Team is Just Not That Good

[Plum Street]

Team might not be as good as most, including me, thought it was.
But the program has improved enough under Pike, that instead of hoping the team
will have a winning record , we expect a top 25 like program.
In his 5 years at the helm Pikiel has made the team into one we complain about how it
is not living up to the type of play we believe it should be capable of and looking at the players
as not playing the way we expect them to.

The frustration of rooting for a team that seems incapable of having winning seasons, has been replaced by being frustrated that RU MBB isn't playing like a top 25 program and being ranked as one.
Might be frustrating watching the team not live up to the standards expected, but at least we have standards now.
That said, this team needs to get it together because they could make us proud by playing above the level they are playing now.

Could be the chemistry of team has changed and Pike needs to get the team back in sync bring back the team chemistry and discipline that made them look like they were going somewhere in the early part of season.

Team is actually pretty good right now . If the tournament started today , this team is solidly in. In college basketball the line between a good team and bad team is quite clear : you’re either in the tournament or you’re not . Simple as that .
Still games to be played and this team needs to get it done

 

[cm_13]

Sorry you can’t see it, maybe it’s you that has the rose colored glasses. I won’t point fingers but it’s obvious if you watch. And last year ran thru December.

A few have some of there focus elsewhere. Maybe COVID-19 has something to do with it, but if you read they have other concerns too

Looks like I may have misinterpreted you saying last year to mean last season, my apologies.

Definitely not looking at anything through rosy shades, this season has absolutely been a disappointment compared to the expectations we all had had coming in, not arguing against that at all.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Excellent post by PHIL. I agree with a lot of what was said, and I especially agree with your observation about locker room/Chemistry issues. Body language is the biggest sign of this. Players can’t hide their true feelings. Too often we see the pouting and sulking from GEO AND RON, and now Mathis. My theory and guess is they do not all get along with Jacob. He came in as a transfer and has taken some a lot of plying time and spotlight off of the original RU commits. He likes to Play at a different speed than the rest of the team. Only a guess, but JY is the only player not pouting or showing bad language or lack of hustle when things don’t go his way. Another sign, Often he plays well when the team does not. Again, just a theory. But transfers in can often stir the pot. I thought our team would be more mentally and emotionally mature To handle some disagreement and Adversity.

Thanks. I may not be correct with the below but from what I have seen / observed last year and prior:

- Jacob and Montez appear tight. I have seen them together after games and Jacob mingling with Montez' Mom etc.

- Harp seems like a real popular / well liked guy on the team.

- I don't know much about Geo and the locker room dynamics / friendships etc but from a distance, it appeared he was close with Joey Downes last year.

- It wouldn't shock me if the control / alpha aspect on the team became chemically imbalanced with Jacob's emergence and Ron's NBA fling early in the season and it having a negative impact on Geo who may not be as close with his teammates than Harp and Jacob may be. Plus when Geo was out last year and this year, the team won.

- Geo is my favorite player on the team and I will always respect / admire Geo for elevating this program and if I were coach, he'd always be my alpha / go to guy just out of respect and his accomplishments.

The above is all conjecture and observation from me.

 

[OriginalKnight]

Uh.

Fail.

 

[fluoxetine]

2s are way more than just shots right at the rim. Fail.

Those are "close 2s" dude.

I'll grant you I didn't count "dunks"

So, close 2s + dunks:
Last year 545/875 - 62.29%
This year 354/564 - 62.77%


I'm sure you're going to come back like "hurr durr no close twos actually includes things that are not quite layups. I only mean layups" and my response is:

1. Give me a ******* break and
2. Then I guess we are making a ton more of the slightly longer close 2s to make up for it so who cares?

 

[zappaa]

Yea that’s how I know we are 5-3. I don’t understand. You think we should have beaten #3 16-1 Michigan at their place? Or #9 Iowa at their place? What did you expect?

You guys live and die after every game. Thank god you guys don’t have an actual say with the program.

Deep breathes. Let the season play out. Last year you all had us dead to rights until we bet #9 Maryland and purdue to close out the season and send us too the ncaa tournament(we all know we were a lock).

Glad you’re happy with what you’re seeing.
Actually, last year I was confident.

 

[Plum Street]

Glad you’re happy with what you’re seeing.
Actually, last year I was confident.

