Cliff will be better across the board.....eventually. He's just not the obvious upgrade over Carter at this point. Hopefully, i'll agree with you in a month.
Cliff
- Thread starter zappaa
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From what I've seen so far, I think Cliff will do fine on defense. He has speed and quickness, which most bigs don't have. He's been pretty good on the jump outs to double team and recover and he seems like a willing learner. He has the speed to cover Garza on the outside and the quickness to recover if he drives. He can block shots, which is another plus. Obviously, he needs more muscle to deal with Garza and Kofi down low, but I think he'll be ok with the other bigs. Overall, he's a very good fit for the type of pressure defense that we play.
Do you disagree he will hold his own AND is an upgrade defensively to Carter?
or just the 1st part
Why has he not won the jump ball to start the game against shorter players.
Just curious, I found it strange in 3 straight games we’ve lost the tap
Just curious, I found it strange in 3 straight games we’ve lost the tap
Carter played solid minutes against the elite centers of the B1G.
I need to see Cliff do it defensively....I don’t care about his offense, if he can offensive rebound it would be a huge contribution on offense
Carter was not a shot blocker. He got better as his senior season wore on. If you went apples to apples Cliff is ahead of wCarter was in the beginning of last year, forget his 1st year.
my opinion
my opinion
He played minutes bc there was no one else lol. Doucoure started his freshman year. Doesn't mean he was good. Cliff is already better than Carter. Cliff is much more valuable to this team than Carter was. Already. Now.
Jump balls are as much about timing as anything else, which comes with experience.
Experience playing at D1 level and game speed is crucial for his development, and we've had a slow but steady ramp up there from SHU to FDU to Hofstra.... Cuse will be a further step up in opponent, and then @Maryland, then Illinois. It's a short learning curve for a freshman big, but it does seem to build steadily from bottom to top over his first 6 games.
He plays in control. He makes good decisions. He doesn't try to do too much. He fights for loose balls and rebounds. He doesn't seem to rely on raw athleticism, but looks to be putting in the work to be better. Those are all great signs - signs that he'll be a different and better player by mid-season than he is right now.
He's obviously got tremendous athletic ability and as he gets older will also build further core strength. As he develops his post moves and shot, he will be a force on O. I've noticed that he currently sometimes gets lost in terms of positioning on D and and his man can slip him, also appears to rely more heavily on his athletics/arms instead of lower body for block attempts and rebounding. This will all come with further experience, seasoning & development. End of the day, my guess is that he will eventually surpass Johnson's current level but it may take a few years.
Didn’t you mention his ability to touch the top of the backboard . The jump ball thing is not because he is unable to elevate it’s probably more a mental block at this point. Is he a quick jumper ? I have to see Cliff more than these three games.
He is skinny, I'm not sure. I haven't seen any low post game or mid range jump shot from him yet.
I think it is hard to judge how strong Cliff is.. to this point I think he has largely been trying to use space and leaping to block shots... maybe that is because he needs lower body strength to move people.. maybe its just a preference... he has height and length.. he will need strength vs Warnock and Garza
So is Myles then.
If that’s the case, what level is Kofi and Garza?
Lodi and Garza are level 1. Oturu was level 1 because stopping Oturu is definitely part of opposition game plans. Myles, last year was a notch below, but improving.
I think the B1G has a ton of 5 talent. Probably best conference in the country.
Cliff will block shots, he will struggle a bit with fouls, he will be a hard matchup on transition offense, and he will be a beast on the offensive boards. So yeah he will definitely contribute a lot this year. We’re in better position at the 5 with Myles and Cliff then we were last year.
Even if he isn’t the great prodigy this season from what I have seen of him and heard from Pike lends me to believe it will only be a matter of time , continued hard work and patience until we see Cliff reach his athletic potential.
Consensus here doesn't mean much. 2 years ago, I predicted Doucoure was going to be a bust, and was attacked for it. I've spent the greater part of my life playing/coaching/studying this game. Cliff is going to have his struggles this year, but long term, we're good. He has "it".
