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Chris Ash - underrated recruiter??

R

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
RU#1fan said:
huh ????
2020 Pre Schiano # 90
2019 Ranked #65
2018 Ranked #56
2017: Rutgers #42

Every Class except for 2017 was at the bottom of the B1G . Epic failure for Ash as an Recruiter.
Click to expand...

2017 started off hot - Ash was able to get some immediate recruiting buzz. Melton/Fogg/Clark led off the class over the summer, and we had some high 3-star guys like Lewis/Vretman. The OSU pedigree and NC ring seemed to be working well out of the gate. Overall, the class was on pace to be mid-upper pack B1G through the end of August, with several other guys who had us in their final lists (Hansard, Hand, Bell, Singleton).

....then the games started, and it was very quickly apparent that the offensive staff he hired was woefully out of their depth, with the biggest eyesore being the 58-0 and 78-0 back to back drubbings at the hands of OSU and Michigan. The rest of that class just fizzled, and we won none of the guys who had us in their final lists heading into September.... ended up with just two more 3-stars and six 2-star players.

2018 was a complete shift in philosophy after Boy Wonder was gone, and we completely abandoned the spread concepts that we had been recruiting toward the prior year. Ash brought in Jerry Kill (who recruited A. Sitkowski), Lester Erb (I. Pacheco, J. Chatman), and Henry Baker (A. Young). Bill Busch also helped bring in a couple (Z. Lacewell, J. Paul) before leaving for LSU after the season.

2019 was another shift in philosophy after Kill retired again after taking a shot on the sideline (which he wouldn't have taken if Ash let him call plays from the booth like he wanted). Baker took a position at UNC, Busch was off to LSU, and Jafar Williams was off to MD (he had recruited Robinson for 2018, and Wormley for 2017). We were losing staff that were lead recruiters and not replacing them (while at the same time getting our butts handed to us on the field). The ship sinking at that point.

2020 class started off very slow without a lot of hope that it would improve, and then all progress was halted once Ash was fired. Campanile said he wasn't going to start offering new guys without knowing who the next coach would be, and the class sat stagnant until Schiano was hired.
 
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K

Knights 1212

All-American
Sep 9, 2003
27,561
8,501
113
All I will remember about Ash was our losing 78-0 and 58-0 in his first year and his saying we are building for the future. It didn't even seem like it bothered him at all to lose so bad. It seemed like he wasn't even trying to get to know our NJ high school coaches or visit many high schools in NJ.
 
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S

Scarlet Blind_rivals

All-Conference
Aug 5, 2001
4,660
4,721
62
We have some DB talent, like Christian Izien, Avery Young, Tre Avery, and even Tim Barrow showed life under Jay Valai this season, maybe a coach like Fran Brown will make them even better. Some of the DBs were high 3* talent last 3 years.
 
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M

madchuck

Heisman
Oct 22, 2016
21,643
46,111
62
RUChoppin said:
2017 started off hot - Ash was able to get some immediate recruiting buzz. Melton/Fogg/Clark led off the class over the summer, and we had some high 3-star guys like Lewis/Vretman. The OSU pedigree and NC ring seemed to be working well out of the gate. Overall, the class was on pace to be mid-upper pack B1G through the end of August, with several other guys who had us in their final lists (Hansard, Hand, Bell, Singleton).

....then the games started, and it was very quickly apparent that the offensive staff he hired was woefully out of their depth, with the biggest eyesore being the 58-0 and 78-0 back to back drubbings at the hands of OSU and Michigan. The rest of that class just fizzled, and we won none of the guys who had us in their final lists heading into September.... ended up with just two more 3-stars and six 2-star players.

2018 was a complete shift in philosophy after Boy Wonder was gone, and we completely abandoned the spread concepts that we had been recruiting toward the prior year. Ash brought in Jerry Kill (who recruited A. Sitkowski), Lester Erb (I. Pacheco, J. Chatman), and Henry Baker (A. Young). Bill Busch also helped bring in a couple (Z. Lacewell, J. Paul) before leaving for LSU after the season.

