Big man grad transfer Ralph Agee on campus for a visit

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Xl

And advanced analytics give you the data to conclude the “why” more easily. That’s their purpose.

Example?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Who do you think we were going to get with a pitch of

" Come to RU and play up to 15 Mins a game. Play hard defense and rebound the ball because when your in the game the offense is not coming through you."

Exactly. Given our situation right now, this kid would be a no brainer addition. We’re not only talking about MJ’s slot. We have Duke’s spot open too. We don’t want to take a gamble on a JUCO with multiple years of eligibility left. Grad transfer with proven D1 experience (even on a bad team) would be great. 235 lbs a plus.

Efficiency numbers on a terrible team are meaningless. The best players have to take a lot more forced shots when nobody else can score.

 

[S_Janowski]

If Pike secures this kid, and assuming Geo and Ron both come back, are we locked in with the roster for next year? Or could they potentially still add one more transfer?

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Please do not quote per-game numbers, they are meaningless. Efficiency is a much better indicator and his offensive rating in two seasons at SJSU was below average. And it got much worse in games against better competition. In 22 career games against Tier A+B opponents (basically Quad 1 and 2, similar to the competition he'd face every night in the Big Ten) he shot 39-95 on two pointers. That's 41%, which is terrible for a big man. That's worse than Montez Mathis last season and Mathis was maddeningly inefficient. Myles Johnson last season was at 61% and Shaq Carter in 2020 was 56%, just to give you an idea.

So, okay, that's bad. He turned it over 22% of the time. That's worse. That's basically Jacob Young's turnover rate but with barely any assists to cancel it out. He's a 60% free throw shooter, which fits in here but ain't great.

Can he rebound? I dunno. His rebounding numbers (percentage of available rebounds gotten) against Mountain West competition are roughly the same as Caleb McConnell against Big Ten schools. McConnell's a good rebounder for a wing but that's not a flattering comparison. If a guy is moving from the MWC to the Big Ten, you'd ideally like to see him dominating to some degree. Akwasi Yeboah at Stony Brook was the #3 defensive rebounder in the America East conference and #14 in offensive rebounding. Agee in the Mountain West (a better league, to be sure) was the #24 offensive rebounder and not in the top 30 of defensive rebounding.

Can he defend? He blocked 1% of shots. (Cliff last year blocked 5% and I think we'd agree he has a ways to go defensively). San Jose State as a team had some of the worst 2 point defense in the country. In their Mountain West tournament game a freshman from Wyoming went 12-14 (all two pointers). If a random freshman from Wyoming can do that, what's it say about his ability to protect the rim against Big Ten caliber players?

There is absolutely no argument to be made based on the numbers, which is why I went and watched his tape. And then... I guess I can kinda see it but it's a VERY big metaphorical leap. It would take a lot of things going right. He'd have to accept and learn a new role very quickly, seeing as it's already basically July. He'd have to actually have the skills to do so at a Big Ten level, which is an open question because it's ALWAYS a question with transfers moving up like this. Possible? Yes. Likely? I wouldn't bet on it. 11 and 5 means nothing. Dean Reiber could have put up 11 and 5 at San Jose State if he played 25 minutes/game like Agee did.

You didn’t need to write a dissertation just to say you don’t like him as a player.

 

[ancienthooper]

Pretty simple for me. If Pikes thinks he’s good enough, he’s good enough.

 

[kcg88]

You didn’t need to write a dissertation just to say you don’t like him as a player.

I'll write whatever I want to write.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

They’d have room for 1 more I believe (with Nathan now being on scholarship) but I’d think they would keep the last spot open like prior years and potentially have an early 2022 enrollee

If another grad transfer came along that Pike thought could be a fit then maybe. I can’t see us taking anyone with multiple years of eligibility. I don’t think he’d hold out on someone who could contribute just for the early enroll potential though.

