Luka Garza Declares for Draft

Apr 8, 2002
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Cliff scored 3 points in the Union County Final------6 points against Manasquan with their Big Kid out for the game.

Yet you want to compare him to a guy who was 2nd in the Wooden Award ?

Hey I hope he's a helluva player here but if you've ever seen him play he's all about potential.

Not even near ready offensively
Two points I want to make:

1) how many big men receive quality coaching in HS especially at the 4 and 5 positions? Very few and that's one reason why it takes them longer to develop. One thing Cliff has over Haarms is athletic ability and his defensive skills are better.

2) scoring points isn't the only way to measure a player's true value in the way he impacts the game. I'll pass on a guy who shoots 20 times to score 20 points. I'll take a guy who gives me 4 points but is a monster on defense. He'll change shots, or blocks them, rebounds and allows the perimeter defenders to play aggressively which could reduce the number of possessions for the other team. Rutgers has enough guys who can score when a play is called them.

Can't everyone be a scorer. There may be 5 guys on the court, but only 1 ball. I guess Mulcahy is a waste since he's not a pure scorer
 

Pancho1939_rivals

All-Conference
Jun 26, 2012
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Two points I want to make:

1) how many big men receive quality coaching in HS especially at the 4 and 5 positions? Very few and that's one reason why it takes them longer to develop. One thing Cliff has over Haarms is athletic ability and his defensive skills are better.

2) scoring points isn't the only way to measure a player's true value in the way he impacts the game. I'll pass on a guy who shoots 20 times to score 20 points. I'll take a guy who gives me 4 points but is a monster on defense. He'll change shots, or blocks them, rebounds and allows the perimeter defenders to play aggressively which could reduce the number of possessions for the other team. Rutgers has enough guys who can score when a play is called them.

Can't everyone be a scorer. There may be 5 guys on the court, but only 1 ball. I guess Mulcahy is a waste since he's not a pure scorer

haarms is 4th all time at Purdue In blocks over a 3 year span... cliff may be more athletics but to say he is better defensively still needs to be proven
 
Apr 8, 2002
15,537
26,791
113
haarms is 4th all time at Purdue In blocks over a 3 year span... cliff may be more athletics but to say he is better defensively still needs to be proven
Haarms stats are due to longevity and also not being the focal point of the team. As for Cliff, he's rated as high for a reason. Clearly, you don't have bullets to win the fight but you soldier on. For that, I give you props.
 
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Pancho1939_rivals

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Bullets? You are acting like cliff is the second coming of Jesus. Khalil Whitney was better coming out of Roselle average 3 points a game at Kentucky, Isaiah Briscoe better than cliff out of Roselle was a good two year player at Kentucky and went Undrafted, naz reid better than cliff at Roselle had a good year at LSU went undrafted, Tyler Roberson better than cliff at Roselle good career at Syracuse went Undrafted.....

The list goes on of guys that were ranked higher by the scouting services and go onto have ok careers in college and go undrafted...

I hope cliff is great and exceeds all expectations but to think year one he will be blowing away the big 10 is a little much..

only time will tell.
 
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RU_Travesty

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Bullets? You are acting like cliff is the second coming of Jesus. Khalil Whitney was better coming out of Roselle average 3 points a game at Kentucky, Isaiah Briscoe better than cliff out of Roselle was a good two year player at Kentucky and went Undrafted, naz reid better than cliff at Roselle had a good year at LSU went undrafted, Tyler Roberson better than cliff at Roselle good career at Syracuse went Undrafted.....

The list goes on of guys that were ranked higher by the scouting services and go onto have ok careers in college and go undrafted...

I hope cliff is great and exceeds all expectations but to think year one he will be blowing away the big 10 is a little much..

only time will tell.
Those kids all played basketball their entire lives. Cliff started playing 3 years ago. Totally different situation
 
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Pancho1939_rivals

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Those kids all played basketball their entire lives. Cliff started playing 3 years ago. Totally different situation

so you think that year 1 a player who has played for 3 years will be better than players who played their entire lives? It will take cliff a couple years...
 
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RU_Travesty

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Oct 24, 2012
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so you think that year 1 a player who has played for 3 years will be better than players who played their entire lives? It will take cliff a couple years...
He def won't be better year 1 but I think he will eventually. None of those guys have the measurables of Cliff
 
Apr 8, 2002
15,537
26,791
113
Bullets? You are acting like cliff is the second coming of Jesus. Khalil Whitney was better coming out of Roselle average 3 points a game at Kentucky, Isaiah Briscoe better than cliff out of Roselle was a good two year player at Kentucky and went Undrafted, naz reid better than cliff at Roselle had a good year at LSU went undrafted, Tyler Roberson better than cliff at Roselle good career at Syracuse went Undrafted.....

The list goes on of guys that were ranked higher by the scouting services and go onto have ok careers in college and go undrafted...

I hope cliff is great and exceeds all expectations but to think year one he will be blowing away the big 10 is a little much..

only time will tell.
Never said Cliff was the second coming of Jesus, but based on his potential Cliff's ceiling is higher than Haarms. Why is it you continue to change the POV when you don't have an answer? First, it was Haarms played for Purdue which was an elite 8 teams. You were dismissed by a few posters as that wasn't a valid reason for him to come to Rutgers. Next, you talked about his stats. Again, when it was pointed out they decreased every year at Purdue, so you moved on to another angle. Which leads us to now. Cliff isn't the second coming of Jesus.

