Conjecture about team conflict

[BoogieKnight]

Who cares if they were likable ?? Really, what are you 11 with posters on your bedroom wall. This team broke the drought, and won a tournament game. One bounce the other way and they’re still playing . It was a season for the ages ! I “liked” it very much and so should every rutgers fan . You know what isn’t likable , losing !

I agree and I’m actually with you in a sense. I’m happy the NCAA tournament appearance and tourney win droughts were broken. But I’m content with some of these guys moving on is what I’m trying to say. I don’t get the handwringing over this team splitting up because quite honestly. I don’t think we’re all that good. We’re just ok.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Any coach is not going to coach 13 different personalities the same way, so it would not make sense to "coddle" someone that is over 23 years old vs someone that is 20 or 21....or 18 to 19....

In regards to JY specifically, look we all have fan favorites and those who inflate someone's importance at the expense of another players.....but here is the reality of the situation.....You are not going to win or play consistent basketball, when Jacob Young is your "best" player.....he was far too inconsistent on offense, was not a PG and not a player who looked for others enough when he had the ball. He played to his strengths and Pike (to me) allowed Young as much rope as anyone who turned the ball over as carelessly and consistently as JY did.

Our board reads EXACTLY like the Texas message boards looked like when it was announced he was transferring. Most were really not heartbroken and felt he played outside of the team concepts and looked for his own offense.....with as many similarly talented players at Texas, that made him expendable.....when RU was in the midst of a full rebuild and absent the type of athlete Jacob provided, his game appears better than what is actually was......

I know it's not exactly the same situation of where the rosters were at the same time, but Corey Sanders took a LOT of unnecessary heat for not being able to carry an entire team on his back during Pikes 1st 2 seasons....but Sanders is and was miles, miles more effective as a complete 2 way guard than Jacob Young was.....it's just unfortunate that if you had a chance to flip flop eras, Sanders would have been a much better fit and is a more complete guard than Jacob Young was. But that's just me watching someone who is getting credited as the best player or leader and ignoring how his play and leadership isn't what RU could have used in key spots.

Young has world class athletic ability but I don't think he processed basketball as a lead guard, to play consistently enough and under control.....if he did more of that, RU would have gladly rode Jacob as option #1 or 2....He was just too erratic to be deemed a player you can count on but he was the right player and brought the effort and swagger needed to help lift RU from "also rans" to NCAA caliber.....no player is perfect but there's no way you can even approach Young being unfairly coached, with as often as he turned the ball over. We got as much mileage out of Jacob and I believe it is 100% best he takes his talents elsewhere....we have to develop new players and I'm looking forward, not backwards.

 

[sunsetregret]

Who cares if they were likable ?? Really, what are you 11 with posters on your bedroom wall. This team broke the drought, and won a tournament game. One bounce the other way and they’re still playing . It was a season for the ages ! I “liked” it very much and so should every rutgers fan . You know what isn’t likable , losing !

Winning teams have enthusiasm; this team didn't.

 

[Plum Street]

Winning teams have enthusiasm; this team didn't.

They won !! This is rutgers we are talking about . They not only won but won historically

 

[RUBOB72]

What about those “ these guys really like each other...” they like playing with each other” . Those are not my words but Pikiell a number of times.

 

[sunsetregret]

They won !! This is rutgers we are talking about . They not only won but won historically

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Any coach is not going to coach 13 different personalities the same way, so it would not make sense to "coddle" someone that is over 23 years old vs someone that is 20 or 21....or 18 to 19....

In regards to JY specifically, look we all have fan favorites and those who inflate someone's importance at the expense of another players.....but here is the reality of the situation.....You are not going to win or play consistent basketball, when Jacob Young is your "best" player.....he was far too inconsistent on offense, was not a PG and not a player who looked for others enough when he had the ball. He played to his strengths and Pike (to me) allowed Young as much rope as anyone who turned the ball over as carelessly and consistently as JY did.