If season ended today, we are a tournament team . That’s the standard . Obviously it doesn’t so there is still work to be done .

 

[OriginalKnight]

Those are "close 2s" dude.

I'll grant you I didn't count "dunks"

So, close 2s + dunks:
Last year 545/875 - 62.29%
This year 354/564 - 62.77%


I'm sure you're going to come back like "hurr durr no close twos actually includes things that are not quite layups. I only mean layups" and my response is:

1. Give me a ****ing break and
2. Then I guess we are making a ton more of the slightly longer close 2s to make up for it so who cares?

Fail

 

[fluoxetine]

So just to recap:

Does that explain how we can’t hit shots 2 feet from the rim?

I don’t know man I’m pretty sure we missed some layups last season too.

Yeah all teams do. We miss them at an alarming rate. Way more than last year. You haven’t watched both seasons regularly .

I forgot I can actually look this up..

Last year close 2s: 444/761 - 58.3%
This year close 2s: 283/480 - 59.0%

2s are way more than just shots right at the rim. Fail.

Those are "close 2s" dude.

I'll grant you I didn't count "dunks"

So, close 2s + dunks:
Last year 545/875 - 62.29%
This year 354/564 - 62.77%


I'm sure you're going to come back like "hurr durr no close twos actually includes things that are not quite layups. I only mean layups" and my response is:

1. Give me a ****ing break and
2. Then I guess we are making a ton more of the slightly longer close 2s to make up for it so who cares?

Fail.

Embarrassing dude. Just embarrassing.

 

[RUJMM78]

Team might not be as good as most, including me, thought it was.
But the program has improved enough under Pike, that instead of hoping the team
will have a winning record , we expect a top 25 like program.
In his 5 years at the helm Pikiel has made the team into one we complain about how it
is not living up to the type of play we believe it should be capable of and looking at the players
as not playing the way we expect them to.

The frustration of rooting for a team that seems incapable of having winning seasons, has been replaced by being frustrated that RU MBB isn't playing like a top 25 program and being ranked as one.
Might be frustrating watching the team not live up to the standards expected, but at least we have standards now.
That said, this team needs to get it together because they could make us proud by playing above the level they are playing now.

Could be the chemistry of team has changed and Pike needs to get the team back in sync bring back the team chemistry and discipline that made them look like they were going somewhere in the early part of season.

Its true that fan expectations have changed for the better and the team has showed the last two seasons that they are a 6-10 ranked B1G team .This season they have shown the ability to grind out wins in low scoring games.The woeful offense is the big unresolved problem that only better recruiting can solve.Making the NCAA Tournament was my only goal for the season.Failure to do so will result in lots of questioning in regard to coaches and players.

 

[shields]

Should have beaten Iowa at home. Harper missed big foul shot.

 

[Randal7]

Here's the frustration I have, and it's NOT meant to be a critique of Pike, because he's done a tremendous job here and deserves our respect. But, I want to isolate the talent we've got on this team.

Just look at our roster objectively, and give this squad to McCaffrey at Iowa; to Izzo at Michigan St; to Krzyzewski at Duke.

Would this team not be a top 15 squad with those coaches?

I just find it hard to conjure that Krzyzewski couldn't take Jacob Young, Geo Baker, Ron Harper, Myles Johnson, and Caleb McConnel to the final 4.

 

[fluoxetine]

Here's the frustration I have, and it's NOT meant to be a critique of Pike, because he's done a tremendous job here and deserves our respect. But, I want to isolate the talent we've got on this team.

Just look at our roster objectively, and give this squad to McCaffrey at Iowa; to Izzo at Michigan St; to Krzyzewski at Duke.

Would this team not be a top 15 squad with those coaches?

I just find it hard to conjure that Krzyzewski couldn't take Jacob Young, Geo Baker, Ron Harper, Myles Johnson, and Caleb McConnel to the final 4.

I don't get that at all. In fact I think the only reason you think these guys are so good is because of what Pike has done.

Myles Johnson is a defensive monster but he is foul prone and cannot shoot away from the basket AT ALL
Ron Harper has obviously shown flashes of brilliance but also flashes of, well, whatever he's been doing for the last 10 games
Jacob Young couldn't get any playing time at Texas
Baker is a 3-star guy who can't shoot
Caleb McConnell is not a star player

 

[bethlehemfan]

Should have beaten Iowa at home. Harper missed big foul shot.