This kid would be a great get at this stage. A big body with experience in a decent (though not great) conference. The kid played 26 minutes per game and averaged 11 ppg and 5+ RPG against the mountain west (not a juco) and people are complaining? If you cut that in half he’d be at 13 min with 5.5 PPG and 2.6 RPG where he was. If he gives us 4 and 2 as a back up (maybe even 3rd string - remember he’d be sharing time with Dean) that would be fantastic. Why is everyone so critical of this kid? Of course he’s going to have crap efficiency numbers when there was only one other kid on his team who could score. Do you think our bigs would be efficient if they had to force shots constantly?

Here’s another interesting question. What do you think Duke’s numbers will look like next season at la Salle? Is it a slam dunk he’ll do better than 11 and 5? I wouldn’t pencil that in. Not certain this kid will be better than Duke but it’s a safe bet his floor would be at least comparable production. I am quite sure Duke would play some next year had he stayed. So at worst - we have 2 spots open and we’re looking to use one to ensure that we at worst fill Duke’s spot and aren’t stuck with a scholarship hang over the following season from an eligibility perspective. I really hope Pike can close this one. I’d feel better about the front court. At 235, he’d weigh considerably more than everyone on the team except RHJ.

 

[soundcrib]

Get it done Steve.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I'll write whatever I want to write.

Didn’t say you couldn’t write it.

 

[Eagleton95.99]

He's talented and has plenty of upside. If he had multiple years of eligibility he'd have many high major offers. But with 1 year to play 1, there is little time to teach him so it's got some downside risk.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Please do not quote per-game numbers, they are meaningless. Efficiency is a much better indicator and his offensive rating in two seasons at SJSU was below average. And it got much worse in games against better competition. In 22 career games against Tier A+B opponents (basically Quad 1 and 2, similar to the competition he'd face every night in the Big Ten) he shot 39-95 on two pointers. That's 41%, which is terrible for a big man. That's worse than Montez Mathis last season and Mathis was maddeningly inefficient. Myles Johnson last season was at 61% and Shaq Carter in 2020 was 56%, just to give you an idea.

So, okay, that's bad. He turned it over 22% of the time. That's worse. That's basically Jacob Young's turnover rate but with barely any assists to cancel it out. He's a 60% free throw shooter, which fits in here but ain't great.

Can he rebound? I dunno. His rebounding numbers (percentage of available rebounds gotten) against Mountain West competition are roughly the same as Caleb McConnell against Big Ten schools. McConnell's a good rebounder for a wing but that's not a flattering comparison. If a guy is moving from the MWC to the Big Ten, you'd ideally like to see him dominating to some degree. Akwasi Yeboah at Stony Brook was the #3 defensive rebounder in the America East conference and #14 in offensive rebounding. Agee in the Mountain West (a better league, to be sure) was the #24 offensive rebounder and not in the top 30 of defensive rebounding.

Can he defend? He blocked 1% of shots. (Cliff last year blocked 5% and I think we'd agree he has a ways to go defensively). San Jose State as a team had some of the worst 2 point defense in the country. In their Mountain West tournament game a freshman from Wyoming went 12-14 (all two pointers). If a random freshman from Wyoming can do that, what's it say about his ability to protect the rim against Big Ten caliber players?

There is absolutely no argument to be made based on the numbers, which is why I went and watched his tape. And then... I guess I can kinda see it but it's a VERY big metaphorical leap. It would take a lot of things going right. He'd have to accept and learn a new role very quickly, seeing as it's already basically July. He'd have to actually have the skills to do so at a Big Ten level, which is an open question because it's ALWAYS a question with transfers moving up like this. Possible? Yes. Likely? I wouldn't bet on it. 11 and 5 means nothing. Dean Reiber could have put up 11 and 5 at San Jose State if he played 25 minutes/game like Agee did.

A couple things:

1) You included a ton of analysis about SJSU’s poor schedule and the quad / tiers rendering Agee’s contributions meaningless. But there’s a meaningful sample of data (9 games) against NCAA (4) and NIT (5) caliber competition (5 were true road games and 4 games were played at a neutral site in Arizona). His stats for those games only were still pretty solid - 7 ppg / 4 rpg and improved considerably as the season progressed.

