OT: Vaccine

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Lots of may haves and could bes in there. However, the China virus crowd makes it seem that it was intentional. Could it have been an accident as described, maybe. Should China be more transparent yes. It’s also possible it came from a bat, so not sure what to do about that.

Well intentional or not, it came from them and the next one will also, odds are (unless it is Ebola, though Ebola is not airborne transmitted (yet)).

When the next pandemic happens, I can only imagine what that shitstorm will look like now that we’ve had practice, and those in charge a taste of heightened power over people!

 

[ru109]

Serious question if you get vaccinated why do you still have to wear a mask? Makes zero sense in my opinion. I’m not anti vaccine either.

I would say that you could still spread it to people who haven't gotten the vaccine so a mask would still be required.

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

Im saying they were tested on animals and went through rigorous testing like any other vaccine/treatment. You also said they were stopped and reconfigured, which did not happen. AZ’s vaccine was paused due to a potential severe reaction, but restarted once a connection could not be found.

No side effects guaranteed? Are you talking about the well documented short term side effects such as shoulder pain, fatigue or temporary fever?

Why the warning to pregnant or planning on getting pregnant women? Would/should we revisit the birth defects from this great drug of the 1950's?https://www.discovermagazine.com/he...-mystery-how-thalidomide-causes-birth-defects

 

[RUBOB72]

You're so wrong it's not funny and you continue to post misinformation, which is not helpful at all. I was not "very wrong" on the distribution timeline. I simply quoted the government's estimate of 20MM vaccinated by early January - never promised it. I did say I thought we'd have 100MM vaccinated by the end of March, which I think is still realistic. You want me to link that post?

The virus will continue to mutate, but it will likely continue to mutate at a fairly slow rate, which is why most virologists feel the vaccines will likely be effective for a few years at least, although that's not 100% known and can't be known until we get there, but it's based on the best science out there (and as I just posted, it's looking very likely that the new variants will not be an issue for the current vaccines).

Finally, there is zero evidence that the virus was created in a lab and released. You spend way too much time reading conspiracy websites which are simply full of crap. It's impossible to disprove a negative, i.e., that it couldn't have been found in nature and accidentally released from a lab, but I'll go with the virologists on this one, i.e., that this virus evolved in bats and might've jumped to an intermediate hose, like SARS/MERS did, before jumping to humans, which is how every other virus in history infected humans.

Below is a link to the latest paper on synonymous coronavirus divergence indicating that the most recent common ancestor on the SARS-CoV-2 evolutionary line (between the bat coronavirus found in Yunnan Province which shares 96% of its genome with SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-2, itself) diverged about 50 years ago. Also, just because China didn't let the WHO in doesn't mean it came from a lab. It's just par for the course, given that China's transparency throughout this pandemic has been horrible - but that's how they roll, and again it doesn't mean the virus came from a lab.

https://academic.oup.com/ve/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ve/veaa098/6047024

Having said all that, we absolutely do need to be exploring potential origins of the virus and since more than a few folks seem to believe the accidental lab release theory is possible (but no virologists believe the virus was man-made that I know of) that ought to be evaluated also, if only to put the issue to bed. And keep in mind, that NY Mag article was written by someone with zero science background - it's an interesting story, but with many holes.

You are so blinded by your inordinate belief that everyone posts nonsense when they question the information being released .And yes , you were very wrong in the distributing of the vaccines.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

 

[WhiteBus]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

Those that aren't getting it are selfish. Thinking they aren't at risk of death or symptoms is fine with one huge exception. They can infect many others. Same principle of wearing a mask. You are protecting others not yourself.

 

[brad1218]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

I agree with you. Once everyone has had the choice to take it then that should be it. End of restrictions etc. if you decide not to take the vaccine and you get it then that’s your choice on on you. Bars shouldn’t be closed schools closed etc because people decided not to vaccine.

