Cliff O and this coaching staff

[biazza38]

It’s only been 13 games and Cliff was also injured, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t at least a little concerned with the way we’re using him. The next 11 games will be telling of this staff. I get it, Cliff’s a freshmen so it takes a little time to develop. But this coaching staff has this great unicorn and the only thing we can draw up is throwing the ball into the 20th row by attempting a lob pass. I don’t understand how you can’t get low post scoring from him. This guy is an NBA player. Let me say something that will scare some of you, we may only get two years with Cliff. If he doesn’t produce next year, it’s on the staff and he will transfer to a staff that can get him to the NBA

 

[Sweet Pea's Corner]

I agree. It's all lobs.

 

[jordkap]

It’s only been 13 games and Cliff was also injured, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t at least a little concerned with the way we’re using him. The next 11 games will be telling of this staff. I get it, Cliff’s a freshmen so it takes a little time to develop. But this coaching staff has this great unicorn and the only thing we can draw up is throwing the ball into the 20th row by attempting a lob pass. I don’t understand how you can’t get low post scoring from him. This guy is an NBA player. Let me say something that will scare some of you, we may only get two years with Cliff. If he doesn’t produce next year, it’s on the staff and he will transfer to a staff that can get him to the NBA

We don’t run any semblance of an offense so, just like Myles, rarely gets the ball outside of easy dunks

 

[biazza38]

We don’t run any semblance of an offense so, just like Myles, rarely gets the ball outside of easy dunks

That’s a problem. Good luck landing any top talent when you waste the best player you ever land. This “positionless pop a shot everyone is steph curry” basketball is terrible. Our opponents’ bigs are almost never in foul trouble because we don’t grind it out down low.

 

[shields]

If they were in foul trouble, does it matter? Can't make a foul shot.

 

[RUSeaGirtMA]

It’s only been 13 games and Cliff was also injured, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t at least a little concerned with the way we’re using him. The next 11 games will be telling of this staff. I get it, Cliff’s a freshmen so it takes a little time to develop. But this coaching staff has this great unicorn and the only thing we can draw up is throwing the ball into the 20th row by attempting a lob pass. I don’t understand how you can’t get low post scoring from him. This guy is an NBA player. Let me say something that will scare some of you, we may only get two years with Cliff. If he doesn’t produce next year, it’s on the staff and he will transfer to a staff that can get him to the NBA

This is very true. Transfer possibility dawned on me recently. Doesn’t seem to be developing even though he obviously has huge talent.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There nothing but bad information in the thread. It is selective reading and lack of awareness.

Cliff is a raw offensive player who is still learning the game. He is a plus athlete and his strength of his game is defense and rebounding. He did not have an offensive skill set in high school that you could watch and say "oh he has this post move or jump hook or baseline stuff or understands the complete aspects of footwork.

Bigs take the longest time to develop and it takes LOTS of work to get to a point where he is remotely close to a NBA caliber player.

As a comparison, Myles Johnson played guard and forward in his grade school and early high school career and has a better understanding of footwork and post play....BUT you are watching someone in his 4th year in a program, not 6 or 7 games into a career, off a knee injury like Cliff.

I get fans are looking for blood right now, but no smart or basketball fan that watched any of Cliff in HS ever uttered the word "offensive player".....he scored in HS on lobs and dunks and unfortunately, throwing wild or inaccurate passes may work in HS or in practice vs other teammates....but Cliff will do his best development from April to October, during the offseason. You have to have some baseline skills and moves that are your basics and must be down-pat, 100%, before expecting those skills to translate to the best league in College hoops.

The one thing that the B1G does to every players, coach, assistant etc is provide immediate clarity or understanding of what holes you have in your game. There are no DePaul or South Florida's of the old Big East, to hide what isn't good about what's needed. If you have a strength, teams will try and take that away.....can you overcome it will that strength being mixed with talent....?? If you have a hole in your game, can you shore it up and minimize the damage??

Cliff has played 2 games and been out of the rotation on defense and a step or 2 behind...it only takes a couple of possessions on both ends of the court,, where you're just off or rusty or out of the flow. Cliff is definitely not part of the problem, he's actually part of the solution going forward.

