Jeff Van Gundy is on with Chris Russo and they started the conversation talking about Bob Wenzel. Russo is very friendly with Wenzel who is on often. He asked Van Gundy about him and JVG could not say enough good things about his former boss. He described Wenzel's journeyman like career saying as good as he was he never got the top flight job. At Rutgers he talked about the '89 team which he described as a mish mosh of players not really suited together. He said one of Wenzel's strength was coaching to the talent he had. In '89 he described it as a masterful job getting the mismatched talent to buy in. One thing that surprised me was that he said Wenzel was an excellent offensive coach. Van Gundy said that Wenzel was incredibly important to his career. It was a real Bob Wenzel lovefest.
Van Gundy on Wenzel
- Thread starter BigLou
- Start date
I remember Bob Wenzel and John McFadden as the starting guards at RU playing for Bill Foster, who also coached at Utah and Duke.
He’s a true Rutgersman.
He’s a true Rutgersman.
I guess Jeff stopped paying attention once Wenzel started running the program into the ground after the ‘91 tournament team.
I was at RU in the 90s when Wenzel was here and then first 2 years of Bannon.
IMO, Wenzel was an outstanding bench coach. Got a lot of the team.
The problem was Wenzel the recruiter failed Wenzel the coach. He was a lousy recruiter, and/or judge of talent. We know the stories of handing out 'ships site unseen. It was classic he did well with prior coach's players first few years and then went south with his own, and then add in moving into much tougher Big East in '95.
IMO, Wenzel was an outstanding bench coach. Got a lot of the team.
The problem was Wenzel the recruiter failed Wenzel the coach. He was a lousy recruiter, and/or judge of talent. We know the stories of handing out 'ships site unseen. It was classic he did well with prior coach's players first few years and then went south with his own, and then add in moving into much tougher Big East in '95.
Although he did convince Keith Hughes to leave Syracuse. And
without Keith, no tourney in '91
I don’t remember specifics about Wenzel’s recruiting but talking to him recently about recruiting the list is extraordinarily long of kids that wanted to come to RU but couldn’t get past the inflated admission standards Rutgers was holding athletes to at the time.
I guess there is two sides to every story.
....and at Northwestern. It was as the NW coach that Foster returned to the Banks early in Bobby's first season - 1988-89. I remember him taking the mic and telling RU fans - there weren't even 4000 in the RAC that night after 3 years of Littlepage - to support Bobby and the team. I thought that was a pretty cool thing to do by the opponent's coach. By late February, the RAC was packed with 9000 fans for a huge win over Temple. And Bobby took RU on to the A-10 title and an NCAA bid.
That team, like last year's team, really got the fans going as we've seldom seen on the Banks.
Dabbs was definitely better than anyone we had at center, although Chuck weiler played that first game in 1990 and we beat a ranked Missouri. However as I’ve said repeatedly Dabbs is on my list forever because of his Ike Austin comments
Last edited:
Who can forget the weave?
I also remember Bob making the rounds to the dorms and apartments trying to drum up student excitement. I remember him telling our group session about Lumpkin (or so I recall). He said he was a great shooter but couldn't guard that television in our lobby.
I also remember Bob making the rounds to the dorms and apartments trying to drum up student excitement. I remember him telling our group session about Lumpkin (or so I recall). He said he was a great shooter but couldn't guard that television in our lobby.
Last edited:
Wenzel’s last year or year before being fired, he gave a scholarship to a kid by the name of Pete Chilcote (sp?) point guard and that dude had no business playing division one basketball In the A10 or Big East.
You know a scholarship basketball player is questionable when they are getting schooled at the campus recreation center by non-scholarship students.
GO RU
You know a scholarship basketball player is questionable when they are getting schooled at the campus recreation center by non-scholarship students.
GO RU
If only there was instant replay review back then for that out of bounds play in front of the RU bench.
IMO the what-could-have-been was Bannon--he had the right mix of coaching and recruiting, and just self-destructed. To see Dahntay Jones, Todd Billet, others such as Jeff Greer, Kent, Shields, Salvi here...
have to give Wenzel some credit for Hodgson transfer, Geoff Billet, Santiago, diamond in rough Eric Clark...not enough though.
have to give Wenzel some credit for Hodgson transfer, Geoff Billet, Santiago, diamond in rough Eric Clark...not enough though.
I think you mean Pete Marcotte. There were a lot of head scratchers on Bob's later rosters.
My personal fave was the "big man" recruit from the Fashion Institute of Technology. There was just something about recruiting a player from that school. Anyways, I vaguely recall him eventually being serviceable at one point.
Wenzel only recruited four serviceable centers. The lam man (who flunked out), Weiler (skinny as a rail with no offensive game), Dabbs, and Eric Clark (played tough but was undersized and underweight).
Lam Man? I'm drawing a blank here...
One of the regularly great threads on these boards is recalling our lunch pail type players from the past. Tons of former big men on that list. Kent, Clark and Weiler are a few we had that made the best out of their God given talents and just got by on heart.
Was Andre Lameroux a Wenzel or Bannon recruit.
Jamal St. James... and his alter ego, Ramaj St. James....
Jamal St. James... and his alter ego, Ramaj St. James....
Just Googled Lameroux and yes, Wenzel recruit but no, not the FIT grad. Turns out Lou was right, it was Joe Jarldane from FIT.
Bob was a pretty good bench coach and player developer ...he just didn’t recruit
You need to remember for the first 6 years of his tenure (which the first four has 2 NCAA and 2 NIT bids) it was the Atlantic 10 conference ...and the A-10 was not a power conference ...it was clearly a good major conference...but clearly behind the ACC, the big East, big 10, big 8/12, pac 10, SEC....in the 8-10 range of conference and recruiting..