2019 was another shift in philosophy after Kill retired again after taking a shot on the sideline (which he wouldn't have taken if Ash let him call plays from the booth like he wanted). Baker took a position at UNC, Busch was off to LSU, and Jafar Williams was off to MD (he had recruited Robinson for 2018, and Wormley for 2017). We were losing staff that were lead recruiters and not replacing them (while at the same time getting our butts handed to us on the field). The ship sinking at that point.

2020 class started off very slow without a lot of hope that it would improve, and then all progress was halted once Ash was fired. Campanile said he wasn't going to start offering new guys without knowing who the next coach would be, and the class sat stagnant until Schiano was hired.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
M

madchuck

Heisman
Oct 22, 2016
21,643
46,111
62
Hey started off good but then we lost by like 80 to Michigan and ended up with a bunch of 2 star FCS kids to fill the class. Flipping Stony Brook recruits.
 
R

RUforlife

All-Conference
Oct 27, 2002
3,444
4,218
0
Chris Ash was an underrated recruiter, coach, and leader of men. We are going to miss his optimism, charisma, and can do attitude for years to come. Merry Christmas Coach Ash and Family!
 
WhiteBus

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,520
21,922
113
RUSK97 said:
I don't have a reply, but rather a question. None of Ash's recruiting classes, except for perhaps his first (when he had a short cycle and mostly inherited Flood's last class) were that poorly ranked. I mean they mostly weren't great, but based purely on ratings, the on-the-field performance certainly shouldn't have been chickensh1+.
Click to expand...
Are you on Meth???
 
E

ElmiraExpress

Senior
Oct 3, 2004
2,439
767
0
2 wins this year, 1 win last year, this must be the dumbest post of all time. Let me guess, if Rutgers actually won 4 gmaes, Ash would be considered the greatest recruiter of all time


NickRU714 said:
With so many people expecting/predicting 5-6 win season and a bowl appearance - is Chris Ash's recruiting now underrated?

Especially when we don't even have an OC yet or know if we are getting the mythical "portal QB".

If all this roster needed was better coaching (again we don't even have an OC yet) that means Ash recruited at least a decent team?

Guess all those people claiming "nobody could win with this roster, can't expect the OC to make chicken salad out of chicken sh@t" were wrong.


@Knight Shift - the little OC dig is just for you :WideSmile:
Click to expand...
 
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seels2662

Heisman
Aug 16, 2005
24,704
17,380
113
He is a horrible recruiter of underclassmen. He was ok in the transfer market. I would say his success rate of underclassmen that are legit B1G starters are less than 20%. In transfers, I bet it's a little over 50%.
 
E

ElmiraExpress

Senior
Oct 3, 2004
2,439
767
0
If Rutgers was ever ranked 13th in recruiting, instead of last, the OP would want Ash to have a lifetime contract for his recruiting prowess

RU#1fan said:
huh ????
2020 Pre Schiano # 90
2019 Ranked #65
2018 Ranked #56
2017: Rutgers #42

Every Class except for 2017 was at the bottom of the B1G . Epic failure for Ash as an Recruiter.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
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N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
14,244
13,040
113
Hmmm....I would have thought that for a school with such a renowned journalism school - Syracuse would have taught reading comprehension or how question marks work.

I'll try again but slower.

1. Many people are expecting immediate improvement in 2020: 5, 6 wins and a bowl game as realistic expectations.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/expectations-for-2020.184326/

2. What players would make up the majority of that team? Ash recruited players.

3. Here comes the hard part - if someone thinks this team is talented enough to make a bowl in 2020 with "better coaching" then wouldn't that person must also think Ash wasn't a "disaster recruiter"?

You cant say "2019 - this team has no talent. Belichek couldn't make this team competitive.
2020 - Schiano can coach this team to 5-6 wins" without thinking Ash recruited talent.

Now - since my OP was a question and didn't actually address my own personal expectations, I'll placate you and provide it.
I couldn't care less about recruiting rankings or following recruiting.

Ash (and more so his decision to hire Kill then McN as OC) was a disaster.
2020 should just hope to move into Top 100 of scoring offense which would be a significant improvement.
 