 

[richthedentist]

How does myles only play 22 minutes Pikell is just doing an awful job with his substitution patterns and when you are getting killed on the boards put both big men in

 

[zappaa]

Raising your arm and asking for the ball even when you’re not remotely open or in position to do anything with it is not an offense. lol
Someone please teach our centers how to play offense under the basket

 

[zappaa]

There nothing but bad information in the thread. It is selective reading and lack of awareness.

Cliff is a raw offensive player who is still learning the game. He is a plus athlete and his strength of his game is defense and rebounding. He did not have an offensive skill set in high school that you could watch and say "oh he has this post move or jump hook or baseline stuff or understands the complete aspects of footwork.

Bigs take the longest time to develop and it takes LOTS of work to get to a point where he is remotely close to a NBA caliber player.

As a comparison, Myles Johnson played guard and forward in his grade school and early high school career and has a better understanding of footwork and post play....BUT you are watching someone in his 4th year in a program, not 6 or 7 games into a career, off a knee injury like Cliff.

I get fans are looking for blood right now, but no smart or basketball fan that watched any of Cliff in HS ever uttered the word "offensive player".....he scored in HS on lobs and dunks and unfortunately, throwing wild or inaccurate passes may work in HS or in practice vs other teammates....but Cliff will do his best development from April to October, during the offseason. You have to have some baseline skills and moves that are your basics and must be down-pat, 100%, before expecting those skills to translate to the best league in College hoops.

The one thing that the B1G does to every players, coach, assistant etc is provide immediate clarity or understanding of what holes you have in your game. There are no DePaul or South Florida's of the old Big East, to hide what isn't good about what's needed. If you have a strength, teams will try and take that away.....can you overcome it will that strength being mixed with talent....?? If you have a hole in your game, can you shore it up and minimize the damage??

Cliff has played 2 games and been out of the rotation on defense and a step or 2 behind...it only takes a couple of possessions on both ends of the court,, where you're just off or rusty or out of the flow. Cliff is definitely not part of the problem, he's actually part of the solution going forward.

Hawk-
When you advance in levels to the point of playing in an elite league, everyone knows it takes time to learn the things you never had to do in high school.
I understand if Cliff even had a little offensive game he’d of scored 25 points a game in high schools.
But just as big a part of the learning process is knowing what you can’t do and what you must not attempt at this level.
Raising you arm and making yourself a target when you’re in no position to receive it or do anything with it is one of them

 

[biazza38]

There nothing but bad information in the thread. It is selective reading and lack of awareness.

Cliff is a raw offensive player who is still learning the game. He is a plus athlete and his strength of his game is defense and rebounding. He did not have an offensive skill set in high school that you could watch and say "oh he has this post move or jump hook or baseline stuff or understands the complete aspects of footwork.

Bigs take the longest time to develop and it takes LOTS of work to get to a point where he is remotely close to a NBA caliber player.

As a comparison, Myles Johnson played guard and forward in his grade school and early high school career and has a better understanding of footwork and post play....BUT you are watching someone in his 4th year in a program, not 6 or 7 games into a career, off a knee injury like Cliff.

I get fans are looking for blood right now, but no smart or basketball fan that watched any of Cliff in HS ever uttered the word "offensive player".....he scored in HS on lobs and dunks and unfortunately, throwing wild or inaccurate passes may work in HS or in practice vs other teammates....but Cliff will do his best development from April to October, during the offseason. You have to have some baseline skills and moves that are your basics and must be down-pat, 100%, before expecting those skills to translate to the best league in College hoops.

The one thing that the B1G does to every players, coach, assistant etc is provide immediate clarity or understanding of what holes you have in your game. There are no DePaul or South Florida's of the old Big East, to hide what isn't good about what's needed. If you have a strength, teams will try and take that away.....can you overcome it will that strength being mixed with talent....?? If you have a hole in your game, can you shore it up and minimize the damage??

