OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more

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RU848789

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Not sure where that tweet came from, but Trevor Bedford does not believe that SARS-CoV-2 was generated in a lab or released from a lab. His actual tweet from earlier today, citing two journal articles talking about the natural evolution of the virus over 40-50 years ago, is his position.

The Relman article is interesting and its main point is we truly need to definitively nail down the origin of this virus, which I agree with, since that will help us prepare better for the next pandemic. He also makes it clear that an "engineered" origin is much less likely and most experts I've read say that much more strongly, as per several previous posts of mine.



In addition, he shares compelling evidence that the studies in Italy showing the virus there in the fall could easily be explained by cross-reactivity and that they did not share actual genomic viral strains, plus in his own work in the Seattle area, they showed no COVID in saved flu samples from January in that area. The upshot is it's still very likely that the pandemic started very slowly in January in the US and accelerated rapidly in February and March.

https://twitter.com/trvrb?lang=en
 
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RU848789

Heisman
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Will respectfully disagree here. For some odd reason, certain people either purposefully because of bias, unwittingly or stupidly did not properly analyze data and understand the benefits of HCQ in certain situations. Very surprised at how closed-minded you are about this, and this will be my last post debating you on this.
Not close minded at all, but when the science is blindlingly obvious, it's hard to keep arguing with people who either don't understand the science or are arguing from a political or other perspective (remember, I was one of the first people to post about HCQ here and was excited about it for a couple of days, until seeing it being pushed like snake oil by Rigano, Todaro et al and then you know who and seeing what other clinicians had to say about Raoult's poorly run study). Show me well run randomized controlled clinical trials that show HCQ being beneficial and I'll reconsider.

The best RCTs were the RECOVERY trial in the UK, an RCT which showed no benefit from HCQ in moderate to severely ill patients in hospitals, and the Mitja study, an RCT which showed no benefit from HCQ in post-exposure patients (as did the Boulware RCT on the same and before exposure). The observational trials have been all over the place, as often happens for an ineffective drug with poorly controlled patient populations. You might also want to read the Wired piece on the whole sordid HCQ history - it's not pretty. I also don't think rehashing HCQ is helpful to this thread, so hopefully that's my last post on it for awhile.

 

RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
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Not sure where that tweet came from, but Trevor Bedford does not believe that SARS-CoV-2 was generated in a lab or released from a lab. His actual tweet from earlier today, citing two journal articles talking about the natural evolution of the virus over 40-50 years ago, is his position.

The Relman article is interesting and its main point is we truly need to definitively nail down the origin of this virus, which I agree with, since that will help us prepare better for the next pandemic. He also makes it clear that an "engineered" origin is much less likely and most experts I've read say that much more strongly, as per several previous posts of mine.



In addition, he shares compelling evidence that the studies in Italy showing the virus there in the fall could easily be explained by cross-reactivity and that they did not share actual genomic viral strains, plus in his own work in the Seattle area, they showed no COVID in saved flu samples from January in that area. The upshot is it's still very likely that the pandemic started very slowly in January in the US and accelerated rapidly in February and March.

https://twitter.com/trvrb?lang=en


Two people I know who work for major pharmaceuticals and have mid to high level positions with their organizations both feel with 100% certainty that the virus was man made.
 

NickKnight 1

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Anyone dismissing that possibility is simply foolish.
Those bats were co-habitant in china for a thousand years. So from the beginning
I thought, why all of a sudden do we get this plague. so someone must have caused it.
 

thegock

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From the WSJ Tuesday about the early spread in the US:


The new coronavirus infected people in the U.S. in mid-December 2019, a few weeks before it was officially identified in China and about a month earlier than public health authorities found the first U.S. case, according to a government study published Monday.

The findings significantly strengthen evidence suggesting the virus was spreading around the world well before public health authorities and researchers became aware, upending initial thinking about how early and quickly it emerged.

Scientists at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found evidence of infection in 106 of 7,389 blood donations collected by the American Red Cross from residents in nine states across the U.S., according to the study published online in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases.


The scientists based their study on blood samples that the American Red Cross collected between Dec. 13 and Jan. 17 and later sent to the CDC for testing to see if any had antibodies to the new coronavirus, which is named SARS-CoV-2.