2) How can you possibly speculate on how productive Dean could’ve or would’ve been at San Jose State? He scored 11 points on the whole season including 8 points in garbage time against FDU, Sacred Heart and Hofstra.

3) Aren’t you cherry picking a little on Caleb? I get that the competition was better but RHJ’s rebounding numbers on a per minute basis were worse than Agee’s.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Regardless of stats - context may mean more in this case if you are only looking for someone to fill a 12-14 minute slot as a B/U in the pivot. Agee is coming from a 27 mpg main rotational guy who is asked to do too much for a crappy team. Guessing in this case that Pike will be evaluating with more focus on his skillset over stats as the role he may play for RU would be drastically different than for SJS. Also - probably will be evaluated on the team dynamic factor regarding his acceptance to taking a lesser role as a back-up. This may be one of the inhibiting factors in previous misses in portal targets to back-up Cliff......i.e. if you can't offer significant minutes for a player out of the gate.

 

[kcg88]

A couple things:

1) You included a ton of analysis about SJSU’s poor schedule and the quad / tiers rendering Agee’s contributions meaningless. But there’s a meaningful sample of data (9 games) against NCAA (4) and NIT (5) caliber competition (5 were true road games and 4 games were played at a neutral site in Arizona). His stats for those games only were still pretty solid - 7 ppg / 4 rpg and improved considerably as the season progressed.

2) How can you possibly speculate on how productive Dean could’ve or would’ve been at San Jose State? He scored 11 points on the whole season including 8 points in garbage time against FDU, Sacred Heart and Hofstra.

3) Aren’t you cherry picking a little on Caleb? I get that the competition was better but RHJ’s rebounding numbers on a per minute basis were worse than Agee’s.

1. Again you're quoting PPG stats when my entire point is to not look at those.

2. Because I watch basketball and I have some understanding of what players can do against different kinds of competition. My bigger points is that nearly EVERY team has a guy averaging 11 and 5. Here, your post is #5157242. Let's check on #5, #157, and #242.

#5 on KenPom (Houston) had Quentin Grimes average 18 and 6. Okay, obviously the 5th best team in the country would have one.

#157 on KenPom (Miami OH) had Delonte Brown average 13 and 7.

#242 on KenPom (Long Beach) had Chance Hunter average 12 and 6.

Let's play the anagram game. #274 (Western Michigan) had Greg Lee average 13 and 7. #247 (Longwood) had Justin Hill average 11 and 4. #257 (Green Bay) had Emmanuel Ansong average 10 and 5. These are just teams pulled at random based on the numbers of your post. Almost EVERY team has a guy like this and it tells you almost nothing about how good they are, especially when projecting them up a level. Which goes back to my original point: per-game stats are meaningless.

3. I used McConnell as a comparison to provide context, that's all.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Coaches don't select HS or Transfer players based on stats (simple or advanced). They watch them play and project how they would fit on their team based on the role the coach needs them to fill. Pretty simply stuff.

This is not baseball and Money Ball where guys step to the plate individually.... it's a team sport and performance/results are influenced by 4 other guys on the court.

It's like concluding that a guy is a poor rebounder based on rebound rate...then you watch the games and see that he plays with a few guys that rebound like Dennis Rodman....lol

 

[RUInsanityToo]

1. Again you're quoting PPG stats when my entire point is to not look at those.

2. Because I watch basketball and I have some understanding of what players can do against different kinds of competition. My bigger points is that nearly EVERY team has a guy averaging 11 and 5. Here, your post is #5157242. Let's check on #5, #157, and #242.

#5 on KenPom (Houston) had Quentin Grimes average 18 and 6. Okay, obviously the 5th best team in the country would have one.

#157 on KenPom (Miami OH) had Delonte Brown average 13 and 7.

#242 on KenPom (Long Beach) had Chance Hunter average 12 and 6.