Cliff has played 2 games and been out of the rotation on defense and a step or 2 behind...it only takes a couple of possessions on both ends of the court,, where you're just off or rusty or out of the flow. Cliff is definitely not part of the problem, he's actually part of the solution going forward.

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. All I’m saying is I’m concerned. Myles is a great defensive player, offensively though, he doesn’t get great touches. Why should believe that will change with Cliff?

 

[RU206]

There nothing but bad information in the thread. It is selective reading and lack of awareness.

Cliff is a raw offensive player who is still learning the game. He is a plus athlete and his strength of his game is defense and rebounding. He did not have an offensive skill set in high school that you could watch and say "oh he has this post move or jump hook or baseline stuff or understands the complete aspects of footwork.

Bigs take the longest time to develop and it takes LOTS of work to get to a point where he is remotely close to a NBA caliber player.

As a comparison, Myles Johnson played guard and forward in his grade school and early high school career and has a better understanding of footwork and post play....BUT you are watching someone in his 4th year in a program, not 6 or 7 games into a career, off a knee injury like Cliff.

I get fans are looking for blood right now, but no smart or basketball fan that watched any of Cliff in HS ever uttered the word "offensive player".....he scored in HS on lobs and dunks and unfortunately, throwing wild or inaccurate passes may work in HS or in practice vs other teammates....but Cliff will do his best development from April to October, during the offseason. You have to have some baseline skills and moves that are your basics and must be down-pat, 100%, before expecting those skills to translate to the best league in College hoops.

The one thing that the B1G does to every players, coach, assistant etc is provide immediate clarity or understanding of what holes you have in your game. There are no DePaul or South Florida's of the old Big East, to hide what isn't good about what's needed. If you have a strength, teams will try and take that away.....can you overcome it will that strength being mixed with talent....?? If you have a hole in your game, can you shore it up and minimize the damage??

Cliff has played 2 games and been out of the rotation on defense and a step or 2 behind...it only takes a couple of possessions on both ends of the court,, where you're just off or rusty or out of the flow. Cliff is definitely not part of the problem, he's actually part of the solution going forward.

This is accurate. In HS Cliff was not a scorer. He would get offensive rebounds and dunks for his points. If anyone watched him play against other top Bigs in HS, he didn’t score. Cliff is here for defense and rebounding. Cliff is not an NBA player. There are a bunch of Bigs around the country better than Cliff that won’t sniff the NBA. Everyone on this board needs to back away from those NBA discussions.

 

[RUBOB72]

This is very true. Transfer possibility dawned on me recently. Doesn’t seem to be developing even though he obviously has huge talent.

Well he was out how many games with an injury which is probably still not 100%. That may be part of his “ not developing “?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Hawk-
When you advance in levels to the point of playing in an elite league, everyone knows it takes time to learn the things you never had to do in high school.
I understand if Cliff even had a little offensive game he’d of scored 25 points a game in high schools.
But just as big a part of the learning process is knowing what you can’t do and what you must not attempt at this level.
Raising you arm and making yourself a target when you’re in no position to receive it or do anything with it is one of them

There are things that kids are taught and practice that don't show up in a game. Let's say he asks for the ball, gets it and turns and makes a good pass to the 3 point line and then another pass for a better shot.

Just because a player is asking for a pass, doesn't immediately mean the player should turn and shoot the ball or take off 1 on 1 to score.

Somehow basketball has been viewed as a fantasy league sport, based on scoring only. The pass to the post or high post should always be made, just to keep the defense honest or showing the defense you are willing to give your big the ball in that spot. The player doesn't have to be Luka Garza to justify making that same pass....if the player can make a pass from there, it at least changes the angles and avoids the ball just going around the 3 point line.

 

[kcg88]

NJHawk's world must be great. Nothing is ever wrong with a basketball team that's missed the tournament for 30 years.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

NJHawk's world must be great. Nothing is ever wrong with a basketball team that's missed the tournament for 30 years.

This isn't a clown show like you choose to be like....this isn't about the old Big East or AAC years of no funding and no facilities and borderline ridiculous coaching staffs.

This is a "this year and season or where is the program discussion"....making the NCAAs solves what exactly if the program doesn't evolve into something beyond that??