“SARS-CoV-2 infections may have been present in the U.S. in December 2019, earlier than previously recognized,” the authors wrote.
A person’s immune system develops antibodies when exposed to a pathogen like a virus to fight it off. Their presence suggests exposure to a virus.
In analyzing the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state collected between Dec. 13 and Dec. 16.
The findings suggest there were isolated cases of coronavirus infection on the U.S. West Coast in mid-December, the scientists wrote.
They also found 67 samples with antibodies in Massachusetts, Michigan, Wisconsin or Iowa, and Connecticut or Rhode Island collected between Dec. 30 and Jan. 17.

Those findings indicated that cases were more dispersed—yet still isolated—by early this year.


Health experts say having a vaccine is just one front in a two-front battle against Covid-19. The other is effective treatments for those who are already sick with the disease. WSJ breaks down the three most promising types in development. Photo Illustration: Jacob Reynolds/WSJ
The scientists said they ruled out the possibility that the antibodies they found had developed to fight off other coronaviruses, which cause the common cold. They did that by looking for antibodies specific to the new coronavirus in 90 of the samples.
They said they found antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2 in 84 of the samples, or nearly all of them.
The results add to growing evidence suggesting Covid-19 was present outside of China earlier than previously known. Researchers found the virus, for example, in a retrospective analysis of a specimen from a patient who was hospitalized in France on Dec. 27, 2019.
The first Covid-19 case in the U.S. was reported on Jan. 19, two days after testing for the virus began there, the CDC researchers said. A young man returning from China a few days earlier suspected he might have the disease and sought care for his symptoms.
Two other people who were subsequently diagnosed in the U.S. also developed symptoms in mid-January.

Earlier studies have also suggested that Covid-19 had moved beyond just isolated cases and was spreading in communities in the U.S. by mid- to late-January, though epidemiologists say that the virus likely didn’t circulate widely in communities until later in February.
The new study shows the value of screening routinely collected blood samples for evidence of viruses spreading in a population, the CDC authors said, adding that the agency is continuing to conduct surveillance for Covid-19 this way.
Not only did Covid-19 likely appear in the U.S. earlier than previously known, but researchers have found evidence that the virus is far more widespread in the U.S. than testing indicates.
Some 53 million people in the U.S. likely had contracted Covid-19 by the end of September, according to a modeling estimate published last week by CDC researchers. Roughly 6.9 million infections had been confirmed within that time period, suggesting that roughly one in every eight cases was identified.
Yet, the majority of the U.S. population hasn’t been infected. On Nov. 24, a CDC study published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine estimated that fewer than 1% to 23% of people in the U.S. had antibodies, depending on the location.
Write to Betsy McKay at [email protected]
 
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King of S

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With so many cases already (+54 million) and the vaccine now rolling out, herd immunity will be reached sooner than later.
 
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FastMJ

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With so many cases already (+54 million) and the vaccine now rolling out, herd immunity will be reached sooner than later.
Scott Gottlieb stated in an interview today that by Spring, we will likely have something approaching 30% of the population having been infected in many parts of the country. I don't think herd immunity is a binary concept. It won't stop the pandemic, but the increasing percentage of exposure among the population will certainly have a modulating impact on the rate of spread and contribute to the eventual end of the pandemic (my conclusion).
 

Scarletnut

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Question for @numbers. What happens if someone is infected after the first vaccination but before the second vaccination? And does it preclude going ahead and getting the second vaccination?
 

pmvon

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Two people I know who work for major pharmaceuticals and have mid to high level positions with their organizations both feel with 100% certainty that the virus was man made.


Well that settles it then. You know two people.

Amazing to me the conspiracy theories bandied about on this site and infecting every aspect of American society today. Real shame people are this gullible. I think it’s not out of the question that this came from a lab but there isn’t corroborating evidence from this government or any other government in the world. Amazing what people choose to believe.
 

RUBOB72

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Well that settles it then. You know two people.

Amazing to me the conspiracy theories bandied about on this site and infecting every aspect of American society today. Real shame people are this gullible. I think it’s not out of the question that this came from a lab but there isn’t corroborating evidence from this government or any other government in the world. Amazing what people choose to believe.
Sure the site is the thing that has been infecting our society ? Gullible is one thing making a dumb *** statement about who is the problem in the USA... you realize how stupid you are even putting that out there... you just don’t like difference of opinion and those who don’t bow down in front of you.
 
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RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
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Well that settles it then. You know two people.