Let's play the anagram game. #274 (Western Michigan) had Greg Lee average 13 and 7. #247 (Longwood) had Justin Hill average 11 and 4. #257 (Green Bay) had Emmanuel Ansong average 10 and 5. These are just teams pulled at random based on the numbers of your post. Almost EVERY team has a guy like this and it tells you almost nothing about how good they are, especially when projecting them up a level. Which goes back to my original point: per-game stats are meaningless.

3. I used McConnell as a comparison to provide context, that's all.

I agree that ppg stats are not as valuable as advanced stats (i.e. per 40 / 100 possessions). I haven't found a good site for even more granular situational NCAA stats similar to what is done with the NBA.

That being said - here's an analogy of why Advanced Stats may not so applicable in this case (where Agee's role will be different at RU).......

If you examine the stats for a Starting Pitcher in MLB against a certain lineup and look at his stats over 6+ innings using 4 different pitches in variation. Those stats might not be a good barometer of how that same pitcher would perform against a segment of that same lineup in a 1 inning or less relief role where he is only using his 2 best pitches.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

1. Again you're quoting PPG stats when my entire point is to not look at those.

2. Because I watch basketball and I have some understanding of what players can do against different kinds of competition. My bigger points is that nearly EVERY team has a guy averaging 11 and 5. Here, your post is #5157242. Let's check on #5, #157, and #242.

#5 on KenPom (Houston) had Quentin Grimes average 18 and 6. Okay, obviously the 5th best team in the country would have one.

#157 on KenPom (Miami OH) had Delonte Brown average 13 and 7.

#242 on KenPom (Long Beach) had Chance Hunter average 12 and 6.

Let's play the anagram game. #274 (Western Michigan) had Greg Lee average 13 and 7. #247 (Longwood) had Justin Hill average 11 and 4. #257 (Green Bay) had Emmanuel Ansong average 10 and 5. These are just teams pulled at random based on the numbers of your post. Almost EVERY team has a guy like this and it tells you almost nothing about how good they are, especially when projecting them up a level. Which goes back to my original point: per-game stats are meaningless.

3. I used McConnell as a comparison to provide context, that's all.

You realize the goal here would be to add a big body to absorb 10-15 minutes a game right?

Agee has 25+ lb on all the guys you mentioned. He played 9 games (45% of his schedule) against NIT caliber or better teams last year and proved he could contribute in those games. The guys you mentioned didn’t. His numbers steadily improved last season from the prior year as well.

I’m not sure what type of a player you could be expecting to back up Cliff but a producer on a bad team whose looking to finally play for a competitive team in his last year of eligibility (even if he doesn’t see as much PT) seems like a great addition.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Regardless of whether or not his skills translate to the B1G, it’s almost July, and once again we appear to be in the “beggars can’t be choosers” category for a backup big man. We almost have to take him if we can get him and hope for the best.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

You realize the goal here would be to add a big body to absorb 10-15 minutes a game right?

Agee has 25+ lb on all the guys you mentioned. He played 9 games (45% of his schedule) against NIT caliber or better teams last year and proved he could contribute in those games. The guys you mentioned didn’t. His numbers steadily improved last season from the prior year as well.

I’m not sure what type of a player you could be expecting to back up Cliff but a producer on a bad team whose looking to finally play for a competitive team in his last year of eligibility (even if he doesn’t see as much PT) seems like a great addition.

Probably hoping for Trayce Jackson-Davis or similar.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I agree that ppg stats are not as valuable as advanced stats (i.e. per 40 / 100 possessions). I haven't found a good site for even more granular situational NCAA stats similar to what is done with the NBA.

That being said - here's an analogy of why Advanced Stats may not so applicable in this case (where Agee's role will be different at RU).......

If you examine the stats for a Starting Pitcher in MLB against a certain lineup and look at his stats over 6+ innings using 4 different pitches in variation. Those stats might not be a good barometer of how that same pitcher would perform against a segment of that same lineup in a 1 inning or less relief role where he is only using his 2 best pitches.

Advanced stats are not all that valuable for a big kid who plays on a terrible team. Surrounding cast plays a major role.

