Slowing Down Was A Great Strategy

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
0
It's not that they slowed it down. It's that they didn't force action. The offense should have attacked through RHJ and Caleb. Force Jarreu (injured) Chaney and Gorham (4fouls) to make a decision and play d.

Thought it was fine except for that brutal possession where Caleb jacked up the three. What they needed to do was put the goddam ball in the goddam basket.
 
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bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,125
16,427
113
I am not a big Montez Mathis fan however, Mathis had 10 in the first half and generally played well including hitting from outside. No he has been mistake prone in many games but seemed like an asset in this one. Not sure he was utilized enough in the 2nd half given what he provided in the 2nd half, obviously because RU built the lead in other ways, Tez wasnt an option then but perhaps he needed more time in the last 6 minutes, I think he came in when Caleb fouled out.

Its hard to criticize though given Mathis has not been the most trustworthy
I was wondering why no Paul at the end but guess pike wanted Caleb for his defense.
 

kupuna133

All-American
Jul 13, 2015
6,867
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Thought it was fine except for that brutal possession where Caleb jacked up the three. What they needed to do was put the goddam ball in the goddam basket.
The offense has limited movement on a good day. Had zero movement in the last 4 minutes. This had 2 effects on the game. It allowed Houston to rest on D vs. exerting energy. The other effect was that the limited motion was horizontal or moving away from the basket.

In order for a 4 out 1 in offense to work you have to attack the defense and force action and a double team. Banging the ball into the ground 40 feet from the basket does zero.
 

patk89

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
6,333
2,456
78
Houston is a strong defensive team. Going hard to the basket can result in the ball being stripped. We turned it over several times down the stretch as it was. Going into Myles is also a problem as we didn't want him on the line (he hit some FTS in this game, but not what we wanted to close things out).
 

Pils86

All-Conference
Sep 21, 2008
1,786
1,343
113
Terrible to slow down, keep doing what got you up by 10. Slowing down meant we were harried when we finally tried to score, and didn't.

Zebras didn't help us. We went up 58-49 with at 4:55, then Johnson foul at 4:33, foul on Harper at 1:53, foul on McConnel 1:04, foul on Baker at :24. No fouls on aggressive D Houston during this time. Geo's one at :24 was weak, huge call by the ref, but why he even gave the refs a chance is mind boggling.
 
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Upstream

Heisman
Jul 31, 2001
35,285
10,254
113
Slowing down didn’t get us the 8 point lead. Changing the way you play can change the momentum...especially when it results in desperation heaves at the shot clock. There is a time to take the air out and we always do it way too early.
Actually, slow possessions did get us the lead, and as I noted above, it is not a change from the way we play, but very much the way we play.

In the period we built the lead, about half our points were from medium-length possessions and half from long possessions.

Though what really helped us build the lead was our defense. We held Houston to 7 points over a 7:36 stretch. During that period, they took poor shots early in their possession, and also turned the ball over 5 times.
 

MCKnight

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2012
2,267
1,883
113
Could have gotten a foul call on the Harper offensive rebound put back attempt, didn’t get much help from refs. But the Myles blow dunk and blown put back were the two that hurt us most. Make one of those and the outcome is likely different
 
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kapyoche

All-Conference
Sep 11, 2010
5,151
1,509
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Rutgers was relevant so I am happy. But how easily things could have been much more.

Rutgers played not to lose at the end. And they lost.
The team looked stiff and making a lot of mental mistakes.
Coach should have told the players to go and have fun and take out any player who was not loose.

Why Mulcahy does not take charge during crunch time? He should have had the ball at the end not Geo.
He simply disappears. when you need him to make smart decisions.
 
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
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Slowing down made a ton of sense bc our offense is just unreliable. As many have said, one rebound or dunk and we win and with a dunk I think we would have won easily.
Slowing down was a good strategy. We were for the most part using the entire shot clock running our regular offense. What I hated was going to the 1/4. Offense became stagnant with no movement.
 
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fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
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Rutgers was relevant so I am happy. But how easily things could have been much more.

Rutgers played not to lose at the end. And they lost.
The team looked stiff and making a lot of mental mistakes.
Coach should have told the players to go and have fun and take out any player who was not loose.

Why Mulcahy does not take charge during crunch time? He should have had the ball at the end not Geo.
He simply disappears. when you need him to make smart decisions.

Ban
 

brookdale-soda

All-Conference
Oct 4, 2010
3,790
2,061
113
I'd prefer if we ran a play for Geo rather than 100 pct ISO. We basically stopped all motion, allowed the defense to get in position and prepare for a rebound. I'm fine with Geo taking the shot. It doesn't need to be so obvious.
 

mikeyoc

All-Conference
Apr 19, 2005
1,250
1,238
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Why cant people accept the fact that the strategy made sense but the execution just failed. This happens all the time in business and it happened on the court yesterday. I even see that in conversation at my company TODAY. It happens and all you can do is learn from it, adjust, and improve.
Absolutely. We had an injured center (you try running the court on a
bad ankle) so Pike was trying to shorten the game and not
get in a track meet with Houston. We were employing that
strategy for most of the game. It almost worked
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
Why cant people accept the fact that the strategy made sense but the execution just failed. This happens all the time in business and it happened on the court yesterday. I even see that in conversation at my company TODAY. It happens and all you can do is learn from it, adjust, and improve.
Agree.

