More Iowa Ref Sucks Proof

[RUsojo]

This is a thread that @bac2therac and others might want to stay out of.

This season Rutgers averaged giving up 24 opponent free throws per 100 opponent field goal attempts. Good for 27th best in the country.

Against Iowa?

25 free throws through only 55 field goal attempts! That’s not slight variance. That’s nearly double the normal output.

Insanity

 

[bac2therac]

we also gave up 85 points, which is 25 points above our average

 

[bethlehemfan]

I think iowa goes to the line more than anyone else so that’s probably a factor. They have great spacing and drive to the hoop.

 

[RUsojo]

I think iowa goes to the line more than anyone else so that’s probably a factor. They have great spacing and drive to the hoop.

No their free throw rate is 118th in the country and that includes the outsized output against Rutgers.

 

[RUChoppin]

Can't use stats like that, imo - some crews will have tighter whistles than other crews, game to game, and different teams play with different styles.

The officiating component of this game, to me, was that there was such a dramatic shift in how the game was called from the first half to the second - not bias whistle to whistle.

 

[RUChoppin]

No their free throw rate is 118th in the country and that includes the outsized output against Rutgers.

Iowa FTs...

32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... SIUE
32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... DePaul
30 FTs vs. 50 FGA... Cincy (N)
30 FTs vs. 53 FGA... Michigan
29 FTs vs. 57 FGA... Cal Poly
26 FTs vs. 68 FGA... Oral Roberts
25 FTs vs. 55 FGA... Rutgers (including 4 FTs in the last 0:16 as we needed to stop the clock)

We're hardly unique - Iowa draws a lot of fouls.

 

[RUsojo]

Iowa FTs...

32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... SIUE
32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... DePaul
30 FTs vs. 50 FGA... Cincy (N)
30 FTs vs. 53 FGA... Michigan
29 FTs vs. 57 FGA... Cal Poly
26 FTs vs. 68 FGA... Oral Roberts
25 FTs vs. 55 FGA... Rutgers (including 4 FTs in the last 0:16 as we needed to stop the clock)

We're hardly unique - Iowa draws a lot of fouls.

Iowa FTs...

32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... SIUE (308th Def FTR)
32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... DePaul (260th Def FTR)
30 FTs vs. 50 FGA.. Cincy (N) (137th Def FTR)
30 FTs vs. 53 FGA... Michigan (92nd Def FTR)
29 FTs vs. 57 FGA... Cal Poly (307th Def FTR)
26 FTs vs. 68 FGA...Oral Rob (110th Def FTR)
25 FTs vs. 55 FGA... Rutgers (*36th Def FTR)

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Bac is the refs don't matter side of the room....i am not aligned with that thinking.

A team is asked to play closer to perfect basketball to offset a refs whistle. So bac may point out what RU didn't do right, while ignoring how Iowa won, despite 2 5 second violations and a thrown away pass that led to a 3 point play in the final 3 minutes.

The calls made in the 2nd half put them into the bonus sooner than it should have. In any event, RU was impressive and competitive despite an unfriendly or perhaps "eh" whistle on the road.

I am not as concerned about it, since I am more convinced RU still has upside for this season, while many programs do not. So while winning either Iowa or Illinois would have been great, both games may turn out to be 2 of the toughest spots to win on the road in the B1G.....mix that with a road game at MSU, we've played 3 of 4 road games against Top 4 teams in the B1G.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

They played a bit of zone.
We didn't get the ball in low post
We attempted more 3s than normal

 

[RUChoppin]

Iowa FTs...