We need a utility player who can finish strong on a few put backs a game and help clear the glass on the defensive end for 10 minutes or so a game. At this stage, this kid seems like a great pick up. I can’t imagine who else some folks think we’re going to get to back up Cliff.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Probably hoping for Trayce Jackson-Davis or similar.

Right - I’m sure there are tons of 34 mpg types looking to cut their PT in half to come to RU to be Cliff’s back ups.

 

[Gudenham]

Xl

Example?

You mentioned in a previous comment about a player's tendencies (going left/right, etc). Those are all tracked by Synergy. I never denied that coaches watch film (i mean, duh), but advanced stats help immensely in evaluating a player. It is beyond ignorant to deny their importance. If John Wooden had analytics, he'd use them.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Right - I’m sure there are tons of 34 mpg types looking to cut their PT in half to come to RU to be Cliff’s back ups.

True. However, Cliff’s backup is going to play a lot of minutes. I’m guessing he’s better than Reiber and Cliff is in foul trouble a lot…and God forbid there’s an injury. It’s not a bad place to be for a backup big.

 

[kcg88]

You realize the goal here would be to add a big body to absorb 10-15 minutes a game right?

Agee has 25+ lb on all the guys you mentioned. He played 9 games (45% of his schedule) against NIT caliber or better teams last year and proved he could contribute in those games. The guys you mentioned didn’t. His numbers steadily improved last season from the prior year as well.

I’m not sure what type of a player you could be expecting to back up Cliff but a producer on a bad team whose looking to finally play for a competitive team in his last year of eligibility (even if he doesn’t see as much PT) seems like a great addition.

Perhaps you could re-read my original post:

Well his numbers are bad but I watched his highlight reel and they had this dude playing like point forward and initiating the offense and trying to make plays off the bounce. San Jose State was a truly terrible team so they had to rely on this, I guess. Get him out of that role and maybe there's something there.

Also he shot 41% in those 9 games you keep bringing up... not exactly helping your case.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I will preface this with Pikiell has gotten a lot right and I trust him........

However.....
Agee is 6'8''
Rebounding stats are not good on a terrible rebounding team (that is very bad)
He had 5 block shots all year
Didn't make a 3.

On the surface this is a huge head scratcher.

Is Dean Reiber that bad?
Are we better off going small and playing Hyatt at center?

I know stats don't mean anything, but they look real bad.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

On 2nd glance his 2019-20 numbers look a lot better. Rebounding metrics are fine. Blocks are way up.

You wonder if he was hurt. He missed the last regular season game and only played 16 minutes in MWC tournament game.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

You mentioned in a previous comment about a player's tendencies (going left/right, etc). Those are all tracked by Synergy. I never denied that coaches watch film (i mean, duh), but advanced stats help immensely in evaluating a player. It is beyond ignorant to deny their importance. If John Wooden had analytics, he'd use them.

I literally said they check important stats...but, nothing is more valuable than watching a team play and how specific players play within the team dynamic. For this guy Agee, someone said he shoots 41% on 2's. But, you gotta watch to determine why.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'll write whatever I want to write.

and I'll read it

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

On 2nd glance his 2019-20 numbers look a lot better. Rebounding metrics are fine. Blocks are way up.

You wonder if he was hurt. He missed the last regular season game and only played 16 minutes in MWC tournament game.

I doubt he was playing hurt. He had a stretch from mid Jan to mid Feb where he played 32+ min per game and I’d assume he was only sitting during the UNLV game because of foul trouble (he dropped 18 and 6 in that one in 25 min but had 4 fouls).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I doubt he was playing hurt. He had a stretch from mid Jan to mid Feb where he played 32+ min per game and I’d assume he was only sitting during the UNLV game because of foul trouble (he dropped 18 and 6 in that one in 25 min but had 4 fouls).

He had a DNP last regular season game....that was my yellow flag.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Perhaps you could re-read my original post:


Also he shot 41% in those 9 games you keep bringing up... not exactly helping your case.