 

[RUBOB72]

Lots of may haves and could bes in there. However, the China virus crowd makes it seem that it was intentional. Could it have been an accident as described, maybe. Should China be more transparent yes. It’s also possible it came from a bat, so not sure what to do about that.

It came out of a Chinese lab . To continue believing the Bat - Pangolin theory is really grasping at straws. Engineered by some highly qualified scientists working with one intent to destabilize the world and cause groups to mistrust the other. It has proven very capable in causing that impact here in the USA. If you think China has our best interests at heart you are gravely damaged.

 

[RUBOB72]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

Because that is what they do. If you don’t bend the knee to them then you are the problem. The agree to disagree went out some years ago.

 

[RUBOB72]

You're so wrong it's not funny and you continue to post misinformation, which is not helpful at all. I was not "very wrong" on the distribution timeline. I simply quoted the government's estimate of 20MM vaccinated by early January - never promised it. I did say I thought we'd have 100MM vaccinated by the end of March, which I think is still realistic. You want me to link that post?

The virus will continue to mutate, but it will likely continue to mutate at a fairly slow rate, which is why most virologists feel the vaccines will likely be effective for a few years at least, although that's not 100% known and can't be known until we get there, but it's based on the best science out there (and as I just posted, it's looking very likely that the new variants will not be an issue for the current vaccines).

Finally, there is zero evidence that the virus was created in a lab and released. You spend way too much time reading conspiracy websites which are simply full of crap. It's impossible to disprove a negative, i.e., that it couldn't have been found in nature and accidentally released from a lab, but I'll go with the virologists on this one, i.e., that this virus evolved in bats and might've jumped to an intermediate hose, like SARS/MERS did, before jumping to humans, which is how every other virus in history infected humans.

Below is a link to the latest paper on synonymous coronavirus divergence indicating that the most recent common ancestor on the SARS-CoV-2 evolutionary line (between the bat coronavirus found in Yunnan Province which shares 96% of its genome with SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-2, itself) diverged about 50 years ago. Also, just because China didn't let the WHO in doesn't mean it came from a lab. It's just par for the course, given that China's transparency throughout this pandemic has been horrible - but that's how they roll, and again it doesn't mean the virus came from a lab.

https://academic.oup.com/ve/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ve/veaa098/6047024

Having said all that, we absolutely do need to be exploring potential origins of the virus and since more than a few folks seem to believe the accidental lab release theory is possible (but no virologists believe the virus was man-made that I know of) that ought to be evaluated also, if only to put the issue to bed. And keep in mind, that NY Mag article was written by someone with zero science background - it's an interesting story, but with many holes.

If that were so why did the Chinese ceremoniously refuse the WHO entry into the country? Though late to the dance at least it would make China appear as a helping partner and not the evil that is going to come in the very near future. I suppose you are ok with that?

 

[goru1869]

That is unfortunate. People that can get the vaccine, and pass on it, should go to the very end of the line. There are so many people (me, my family and friends) that want the vaccine now, and we can’t get it.

I agree %100 . I hope you all get it sooner than later . Right now it is a matter of people being patient . Time goes by quick , before you know it summer will be here and I hope the majority of people who want it have been able to get it.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

Those that aren't getting it are selfish. Thinking they aren't at risk of death or symptoms is fine with one huge exception. They can infect many others. Same principle of wearing a mask. You are protecting others not yourself.

White Bus:

But no matter what, even if everyone gets vaccinated, there will always be the risk of getting it, yes or no?

Economies and peoples lives are being destroyed because of the shutdowns and non-sensical mandates. The overall resulting health issues are being overlooked (ignored, really). My view of who is being selfish now is now that people can be vaccinated and those that choose to do so - great, but destroying a normal way of life without the unnecessary fear is totally selfish.

 

[RUBOB72]

If that were so why did the Chinese ceremoniously refuse the WHO entry into the country? Though late to the dance at least it would make China appear as a helping partner and not the evil that is going to come in the very near future. I suppose you are ok with that?

