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OT: UNC Roy Williams

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Russ Wood

Heisman
Oct 12, 2011
94,313
45,143
0
Word is that over the past several years Roy didn't like the direction CBB was heading.

One person told me that when Walker Kessler entered the portal it was the straw that broke Roy's back but he took some time to think about whether or not he would be happier stepping away from the game at this point or sticking it out a few more seasons.
 
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rubaseball78_rivals

Heisman
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
16,131
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Russ Wood said:
It wasn't just for athletes.

The school should have lost its accreditation over that mess.
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Just because it was open to others does not make it right. It was heavily populated with NC athletes, more than what would be typical in courses. If your justification for it was non-athletes could take the courses then you are turning a blind eye to what was really going on as published email trails showed.
 
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Russ Wood

Heisman
Oct 12, 2011
94,313
45,143
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rubaseball78 said:
Just because it was open to others does not make it right. It was heavily populated with NC athletes, more than what would be typical in courses. If your justification for it was non-athletes could take the courses then you are turning a blind eye to what was really going on as published email trails showed.
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I absolutely agree that no show classes are not right.

The reason I pointed out that students who weren't also athletes were able to take those classes is because when the NCAA makes a ruling about impermissible benefits it is based on student-athletes getting the benefit because they are student-athletes.

Like I posted earlier, North Carolina should have lost their accreditation over those fake classes.
 
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rubaseball78_rivals

Heisman
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
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Russ Wood said:
I absolutely agree that no show classes are not right.

The reason I pointed out that students who weren't also athletes were able to take those classes is because when the NCAA makes a ruling about impermissible benefits it is based on student-athletes getting the benefit because they are student-athletes.

Like I posted earlier, North Carolina should have lost their accreditation over those fake classes.
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To me, that was a cop out by NCAA in their ruling.
 
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Russ Wood

Heisman
Oct 12, 2011
94,313
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rubaseball78 said:
To me, that was a cop out by NCAA in their ruling.
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I agree. I'm still mad that I allowed myself to believe the NCAA would drop some sanctions on them. It was at least a week before I first thought that UNC would skate because students who weren't athletes would remove an impermissible benefits charge.

IIRC, the NCAA ultimately punted by saying this was an academic issue and not a NCAA issue. However, and I'm not the brightest person, wouldn't that nullify the whole "student-athlete" thing that the NCAA clings to so mightily?
 
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rubaseball78_rivals

Heisman
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
16,131
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Russ Wood said:
I agree. I'm still mad that I allowed myself to believe the NCAA would drop some sanctions on them. It was at least a week before I first thought that UNC would skate because students who weren't athletes would remove an impermissible benefits charge.

IIRC, the NCAA ultimately punted by saying this was an academic issue and not a NCAA issue. However, and I'm not the brightest person, wouldn't that nullify the whole "student-athlete" thing that the NCAA clings to so mightily?
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It rubs me the wrong having been a chem eng student and an athlete where it was not uncommon for me to be taking an exam in my uniform having just returned from a game.
 
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HeavenUniv.

Heisman
Sep 21, 2004
135,536
16,404
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What is with the CBS broadcast practically giggling over this guy during the UCLA/Gonzaga game ? And they aren’t even getting the name of the school right. It is the University of No Classes. No mention at all while they are worshipping him about the joke academics.
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
HeavenUniv. said:
What is with the CBS broadcast practically giggling over this guy during the UCLA/Gonzaga game ? And they aren’t even getting the name of the school right. It is the University of No Classes. No mention at all while they are worshipping him about the joke academics.
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Because the guy was a great coach and won championships. The minor stuff on this board that a few misguided folks care about don’t understand college sports. No one cares what homework anyone does or doesn’t
 
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Knights 1212

All-American
Sep 9, 2003
27,558
8,493
113
The NCAA just caved in to North Carolina. This will always bother me that they copped out and showed no brass at all. To me North Carolina CHEATED BIG TIME and got away with no punishment at all. Roy Williams had to have known this was wrong and knew that this benefitted his team. So much for honesty and integrity.
 
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RUinPinehurst

RUinPinehurst

All-American
Aug 27, 2011
8,405
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And the fact that the scandal was rooted in a newly formed Department of African and Afro-American Studies and the MBB program recruited academically ill-equiped African-American kids? Wow.

Rashad McCants is the poster child. Went from academic probation to the dean's list over a miracle summer, not having attended a single class.

That Wainstein Report was commissioned by UNC to begin investigating in year 1993. Wonder why? Hint: 22 of the first 25 "student-athletes" who took the phantom classes were MBB players, under Dean Smith. The "Carolina Way."

