JY better off the bench?

[BillyC80]

The start of any game is when you need to be under control offensively, and feel out what your opponent is trying to do defensively.

Starting JY is like giving an 18-year old the key to the liquor cabinet. He gets drunk on the moment and his body moves faster than his head. I prefer Geo starting at point.

To me, Jacob embodies the essence of a great 6th man. He gives you that jolt of energy, that spark you need to ignite the team after the initial 4-minute run establishes a pattern of play.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Whether you are right or not the answer has to be no. He has clearly earned the starting role based on the effort and energy he brings.

a bad signal would be set taking his starting job away.

 

[BillyC80]

Whether you are right or not the answer has to be no. He has clearly earned the starting role based on the effort and energy he brings.

a bad signal would be set taking his starting job away.

The question is whether he is better for us as a 6th man. Seems you’re saying he “earned” a starting role by being a great 6th man first.

So for me it’s not about rewarding him with a starting role. It’s about using his talents most effectively.

 

[RUKiid]

No way. He is a starter.

 

[S_Janowski]

After last night I would have Young coming off the bench, but still getting 32-35 mins per game.

Young is vital to our success but if his leash is too long things can get out of control and go awry.

 

[sunsetregret]

The problem with JY (and it's not his problem) is that he thrives in a completely different style of offense than the coach wants to run. The coach wants to stand around at the top of the key and dribble, dribble, dribble then shoot a three pointer. JY thrives in racing up and down the court and going right to the basket. I'd argue he's actually pretty bad in the half court offense. If Pike would put JY, Mathis, and Cliff in the game at the same time for 5 minutes each half (rest Harper and Myles) and just let them run up and down the court, we'd have mini-spurts of instant offense. It would also result in a handful of open 3s for Geo every game.

This is not some mystery. It's exactly what we were doing at the end of last season (when JY and Mathis were instant offense).

 

[Knights 1212]

Geo and Jacob both started the game and I think both deserved to start. Jacob might have tried a little too hard at the start but he is only human. He has done so many positive things for RU over his career. I just hope that by some chance Geo, Jacob and Myles all return next season. We need to keep the momentum moving forward. GO RU.

 

[BillyC80]

After last night I would have Young coming off the bench, but still getting 32-35 mins per game.

Young is vital to our success but if his leash is too long things can get out of control and go awry.

^This. Have him come off the bench but give him starter’s minutes. Totally agree.

 

[zappaa]

I didn’t see one Geo/JY iso yesterday where we SLOW down, get all 4 of our other players below the foul line and play the take it to the hoop, or one pass and shoot.
We did if for the last 10 minutes of Indiana

 

[RU 286]

I would like to see Geo be less deferential at the start of games. He seems to want to get others going early to the detriment of his game. Last night in the first couple of possessions he twice got to his spot for his pull up in the lane and passed it off. By the time he asserts himself we are in a hole and desperate.

 

[Shell21]

I didn’t see one Geo/JY iso yesterday where we SLOW down, get all 4 of our other players below the foul line and play the take it to the hoop, or one pass and shoot.
We did if for the last 10 minutes of Indiana

They were icing all of our ball screens last night and playing different coverage than Indiana. We didn’t really seem to adjust well to it

 

[REDRICH65]

With Godzilla, (I mean Cockburn) guarding the hoop our only hope to win was shooting 50% on 3s. Check the rebounding and second chance stats

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

He’s definitely better off the bench. For all the good he provides, he doesn’t value the ball enough.

 

[JMORC2003]

I like JY off the bench because of the shot of energy he provides. That seems to get lost as a starter. Geo wasn't as impactful yesterday. I get that JY has earned the "start" but beyond the sentimentality of it all, I like the old rotation better. Plus he can still get minutes

 

[rudad02]

Just that the out of control Jacob turned up yesterday. Never know when. Could be as a starter or off the bench.

 

[RUBlackout]

We just need to run a more fast paced offense...stop trying to slow it down. We actually thrive in a fast paced setting. When we slow down we overthink, over pass, and don’t take open shots.
If we start to run faster on offense and do that in conjunction with our transition offense off of rebounds this team will excel. Go back and watch games from December and you will see what I’m talking about.
Combine that with our defense and watch the difference we would have

 

[RUJMM78]

Rutgers has a big problem scoring in the first five minutes of games.Young has been the most consistent double digit scorer which mean he must be on the court for more than 30 minutes.Rutgers simply can't match baskets against opponents that have 3 point shooters and a inside scoring threat.

 

[RUsojo]

We played the 3rd best team in the country last night. The five games in January before Young was benched we played four tournament teams in a row, losing to Iowa (4th best team in the country by 2), MSU blowout (bad loss for us), Ohio St (7th best team in the country), Wisconsin (11th best team in the country), Penn St (31st best team in the country).