Also Geo got hacked. That was a bummer.

 

[fluoxetine]

I don't get that at all. In fact I think the only reason you think these guys are so good is because of what Pike has done.

Myles Johnson is a defensive monster but he is foul prone and cannot shoot away from the basket AT ALL
Ron Harper has obviously shown flashes of brilliance but also flashes of, well, whatever he's been doing for the last 10 games
Jacob Young couldn't get any playing time at Texas
Baker is a 3-star guy who can't shoot
Caleb McConnell is not a star player

By the way, I like our players. I'm not trying to insult these guys. I'm just saying it's not like we are recruiting the kind of talent that Izzo or Coach K are. And those guys are struggling this year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry you can’t see it, maybe it’s you that has the rose colored glasses. I won’t point fingers but it’s obvious if you watch. And last year ran thru December.

A few have some of there focus elsewhere. Maybe COVID-19 has something to do with it, but if you read they have other concerns too

Look at the past 2 years. How many ups and down did we have? Every time we came back.

why is it different this time?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Look at the past 2 years. How many ups and down did we have? Every time we came back.

why is it different this time?

It’s different because we weren’t supposed to be good and because when your starting point includes losing to St Bonnie’s on a neutral floor and barely scraping by a terrible Drexel team the bar is extremely low throughout conference play. Even with the losses to middle of the pack BIG teams it felt like we were improving throughout the season. This year is completely the opposite. We peaked early and it’s tough to forget how well we shot from long range early and simply accept that this is a poor perimeter team. Last year, we couldn’t shoot from the start so any time we hit 35% from 3 in BIG play it felt like a huge bonus. That’s why.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So it’s different this time because expectations are different?

I’ll have to say that is the strongest argument ever.

 

[MadRU]

Look at the past 2 years. How many ups and down did we have? Every time we came back.

why is it different this time?

I hope we get the wins needed to get to the dance.

I know what I see with my eyes for the last X amount of games. I do not see the hustle from some that I did in the past. I also saw a reaction after a win that I did not like.

Again, I will not call out anyone by name. Maybe the players only meeting will refocus them and address what has been going on.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

We don't talk about it much but I think the lack of fans (either home or away) has to have an impact on the focus of the players and, especially at home, gave us that extra boost that could've allowed us to overcome some of these flat home performances. I think our home court advantage was much greater than our away disadvantage and when you remove that factor we lose something.

Well, It’s talked about every home game, but yes it’s completely true.

 

[fluoxetine]

The expectations are different is somewhat revisionist IMO anyway. Definitely early in the year they were very different. But after the stretch in December 2019/January 2020 where we played basically as well as we did at the beginning of this season (which people forget because we were off the national radar and didn't really get ranked at all until the tail end of that stretch) I would say expectations were fairly high. We then proceeded to go 2-6 in February and everyone was panicking, which they also forget because of the good final week.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

So it’s different this time because expectations are different?

I’ll have to say that is the strongest argument ever.

Yes - this is exactly why. Winning early elevated those expectations beyond even where they were pre-season. So yes - when that’s your starting point 8-9 feels disappointing vs. that same type of record in a year where you started out hoping to break through and make the NIT.

 

[richthedentist]

Should have beaten Iowa at home. Harper missed big foul shot.

Also Harper didn't box out on there missed foul shot at the end of the game

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I hope we get the wins needed to get to the dance.

I know what I see with my eyes for the last X amount of games. I do not see the hustle from some that I did in the past. I also saw a reaction after a win that I did not like.

Again, I will not call out anyone by name. Maybe the players only meeting will refocus them and address what has been going on.

How many names are on the list?

Mine has a few AND it will be fixed. We had the same issue a month ago and it was fixed.

 

[MadRU]

How many names are on the list?

Mine has a few AND it will be fixed. We had the same issue a month ago and it was fixed.

Was it?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Was it?

Our defense and rebounding were terrible. Stats back it up. Now our primary problem is offense.

I am not arguing against the notion that we have a few individuals not giving their all every possession (being kind). Our big problem is shooting.