The bottom line, you really don't understand college sports on any level. Once you grasp that aspect of things, then you'll start to learn each situation is different. You can't take one example and copy and paste it to another. Haarms doesn't fit Rutger's' style or culture. Cliff doesn't have to be like the others you've mentioned. Cliff's importance to the program is a cultural thing, local kids stay home and win. Whatever he gives Rutgers this year is gravy. For now, Cliff only has fit in with his Rutgers teammates. Those Roselle players you've mentioned ran to the spotlight and found out "me first" doesn't translate well at breeding schools especially early in your career.
 

TDIrish27

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2001
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Two points I want to make:

1) how many big men receive quality coaching in HS especially at the 4 and 5 positions? Very few and that's one reason why it takes them longer to develop. One thing Cliff has over Haarms is athletic ability and his defensive skills are better.

2) scoring points isn't the only way to measure a player's true value in the way he impacts the game. I'll pass on a guy who shoots 20 times to score 20 points. I'll take a guy who gives me 4 points but is a monster on defense. He'll change shots, or blocks them, rebounds and allows the perimeter defenders to play aggressively which could reduce the number of possessions for the other team. Rutgers has enough guys who can score when a play is called them.

Can't everyone be a scorer. There may be 5 guys on the court, but only 1 ball. I guess Mulcahy is a waste since he's not a pure scorer

Please stop

The Garza kid is a 1st Team AA and you would rather have a HS kid ?

Respectfully Doug you don't know if the ball has air or feathers in it
 
Apr 8, 2002
15,537
26,791
113
Please stop

The Garza kid is a 1st Team AA and you would rather have a HS kid ?

Respectfully Doug you don't know if the ball has air or feathers in it
If you're going to "get at me bro" we should at least be debating the same subject. :Laughing
I was talking about Haarms and Omoruyi with Pancho.
 
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satnom

All-American
Jun 28, 2002
6,986
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The real pro prospect on Iowa roster is Weiskamp. Athletic, long, can score and play D. As others have posted Garza will be exposed on an NBA floor.

Love Cliff’s potential but has lots to prove. I believe his defensive game will shine year one but his offensive game will take time. Immediate upgrade from Shaq Carter. Look forward to seeing Cliff play and measuring himself against BIG talent.

GO RU
 
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Mr. Magoo1

Heisman
Nov 15, 2001
15,478
16,327
113
The real pro prospect on Iowa roster is Weiskamp. Athletic, long, can score and play D. As others have posted Garza will be exposed on an NBA floor.

Love Cliff’s potential but has lots to prove. I believe his defensive game will shine year one but his offensive game will take time. Immediate upgrade from Shaq Carter. Look forward to seeing Cliff play and measuring himself against BIG talent.

GO RU

The key is that, as you’ve said, he’s an upgrade over Carter. I liked Carter as a backup but the team was much weaker when he replaced Johnson.
 

AshCatchEm

Heisman
Jan 8, 2016
13,891
19,936
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haarms is 4th all time at Purdue In blocks over a 3 year span... cliff may be more athletics but to say he is better defensively still needs to be proven
If every program in the nation were given a choice between Cliff and haarms, I'd assume 99% would choose Cliff.

And did Whitney have a 7'5 wingspan? That's basically the same wingspan as haarms.
 
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FELONIOUSMONK

All-American
Apr 1, 2012
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They will have everyone back if he stays and a very talented athletic incoming class. I think the coach realizes he needs athletes to get them over the hump in the future .
 

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,283
15,979
73
Bullets? You are acting like cliff is the second coming of Jesus. Khalil Whitney was better coming out of Roselle average 3 points a game at Kentucky, Isaiah Briscoe better than cliff out of Roselle was a good two year player at Kentucky and went Undrafted, naz reid better than cliff at Roselle had a good year at LSU went undrafted, Tyler Roberson better than cliff at Roselle good career at Syracuse went Undrafted.....

The list goes on of guys that were ranked higher by the scouting services and go onto have ok careers in college and go undrafted...

I hope cliff is great and exceeds all expectations but to think year one he will be blowing away the big 10 is a little much..

only time will tell.

fair points for sure...

I have been saying that people need to realize that cliff isn’t walking in and getting a double double ...and most people know he is a 5 -4 guy next year in 18 minutes...and people need to not label him as “disappointing l” if that is what he gets

If he finds the court for more than that ... means he is better than Johnson to take minutes from him ...and as pike says “I play the best and am fair to the rest “...

I see cliff as a four year guy ...and can see his numbers growing every year. By the time he is a junior, if is game develops, he could be a legit 11 and 9 guy in 27 minutes ...and there are very few low post centers that get more than those numbers in this day and age
 

satnom

All-American
Jun 28, 2002
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fair points for sure...

I have been saying that people need to realize that cliff isn’t walking in and getting a double double ...and most people know he is a 5 -4 guy next year in 18 minutes...and people need to not label him as “disappointing l” if that is what he gets

If he finds the court for more than that ... means he is better than Johnson to take minutes from him ...and as pike says “I play the best and am fair to the rest “...

I see cliff as a four year guy ...and can see his numbers growing every year. By the time he is a junior, if is game develops, he could be a legit 11 and 9 guy in 27 minutes ...and there are very few low post centers that get more than those numbers in this day and age
Shack, agree with all except if Cliff puts up 12-15ppg with 9-10rpg by Junior year in my opinion he’s NBA Bound.

Agree on tempering expectations year one. Cliff just needs to be as good or better than Shaq in year 4 which I believe Cliff will be.

GO RU
 

NightKnight

All-Conference
Jul 21, 2008
3,221
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How does Garzas game compare to Kevin Love's?
Kevin Love is a complete basketball player. In his prime, one of the top 20 players in the NBA. Garza just has to get up and back, play his roll under the basket and add some more muscle to be able to rebound in the NBA. For sure I see him as worth a mid to late second round pick. Where he goes will determine whether he thrives, so it wouldn't be the worst thing if he was a FA and able to pick his own spot.