It's only a small minded person that looks at 1991 as some sort of impact on playing in the B1G against good teams most nights. But if that's where you want to live, carry on....

You would be the 1st fan saying that making the tournament is an accomplishment and be happy with it....and that would solve exactly what, if it's not followed up with another winning season or program being built.

There is a small goal mentality that plagues most of the RU fanbase in both sports....it's accepting small goals as accomplishments....you can throw the celebration party if you like, I'll pass....

 

[RAC’emUp]

There nothing but bad information in the thread. It is selective reading and lack of awareness.

Cliff is a raw offensive player who is still learning the game. He is a plus athlete and his strength of his game is defense and rebounding. He did not have an offensive skill set in high school that you could watch and say "oh he has this post move or jump hook or baseline stuff or understands the complete aspects of footwork.

Bigs take the longest time to develop and it takes LOTS of work to get to a point where he is remotely close to a NBA caliber player.

As a comparison, Myles Johnson played guard and forward in his grade school and early high school career and has a better understanding of footwork and post play....BUT you are watching someone in his 4th year in a program, not 6 or 7 games into a career, off a knee injury like Cliff.

I get fans are looking for blood right now, but no smart or basketball fan that watched any of Cliff in HS ever uttered the word "offensive player".....he scored in HS on lobs and dunks and unfortunately, throwing wild or inaccurate passes may work in HS or in practice vs other teammates....but Cliff will do his best development from April to October, during the offseason. You have to have some baseline skills and moves that are your basics and must be down-pat, 100%, before expecting those skills to translate to the best league in College hoops.

The one thing that the B1G does to every players, coach, assistant etc is provide immediate clarity or understanding of what holes you have in your game. There are no DePaul or South Florida's of the old Big East, to hide what isn't good about what's needed. If you have a strength, teams will try and take that away.....can you overcome it will that strength being mixed with talent....?? If you have a hole in your game, can you shore it up and minimize the damage??

Cliff has played 2 games and been out of the rotation on defense and a step or 2 behind...it only takes a couple of possessions on both ends of the court,, where you're just off or rusty or out of the flow. Cliff is definitely not part of the problem, he's actually part of the solution going forward.

This is an excellent post. The idea that Cliff is a “unicorn” is laughable. He is not yet even in the top 15 Big 10 centers. As you point out, holes in your game are quickly pointed out in the B10. Having said that, he has the athleticism to become a top defender. Becoming a rounded player with an offensive game will be all about putting in the work.

 

[RutgersDom]

There are things that kids are taught and practice that don't show up in a game. Let's say he asks for the ball, gets it and turns and makes a good pass to the 3 point line and then another pass for a better shot.

Just because a player is asking for a pass, doesn't immediately mean the player should turn and shoot the ball or take off 1 on 1 to score.

Somehow basketball has been viewed as a fantasy league sport, based on scoring only. The pass to the post or high post should always be made, just to keep the defense honest or showing the defense you are willing to give your big the ball in that spot. The player doesn't have to be Luka Garza to justify making that same pass....if the player can make a pass from there, it at least changes the angles and avoids the ball just going around the 3 point line.

Hawk, you are making too much sense for these parts! Look, we were never a good FT shooting team because we really aren't a good shooting team...We never were. Always has beena concern. I'm sure the bench players on wisc & Iowa can out shoot our starters...Has Rons' 3 improved yes? Paul & Tez? yes..

We started the season pretty hot shooting wise but it was fools gold to think that would last...We also shouldn't be as bad as we have been so hopefully somewhere in the middle the rest of the way...my BIGGEST concern is the lack of effort and body language from the guys (RHJ & GEO especially). It's almost like something happened a few weeks ago and their mentality changed...Our defense and rebounding which was always a given hasn't been there...That helps us run and get easier baskets...We were never a really good half court team...We never "Ran an offense"...It's the defensive and rebounding effort (On offense as well) that has me very concerned but should be the easiest to fix...Not sure why those areas in the OH st, Mich st & Penn st games were probably the worst I have seen in 3 years...perplexing