Given that ...bob did well with transfers ...and some JUCO... but we didn’t get too many kids above the top 250 that were difference makers ...
And when the big east called...it just didn’t give the recruiting bump that it needed to...
You need to remember for the first 6 years of his tenure (which the first four has 2 NCAA and 2 NIT bids) it was the Atlantic 10 conference ...and the A-10 was not a power conference ...it was clearly a good major conference...but clearly behind the ACC, the big East, big 10, big 8/12, pac 10, SEC....in the 8-10 range of conference and recruiting..
Given that ...bob did well with transfers ...and some JUCO... but we didn’t get too many kids above the top 250 that were difference makers ...
And when the big east called...it just didn’t give the recruiting bump that it needed to...
Don't pick on Pete Marcotte -- I don't know where you got the idea he was being "schooled" in the rec center -- I can assure you he was not. He was not what we wanted, but he was good enough to finish second on the team in minutes played and 3p% and have the best assist/turnover ratio on the team his first year here. That A/T ratio was not that far off from what Baker and Mulcahy are doing today. Even at that size and playing the point, his rebounds per minute were comparable to the other guards on the team. When he was moved aside his second and last year for Karner and Santiago the team only improved by a game in the A-10, despite the rest of the cast being pretty much the same. He did not look the part at 5' 7" and maybe 150 lb., but he was quick and actually could come very close to dunking. I can also tell you for sure that he had the respect of his team mates, some of whom had previously played with and against him in the Jersey Shore league. No one is saying he was plan A at any time, it was the Santiago injury that resulted in him being the starter, but don't say he was rec league level -- that is just not true.
Last edited:
Wenzel's health scare occurred when he was at Jacksonville.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1985-12-11-0340690142-story.html
Joe "the Chief" Jarldane did not do anything here -- but the program he come from, FIT, WAS actually pretty solid at that time -- they were NJCAA Div. I then, but Div. III now.
Marcotte's claim to fame: he hit a half-court shot, which was featured as the Play of the Day on CNN.
For those too young to remember, CNN had a nightly show (Sports Tonight) which competed against ESPN's SportsCenter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Tonight_(American_TV_program)
No, it was while he was at Jacksonville. I believe he had to step down there for health reasons and later joined the Nets as an assistant before coming to RU.
Funny story I heard him tell on Russo's show a few months ago. Bob had been an assistant at South Carolina under Bill Foster and he was recruiting Michael Jordan. Later while with the Nets they were playing the Bulls. The Nets had a bunch of injuries and had a couple of guys on 10 day contracts filling in. Jordan was lighting these guys up and as he ran past the Nets bench he looked at Wenzel and said "Hey Bob, you have to get someone better than that to guard me".
Wenzel may have been enthusiastic, and a good bench coach, but he was a terrible recruiter for a lot of his tenure. Who can forget these luminaries?
Johnny Blake
Jamar Holcomb (Ramaj St.James).
Rich Ashmede
Darko Matajasevic
Johnny McCrimmon
Andre Lamoreux
There are others. Wenzel never really topped the quality transfer haul his first few seasons. There was a bump when RU joined the BE; I believe that he got Geoff Billet, Rob Hodgson, and Earl Johnson. After the run of NCAA and NIT appearances in the first four years, his RU tenure degenerated into a succession of losing seasons.
Johnny Blake
Jamar Holcomb (Ramaj St.James).
Rich Ashmede
Darko Matajasevic
Johnny McCrimmon
Andre Lamoreux
There are others. Wenzel never really topped the quality transfer haul his first few seasons. There was a bump when RU joined the BE; I believe that he got Geoff Billet, Rob Hodgson, and Earl Johnson. After the run of NCAA and NIT appearances in the first four years, his RU tenure degenerated into a succession of losing seasons.
Last edited:
You're talking about Joe Jarldane. He literally never checked into a game as far as I can remember so you might be thinking of Andre Lamoureaux (24 pts against St. Joe's before flunking out). Jarldane had a really bad mullet situation going. But more importantly, I scored his scarlet #52 jersey on eBay last year!! I think I originally saw it included in the Tricky Tray portion of the Court Club Auction a few years ago.
I'm not going to defend Wenzel's recruiting but the point about academics being a problem for the program in the '90s is 100% correct. The number of players that flunked out (some before every playing a minute) was astronomical. The term "academically separated from the University" is seared into my brain. Some of the academic casualties, like Charles Jones, who later led the country in scoring at LIU, had legit talent. The academic support infrastructure must've been a joke then. You NEVER see anyone flunking out (as far as we know) anymore.
This thread is some trip down memory (good and bad) of the Wenzel years. Very enjoyable. With regard to Tim Thomas, wasn't he a package deal with his HS HC Jimmy Salmon?
I think it was last season at the RAC when I was there for a game that I was in the mens room about 10 minutes before tip off and who saunters in to relieve himself but BW. He was doing the color commentary. Big smile on his face for anyone who made eye contact. Definitely seems like a nice guy.
I think it was last season at the RAC when I was there for a game that I was in the mens room about 10 minutes before tip off and who saunters in to relieve himself but BW. He was doing the color commentary. Big smile on his face for anyone who made eye contact. Definitely seems like a nice guy.
Ok. I believe you are being sarcastic but if not this is a reason why RU athletic programs overall were so putrid during my time and for the decades forward.
Marcotte who I believe transferred from recruiting hotbed of Brookdale Community College was actually roommates with a guy I knew on campus. Wenzel was just throwing university money around like Christmas when he couldn’t get top or second tier talent to join the program.
Bannon had a chance to turn the program around but he was an introverted nut case where as Rice was more extroverted.
GO RU