last year.....14 rebounds vs. you know who

Yeah AF stunk but other than that, the MWC had a good amount of parity. The opposite of your point is also true in that Agee didn’t rack up many padding opportunities like that on his stats. When Getty’s moved into the BIG his rebounding per game average was only 5 (and that included 1/3 of the games being played against one of the worst RU OOC schedules in history). My only point is that if Agee had played a bunch of Sacred Hearts and FDUs he’d surely have had more rebounds in those games.

In any case we haven’t heard anything further so Agee may not even be interested.

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

Hes not great but we just need depth for 10-15 minutes a night. I think he can reasonably do that

Good to see you are coming around on Agee

 

[wheezer]

most everyone is assuming the 10 to 15 minutes for this player.

we don't know if Cliff will suffer from the dreaded "Myles-a foul a minute" disease once he is really the man, in league play..... which I say half jokingly....but, this guy, or whoever we get , might have a lot more extended minutes than what we banter about

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

most everyone is assuming the 10 to 15 minutes for this player.

we don't know if Cliff will suffer from the dreaded "Myles-a foul a minute" disease once he is really the man, in league play..... which I say half jokingly....but, this guy, or whoever we get , might have a lot more extended minutes than what we banter about

He kind of did that even when he wasn’t the man last season. This league always has a surplus of girth that will go right at a player like Cliff. He’s strong, but he didn’t have the weight and was often pushed around which led to some fouls. Whoever is is backup has to be ready to play more than 15 minutes per game.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I think the combo of Agee and Reiber is what we should look at. The item fans keep overlooking when trying to pick apart what RU didn't do last year, was based on Cliff missing 3 to 4 weeks (@ Ohio State, Purdue, Iowa, @ Michigan State and Ohio State).

When you combine Cliff and Harper's injuries pretty much happening at the same time, the play of Reiber and missing Cliff was highlighted....it also accelerated the return of Caleb, who really worked back into being able to play.

I think this year's roster will be better equipped to sustain itself up front by forcing teams to defend more space on the court......Agee, Reiber and Nathan and adding Hyatt, who is a capable rebounder, is not designed to combine to match what Myles Johnson provided on defense or as a shot blocker.... But it should be enough to balance with an expanded offense, with Agee and Hyatt offering some mix of minutes at the 4 and freeing up Harper to play some 3.

RU should be able to go smaller with Agee (or Reiber) at the 5, Hyatt at the 4, Harper at 3 with a mix of others at guard. Having a big who can expand outside of the paint will open up some more options on offense, when Cliff comes off the court.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Hawk, what do you think our chances are that both RHJ and Geo Baker are back ? 50 percent? 75 percent? 95 percent?

 

[RUChoppin]

He kind of did that even when he wasn’t the man last season. This league always has a surplus of girth that will go right at a player like Cliff. He’s strong, but he didn’t have the weight and was often pushed around which led to some fouls. Whoever is is backup has to be ready to play more than 15 minutes per game.

Johnson played everywhere from 12 minutes to 32 minutes last year... he averaged 24.7, but he had 6 games under 20 min and 6 games over 30.

I'd expect similar for Omoruyi this season.... there will be days when he gets killed by the whistle and has to sit, and other games where he'll go 30+. We'll need to be able to accommodate 25+ min with backups at the center spot in some games, with a combination of Reiber and TBD.

 

[soundcrib]

He kind of did that even when he wasn’t the man last season. This league always has a surplus of girth that will go right at a player like Cliff. He’s strong, but he didn’t have the weight and was often pushed around which led to some fouls. Whoever is is backup has to be ready to play more than 15 minutes per game.

If Cliff is really 240, with his lean body there’s room to gain good weight. Until I looked up the roster, I didn’t know he was 240. Hope he gains 10-15 lbs this off season. He did get pushed around a bit.

 

[Dpgru]

Hawk, what do you think our chances are that both RHJ and Geo Baker are back ? 50 percent? 75 percent? 95 percent?

I was thinking the same thing. By now you would think they have a good idea of their chances. Nonetheless, July 7th approaches, we should know by the end of the week

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Hawk, what do you think our chances are that both RHJ and Geo Baker are back ? 50 percent? 75 percent? 95 percent?

Not Hawk, obviously, but I'm confident there's a 99 percent chance RHJ and Geo will announce shortly they are withdrawing from 2021 NBA Draft consideration. I'm not willing to say 100 percent because something out of the blue could happen within the next 48 hours to give them a reason to say goodbye to RU. If it were to happen, it would be a shock to a lot of people.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Not Hawk, obviously, but I'm confident there's a 99 percent chance RHJ and Geo will announce shortly they are withdrawing from 2021 NBA Draft consideration. I'm not willing to say 100 percent because something out of the blue could happen within the next 48 hours to give them a reason to say goodbye to RU. If it were to happen, it would be a shock to a lot of people.

I try to stay away from game threads during the season and recruiting predictions nowadays, but I haven't seen anyone reliable tell me that they won't be back....anyone I consider a strong source, thinks they'll be back. I don't think it makes sense for either to leave at this stage.

 

[RU at the shore]

He would be a real find if he were the next Keith Hughes, who averaged
21 and 10 for RU in '91, their only tourney appearance for 30
years before this season. Best transfer in the history of the program
by the length of the Turnpike

Yeah, I honestly had no idea that there was a chance that Hyatt = Hughes. Im feeling good about this season !

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Why stop at Keith Hughes? I was thinking LeBron James.