In what is an inescapably ironic post...

A kind of depressing reality of American culture these days is that so many people seem to have a strong desire, or need, to find something to complain about along with someone to blame and criticize. It has permeated politics for a long time, and that’s probably where the attitude comes from. But it’s apparently seeped into nearly every aspect of life now.

The problem, as I see it, is that everyone will read this and think “yeah people have become like that” while only thinking of others who do it, not realizing they, themselves, do it too.

Ah well. Like I said, this post was inescapably ironic. 😀
 

RU-AGK

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2001
5,548
1,994
0
I am not a big Montez Mathis fan however, Mathis had 10 in the first half and generally played well including hitting from outside. No he has been mistake prone in many games but seemed like an asset in this one. Not sure he was utilized enough in the 2nd half given what he provided in the 2nd half, obviously because RU built the lead in other ways, Tez wasnt an option then but perhaps he needed more time in the last 6 minutes, I think he came in when Caleb fouled out.

Its hard to criticize though given Mathis has not been the most trustworthy

For some reason he gets mugged repeatedly when he drives the lane and almost never gets fouled. I mean, he is absolutely abused and rarely gets a call.
 

G- RUnit

All-American
Sep 13, 2004
14,376
7,977
113
Terrible to slow down, keep doing what got you up by 10. Slowing down meant we were harried when we finally tried to score, and didn't.

Zebras didn't help us. We went up 58-49 with at 4:55, then Johnson foul at 4:33, foul on Harper at 1:53, foul on McConnel 1:04, foul on Baker at :24. No fouls on aggressive D Houston during this time. Geo's one at :24 was weak, huge call by the ref, but why he even gave the refs a chance is mind boggling.

We didn’t shoot a foul shot in 2nd half and blaming slow down. SMH.
 

wheezer

Heisman
Jun 3, 2001
169,873
25,557
113
The biggest errors at the end were the two unforced turnovers, Young and then Baker

There is no excuse for just losing the ball without it being swiped away

Missed dunk, sure, but a bit more understandable that those type of things happen in the course of a gsme

But we just had to maintain possession and at least attempt to score at the end and we coughed it up
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
For some reason he gets mugged repeatedly when he drives the lane and almost never gets fouled. I mean, he is absolutely abused and rarely gets a call.
When he drives to the basket, he is often a bit out of control. Refs are much less likely to call fouls due to contact when the offensive player is perceived to be out of control. I guess the thinking is that it’s hard to determine who initiated the contact in those situations, in real-time, and so a no call is warranted.

When we see those things in slow motion replay, it all looks so much more obvious who did what. But refs obviously don’t normally have the benefit of slow motion replay.

He needs to adjust his drives so that he’s under control and he’ll start getting foul calls when it’s clear enough, in real time, that the defender initiated the contact.
 
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S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
13,946
26,573
113
Actually, slow possessions did get us the lead, and as I noted above, it is not a change from the way we play, but very much the way we play.

In the period we built the lead, about half our points were from medium-length possessions and half from long possessions.

Though what really helped us build the lead was our defense. We held Houston to 7 points over a 7:36 stretch. During that period, they took poor shots early in their possession, and also turned the ball over 5 times.

Exactly this - and this has been how we’ve been successful for most of the year.

We play “fast” or with “tempo” when our defense is on, we’re forcing turnovers and out rebounding the opponent. The transition, speed and tempo all starts with defense and rebounding...NOT our offense.

Looking back I have no issue with slowing the game down the last couple of possessions. We had a few good looks and misses, an awful shot selection and a couple turnovers. Combine that with committing fouls, getting out rebounded and the Johnson out of bounds play and you couldn’t have scripted a worst last few minutes.

If we hit just one of those shots or got one extra rebound theres a good chance we’re in the sweet 16.
 

carmenst

Senior
Sep 10, 2003
809
785
0
Not following. We were up 10 with five minutes left without having shot a FT in the second half.

I think the point is that we could have had a larger lead with 5 minutes to play if we shot some FTs in the 2nd half.
 

rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
8,853
5,773
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Slowing down didn’t get us the 8 point lead. Changing the way you play can change the momentum...especially when it results in desperation heaves at the shot clock. There is a time to take the air out and we always do it way too early.
Correct.
 

rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
8,853
5,773
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Slowing the game down killed our momentum. You can't have 4 guys standing around while 1 guy holds the ball for 20+ seconds on more than one occasion & then magically turn on a switch & play fast, quick, aggressive defense or offense. Doesn't work that way.
 

Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
6,466
0
We only slowed down at the very end and on those two possessions Geo had a contested layup and Myles missed a bunny on the follow. The next one was young’s bad to. We had great opportunities and yes we got bumped multiple times but no whistle.
We were bumping too and I felt the calls were even until the last 4-5 minutes where they were completely one way. If we win I probably don’t say anything about this lol
 
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Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
6,466
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Slowing the game down killed our momentum. You can't have 4 guys standing around while 1 guy holds the ball for 20+ seconds on more than one occasion & then magically turn on a switch & play fast, quick, aggressive defense or offense. Doesn't work that way.
Do you know what ISO means in hoops? We got 2 layups and a putback by Myles against a guard In 3 isolations. How many layups did we get running our normal Offense? Not many because Houston plays great and aggressive defense. ISO was the right call 2 minutes left with the lead. You can repeat this same comment another 1000 times but most of us disagree with you or should disagree with you.

Our momentum was stopped long before we started running iso. We were up 8 and started iso when we were up by 2. They were physical and clogged the lane well all game. Running iso gave us a one on one chance. Geo twice and then JY. Good decision.

Akso we have to credit Houston for getting out on our 3’s all game. We had very few open looks but shot well anyway. Houston players seemed to be everywhere and we played them tough. Really tough. Job well done
 

bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,125
16,427
113
We were bumping too and I felt the calls were even until the last 4-5 minutes where they were completely one way. If we win I probably don’t say anything about this lol
I agree. I didn’t really have an issue with their calls but it seemed one way. All of a sudden there were a lot of whistles at our end and a couple of bailouts. We still only had to make one damn play though!!
 
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Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
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I agree. I didn’t really have an issue with their calls but it seemed one way. All of a sudden there were a lot of whistles at our end and a couple of bailouts. We still only had to make one damn play though!!
100% agree all around. None of the calls or non calls were egregious but they all went one way down the stretch. The 6’2” guard draped all over Myles on his putback compared to Geo getting a small piece of the guy who gave them the lead is one of the examples I would point to since they were back to back. Also earlier in the half JY gets hammered on a drive and Girrault gets a call when he’s out of control with what looked like little or no contact and they were back to back.

We did make a lot of great plays to get the nice lead and even to keep it between 7-10 for around 5 minutes. We just needed one more play. We had our chances.
 

rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
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Do you know what ISO means in hoops? We got 2 layups and a putback by Myles against a guard In 3 isolations. How many layups did we get running our normal Offense? Not many because Houston plays great and aggressive defense. ISO was the right call 2 minutes left with the lead. You can repeat this same comment another 1000 times but most of us disagree with you or should disagree with you.

Our momentum was stopped long before we started running iso. We were up 8 and started iso when we were up by 2. They were physical and clogged the lane well all game. Running iso gave us a one on one chance. Geo twice and then JY. Good decision.

Akso we have to credit Houston for getting out on our 3’s all game. We had very few open looks but shot well anyway. Houston players seemed to be everywhere and we played them tough. Really tough. Job well done
That's your opinion. Slowing the game down with 2+ minutes cost us the game. Dopey *** ball.
 

Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
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That's your opinion. Slowing the game down with 2+ minutes cost us the game. Dopey *** ball.
It’s not my opinion. It’s how the game is played. Pike hasnt built 2 tournament teams from the dirt by being dopey assed. If it was me coaching you could say that and I couldnt argue. This guy has been successful so I’ll back him very day.

I can’t think of a coach who would speed up a game against a team that outrebounds them and was shooting poorly like them that’s like the guy at the carnival giving you free throws at the pins to win a prize. It just doesn’t happen. “Here you’re missing a lot of shots and getting a lot of rebounds why don’t we shoot it quickly and give you more chances?” Lol
 
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fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
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OK, I"m going to shock everybody. IMHO, there was *not* a deliberate slowdown in final minutes. Instead, what happened is that we stood around as we did all too often in the regular season and we stood around because Houston tightened its defense, so we ended up running the shot clock down. In other words, give them credit rather than trying to blame it on Pikiell's strategy.

I’m not going to watch again to confirm my memory, but I’m very confident there was deliberate slowdown. It’s pretty clear when they just stand out near half court waiting for the clock to hit 15 seconds.
 

Retired711

Heisman
Nov 20, 2001
19,971
10,151
58
I’m not going to watch again to confirm my memory, but I’m very confident there was deliberate slowdown. It’s pretty clear when they just stand out near half court waiting for the clock to hit 15 seconds.

OK, I'll yield to your memory on this.
 

rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
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5,773
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It’s not my opinion. It’s how the game is played. Pike hasnt built 2 tournament teams from the dirt by being dopey assed. If it was me coaching you could say that and I couldnt argue. This guy has been successful so I’ll back him very day.

I can’t think of a coach who would speed up a game against a team that outrebounds them and was shooting poorly like them that’s like the guy at the carnival giving you free throws at the pins to win a prize. It just doesn’t happen. “Here you’re missing a lot of shots and getting a lot of rebounds why don’t we shoot it quickly and give you more chances?” Lol
I didn't say Pike is dopey assed. Big supporter of him & what he has done. Said going to ISO slow down was dopey *** ball especially so early. Excellent coaches make a mistakes on occasions. Don't misrepresent what I said. Guess we will disagree on this.
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,558
12,868
78
The obvious foul not called when CM stole the ball and fell out of bounds was a huge no call too that gets overshadowed by us having a lead. Possession went back to Houston there and they scored the and 1. It was a terrible missed call and could’ve even been an intentional as the defender didn’t go for the ball.