Amazing to me the conspiracy theories bandied about on this site and infecting every aspect of American society today. Real shame people are this gullible. I think it’s not out of the question that this came from a lab but there isn’t corroborating evidence from this government or any other government in the world. Amazing what people choose to believe.

Dude,

You're a funny guy. Looks like you are good at being an idiot.

How about one of them is a lifelong friend who works in the field and is very knowledgable about infectious diseases? Him and many of his colleagues believe covid was created in a lab. And he is not a conspiracy theorist and is very conservative. He tells me the virus has too many traits of being manipulated by man and can't be natural.
 

fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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Sure the site is the thing that has been infecting our society ? Gullible is one thing making a dumb *** statement about who is the problem in the USA... you realize how stupid you are even putting that out there... you just don’t like difference of opinion and those who don’t bow down in front of you.

No, he was right.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
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Well that settles it then. You know two people.

Amazing to me the conspiracy theories bandied about on this site and infecting every aspect of American society today. Real shame people are this gullible. I think it’s not out of the question that this came from a lab but there isn’t corroborating evidence from this government or any other government in the world. Amazing what people choose to believe.
Corroborating evidence from any government?? Talk about gullible!
 
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bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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Biden says another 200K dead between now and January...lmfao

if he means end of January thats 4K dead every day

if he means between now and January thats 8k dead every day

either way he is wrong but I dont expect anyone to push back on whatever science he is grabbing from
 

Frida's Boss

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Sure the site is the thing that has been infecting our society ? Gullible is one thing making a dumb *** statement about who is the problem in the USA... you realize how stupid you are even putting that out there... you just don’t like difference of opinion and those who don’t bow down in front of you.

He didn’t say this site is infecting our society. He remarked that conspiracy theories are bandied about on this site, and conspiracy theories are infecting every aspect of our society. Not a surprise that you can’t understand a basic sentence, and then compound that embarrassment by further embarrassing yourself.
 

FastMJ

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Biden says another 200K dead between now and January...lmfao

if he means end of January thats 4K dead every day

if he means between now and January thats 8k dead every day

either way he is wrong but I dont expect anyone to push back on whatever science he is grabbing from
3300 per day according to my calc. We’re already way over 2k per day and the number is going up. So yeah he could be right unfortunately
 
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Frida's Boss

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Biden says another 200K dead between now and January...lmfao

if he means end of January thats 4K dead every day

if he means between now and January thats 8k dead every day

either way he is wrong but I dont expect anyone to push back on whatever science he is grabbing from

Seems he is using statements made by the head of the CDC.

“We’re in that range potentially now, starting to see 1,500 to 2,000 to 2,500 deaths a day from this virus,” Dr. Redfield said. “The mortality concerns are real, and I do think, unfortunately, before we see February, we could be close to 450,000 Americans” dead from the virus.

 
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bac2therac

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he said 200K deaths between now and January um no...and even if you give him the benefit of the doubt til the end of January no...if we have 2K deaths a day for 2 months that would be 60K...and saying that there will be 2k deaths a day is a pure guess anyhow, we have a spike now of 2700 but there is no guarantee that is happening everyday

stop making excuses

Redfeld seems absurd as well. Thats 180K more deaths where are they coming from...its fear mongering and it should not exist, we had enough of that for 6 months
 

Frida's Boss

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he said 200K deaths between now and January um no...and even if you give him the benefit of the doubt til the end of January no...if we have 2K deaths a day for 2 months that would be 60K...and saying that there will be 2k deaths a day is a pure guess anyhow, we have a spike now of 2700 but there is no guarantee that is happening everyday

stop making excuses

Redfeld seems absurd as well. Thats 180K more deaths where are they coming from...its fear mongering and it should not exist, we had enough of that for 6 months

The projected increase in deaths are coming from the dramatic increase in COVID cases along with an expected increase from these record levels owing to travel over Thanksgiving,
 
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Frida's Boss

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we have 280K so called deaths in 9 months...he is calling for 250K in possibly one or two months..lmfao

That’s because the number of cases are far higher than at anytime in the past and expected to increase from these levels due to Thanksgiving travel. We are now at 100,000 hospitalizations, a record as well, and that number figures to climb as well. So, yes, stunning as it may seem, we may see a number of new COVID deaths equal to 70% or more of the US COVID deaths to date. It’s tragic, because many of these had been preventable.
 