Oh and we see again this very morning Murphy lamenting the lack of vaccines 4 weeks into the release and I ‘m wrong? As I said before , you are a great one for criticizing others on here who not only have doubts about the vaccine and it’s lasting effects but the rollout . The gov needs to have a scapegoat since he proves weekly he lacks
the ability to organize this properly. He is a politician to the fullest extent and yet people give him a free pass because of party affiliation.

 

[goru1869]

Oh and we see again this very morning Murphy lamenting the lack of vaccines 4 weeks into the release and I ‘m wrong? As I said before , you are a great one for criticizing others on here who not only have doubts about the vaccine and it’s lasting effects but the rollout . The gov needs to have a scapegoat since he proves weekly he lacks
the ability to organize this properly. He is a politician to the fullest extent and yet people give him a free pass because of party affiliation.

I think I came across NJ has 417,000 shots that have not been used yet. There is plenty available at this point.

 

[pmvon]

I think I came across NJ has 417,000 shots that have not been used yet. There is plenty available at this point.

How many have been administered? The current plan is to hold shots for second doses. So if optimally administered based upon today’s plan, half the doses distributed would be administered. Approximately

 

[ArminRU]

Why the warning to pregnant or planning on getting pregnant women? Would/should we revisit the birth defects from this great drug of the 1950's?https://www.discovermagazine.com/he...-mystery-how-thalidomide-causes-birth-defects

Because thorough testing hasn’t been done on pregnant women yet, although experts believe it should be fine.

The thalidomide situation is completely different. Not a vaccine and was not even properly tested.

 

[mdk02]

Because of a lack of Federal help to States and a coordinated effort. That will change.

As well as ineptness by the states in the rollout,

 

[WhiteBus]

White Bus:

But no matter what, even if everyone gets vaccinated, there will always be the risk of getting it, yes or no?

Economies and peoples lives are being destroyed because of the shutdowns and non-sensical mandates. The overall resulting health issues are being overlooked (ignored, really). My view of who is being selfish now is now that people can be vaccinated and those that choose to do so - great, but destroying a normal way of life without the unnecessary fear is totally selfish.

And the government opening things up will be based off how many are vaccinated. If only 50% of people get vaccinated nothing changes.

 

[pmvon]

How many have been administered? The current plan is to hold shots for second doses. So if optimally administered based upon today’s plan, half the doses distributed would be administered. Approximately

New Jersey is doing pretty well administering on a per capita basis but not as well on shots administered as a percentage of shots held.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

 

[ArminRU]

I think I came across NJ has 417,000 shots that have not been used yet. There is plenty available at this point.

The Bloomberg tracker shows 572k doses, 180k doses used. So that’s about 390k left. But out of those, about 100-200k are reserved for nursing homes. So they have about 200-300k doses to work with.

There is also a lag in reporting for doses being administered, so that 180k number is low as well....we’re well into the 200’s by now.

 

[pmvon]

And the government opening things up will be based off how many are vaccinated. If only 50% of people get vaccinated nothing changes.

The people who will be able to go back to”normal” more quickly will be those vaccinated. I imagine a number of private enterprises will require for admission. Well see.

 

[ArminRU]

The Bloomberg tracker shows 572k doses, 180k doses used. So that’s about 390k left. But out of those, about 100-200k are reserved for nursing homes. So they have about 200-300k doses to work with. And then there are more doses reserved for the second shot, so it’s even less than that.

There is also a lag in reporting for doses being administered, so that 180k number is low as well....we’re well into the 200’s by now.

 

[RUBOB72]

I think I came across NJ has 417,000 shots that have not been used yet. There is plenty available at this point.

Murphy is a shrewd person. Knowing at this point deflecting blame for his poorly run campaign against the virus can buy him not only time but allow for excuses which in this state of NJ you don’t need a great many to get the sheep in line. Now we will see in an attempt to quiet the storm which is building daily in many of these NE states. People want competence and a feeling of security. He lends very little in this regard.