32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... SIUE (308th Def FTR)
32 FTs vs. 56 FGA... DePaul (260th Def FTR)
30 FTs vs. 50 FGA.. Cincy (N) (137th Def FTR)
30 FTs vs. 53 FGA... Michigan (92nd Def FTR)
29 FTs vs. 57 FGA... Cal Poly (307th Def FTR)
26 FTs vs. 68 FGA...Oral Rob (110th Def FTR)
25 FTs vs. 55 FGA... Rutgers (*36th Def FTR)

But Def FTR is also skewed when a team is forced to commit fouls to stop the clock at the end of regulation - and we haven't often been in a position where we needed to do that this year, so our Def FTR would be better because of that. There were 21 FTs on 55 FGA before we started fouling.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

These are high quality officials. They will make mistakes. They may coordinatedly increase the amount of whistles. They aren't out to get us. It will even out over time.

BAC hates excuses (as do I).

 

[richthedentist]

You can’t go purely by the number of foul shots but when and how many were called in the the first five minutes of the second half. That changed the whole game plain and simple.
Also realize they didn’t have a field goal for over 8 minutes in the second half and only scored from the line in that time frame

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Was Fran right about the fouls by Iowa at end of 1H...ABSOLUTELY
Was Harper Jr pushed out of bounds....NO HUGE BAIL OUT

 

[RUChoppin]

Did this really need a new thread?

 

[RUsojo]

Bac is the refs don't matter side of the room....i am not aligned with that thinking.

A team is asked to play closer to perfect basketball to offset a refs whistle. So bac may point out what RU didn't do right, while ignoring how Iowa won, despite 2 5 second violations and a thrown away pass that led to a 3 point play in the final 3 minutes.

The calls made in the 2nd half put them into the bonus sooner than it should have. In any event, RU was impressive and competitive despite an unfriendly or perhaps "eh" whistle on the road.

I am not as concerned about it, since I am more convinced RU still has upside for this season, while many programs do not. So while winning either Iowa or Illinois would have been great, both games may turn out to be 2 of the toughest spots to win on the road in the B1G.....mix that with a road game at MSU, we've played 3 of 4 road games against Top 4 teams in the B1G.

Sorry @NewJerseyHawk my mistake was thinking of someone else can’t put my finger on it maybe it was roctherac

 

[zebnatto]

Whistles early in the half are huge—they dictate sixteen minutes of play.

 

[RUsojo]

But Def FTR is also skewed when a team is forced to commit fouls to stop the clock at the end of regulation - and we haven't often been in a position where we needed to do that this year, so our Def FTR would be better because of that. There were 21 FTs on 55 FGA before we started fouling.

Yeah this is true. Stats are aggregated but it’s the most empirical data we have. I could say the same thing about Iowa taking more FTs per game because they have been winning games against weaker comp and have been in a similar situation. Or that we take less FTs because we are not winning tight games we are blowing teams out Etc.

Really can’t believe people are making excuses for a irregularly officiated game. It happens, yes. But scrutiny isn’t unwarranted.

Like Hawk says, in the end we will be fine because we’re the real deal just sucks that being ranked around 18th was stolen from us.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Iowa got home town cookin' from the refs--but we still shoulda/coulda/woulda pulled out the W with just average offensive production from our combo G brigade, can't have Baker, Young and McConnell going 4-18 from the floor. And I can't remember the last time Caleb blew 2 straight FT's to boot...

 

[RUsojo]

Was Fran right about the fouls by Iowa at end of 1H...ABSOLUTELY
Was Harper Jr pushed out of bounds....NO HUGE BAIL OUT

I actually saw that play as Harper was absolutely fouled ref swallowed the whistle leaving Harper f*cked and had to try to sell it or be forced out of bounds and that’s exactly what the ref saw imo as he blew the whistle in the end.

 

[Scangg]

Whistles early in the half are huge—they dictate sixteen minutes of play.

Yup. Bac doesn't get it

 

[RUChoppin]

This also isn't the highest # of FTAs per FGAs we've seen, either.