FastMJ

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That’s because the number of cases are far higher than at anytime in the past and expected to increase from these levels due to Thanksgiving travel. We are now at 100,000 hospitalizations, a record as well, and that number figures to climb as well. So, yes, stunning as it may seem, we may see a number of new COVID deaths equal to 70% or more of the US COVID deaths to date. It’s tragic, because many of these had been preventable.
There you go using facts and logic!
 

thegock

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he said 200K deaths between now and January um no...and even if you give him the benefit of the doubt til the end of January no...if we have 2K deaths a day for 2 months that would be 60K...and saying that there will be 2k deaths a day is a pure guess anyhow, we have a spike now of 2700 but there is no guarantee that is happening everyday

stop making excuses

Two months times 31 days per month would be 62 days, right?

62 days time 2,000 equals 124,000 deaths. not 60K, right?

2,700 is not a spike, but a data point on an exponential curve.

Redo your math about how deaths lag cases, exponential growth, and get bac to me.
 

RUBOB72

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He didn’t say this site is infecting our society. He remarked that conspiracy theories are bandied about on this site, and conspiracy theories are infecting every aspect of our society. Not a surprise that you can’t understand a basic sentence, and then compound that embarrassment by further embarrassing yourself.
Are you that dense? We know exactly what he meant. The insinuation that those on this board who don’t agree with the with stupidity being pushed then infects the board. I can’t believe you don’t realize your bias is so blatant. Typical liberal BS.
 
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Frida's Boss

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Are you that dense? We know exactly what he meant. The insinuation that those on this board who don’t agree with the with stupidity being pushed then infects the board. I can’t believe you don’t realize your bias is so blatant. Typical liberal BS.

No, his sentence was very clear. Its meaning was easy to understand for those who have a rudimentary grasp of written English. You, lacking such a rudimentary understanding and shrouded in the bias you hypocritically denounce, once again reveal your numerous shortcomings. Typically, I let intellectual shortcomings such as yours slide, but you’re such an arrogant blow hard that they must be called out.
 

bac2therac

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Two months times 31 days per month would be 62 days, right?

62 days time 2,000 equals 124,000 deaths. not 60K, right?

2,700 is not a spike, but a data point on an exponential curve.

Redo your math about how deaths lag cases, exponential growth, and get bac to me.


he said 250K
 
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bac2therac

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That’s because the number of cases are far higher than at anytime in the past and expected to increase from these levels due to Thanksgiving travel. We are now at 100,000 hospitalizations, a record as well, and that number figures to climb as well. So, yes, stunning as it may seem, we may see a number of new COVID deaths equal to 70% or more of the US COVID deaths to date. It’s tragic, because many of these had been preventable.


fear mongering

and guess what California imposed their most severe restrictions 2 weeks ago yet today are recording all time highs

yeah I know keep telling us two weeks so you can tell us two weeks after that.
 
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bac2therac

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That’s because the number of cases are far higher than at anytime in the past and expected to increase from these levels due to Thanksgiving travel. We are now at 100,000 hospitalizations, a record as well, and that number figures to climb as well. So, yes, stunning as it may seem, we may see a number of new COVID deaths equal to 70% or more of the US COVID deaths to date. It’s tragic, because many of these had been preventable.


they are only so high because we are testing at a ridiculous rate compared to the spring
 

RUBOB72

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No, his sentence was very clear. Its meaning was easy to understand for those who have a rudimentary grasp of written English. You, lacking such a rudimentary understanding and shrouded in the bias you hypocritically denounce, once again reveal your numerous shortcomings. Typically, I let intellectual shortcomings such as yours slide, but you’re such an arrogant blow hard that they must be called out.
Typical liberal elitist mentality. We all have shortcomings... your inability to respect the viewpoint of others proves exactly why in the end your ilk will eventually overestimate and fail. See you talk a great deal of smack but I will temper my words... Believe me you would not talk that way to my face... that is not from a so called blowhard to a sports board douchebag.
 

bac2therac

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That is false. You can look at the record number of hospitalizations as evidence of that falsehood.


you know what else is a falsehood.....250K more deaths in 29 days, we are running 11K behind Biden's pace and we are just 2 days into the month
 
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Caliknight

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Typical liberal elitist mentality. We all have shortcomings... your inability to respect the viewpoint of others proves exactly why in the end your ilk will eventually overestimate and fail. See you talk a great deal of smack but I will temper my words... Believe me you would not talk that way to my face... that is not from a so called blowhard to a sports board douchebag.

R O A S T E D
 
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