 

[richthedentist]

Congrats and stay safe - and thanks for being on the front lines providing essential medical services to people...

Welcome can't wait to get to see our RU hoops team in person again

 

[LETSGORU91_]

over 90% of MDs are taking the shots as quickly as they can--want to guess why--they know better

Where is that 90% number coming from? I dont doubt the number, just wondering where you got it from. It's a classic risk versus reward scenario. The risk of contracting the virus heavily outweighs the risk of an adverse initial reaction. I would very much like to fast forward and see (A) how effective the vaccine will be in preventing CV-19 or lessening the symptoms, and (B) what will be the long term effects (immunity, potential side effects down the road).

Many researchers have already stated the Covid-19 mRNA vaccine is likely to last for years . Obviously they don't know how many years but it's longer than a couple. We should be able to eradicate it in a couple years just like polio.

Hopefully this is true. I think they are banking on T cell recognition to identify the virus and jumpstart the immune response quicker. Antibodies should not be around that long. And yes, eradicate it ASAP and hopefully no new deadly viruses appear of of nowhere like this one did.

2. They're treating each person as if they were special. Sitting them down seeing if they have any questions or fears about the vaccine yadda, yadda, yadda. They need to do it assembly line style, you have a question, fine, get out of line and go over there. Someone eventually will be over to answer all your questions. Next

Assembly line? That's sure to raise a few legal issues. I dont know about the questions and fears, but proper screening is a must before administering the vaccine.

 

[Phi_1055]

That is unfortunate. People that can get the vaccine, and pass on it, should go to the very end of the line. There are so many people (me, my family and friends) that want the vaccine now, and we can’t get it.

They aren’t even in the line. And that enabled my daughter and many other people to move ahead and get their shot a week or two sooner than expected. I’m in 1B and if people who are eligible now want to let me pass them in line and get my shot a month or so sooner that’s fine with me.

 

[OntheBanks]

I know 4 people that were diagnosed in April . They tested positive for antibodies a couple times . By November and December 2020 none of them tested positive any longer

Add me to the list. Never had symptoms and never tested positive for covid19, but in May tested positive for Antibodies but by Nov the were gone.

 

[yesrutgers01]

My SIL- Nurse Practitioner had the 1st shot early on and just got her 2nd sot. She had no side effects to the first one but she had a large rash, swelling, fever, flu symptoms after the 2nd one. Was told to go home, rest, take precautions and keep an eye on it for a couple of days.

Not sure if this has been common to anyone else but disclaimer- she does have sickle cell...

 

[RUBOB72]

My SIL- Nurse Practitioner had the 1st shot early on and just got her 2nd sot. She had no side effects to the first one but she had a large rash, swelling, fever, flu symptoms after the 2nd one. Was told to go home, rest, take precautions and keep an eye on it for a couple of days.

Not sure if this has been common to anyone else but disclaimer- she does have sickle cell...

Didn’t the initial reports say that the 2nd dosage would cause more of a reaction than the first ? Quite certain this was brought up during the trials being run some months ago.

 

[rurichdog]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

There is a third bucket in play here: the immunocompromised who cannot get vaccinated because it will harm them.

But then it isn't completely safe. It's safe for pretty much everyone except a tiny fraction, but the overwhelming majority will need to alter their own choices & behaviors to save the precious few. Welcome to the new world.

 

[BigWill]

The ACTUAL PEOPLE MOST DIEING from the Wuhan Virus ARE NOT IN PHASE 1 A.

Otherwise known as the elderly over the age of 75.

Meanwhile the FDNY is Phase 1A, they are refusing or not responding to getting the shot at ABOVE THE RATE OF 60 PER CENT. (about 12,000 total FDNY)

While NYPD who actually has the most contact with NYC people on a daily basis and have over 35,000 members are Phase 1 B. Along with the elderly over the age of 75.

NY and NJ; "Perfect together", with apologies to Gov Kean.