Our board reads EXACTLY like the Texas message boards looked like when it was announced he was transferring. Most were really not heartbroken and felt he played outside of the team concepts and looked for his own offense.....with as many similarly talented players at Texas, that made him expendable.....when RU was in the midst of a full rebuild and absent the type of athlete Jacob provided, his game appears better than what is actually was......

I know it's not exactly the same situation of where the rosters were at the same time, but Corey Sanders took a LOT of unnecessary heat for not being able to carry an entire team on his back during Pikes 1st 2 seasons....but Sanders is and was miles, miles more effective as a complete 2 way guard than Jacob Young was.....it's just unfortunate that if you had a chance to flip flop eras, Sanders would have been a much better fit and is a more complete guard than Jacob Young was. But that's just me watching someone who is getting credited as the best player or leader and ignoring how his play and leadership isn't what RU could have used in key spots.

Young has world class athletic ability but I don't think he processed basketball as a lead guard, to play consistently enough and under control.....if he did more of that, RU would have gladly rode Jacob as option #1 or 2....He was just too erratic to be deemed a player you can count on but he was the right player and brought the effort and swagger needed to help lift RU from "also rans" to NCAA caliber.....no player is perfect but there's no way you can even approach Young being unfairly coached, with as often as he turned the ball over. We got as much mileage out of Jacob and I believe it is 100% best he takes his talents elsewhere....we have to develop new players and I'm looking forward, not backwards.

I agree with you 100%.

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

I only think Geo and Mathis went backwards. Johnson stagnated as did Caleb and Harper. Harper had an incredibly good start and an incredibly poor finish. Mulcahy definitely improved, however.

 

[RULoyal]

I said back in the beginning of football season that I would take any teams performance (good or bad) during this F’d up season with more than a few grains of salt. This includes basketball. I think I will wait for a more normal season to make any judgments.

 

[Plum Street]

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

Underachieved ?? Crazy

 

[BoogieKnight]

What did they “win” exactly? They didn’t have a winning regular season in the B1G (10-10). They got bounced in the second game of the B1G tournament. Even our 98 team made it to the Big East Tournament semifinal and I was expecting a similar run. Yes we made the NCAA tourney and won a first round game but again, with a senior laden team like this I’d say making at least a regional semifinal should be the benchmark. If we were a bunch of freshman and sophomores and we could point to this as just the start, ok. But instead it was the end. I’m guessing that was the frustration behind PM’s tweet.

 

[Plum Street]

What did they “win” exactly? They didn’t have a winning regular season in the B1G (10-10). They got bounced in the second game of the B1G tournament. Even our 98 team made it to the Big East Tournament semifinal and I was expecting a similar run. Yes we made the NCAA tourney and won a first round game but again, with a senior laden team like this I’d say making at least a regional semifinal is successful. If we were a bunch of freshman and sophomores this would be just the start but instead it was the end. I’m guessing that was the frustration behind PM’s tweet.

Huh ? This is rutgers you root for . We celebrated losing in the NIT

 

[BoogieKnight]

Huh ? This is rutgers you root for . We celebrated losing in the NIT

LOL. Sorry for expecting more I guess? I think last years team was better and would have made a deeper run based on how they were playing heading into March.

 

[seneca ave]

my opinon , HC caused the problem during the preseason. Last year the team was playing great the last 7 to 8 games, Geo was the catalyst n the leader.....sometime in sept. or oct. I read a several articles that HC wanted PM to be a leader a vocal leader on the court. If you watch film of the games early in the season, PM took it to heart, calling huddles and breaking them up like he was back in highschool for his senior year. any one make a play PM was in their face and giving instructions.. Not Paul's fault , but l think some players did not respond well to the sophomore being appointed leader by the coach.

 

[Plum Street]

LOL. Sorry for expecting more I guess? I think last years team was better and would have made a deeper run based on how they were playing heading into March.