Why are you so caught up on shooting percentage for a guy whose role wouldn’t be to attempt shots at RU unless they are extremely high percentage? SJSU had no other options - they were always looking to get him the ball and probably weren’t able to do so often in a position where he could do much with it. That go to role wouldn’t be his role at RU. Nothing close to it.

In several of those 9 games, he also got to the FT line 7-8 times. That’s relevant data. Being able to draw fouls against Boise type teams, leads me to believe he could potentially hold his own in the paint against at least mid level BIG teams for 10 minutes or so. That’s what we need.

Your shooting percentage stats (efficiency adjusted or not) aren’t meaningful because he won’t have the green light at RU to take any of those horrible shots that SJSU needed him to take.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

He had a DNP last regular season game....that was my yellow flag.

Yeah it’s possible he was banged up for the last 2 games but it doesn’t seem like he was playing hurt the whole season was my point.

It seems like he had a rough start to 2020-21 through the first 5 games then turned things around. He scored in double digits in 12 of his last 15 games and despite not shooting well, held his own in the SDSU games. If you look at the play by play on the last one, it seems like SJSU kept it close until he got in foul trouble. Agee did a good job there on the defensive glass.

 

[kcg88]

Why are you so caught up on shooting percentage for a guy whose role wouldn’t be to attempt shots at RU unless they are extremely high percentage? SJSU had no other options - they were always looking to get him the ball and probably weren’t able to do so often in a position where he could do much with it. That go to role wouldn’t be his role at RU. Nothing close to it.

In several of those 9 games, he also got to the FT line 7-8 times. That’s relevant data. Being able to draw fouls against Boise type teams, leads me to believe he could potentially hold his own in the paint against at least mid level BIG teams for 10 minutes or so. That’s what we need.

Your shooting percentage stats (efficiency adjusted or not) aren’t meaningful because he won’t have the green light at RU to take any of those horrible shots that SJSU needed him to take.

Because my original point were that his numbers were bad but there could be something there in a different role and then six people tried to argue about that with me.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Because my original point were that his numbers were bad but there could be something there in a different role and then six people tried to argue about that with me.

Bigs don’t control how an offense flows. If you think guys like Shaq Carter or Doorson would have had decent efficiency numbers if expected to be one of the top go-to options while playing on a terrible team with bad guards who couldn’t get them the ball in a position to score I don’t know what to tell you. There’s just no way. Only the very best Big men in the country would’ve put up good efficiency numbers playing on that team.

 

[kcg88]

Bigs don’t control how an offense flows. If you think guys like Shaq Carter or Doorson would have had decent efficiency numbers if expected to be one of the top go-to options while playing on a terrible team with bad guards who couldn’t get them the ball in a position to score I don’t know what to tell you. There’s just no way. Only the very best Big men in the country would’ve put up good efficiency numbers playing on that team.

Yes I know that which is why I said in my first two posts in this thread "San Jose State was a truly terrible team so they had to rely on this, I guess. Get him out of that role and maybe there's something there."

And also "there's some athleticism and footwork to work with. If he's ready to accept a much scrappier role, I guess it could work."

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

I just don’t understand how we can be in the Big Ten, win a game in the dance, and this is the best we can come up with at this point. I guess no one gives a poop all that we have accomplished with Pike. The portal sucks

 

[kcg88]

I just don’t understand how we can be in the Big Ten, win a game in the dance, and this is the best we can come up with at this point. I guess no one gives a poop all that we have accomplished with Pike. The portal sucks

The portal is very guard and wing heavy. Big men tend to be at a premium. Only 8 of the top 100 transfers on the ESPN list are centers.

And we did land a former 4 star in Hyatt.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes I know that which is why I said in my first two posts in this thread "San Jose State was a truly terrible team so they had to rely on this, I guess. Get him out of that role and maybe there's something there."

And also "there's some athleticism and footwork to work with. If he's ready to accept a much scrappier role, I guess it could work."