Zappa brought that up already. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice that too. But I’m not reading much into it.
My answer is, too early to tell. Right at the moment; I have a hard time believing we are a legit top 25 team. I think missing Geo and Caleb are a big part of that. There seems to be a lack of certainty in the half court offense. The defense is nowhere near the level of last year and the missed free throws are a big concern. I don’t think we are showing all of our defensive sets so it’s probably too early to be this critical.
I’m hoping to see Paul become more assertive in scoring. I love his passing but he needs to also put the ball in the hoop and I know he can. Cliff is going to take time to figure things out. At his size; he should be able to post up but he hasn’t gotten positioned yet. He’s a completely different player compared to Garza and Cockburn so it’s not a good comparison. Cockburn is a wide body who can bully his way around the basket. Garza is also very strong and he can pop the three pointer as well. Cliff is not a shooter but he’s very athletic so I can see him posting and using his agility to get around defenders; plus he’s very fast on the break.
We need Geo back as I think he’s the glue. Young is very good this year but we need another guard who can shoot and open up spacing.
I’m hoping to see Paul become more assertive in scoring. I love his passing but he needs to also put the ball in the hoop and I know he can. Cliff is going to take time to figure things out. At his size; he should be able to post up but he hasn’t gotten positioned yet. He’s a completely different player compared to Garza and Cockburn so it’s not a good comparison. Cockburn is a wide body who can bully his way around the basket. Garza is also very strong and he can pop the three pointer as well. Cliff is not a shooter but he’s very athletic so I can see him posting and using his agility to get around defenders; plus he’s very fast on the break.
We need Geo back as I think he’s the glue. Young is very good this year but we need another guard who can shoot and open up spacing.
Cliff has NBA length and athleticism that’s why I see him giving players like Garza and Kofi fits. They will both play bully ball on the inside against Cliff but he’ll still be able to spring up with his length and jump to swat shots away.
It will take time for Cliff to develop into a complete player but his defense on the blocks will part of his game that will develop the quickest.
GO RU
It will take time for Cliff to develop into a complete player but his defense on the blocks will part of his game that will develop the quickest.
GO RU
Deferring to the second half? Seriously, I noticed it also, might be a initial slower jumper. I remember Herve won almost every opening tap, but he would cheat and never got called. Herve would use his one arm to block to the oppositions arm and he used his other hand to tap the ball.
Some people just have a knack for getting that ball at its Apex – – Rashod Kent only lost one or two opening tips his senior season. If CO does not have that knack, it won’t cost us more than one possession a game.
I am more concerned that he only has one block in around 60 minutes of floor time and hasn’t altered as many shots as I had hoped.
On the other hand, I am pleasantly surprised at how in sync he is with the guards on offense and how he gets himself available in good position to get those lobs.
His defensive rebounding has been really good too and his hands seem sure.
A lot of it is just timing... for both tipoffs and blocks. One thing freshmen bigs tend to fall into the trap of is going for blocks, but ending up with fouls - body control is always a big question mark for new centers. Cliff seems to have good body control and has avoided the fouls that can come with trying to do too much.
He's done a good job maintaining verticality close to the basket, increasing the difficulty of shots without fouling. He's also done a fair job at denying the ball into the post and cleaning the defensive glass. Hands have been pretty good, too, with a few steals and limited turnovers.
Hopefully as this season goes on and he gets more experience, confidence will build to the point where he's going for more blocks while still keeping fouls low. I'd also like to see some more production on the offensive glass.
Slow day on the hoops front if we're talking about the opening tip.
We are better positioned at the 5 slot than any year I can remember since I've been avidly following (since the fall of '89). I'm not worried about Cliff - on the other hand, no home cooking and Geo's injury has me a tad bit concerned.