27 FTA vs. 55 FGA (.491) - @MSU.... 4 FTAs attempted in the final minute as we tried to stop the clock, otherwise 23 in 55 (.418)
26 FTA vs. 55 FGA (.473) - @Iowa... 4 FTAs attempted in the final minute as we tried to stop the clock, otherwise 22 in 55 (.400)
24 FTA vs. 51 FGA (.471) - SFA
21 FTA vs. 55 FGA (.382) - Caldwell
16 FTA vs. 48 FGA (.333) - Wisconsin

 

[RUChoppin]

Yeah this is true. Stats are aggregated but it’s the most empirical data we have. I could say the same thing about Iowa taking more FTs per game because they have been winning games against weaker comp and have been in a similar situation. Or that we take less FTs because we are not winning tight games we are blowing teams out Etc.

Really can’t believe people are making excuses for a irregularly officiated game. It happens, yes. But scrutiny isn’t unwarranted.

Like Hawk says, in the end we will be fine because we’re the real deal just sucks that being ranked around 18th was stolen from us.

But it was irregular not in that it was especially tight vs. loose, or even biased one way or the other... but because there was little consistency of officiating within the same contest.

 

[RUsojo]

But it was irregular not in that it was especially tight vs. loose, or even biased one way or the other... but because there was little consistency of officiating within the same contest.

It’s not often a big ten network broadcaster openly criticized officiating against Rutgers multiple times in the same broadcast.

 

[fbc1866]

We might can argue the refs allowed them in the game the second half. After the technical foul before the half, their style change and we didn't adjust to it. But, the final three minutes they called a fair game. The layup that Young missed, they had no part it it, or the rebound the Harper misplayed. Just a couple of tough breaks. I'm so proud of this team, I have not forgot the pain of 4 years ago.

 

[RUTBAY1]

Not a bad thing to learn how to work a game where the whistles come quickly or where we have to adjust our style of play on the fly. When we get to the tourney it will be helpful for us because it will not be a B1G crew and we will get called tighter than in conference.

 

[G- RUnit]

We held them scoreless for seven minutes from the field and they scored 85 points. That is damning. Yes we could have won but with due deference to BAC, the refs were by far the biggest factor in the game and it does not always even out. As a newbie, we have had more than our fair share of dubious called games by the refs.

 

[RU MAN]

They played a bit of zone.
We didn't get the ball in low post
We attempted more 3s than normal

True. But we still scored 80 points against that zone! How effective was it really? To me, it wasn't. What hurt us was the way the game was called at the beginning of the 2nd half. Iowa got into the bonus right away and the things that weren't called against us in the first half were suddenly being called in the second half. It really hurt us coming out of the gates in the second half.

 

[FrankZ_RU93]

As a newbie, we have had more than our fair share of dubious called games by the refs.

If you don't know who Burr and Higgins are, count yourself blessed. Literally penned in a loss whenever I saw one of them on the floor. If both were on the floor at the same time, LOL.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

True. But we still scored 80 points against that zone! How effective was it really? To me, it wasn't. What hurt us was the way the game was called at the beginning of the 2nd half. Iowa got into the bonus right away and the things that weren't called against us in the first half were suddenly being called in the second half. It really hurt us coming out of the gates in the second half.

That was my explanation on why we might have not gone to the line..

 

[RU MAN]

That was my explanation on why we might have not gone to the line..

Ok. I misunderstood then.

 

[bac2therac]

Did this really need a new thread?

agree..but this is exactly why I give you guys a hard time about refs...still taking about it two days later trying to find some obscure stats to confirm the opinion the refs are out to get RU, yesterday it was the schedule makers who have RU playing on less days rest.

 

[bac2therac]

Yup. Bac doesn't get it

RU got the benefit of a breathing foul by Iowa vs Harper for a 3pt play and then the questionable hip check out of bounds foul as Harper was falling out, initially Bardo said it was a foul but then further review said maybe not

 

[kcg88]

This is proof of absolutely nothing.

 

[S_Janowski]

we also gave up 85 points, which is 25 points above our average

That’s not a very good response to the OP.

A big reason why we gave up 85 is because they were in the bonus 6-7 mins into the 2nd half on a bunch of bs calls.