Making 3 point shots cures almost all ills. I really believe this is as simple as RHJ breaking out of a shooting slump.

If RHJ goes 6-9 from 3 against IU and starts shooting arrows (which I hate)all over the RAC........
1. Pike will have outcoached Archie
2. Team meeting will have worked
3. Chemistry wont be an issue
4. Effort would be there
5. Ball movement would be excellent

 

[RU at the shore]

Here's the frustration I have, and it's NOT meant to be a critique of Pike, because he's done a tremendous job here and deserves our respect. But, I want to isolate the talent we've got on this team.

Just look at our roster objectively, and give this squad to McCaffrey at Iowa; to Izzo at Michigan St; to Krzyzewski at Duke.

Would this team not be a top 15 squad with those coaches?

I just find it hard to conjure that Krzyzewski couldn't take Jacob Young, Geo Baker, Ron Harper, Myles Johnson, and Caleb McConnel to the final 4.

Krzyzewski and Izzo have players ranked FAR above the group you just mentioned and neither is in the top 15 nor going to the Final 4.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Our defense and rebounding were terrible. Stats back it up. Now our primary problem is offense.

I am not arguing against the notion that we have a few individuals not giving their all every possession (being kind). Our big problem is shooting.

Making 3 point shots cures almost all ills. I really believe this is as simple as RHJ breaking out of a shooting slump.

If RHJ goes 6-9 from 3 against IU and starts shooting arrows (which I hate)all over the RAC........
1. Pike will have outcoached Archie
2. Team meeting will have worked
3. Chemistry wont be an issue
4. Effort would be there
5. Ball movement would be excellent

Correct. If RHJ starts hitting open shots and finishing lay ups we are a different team. No changes needed.

 

[bac2therac]

Look at the past 2 years. How many ups and down did we have? Every time we came back.

why is it different this time?

we lost to awful Pitt and St Bonnies last seasons and all the Big 10 losses were pretty close

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

we lost to awful Pitt and St Bonnies last seasons and all the Big 10 losses were pretty close

I'll bet if you went back and read every of your post game analysises from both years you would conclude this year is very similar to last year. Each season is a roller coaster of ups and downs.

My preseason pick last year was for a decent record, but for at least 2 times there would be legitimate thread of people questioning whether Pikiell was the right coach.

We will be fine.
Last year we were #30 by bart
This year we are #31 (dropped 1 last night)

Last year 11-9 in P5
This year 9-9

We feel, look and smell like the 8 seedish team we have been for the past 2 years when you erase the thoughts of the last game

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Correct. If RHJ starts hitting open shots and finishing lay ups we are a different team. No changes needed.

I hope he isn't.....
Shane Spencer
Kevin Maas
Joe Charboaneau
Mark Fidrych
Jeremy Lin
David Duval
Gloria Gainer

 

[G- RUnit]

the top of the league is better, the middle including Rutgers is not.

The league from top to bottom on the whole is much better.

 

[MadRU]

Our defense and rebounding were terrible. Stats back it up. Now our primary problem is offense.

I am not arguing against the notion that we have a few individuals not giving their all every possession (being kind). Our big problem is shooting.

Making 3 point shots cures almost all ills. I really believe this is as simple as RHJ breaking out of a shooting slump.

If RHJ goes 6-9 from 3 against IU and starts shooting arrows (which I hate)all over the RAC........
1. Pike will have outcoached Archie
2. Team meeting will have worked
3. Chemistry wont be an issue
4. Effort would be there
5. Ball movement would be excellent

Of course if shooting improves and we win it will be looked on as a positive.

But if I see the same things I have been seeing since January I will still be very worried about our remaining schedule.

Last season was one of my favorite Rutgers teams to root for. Even in our losses you could see the effort. There is always an outlier or two, but for the most part the effort and focus as a team was there.

Even early this season I saw it. Something has changed since early January, and it’s more than a shooting slump.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Of course if shooting improves and we win it will be looked on as a positive.

But if I see the same things I have been seeing since January I will still be very worried about our remaining schedule.

Last season was one of my favorite Rutgers teams to root for. Even in our losses you could see the effort. There is always an outlier or two, but for the most part the effort and focus as a team was there.

Even early this season I saw it. Something has changed since early January, and it’s more than a shooting slump.