It’s ok . No need to be sorry . Now you know. This is rutgers . Seriously , our fanbase once celebrated losing in the NIT in 2004

 

[BoogieKnight]

It’s ok . No need to be sorry . Now you know. This is rutgers . Seriously , our fanbase once celebrated losing in the NIT in 2004

I know. I was at the final at MSG lol.

 

[Plum Street]

I know. I was at the final at MSG lol.

See . Just take some perspective of this program

 

[RutgHoops]

Up 8 with 4:20 left against the #2 seed, it sure as heck didn't look like there was much team conflict to me.

 

[Joey Bags]

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

Where in the f*** do you people come up with these takes? Hostages forced to play basketball? Are you kidding me guy?

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

my opinon , HC caused the problem during the preseason. Last year the team was playing great the last 7 to 8 games, Geo was the catalyst n the leader.....sometime in sept. or oct. I read a several articles that HC wanted PM to be a leader a vocal leader on the court. If you watch film of the games early in the season, PM took it to heart, calling huddles and breaking them up like he was back in highschool for his senior year. any one make a play PM was in their face and giving instructions.. Not Paul's fault , but l think some players did not respond well to the sophomore being appointed leader by the coach.

Interesting...

 

[Plum Street]

Up 8 with 4:20 left against the #2 seed, it sure as heck didn't look like there was much team conflict to me.

That’s it . One bounce the other way and we are saying how this is the most tight knit rutgers team ever and how much they enjoy playing together

 

[fluoxetine]

Winning teams have enthusiasm; this team didn't.

Winning teams win. The season is over, you can look at the ******* win loss record.

 

[gigantor1024]

I’m going to come right out and say it. This wasn’t a very likable team. And it has nothing to do with the NIL tweets. Too many times throughout the season there was bad body language, moping, etc. As a HS coach it reminded me of a moody, immature high school team and why I left coaching.

JY was NOT one of the culpable ones in my opinion. Kid exuded energy and positivity night in and night out. And I was hard on him at times during the 19-20 season. But he won me over this year. Mulcahy also was not one of the malcontents. He needs work, especially on D, but give me a team full of JYs and PMs from an attitude standpoint any day.

I’m not going to point out the players who I think displayed the worst of it. But I’ll say only one of them are expected to return next year. The rest will be gone and I think it will be a net positive.

This is may be the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years

Pike needs to have Jon Gordon speak with the team next season.

I agree with you 110%. I also coached HS athletics, and I think maybe we view it from a slightly different viewpoint. Nothing pissed me off more than a talented kid with a bad attitude.

correction this is the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

Okay wait. I’m sorry. THIS IS THE DUMBEST TAKE IN THE HISTORY OF RUTGERS SPORTS.
I wonder why the **** they looked like hostages out there. Or why the **** this dumb *** Boogie Knight saw mopey body language.

have you and the Rut coached teams during a global pandemic when sports in all likelihood SHOULDNT have been played at all for a year. ITS PATHETIC this ******* country couldn’t go a ******* year without sports. What the **** do you think is going to happen if there’s a nuclearwinter. NCAA gonna host that Indy tournament for sure.

its almost as if this team had to be completely isolated for a year, couldn’t see family, loved ones. Couldn’t do fun things to unwind after a win. Or a loss. No fans in the stands cheering them on.

oh but meanwhile throughout a pandemic that killed over 500,000 Americans, while the NCAA raked in the $$$ because of how desperate and detrimental to those institutions that need their college sports to spur the economy.

you three are the biggest ******* idiots I’ve ever seen on this site.

love to see you guys coach a team through this pandemic. You ******* screen huggers are pathetic

 

[Plum Street]

This is may be the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years
correction this is the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years

Okay wait. I’m sorry. THIS IS THE DUMBEST TAKE IN THE HISTORY OF RUTGERS SPORTS.
I wonder why the **** they looked like hostages out there. Or why the **** this dumb *** Boogie Knight saw mopey body language.