They had a hugeee shooting drought in the 2nd half. They stayed ahead and won because of free throws.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I think the big thing overlooked here...and now my biggest beef...is the game went from the first 20 minutes of a extremely loose whistle ...to an immediate tight whistle for the first 10-12 minutes to the game ...to an extremely loose whistle to finish

The calls need to be the same minute 1 through minute 40

And the change of tune that came out in the second half was the big issue...there were more than a few times that contact that drew a foul in that period was not a foul in the first half ...both ways

And that kills the game...any game

Officials...please call it one way ...straight through. Don’t look at the foul count, don’t look at the clock, don’t look at the score

 

[Scangg]

RU got the benefit of a breathing foul by Iowa vs Harper for a 3pt play and then the questionable hip check out of bounds foul as Harper was falling out, initially Bardo said it was a foul but then further review said maybe not

Lol ok?

The point is the refs completely changed the way the game was called in the half which is terrible reffing plain and simple.

Not all fouls are created equal. If you were to review every play of every game and then assign a value to the impact of the foul call based on game situation, player's foul trouble, team fouls, etc and calculated it for each game it would neverrrr even out. Everrrr. It would be impossible. It defies all logic and reasoning to think that it would.

I actually hate the non stop talk about refs too. It sucks, we got screwed, move on. But I cant stand the antintillectual thoughtless "it all evens out" nonsense. It just isn't a serious position to take.

 

[iafan44]

Yeah this is true. Stats are aggregated but it’s the most empirical data we have. I could say the same thing about Iowa taking more FTs per game because they have been winning games against weaker comp and have been in a similar situation. Or that we take less FTs because we are not winning tight games we are blowing teams out Etc.

Really can’t believe people are making excuses for a irregularly officiated game. It happens, yes. But scrutiny isn’t unwarranted.

Like Hawk says, in the end we will be fine because we’re the real deal just sucks that being ranked around 18th was stolen from us.

Who is this weak competition the Hawks have been winning against?

 

[SirScarlet]

if you watched this game and didnt think the officials affected the oucome, especially in the 2nd half, I seriously question your ability to understand and analyze basketball

as someone above said, how many times does an impartial broadcaster comment multiple times IN ONLY ONE TEAM'S direction

it happened. accept it and stop making up excuses that have absolutely no mathematical basis like "it evens out". that's simply a cop out for not wanting to deal with the subconcious bias of human beings that are referees. it happens. at every level. in ALL sports

deal with it and stop acting like it doesnt happen...that's just stupid

 

[RU-ROCS]

we also gave up 85 points, which is 25 points above our average

Hey, wait. I thought Bac was suppose to stay out of this thread. :Wink:

 

[bac2therac]

if you watched this game and didnt think the officials affected the oucome, especially in the 2nd half, I seriously question your ability to understand and analyze basketball

as someone above said, how many times does an impartial broadcaster comment multiple times IN ONLY ONE TEAM'S direction

it happened. accept it and stop making up excuses that have absolutely no mathematical basis like "it evens out". that's simply a cop out for not wanting to deal with the subconcious bias of human beings that are referees. it happens. at every level. in ALL sports

deal with it and stop acting like it doesnt happen...that's just stupid

sure it affects the game, it doesnt determine the outcome, teams adapt, just like they the crowd affects the game, just like an injury affects the game, its like turnovers affect the game, its all part of the game. You have no idea what would have happened if the game was called like it was in the first half. It is what it is. RU didnt adjust as well as Iowa did as both teams were being called for a bunch of fouls earlier. RU did not play well in that stretch, they missed free throws and their offense was a wreck, lost composure..then they settled down and got bakc into it

and yes it does even out, because you and others accept what happens at the RAC as not being biased. Even in the latter stages of the Iowa game, RU was getting the benefit of calls, but you dont mention that, nor do you mention that the refs basically gave RU 3 points out of a possible 4 by not calling that one foul at the end of the half

worrying about it and nitpicking is pointless...do you know RU was called for just 4 fouls in the first half and there were people bitching about those 4 calls that they were fouls or charges. Thats when I know there is no objectivity.