 

[yesrutgers01]

What about prison inmates?

BIL currently in prison and they were not given shots or told that there would be...BIL did in fact get COVID19 about a month ago. Got a little sick but not much else. Even without major symptoms- the prison did make him complete a will.
Also- has been pissing us off all year- all these high profile and a lot of child molesters and violent crime people asking for and being released because of COVID. He is not in on violent- and was due to be released in Nov if he had finished a specific 300 hour program. The program was paused because of COVID and he only had 30 hrs left. Instead of releasing him early as planned, he has been pushed to a later release.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Didn’t the initial reports say that the 2nd dosage would cause more of a reaction than the first ? Quite certain this was brought up during the trials being run some months ago.

Wasn't aware of that.hmmmmm

 

[GORU2014]

My SIL- Nurse Practitioner had the 1st shot early on and just got her 2nd sot. She had no side effects to the first one but she had a large rash, swelling, fever, flu symptoms after the 2nd one. Was told to go home, rest, take precautions and keep an eye on it for a couple of days.

Not sure if this has been common to anyone else but disclaimer- she does have sickle cell...

My understanding is the stronger reactions to the second shot are an indication that the immune system is working properly and the vaccination was likely effective (in oversimplified terms).

 

[RU848789]

wrong thread, lol...

 

[ArminRU]

My understanding is the stronger reactions to the second shot are an indication that the immune system is working properly and the vaccination was likely effective (in oversimplified terms).

Correct. More non-serious adverse reactions were seen on the second dose. Those reactions resolve within 24hrs.

 

[BigWill]

Didn't we have to get 2 doses of the Polio Vaccine back in the day ?

Still remember visiting kids in the Calif Shriner's Hospital at the East West Shrine Game in San Fran and those kids in the iron lung machines.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

The ACTUAL PEOPLE MOST DIEING from the Wuhan Virus ARE NOT IN PHASE 1 A.

Otherwise known as the elderly over the age of 75.

Meanwhile the FDNY is Phase 1A, they are refusing or not responding to getting the shot at ABOVE THE RATE OF 60 PER CENT. (about 12,000 total FDNY)

While NYPD who actually has the most contact with NYC people on a daily basis and have over 35,000 members are Phase 1 B. Along with the elderly over the age of 75.

NY and NJ; "Perfect together", with apologies to Gov Kean.

NYPD should be prioritized and the 1B is indicative of that, isn't it? Why are you yelling about those 1A people getting vaccinated? This makes perfect sense from a logistical standpoint. If first line and primary, healthcare professionals get sick, who will take care of those 75 and over? They are face to face with CV-19+ individuals of all age ranges. Remove them from their ambulances, the hospitals and their offices due to sickness and there won't be enough medical staff to care of the sick.

 

[DHajekRC84]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

The math. People can certainly do what they want but even best case with the shot you still have 1 in 20 chance to get covid.
The more folks on the vaccine the less you're exposed to that 5% chance. We could wipe this thing out pretty quickly.

 

[RU848789]

For all the folks who have an issue with people choosing not to take the vaccine, here’s my question:

After some length of time, few months, May\June?, after everyone who wants the vaccine has taken it, you now have a population consisting of 2 buckets:

A- people. that are vaccinated and feel they are protected because of the vaccine

B-people who have chosen not to get vaccinated and are willing to take any associated risk

I strongly believe everyone should have a choice and decide, and no one should be forced to take a vaccine. I see people calling others morons etc and are angry at people for deciding not to take the vaccine (which could be for a lot of different reasons). Honest question - Why the lack of respect of others decisions?

It comes down to whether or not you care about your friends, family, neighbors and the general public or not. If you do, you'll get vaccinated, since getting quickly to herd immunity (probably close to 80% of the population) as that is the only way we end this pandemic with far less illness and death from here on out. If you don't, not getting vaccinated makes it much more likely you'll get infected and possibly infect others. It's similar logic to mask wearing.