E

ElmiraExpress

Senior
Oct 3, 2004
2,439
767
0
People are expecting the team to be better because of Shiano, not Ash’s recruiting, that is crazy.

NickRU714 said:
Hmmm....I would have thought that for a school with such a renowned journalism school - Syracuse would have taught reading comprehension or how question marks work.

I'll try again but slower.

1. Many people are expecting immediate improvement in 2020: 5, 6 wins and a bowl game as realistic expectations.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/expectations-for-2020.184326/

2. What players would make up the majority of that team? Ash recruited players.

3. Here comes the hard part - if someone thinks this team is talented enough to make a bowl in 2020 with "better coaching" then wouldn't that person must also think Ash wasn't a "disaster recruiter"?

You cant say "2019 - this team has no talent. Belichek couldn't make this team competitive.
2020 - Schiano can coach this team to 5-6 wins" without thinking Ash recruited talent.

Now - since my OP was a question and didn't actually address my own personal expectations, I'll placate you and provide it.
I couldn't care less about recruiting rankings or following recruiting.

Ash (and more so his decision to hire Kill then McN as OC) was a disaster.
2020 should just hope to move into Top 100 of scoring offense which would be a significant improvement.
Click to expand...
 
R

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
Ash's recruiting was like playing "four to a flush" to the showdown. He put together a handful of nice pieces (Pacheco, Blackshear, Melton, Fatukasi, Fogg, Izien...), but not enough for a winning hand.

We have a decent crop of role players on this team, with a lot of gaps. Schiano is doing his best to fill those gaps (White at safety, as an example), but also will need to be creative to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses once the roster is assembled. Ash and his staff really struggled to do that latter part.
 
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C

cicero grimes

All-American
Nov 23, 2015
8,359
8,886
0
NickRU714 said:
Hmmm....I would have thought that for a school with such a renowned journalism school - Syracuse would have taught reading comprehension or how question marks work.

I'll try again but slower.

1. Many people are expecting immediate improvement in 2020: 5, 6 wins and a bowl game as realistic expectations.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/expectations-for-2020.184326/

2. What players would make up the majority of that team? Ash recruited players.

3. Here comes the hard part - if someone thinks this team is talented enough to make a bowl in 2020 with "better coaching" then wouldn't that person must also think Ash wasn't a "disaster recruiter"?

You cant say "2019 - this team has no talent. Belichek couldn't make this team competitive.
2020 - Schiano can coach this team to 5-6 wins" without thinking Ash recruited talent.

Now - since my OP was a question and didn't actually address my own personal expectations, I'll placate you and provide it.
I couldn't care less about recruiting rankings or following recruiting.

Ash (and more so his decision to hire Kill then McN as OC) was a disaster.
2020 should just hope to move into Top 100 of scoring offense which would be a significant improvement.
Click to expand...
I don't know where the 5-6 wins are coming from. This is a three win team with GS at the helm, maybe four at best. That is only because GS came in and added some linemen late in the game. Were Ash still at the helm, 1-11 was pretty likely and we would have to sweat out the Monmouth win. One of the pre - season magazines nailed it last season when they asked opposing coaches of their view of Rutgers. The consensus was MAC level talent.
 
DJ Spanky

DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
49,534
60,851
113
NickRU714 said:
3. Here comes the hard part - if someone thinks this team is talented enough to make a bowl in 2020 with "better coaching" then wouldn't that person must also think Ash wasn't a "disaster recruiter"?
Click to expand...
That may also have something to do with being able to develop the players you have, something that Schiano was very good at. Ash, not so much.
 
G

GSGS

Heisman
Aug 2, 2001
28,898
22,893
113
RU fans here thought that we would go 6-6 w a bowl in 2018 ... we went 1-11, and the only bowling was with the recruits in NYC.
 
D

dvb91

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
5,184
929
0
RUChoppin said:
Ash's recruiting was like playing "four to a flush" to the showdown. He put together a handful of nice pieces (Pacheco, Blackshear, Melton, Fatukasi, Fogg, Izien...), but not enough for a winning hand.