Is it possible it has been caused by a shooting slump...what you see.

I am calling it temporary.

I will admit it is definitely something I am keeping my eye on.

My thoughts could also be influenced by not being at games.

 

[MadRU]

Is it possible it has been caused by a shooting slump...what you see.

I am calling it temporary.

I will admit it is definitely something I am keeping my eye on.

My thoughts could also be influenced by not being at games.

I won’t rule out anything but am very skeptical of that. Likewise I will be looking closely Wednesday night.

 

[NickRU714]

I hope he isn't.....
Shane Spencer
Kevin Maas
Joe Charboaneau
Mark Fidrych
Jeremy Lin
David Duval
Gloria Gainer

I was going to start a thread of this but - I think everyone is putting a little too much weight into a 2 week/4 game stretch for RHJ in December.

He was very good for 2 weeks in December.
But, he was never in the National POY/NBA lottery pick discussion outside of a few posters/threads on this board.

He was never going to be a 25+ppg scorer for the entire year.

Conference Only:
2018-2019: 8.9ppg, 34.3% from 3
2019-2020: 11.9ppg, 37.3% from 3
2020-2021: 13.8ppg, 27.1% from 3 (this is concerning)

Even his 2 week stretch wasn't amazing. It was very good but everyone lost their minds with expectations.
Syracuse: 26pts, 7rb (5/8 from 3)
Maryland: 27pts, 5rb (5/8 from 3)
Ill: 28pts, 9rb (5/8 from 3)
OSU: 20pts, 6rb (4/10 from 3)

He wasn't going to be a 50% 3pt shooter all year.

 

[Perricone7]

It’s easy to get lost in the “many returning players so team must improve” narrative, but history shows that tends to not be the case. This is still a team of mostly mid-level recruits with a few fringe top 100 guys and transfers.

 

[AZBlues]

I forgot I can actually look this up..

Last year close 2s: 444/761 - 58.3%
This year close 2s: 283/480 - 59.0%

Those are "close 2s" dude.

I'll grant you I didn't count "dunks"

So, close 2s + dunks:
Last year 545/875 - 62.29%
This year 354/564 - 62.77%

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure that Barttorvik.com's criteria for "close 2's" include dunks. (If we look at the shot selection percentages, close 2's + far 2's + 3pt shots = 100%)

To get the percentages for close 2's that aren't dunks, we need to subtract dunk data from the "close 2" data.

RU Last season:
Dunks 101/114 = 88.59%
Close 2's that aren't dunks: 343/647 = 53.01%

This season:
Dunks 71/84 = 84.52%
Close 2's that aren't dunks: 212/396 = 53.53%

It would be helpful to know what criteria Barttorvik uses to classify a 2 point shot as a "close 2" or a "far 2", but I can't locate that information on the site.

 

[fluoxetine]

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure that Barttorvik.com's criteria for "close 2's" include dunks. (If we look at the shot selection percentages, close 2's + far 2's + 3pt shots = 100%)

To get the percentages for close 2's that aren't dunks, we need to subtract dunk data from the "close 2" data.

RU Last season:
Dunks 101/114 = 88.59%
Close 2's that aren't dunks: 343/647 = 53.01%

This season:
Dunks 71/84 = 84.52%
Close 2's that aren't dunks: 212/396 = 53.53%

It would be helpful to know what criteria Barttorvik uses to classify a 2 point shot as a "close 2" or a "far 2", but I can't locate that information on the site.

Interesting, thanks.

I know it's based on the play-by-play data. I think that if it says "layup" or "dunk" it would be a close 2 and if it says "jumper" it would be a far 2 but agreed we don't know for sure.

 

[bac2therac]

I'll bet if you went back and read every of your post game analysises from both years you would conclude this year is very similar to last year. Each season is a roller coaster of ups and downs.

My preseason pick last year was for a decent record, but for at least 2 times there would be legitimate thread of people questioning whether Pikiell was the right coach.

We will be fine.
Last year we were #30 by bart
This year we are #31 (dropped 1 last night)

Last year 11-9 in P5
This year 9-9

We feel, look and smell like the 8 seedish team we have been for the past 2 years when you erase the thoughts of the last game

i bet not...this years has been painful

team is not working hard and playing with the energy they did last season..full stop