That five game stretch in January Young went 33 of 68 shooting 48% from the floor. Young is not the problem....

 

[S_Janowski]

We just need to run a more fast paced offense...stop trying to slow it down. We actually thrive in a fast paced setting. When we slow down we overthink, over pass, and don’t take open shots.
If we start to run faster on offense and do that in conjunction with our transition offense off of rebounds this team will excel. Go back and watch games from December and you will see what I’m talking about.
Combine that with our defense and watch the difference we would have

Our fast past offense almost always usually derives from out rebounding the opponent, playing great defense and forcing turnovers.

We need all of this things to happen first before we can think about playing with a high tempo/transition offense.

We need to excel in our strengths first. If we don’t play good defense or rebound we don’t have a good chance of winning.

 

[bac2therac]

we had this discussion before...remember after the 5 game losing streak after the slow starts and turnovers, we pulled JY and then we started winning again, then Pike went back to JY and the same mistakes are happening at the start of games.

everyone just be consistent in what you want. JY brings the good and bad, damn people were ready to anoint him the end all be all after the Minnesota win. Yes he brings stuff that can win us games, whether thats at the start of games is another issue and I have seen enough evidence to come to my conclusion that his game does not translate in the first 5 minutes

 

[bac2therac]

We just need to run a more fast paced offense...stop trying to slow it down. We actually thrive in a fast paced setting. When we slow down we overthink, over pass, and don’t take open shots.
If we start to run faster on offense and do that in conjunction with our transition offense off of rebounds this team will excel. Go back and watch games from December and you will see what I’m talking about.
Combine that with our defense and watch the difference we would have

the fast paced offense with JY yesterday resulted in turnovers at the start as he was wildly out of control

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

Yes. During their 4 game winning streak, Caleb started in his place. His length at the 2 bothered the opponent’s best guard. Then about a third of the way into the half, JY would come in and punish them with his speed. That usually led to an RU run and a timeout by their opponent.

It was like wearing down a football team’s defense with a big power back, then hitting them with the speed back that would break off a 20 yard run.

It’s not about who’s “earned” the right to start. It’s about what lineup combinations give RU the best chance to win.

 

[bac2therac]

Yes. During their 4 game winning streak, Caleb started in his place. His length at the 2 bothered the opponent’s best guard. Then about a third of the way into the half, JY would come in and punish them with his speed. That usually led to an RU run and a timeout by their opponent.

It was like wearing down a football team’s defense with a big power back, then hitting them with the speed back that would break off a 20 yard run.

It’s not about who’s “earned” the right to start. It’s about what lineup combinations give RU the best chance to win.

this...every game is different and if Pike is stuck is sub patterns because he has to rather than feel for the game, its going to hurt our chances. With our lack of offensive prowess we cannot afford to have bad lineup combos on the court. If guys have to play 35 plus minutes so be it...that includes Myles.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Just that the out of control Jacob turned up yesterday. Never know when. Could be as a starter or off the bench.

Was he out of control or were we playing two of the best guards in the country? I also thought the refs were a little one sided last night. Don’t get me wrong, the better team won but all of the early calls went to Illinois. JY gets a steal and it’s a foul. The Illinois guards reached in on him early and often and all of those non calls could have been fouls. Call it once and they stop reaching and then JY is not out of control.

I also the Cockburn got away with being very physical last night. As in basically moving players out of his way to get a rebound and put back dunk. He’s a star and they gave him the same treatment they have been giving Garza the past two seasons: I get it but it sucks

 

[RUsojo]

Was he out of control or were we playing two of the best guards in the country? I also thought the refs were a little one sided last night. Don’t get me wrong, the better team won but all of the early calls went to Illinois. JY gets a steal and it’s a foul. The Illinois guards reached in on him early and often and all of those non calls could have been fouls. Call it once and they stop reaching and then JY is not out of control.

I also the Cockburn got away with being very physical last night. As in basically moving players out of his way to get a rebound and put back dunk. He’s a star and they gave him the same treatment they have been giving Garza the past two seasons: I get it but it sucks

No one has been in JYs corner like I have for over two years and even I will agree JY had a few silly turn overs early in the game.

BUT either way, we were only down 9 to 11 after a JY and 1 with 14:26 left in 1H after those turn overs. So it was immaterial really. But I get this board likes to overharp on it.

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

Was he out of control or were we playing two of the best guards in the country? I also thought the refs were a little one sided last night. Don’t get me wrong, the better team won but all of the early calls went to Illinois. JY gets a steal and it’s a foul. The Illinois guards reached in on him early and often and all of those non calls could have been fouls. Call it once and they stop reaching and then JY is not out of control.