have you and the Rut coached teams during a global pandemic when sports in all likelihood SHOULDNT have been played at all for a year. ITS PATHETIC this ****ing country couldn’t go a ****ing year without sports. What the **** do you think is going to happen if there’s a nuclearwinter. NCAA gonna host that Indy tournament for sure.

its almost as if this team had to be completely isolated for a year, couldn’t see family, loved ones. Couldn’t do fun things to unwind after a win. Or a loss. No fans in the stands cheering them on.

oh but meanwhile throughout a pandemic that killed over 500,000 Americans, while the NCAA raked in the $$$ because of how desperate and detrimental to those institutions that need their college sports to spur the economy.

you three are the biggest ****ing idiots I’ve ever seen on this site.

love to see you guys coach a team through this pandemic. You ****ing screen huggers are pathetic

Tell us how you really feel.
Agree playing college sports without colleges being open was wrong . But we all enjoyed it .

 

[Colbert17!]

I don't know what to think of this team.
One thing that struck me many times this season was a lack of crispness to their play. Screens were set in a half *** fashion, people made cuts because that's what they were supposed to do instead making a hard cut to get open.
For me that's on Pike.

 

[kcg88]

my opinon , HC caused the problem during the preseason. Last year the team was playing great the last 7 to 8 games, Geo was the catalyst n the leader.....sometime in sept. or oct. I read a several articles that HC wanted PM to be a leader a vocal leader on the court. If you watch film of the games early in the season, PM took it to heart, calling huddles and breaking them up like he was back in highschool for his senior year. any one make a play PM was in their face and giving instructions.. Not Paul's fault , but l think some players did not respond well to the sophomore being appointed leader by the coach.

Early in the season? You mean when they were ranked #11?

This thread is hilarious.

 

[The RUT]

This is may be the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years
correction this is the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years

Okay wait. I’m sorry. THIS IS THE DUMBEST TAKE IN THE HISTORY OF RUTGERS SPORTS.
I wonder why the **** they looked like hostages out there. Or why the **** this dumb *** Boogie Knight saw mopey body language.

have you and the Rut coached teams during a global pandemic when sports in all likelihood SHOULDNT have been played at all for a year. ITS PATHETIC this ****ing country couldn’t go a ****ing year without sports. What the **** do you think is going to happen if there’s a nuclearwinter. NCAA gonna host that Indy tournament for sure.

its almost as if this team had to be completely isolated for a year, couldn’t see family, loved ones. Couldn’t do fun things to unwind after a win. Or a loss. No fans in the stands cheering them on.

oh but meanwhile throughout a pandemic that killed over 500,000 Americans, while the NCAA raked in the $$$ because of how desperate and detrimental to those institutions that need their college sports to spur the economy.

you three are the biggest ****ing idiots I’ve ever seen on this site.

love to see you guys coach a team through this pandemic. You ****ing screen huggers are pathetic

They all had the right to opt out for the season and wouldn’t have lost a year of eligibility.

Your head is going to explode in 5 years when we’re still talking about covid season and you’re wearing 6 masks to keep yourself safe.

And this team would be so lucky to have someone like Jon Gordon speak to them.

 

[willisneverrana43]

The nonsensiest of nonsense threads ever nonsensed.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Some of you people are insane and I’m being nice. We were one possession from the sweet 16 and a match up we most certainly could have won. We had a chance to make a final four run. So we have a thread about bad coaching, chemistry problems, we weren’t very good etc. We actually were very well coached and we were good. Inconsistent sure but we had a damn good squad this year that was capable of making a final four run and beating just about anyone in the country on a given night. I will take that 30 years out of 30. You can be disappointed and still recognize what we accomplished and what was possible with this group of players and coaches.

 

[ru66]

There is no evidence of any major team conflict. This stuff is all made up.