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The play against Sacred Heart when he was on a full sprint caught the bounce pass and dunked tells me a lot. You don't see many 5s have the coordination to run the floor and finish like Cliff.
Zap worrying about Cliff making the right defensive rotations during B1G play against legit 5s is certainly valid. I worry about him (or any freshman) off the ball more than on the ball.
Zap worrying about Cliff making the right defensive rotations during B1G play against legit 5s is certainly valid. I worry about him (or any freshman) off the ball more than on the ball.
Cliff getting the defense is all mental
people forget how much we had issues guarding any center that pulled out center away from the basket.
Myles was good when pulled away when he didnot give cheap fouls
This was a big issue for carter ...go rewatch us play Wisconsin on the road if you needed evidence
cliff should be better on that ...the question is how fast does he learn the timing of the help rotations .
people forget how much we had issues guarding any center that pulled out center away from the basket.
Myles was good when pulled away when he didnot give cheap fouls
This was a big issue for carter ...go rewatch us play Wisconsin on the road if you needed evidence
cliff should be better on that ...the question is how fast does he learn the timing of the help rotations .
I thought they should have called a foul on Hofstra center before the tip. That early bump could easily have been intentional.
Our defense against 5's who can step out and shoot it should be much better with Cliff. It was definitely a weakness last season
We're not beating Iowa unless Ron, Jacob, and Geo combine for 50+. And you can pencil Garza in for 30+ against us. Doesn't matter if it's Cliff or Myles guarding him. That's not a knock on our guys. Garza is an amazing offensive talent.
Its not about stopping Garza but hopefully we can contain him. Cliff might be able to tire him out by sprinting the floor hard on each possession and making Garza sprint the floor to keep up. Possibly his athleticism can draw a foul or two or go to Myles in the post and make him work on the defensive end
Agreed! No one is stopping Garza but assuming Geo is back they'll have their hands full defending him, Ron, Jacob while Montez shuts down whichever guard of theirs is hot...it's not a gimme (nothing in the B1G is!) but I like our chances with them... Now, add in the 10 fouls we have to give at the 5 and I still like our chances...I'd take a split on the season at this point (like last year...)
the only thing that matters is cliff is better than Shaq. Which means that we upgraded and have much needed depth at the 5 spot. a luxury that not many teams have. Did Illinois and iowa blow us out last year? cockburn has 11 and 17 in a 3 point lose at their place, 10 and 10 in a 20 point win at our place. Garza had 28 and 13 in a 5 point lose at their. all three pretty good games by cockburn and garza.
if we play well. we can win both games. if we play well we can lose both games. no sense in worrying what cockburn and garza will do. it is up to our guys to set the tone.
if we play well. we can win both games. if we play well we can lose both games. no sense in worrying what cockburn and garza will do. it is up to our guys to set the tone.
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Iowa has been a poor defensive team.
it doesn’t matter who scores for us, what is important is that we score. We probably will be at our best when scoring is distributed across all 5 spots in the floor
Please let Garza dominate the ball and score 40+ points, especially in the 1st 35 minutes of the game. When we play a team like Iowa guys like Weiskamp scare me more.
I 100% disagree with this sentiment.
Iowa has been a poor defensive team.
it doesn’t matter who scores for us, what is important is that we score. We probably will be at our best when scoring is distributed across all 5 spots in the floor
Please let Garza dominate the ball and score 40+ points, especially in the 1st 35 minutes of the game. When we play a team like Iowa guys like Weiskamp scare me more.
I don’t understand this we can’t score thing
we are going to be able to start four guys who will average double figures and a two headed center that will combine for 12-13 ppg
we look like a team that will average 73-75 ppg
With balance and four different guys that on a given Night get 20
what do you guys want ?
jeez....
we are going to be able to start four guys who will average double figures and a two headed center that will combine for 12-13 ppg
we look like a team that will average 73-75 ppg
With balance and four different guys that on a given Night get 20
what do you guys want ?
jeez....