Go Heels! And Happy Easter!
 
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TDIrish27

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2001
4,438
2,666
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LotusAggressor said:
The NCAA always cops out when it comes to punishing substantial violations by prominent programs.
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It wasn't a substantial violation in their view.

They had more regular students having taken the class than athletes so there's a justification for their decision.

I don't like it but I can see the NCAA's point.
 
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Night Man

All-Conference
Jan 8, 2006
29,783
3,710
113
Hubert. Loved the Knicks teams with him so I have a soft spot for him. But I think this is way more of a risk than a program like UNC needs to take. At the same time, there was so much support for Hubert that not hiring him would've soured things in many ways.
 
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koko2315

All-Conference
Aug 12, 2007
1,115
1,097
68
Night Man said:
Hubert. Loved the Knicks teams with him so I have a soft spot for him. But I think this is way more of a risk than a program like UNC needs to take. At the same time, there was so much support for Hubert that not hiring him would've soured things in many ways.
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It’s an immensely tough way to go...on the one hand you got Doherty who was the last “keep it in the family at all costs” guy. But Hubert has been groomed for some years now. doh was the backups backup plan when Roy stayed at KU.

part of what makes Carolina basketball what it is...the legacy of Dean and still running the program his way.
 
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srru86

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
17,880
4,199
113
Russ Wood said:
The school should have lost its accreditation over that mess.
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Yes they should. The level of probation on which the accreditor hit them was unheard of for a school of UNCs size and stature. It's usually reserved for small time outfits facing bankruptcy. The next level would have been suspending the schools accreditation. Which would have meant no federal funding, loans anything, for students, not just athletes.

Tarheels overlook that the story they told the accreditor in the mitigation plan was very different from what they told the NCAA in weaseling out of it.

First they told the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools that no one graduated based on the bogus credits.
Then they told the NCAA plenty of non-athletes got bogus credits so no special treatment for athletes. NCAA swallowed that fig leave and the NCACS never went back to follow up.

Who had more grounds to further penalize UNC? Athletic eligibility is the second reason the NCAA exists after keeping CFB players from killing each other circa 1905. The accreditor doesn't really have any stake in the athletic programs. They were both lame - but NCAA much more so.
 
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RUinPinehurst

RUinPinehurst

All-American
Aug 27, 2011
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koko2315 said:
It’s an immensely tough way to go...on the one hand you got Doherty who was the last “keep it in the family at all costs” guy. But Hubert has been groomed for some years now. doh was the backups backup plan when Roy stayed at KU.

part of what makes Carolina basketball what it is...the legacy of Dean and still running the program his way.
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FYI... Doherty was not the last of UNC's mandate to "keep it in the family at all costs." Williams went to UNC, played JV ball, and as a student, assisted Smith's staff, later returning post-grad as a paid assistant.
 
RUinPinehurst

RUinPinehurst

All-American
Aug 27, 2011
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TDIrish27 said:
It wasn't a substantial violation in their view.

They had more regular students having taken the class than athletes so there's a justification for their decision.

I don't like it but I can see the NCAA's point.
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False. UNC violated the spirit of the rules, if not the rules themselves. It was a matter of successful rule manipulation by UNC, as the "benefit" of receiving a grade and credit for the fake classes was available to all students, not just athletes, although athletes took advantage of the classes much more often than the general student population. In fact, many "sections/courses" were exclusive to athletes.

The NCAA originally cited UNC with multiple major rule infractions. They just couldn't find the will to challenge UNC in a court of law, as UNC said our academics are our business, not yours. So the NCAA retreated. The legitimacy of an institution's "Academics" was the individual school's concern not the NCAA's. Which, of course, is horse ****.
 
RUBigFrank

RUBigFrank

All-Conference
Jun 9, 2003
2,865
1,785
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I imagine that counsel for the NCAA determined that it would be difficult to pursue sanctions legally as it falls outside their jurisdiction of repsonsibility
 
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srru86

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
17,880
4,199
113
RUBigFrank said:
I imagine that counsel for the NCAA determined that it would be difficult to pursue sanctions legally as it falls outside their jurisdiction of repsonsibility
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The reason the NCAA exists is to police the eligibility of student athletes.

Their mission statement includes: "to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount"

How does running a fake credit granting program for student athletes and the children of athletics boosters fall outside their purview?

If they were afraid of being out lawyered by the Tarheels they need new lawyers.

If they really think it wasn't their job they need to hand in their badges and find new work.

There are plenty of ways to run a popular televised hoops tournament that doesn't involve all the overhead that comes with the NCAA.

I'd prefer Emmert and Co. actually do the job they are so well compensated to do.
 
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