Couldn't agree more especially when there are recent reports of those same players mentioned socializing together

 

[Plum Street]

Couldn't agree more especially when there are recent reports of those same players mentioned socializing together

Well, it’s not like they could socialize with anyone else

 

[BoogieKnight]

This is may be the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years
correction this is the worst take I’ve seen in 30 years

Okay wait. I’m sorry. THIS IS THE DUMBEST TAKE IN THE HISTORY OF RUTGERS SPORTS.
I wonder why the **** they looked like hostages out there. Or why the **** this dumb *** Boogie Knight saw mopey body language.

have you and the Rut coached teams during a global pandemic when sports in all likelihood SHOULDNT have been played at all for a year. ITS PATHETIC this ****ing country couldn’t go a ****ing year without sports. What the **** do you think is going to happen if there’s a nuclearwinter. NCAA gonna host that Indy tournament for sure.

its almost as if this team had to be completely isolated for a year, couldn’t see family, loved ones. Couldn’t do fun things to unwind after a win. Or a loss. No fans in the stands cheering them on.

oh but meanwhile throughout a pandemic that killed over 500,000 Americans, while the NCAA raked in the $$$ because of how desperate and detrimental to those institutions that need their college sports to spur the economy.

you three are the biggest ****ing idiots I’ve ever seen on this site.

love to see you guys coach a team through this pandemic. You ****ing screen huggers are pathetic

1. Calm down and relax with the personal attacks.

2. I am coaching a HS varsity team right now during a pandemic (not basketball). My girls bring energy and enthusiasm every day.

3. lost my dad a year ago today to the virus. You don’t have to remind me of the seriousness of the pandemic.

4. Make all the excuses you want for them in typical Rutgers fan fashion, but objectively speaking this team was nothing great. It was just ok.

5. I have ZERO issues with Pike or the coaching job he did. Guy deserves a statue right now as far as I’m concerned.

6. In my opinion, SOME of the players on this team thought they were better than they actually were, which translated to losses like Penn State and Nebraska where they thought they could just show up and ball out and win.

Sorry if you think this 2020-2021 edition of RU men’s basketball should be free from any and all criticism. Only a handful of RU sports teams hold that privilege in my opinion. 2006 football and 2007 WBB are the two I can think of in my lifetime. Obviously the undefeated football teams and men’s final four team as well.

 

[Colbert17!]

n my opinion, SOME of the players on this team thought they were better than they actually were, which translated to losses like Penn State and Nebraska where they thought they could just show up and ball out and win.

+1,000,000

 

[Jackson206:)]

1. Calm down and relax with the personal attacks.

2. I am coaching a HS varsity team right now during a pandemic (not basketball). My girls bring energy and enthusiasm every day.

3. lost my dad a year ago today to the virus. You don’t have to remind me of the seriousness of the pandemic.

4. Make all the excuses you want for them in typical Rutgers fan fashion, but objectively speaking this team was nothing great. It was just ok.

5. I have ZERO issues with Pike or the coaching job he did. Guy deserves a statue right now as far as I’m concerned.

6. In my opinion, SOME of the players on this team thought they were better than they actually were, which translated to losses like Penn State and Nebraska where they thought they could just show up and ball out and win.

6 above is right on the money. No doubt that was the case.

 

[Salvi's Headband]

They underachieved this year, imo. Nobody improved over last season except for Young. Everyone else took a step back. They looked like hostages being forced to play basketball.

It's not that. Anyone can see that they were really feeling the pressure down the stretch of the regular sesaon. Every game had so much riding on it.

 

[Salvi's Headband]

1. Calm down and relax with the personal attacks.

2. I am coaching a HS varsity team right now during a pandemic (not basketball). My girls bring energy and enthusiasm every day.

3. lost my dad a year ago today to the virus. You don’t have to remind me of the seriousness of the pandemic.

4. Make all the excuses you want for them in typical Rutgers fan fashion, but objectively speaking this team was nothing great. It was just ok.