We have a decent crop of role players on this team, with a lot of gaps. Schiano is doing his best to fill those gaps (White at safety, as an example), but also will need to be creative to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses once the roster is assembled. Ash and his staff really struggled to do that latter part.
Click to expand...
+1

I'm sure there is enough talent to work with to possibly get 3-4 wins easy, but 6 wins will be a stretch. I think a lot of posters put a lot of stock into the idea of sweeping out of Ash & his vanilla personality. Heck, see how Nunzio seemingly got a little more out of the team, despite difficult circumstances. The hope is that GS can inject more into the program that leads to a belief that we can compete, especially within the locker room.
 
A

AreYouNUTS

Heisman
Aug 1, 2001
124,168
58,168
113
Ash in a nutshell:

My friends son - a kid kid whose parents both graduated Scarlet Knights, whose father was a walkon under Graber, played for the last four years at a local prep school and Started for the last three years - Never once heard a single word from Ash or any of his staff members. Not once. He will be walking on at Wake next season. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a scholarship by his sophomore season and gets plenty of playing time while there. The kid grew up Rutgers and always wanted to stay home but was so dismayed by this nonsense - as were his parents - that there’s probably no chance he changes his mind at this point.
 
B

Bill 86

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
13,336
14,067
113
angmo said:
His last class was ranked 98th until Schiano came along. Seriously Chris Ash was an epic fail in every aspect of coaching. You have to really try to suck as bad as he did at everything.

He made Terry Shea look like Bear Bryant.
Click to expand...

That was based on quantity. Rankings factor in quantity
 
B

Bill 86

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
13,336
14,067
113
RUChoppin said:
Ash was a bad recruiter not because he didn't bring in any good players... but because his approach was so scattershot that the players he brought in didn't form a cohesive team, and there were massive gaps that needed to be filled.

He started off recruiting to Mehringer's spread.... then scrapped that to recruit to Kill's more conservative pro style... then scrapped that to recruit to whatever the hell McNulty was trying to do...

Ended up with a lot of disparate odds and ends pieces, some of which are really good (e.g. Pacheco)... but not enough to put together a solid two deep that could compete in this conference, especially given the difficulties the outgoing staff had with "coaching them up" or being creative in leveraging the pieces they had.

This team already looked more competitive with Nunzio as HC/OC than with Ash/McNulty... and it wasn't because he suddenly had better players.
Click to expand...

In some games the offense looked good under Nunzio, but in many worse. If the Ash/McNulty offense built off the production from the BC game it could have been decent. I loved Langan though and enjoyed watching that offense for the most part.
 
R

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
Bill 86 said:
In some games the offense looked good under Nunzio, but in many worse. If the Ash/McNulty offense built off the production from the BC game it could have been decent. I loved Langan though and enjoyed watching that offense for the most part.
Click to expand...

And that was without Blackshear, too, keep in mind.

There are pieces - not enough to field a whole team that could compete in this conference, though. Nunzio was a lot more creative than Ash was, imo - and was able to inspire and get more out of the team than Ash did, even without its most dynamic playmaker.

Schiano will fill a bunch of existing gaps in the first year, and adapt the concepts to the pieces he has on the roster on day one. I feel he will get a lot more out of that group than Ash would have gotten with whatever roster he ended up with going into 2020. Don't see that as 6 wins, but I'm optimistic we'll be back on the path toward .500 seasons.
 
M

MYHATINTHERING

All-Conference
Mar 25, 2015
9,163
4,042
0
RUChoppin said:
And that was without Blackshear, too, keep in mind.

There are pieces - not enough to field a whole team that could compete in this conference, though. Nunzio was a lot more creative than Ash was, imo - and was able to inspire and get more out of the team than Ash did, even without its most dynamic playmaker.

Schiano will fill a bunch of existing gaps in the first year, and adapt the concepts to the pieces he has on the roster on day one. I feel he will get a lot more out of that group than Ash would have gotten with whatever roster he ended up with going into 2020. Don't see that as 6 wins, but I'm optimistic we'll be back on the path toward .500 seasons.
Click to expand...
Good post
Only disagreeing on win total
 
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