I also the Cockburn got away with being very physical last night. As in basically moving players out of his way to get a rebound and put back dunk. He’s a star and they gave him the same treatment they have been giving Garza the past two seasons: I get it but it sucks

This is a conversation about who should be on the floor at tip-off. He lost the ball twice and RU was down 8-0. You can’t have that type of start this time of year. He’s much better coming in later in the half. No one’s saying his minutes should be decreased.

 

[zappaa]

We just need to run a more fast paced offense...stop trying to slow it down. We actually thrive in a fast paced setting. When we slow down we overthink, over pass, and don’t take open shots.
If we start to run faster on offense and do that in conjunction with our transition offense off of rebounds this team will excel. Go back and watch games from December and you will see what I’m talking about.
Combine that with our defense and watch the difference we would have

If it’s done correctly we don’t over pass, it’s a one pass offense.

 

[RU848789]

JY should start and play at least 35 minutes. He's our best player, overall, i.e., offensively and defensively.

 

[rudad02]

We just need to run a more fast paced offense...stop trying to slow it down. We actually thrive in a fast paced setting. When we slow down we overthink, over pass, and don’t take open shots.
If we start to run faster on offense and do that in conjunction with our transition offense off of rebounds this team will excel. Go back and watch games from December and you will see what I’m talking about.
Combine that with our defense and watch the difference we would have

Yes.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The question is whether he is better for us as a 6th man. Seems you’re saying he “earned” a starting role by being a great 6th man first.

So for me it’s not about rewarding him with a starting role. It’s about using his talents most effectively.

He has earned a starting role by digging in defensively and guard people others can and quite honestly playing with an effort others aren’t willing to play with.

it would send a terrible message that those who aren’t working as hard defensively have a spot and Jacob doesn’t.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If it’s done correctly we don’t over pass, it’s a one pass offense.

Does it work against good defensive team

 

[BigEastPhil]

Jacob has to start and you will see a runaway train with the ball in our first game. Hopefully train stays on the track.

 

[brucelaw8]

we had this discussion before...remember after the 5 game losing streak after the slow starts and turnovers, we pulled JY and then we started winning again, then Pike went back to JY and the same mistakes are happening at the start of games.

everyone just be consistent in what you want. JY brings the good and bad, damn people were ready to anoint him the end all be all after the Minnesota win. Yes he brings stuff that can win us games, whether thats at the start of games is another issue and I have seen enough evidence to come to my conclusion that his game does not translate in the first 5 minutes

This has been your mantra for many weeks.All in all jacob has been our best player for the past 10 games.He is going to remain the starter as he should.Scripting our offensive sets at the beginning of games might help to offset nerves.Illinois is one of two favorites to win it all.Time to accept reality and accept what will happen going forward.His potential replacements Caleb and Mathis have not played well for several games.Excited to see how JY brings it next week.If Geo,Myles,& Ron match his intensity we will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Jacob has to start and you will see a runaway train with the ball in our first game. Hopefully train stays on the track.

He is a runaway train sometimes, but he has the best command of the jump stop of any of our guys that penetrate in to the paint.

 

[BillyC80]

He has earned a starting role by digging in defensively and guard people others can and quite honestly playing with an effort others aren’t willing to play with.

it would send a terrible message that those who aren’t working as hard defensively have a spot and Jacob doesn’t.

So then Pike didn’t start Myles in the first 6 games before Cliff got hurt because he wanted to send a message that Myles wasn’t working hard enough on defense? I don’t buy it.

He did it because he wanted to keep Myles from picking up early fouls. Similarly, when JY turns the ball over early, getting us off to a slow start, then Pike will have to consider bringing him off the bench in the next game.

Pike has said many times it’s not as important who starts. I love JY’s intensity and he has earned the right to play 30+ minutes per game. But if Pike decides to bring him off the bench in the first tournament game, I’ll agree with the move.

 

[RU at the shore]

Lots of good points both ways. I see it as in the teams best interest to bring JY off the bench for a jolt in each half that no other player is (currently) capable of providing.

 

[Yeah Baby]

This is a conversation about who should be on the floor at tip-off. He lost the ball twice and RU was down 8-0. You can’t have that type of start this time of year. He’s much better coming in later in the half. No one’s saying his minutes should be decreased.

Yes I understand what we are discussing but usually early in games when a guard reaches on like that you get a foul call and they have to stop teaching in. It’s a valid point.

I can see both sides of the argument on who starts. We changed these up after the first losing streak and changed it up again recently because we were stagnant on Offense. JY just came off one of the best games of any player in a long time and some of you think Pike should have started someone else? I’m not buying it.

We could also have argued to start Mathis so we could get back on D. Illinois was getting their points by beating us up and down the floor. That team is probably the best team in the country right now based on the last 5-7 games. They’re all playing well.