5. I have ZERO issues with Pike or the coaching job he did. Guy deserves a statue right now as far as I’m concerned.

6. In my opinion, SOME of the players on this team thought they were better than they actually were, which translated to losses like Penn State and Nebraska where they thought they could just show up and ball out and win.

Sorry if you think this 2020-2021 edition of RU men’s basketball should be free from any and all criticism. Only a handful of RU sports teams hold that privilege in my opinion. 2006 football and 2007 WBB are the two I can think of in my lifetime. Obviously the undefeated football teams and men’s final four team as well.

oooh, watch out folks, this guy coaches girls youth basketball!

 

[sunsetregret]

have you and the Rut coached teams during a global pandemic when sports in all likelihood SHOULDNT have been played at all for a year. ITS PATHETIC this ****ing country couldn’t go a ****ing year without sports. What the **** do you think is going to happen if there’s a nuclearwinter. NCAA gonna host that Indy tournament for sure.

Well, if we're talking about THE DUMBEST TAKE IN THE HISTORY OF RUTGERS SPORTS, I see one that is in contention.

Anyone have a list of college basketball players who had serious medical conditions this year directly (or even indirectly) tied to Covid? Everybody make sure we shut down some major industries because gigantor needs some panic porn in his life.

 

[BoogieKnight]

oooh, watch out folks, this guy coaches girls youth basketball!

Great reading comprehension. I said varsity sports and not basketball. And if that’s what you take from my entire post there’s no helping you. Yes some of our players displayed bad body language. If you enjoy making excuses for them have at it. Rutgers fans are really good at that. But all teams still playing in the tournament are playing under the same circumstances. It’s not as if RU was forced to be in a bubble while everyone else carries on as normal.

 

[sunsetregret]

It's not that. Anyone can see that they were really feeling the pressure down the stretch of the regular sesaon. Every game had so much riding on it.

I disagree. I saw a team lacking enthusiasm that for stretches looked like it didn't want to be on the court. Not everybody, but enough of the starters.

Does anyone remember the season (late in his career) when Don Mattingly was moved from #3 in the order to #2 in the order? And that seemingly unimportant move completely wrecked his confidence and sent him into a depression for months? It was all the beat writers talked about at the time ... and whenever they asked him about it, he gave them a dissertation on how the #2 hitter is expected to do completely different things (bunt, move runners over, etc) than the #3 hitter (drive in runs) and he was now having to change his approach at the plate. And overnight, he went from the team leader to a guy who moped and moped? And everyone else in the world was like, "No dude, he just moved you up a space because we don't have two natural fits for the top of the order." Well, sometimes a person wraps their identities around something nobody else realizes is uber-important to him.

My best guess is Baker was crushed when he found out Young was the "point" guard this year and it affected his approach the entire season. Young was the ball handler; Harper was the primary scorer; and Baker acted like his roles on the team had been taken from him. And he spent a huge portion of the season with body language like he didn't know what he was supposed to do and he didn't want to be there - especially every time Young was on the court.

 

[Salvi's Headband]

Great reading comprehension. I said varsity sports and not basketball. And if that’s what you take from my entire post there’s no helping you. Yes some of our players displayed bad body language. If you enjoy making excuses for them have at it. Rutgers fans are really good at that. But all teams still playing in the tournament are playing under the same circumstances. It’s not as of RU was forced to be in a bubble while everyone else carries on as normal.

Your posts are one step up from astrology. Just absolute bullcrap based on nothing but your expert intuition as a coach of girls youth sports. lol. "Body language."

 

[BoogieKnight]

Your posts are one step up from astrology. Just absolute bullcrap based on nothing but your expert intuition as a coach of girls youth sports. lol. "Body language."

Perhaps the thread title and my main point are getting conflated. I’m not saying there’s an internal team conflict. I’d have no way of knowing that. In that sense you are right with your astrology comments.

Im saying throughout the entire season certain players on this team displayed bad body language and seeming lack of enthusiasm. I saw similar bad body language when things started breaking wrong during the last five minutes of the Houston game.