I think people challenged because your tone sounded very skeptical but when you take a step back to be realistic, landing this kid for the back up 5 would by all counts be the second best situation we could hope for (behind missing out on Pauly) and that was another guy folks on here weren’t excited about. I found that shocking. I felt then that Pauly was easily be the best option for a 5 that would consider RU this year. Unfortunately WVU beat us out). Agee is similar to Pauly in that the motivation for transferring is likely to be about simply going out a winner in his final year (to play for a team that will have a real shot to make the NCAAs). That’s the only type of grad transfer that the back up 5 role would appeal to. Agee is not as good a defensive player as Pauly. But he improved year over year and proved he can at least contribute on a roster that played pretty decent competition.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

The portal is very guard and wing heavy. Big men tend to be at a premium. Only 8 of the top 100 transfers on the ESPN list are centers.

And we did land a former 4 star in Hyatt.

Jury’s out on Hyatt. Honestly, could be the next Keith Hughes - or not.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

1. Again you're quoting PPG stats when my entire point is to not look at those.

2. Because I watch basketball and I have some understanding of what players can do against different kinds of competition. My bigger points is that nearly EVERY team has a guy averaging 11 and 5. Here, your post is #5157242. Let's check on #5, #157, and #242.

#5 on KenPom (Houston) had Quentin Grimes average 18 and 6. Okay, obviously the 5th best team in the country would have one.

#157 on KenPom (Miami OH) had Delonte Brown average 13 and 7.

#242 on KenPom (Long Beach) had Chance Hunter average 12 and 6.

Let's play the anagram game. #274 (Western Michigan) had Greg Lee average 13 and 7. #247 (Longwood) had Justin Hill average 11 and 4. #257 (Green Bay) had Emmanuel Ansong average 10 and 5. These are just teams pulled at random based on the numbers of your post. Almost EVERY team has a guy like this and it tells you almost nothing about how good they are, especially when projecting them up a level. Which goes back to my original point: per-game stats are meaningless.

3. I used McConnell as a comparison to provide context, that's all.

Very strange, because I think you're arguing or leading the discussion that this player is not good or has no value, but Penn State landed a kid who started at Cal-State Bakersfield then transferred to Western Michigan and averaged 13PPG and 7RPG.....

Agee in a similar league (MAC vs Mountain West are close leagues but most sane CBB fans would state that the Mountain West was better) where Agee averaged 11 & 5.

The linked article on a Penn State page claims Lee is "a big get".....

I don't know if it's perception or just lack of awareness, but Agee and Lee might be similar or the same and both are 6'8 or 6'9".....there no clear separation between either player IMO.

The other borderline ridiculous argument is "there are slim pickings "....LOL...if anything, this years clearly proves the exact opposite....there are way more transfers of quality available vs spots on rosters around the country...and kids entered the portal at all times from mid March to even today (end of June). There is no such thing as a limited pool of options.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/victorybellrings.com/2021/06/06/penn-state-basketball-greg-lee/amp/

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

The other borderline ridiculous argument is "there are slim pickings "....LOL...if anything, this years clearly proves the exact opposite....there are way more transfers of quality available vs spots on rosters around the country...and kids entered the portal at all times from mid March to even today (end of June). There is no such thing as a limited pool of options.

The “slim pickings” isn’t with respect to the portal as a whole but rather realistic candidates to fill this particular back up 5 role (and as unexciting as it is, we do need to fill it). All of the following criteria have to “fit” or the interest wouldn’t be there from one side or the other to start:

1) weighs 230 or more AND is at least 6-8.
2) has proven D1 experience (played meaningful minutes with prior team) playing the 5
3) did not enter the portal with aspiration of more PT and / or to go somewhere that he will be a likely starter.
4) okay with playing a lesser role than with prior team.

The options really do narrow down a lot when you realize that RU probably isn’t interested in picking up someone for this role who doesn’t check the first 2 boxes, and the 3rd and 4th criteria are going to be deal breakers for anyone who did well on any halfway decent team. Indiana’s star center was never coming to Rutgers to share PT with Cliff.