How about from 2013-2018, did they dominant their conference?. Were they the NCAA rep most of those years and NiT back in 2013.
The Rutgers Defense
- Thread starter BillyC80
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I'm not sure what a team with a different coach and different players would have to do with this season's SFA squad. I was merely pointing out their record since their new coach was hired 4 years ago over the 2016/17, 2017/18, and 2018/19 seasons. Bringing up what his predecessor did seems irrelevant to this season. They have yet to win their conference since Underwood left so it isn't like they have been dominating all this lesser competition.
Pathetic. I guess you didn’t watch the Duke game. Time will tell where that team finishes but from watching that team up close, they were a handful and although we played great defense that night they had a ton of unforced turnovers. They have tough players that play on both sides of the floor. Fun team to root for the rest of the year.
I've said elsewhere I think they will probably level out around #150.
We'll see how they do against Alabama on Friday.
Put them at 125 if you like...still doesn't mean it is a signature win at home.
Not sure what the relevance in looking at them quoting what Brad Underwood did.
I could be very wrong....in a 20 game conference season where teams are looking to beat you and know you I don't think their defensive philosophy will work as well. I doubt Duke spent time having their scout team defend the unique way SFA does. IF the way they play defense worked you'd see more teams doing it. I find it gimmicky
No. Based on watching them in person and how easy it would be to attack the way they play defense.
Obviously the Duke game makes me look REAL bad. The "eye test" to me watching them up close was a team that wasn't very good and using a junk defense to throw teams off guard.
This is a good debate. So many factors come into play. I do think the ratings sites are flawed and favor teams in better conferences, even when conference play hasn’t started yet.
To wit: SFA has beaten every team on their schedule so far, except us, including the #1 team in the country (on the road no less). We have beaten every team on our schedule so far, except SB, with no wins against ranked teams.
So, on what basis, so far this year, would SFA be rated a 202 on Kenpom while RU is at 70?
If it’s a carryover from last year then I can see it for the first few games but once the season is 25% complete (SFA is 7-1 and we’re 6-1) then I think you have to look at what’s right in front of you.
To wit: SFA has beaten every team on their schedule so far, except us, including the #1 team in the country (on the road no less). We have beaten every team on our schedule so far, except SB, with no wins against ranked teams.
So, on what basis, so far this year, would SFA be rated a 202 on Kenpom while RU is at 70?
If it’s a carryover from last year then I can see it for the first few games but once the season is 25% complete (SFA is 7-1 and we’re 6-1) then I think you have to look at what’s right in front of you.
Another to consider when using the past to say SFA is good. Looking at the tempo numbers they played a completely different way back then. So you have a different coach using a different system. There is nothing you should use from Brad Underwood's team in any case describing how this team is.
I don't know after 8 games how much of the data is based on fake numbers (last year or expected results). Very soon all will be based on current. With SFA's bad schedule they will not only need to win, but win convincingly. Southland conference is BAD. It's like playing Niagara over and over again.
SFA's non RU schedule is brutal.
UNC Central #337 2-6
Niagara #322 1-5
Drexel #285 4-4
Ark State #290 5-2
2 non D1 teams which don't count in ratings
UNC Central #337 2-6
Niagara #322 1-5
Drexel #285 4-4
Ark State #290 5-2
2 non D1 teams which don't count in ratings
By the way GRF, if you use the eye test and see a gimmick defense, that’s fine. But until it stops working you have to give credit where credit is due.
Even before we played SFA, I started touting the benefits of playing aggressive D that goes for steals and is not concerned with fouling. I believe I brought this up after Bryant fouled us 25 times, got us to turn the ball over 15 times, kept us out of our offensive flow and made the game much closer than it should have been.
Against Duke, SFA committed 29 fouls and got Duke to turn the ball over 22 times. If you can win playing that way, those wins still count, gimmick or not.
Even before we played SFA, I started touting the benefits of playing aggressive D that goes for steals and is not concerned with fouling. I believe I brought this up after Bryant fouled us 25 times, got us to turn the ball over 15 times, kept us out of our offensive flow and made the game much closer than it should have been.
Against Duke, SFA committed 29 fouls and got Duke to turn the ball over 22 times. If you can win playing that way, those wins still count, gimmick or not.
Another thing to add to the discussion.....went back and looked at last year.
Their tempo numbers and TO% on D were no where near what they are this year. This tells me most likely the defensive scheme SFA uses were not used primarily, or at all, last year. The roster turnover is not enough to conclude it is different personnel.
Sounds like coach completely changed the way they play defensively. I wonder if that SFA fan that was on the board is around to weigh in.
Their tempo numbers and TO% on D were no where near what they are this year. This tells me most likely the defensive scheme SFA uses were not used primarily, or at all, last year. The roster turnover is not enough to conclude it is different personnel.
Sounds like coach completely changed the way they play defensively. I wonder if that SFA fan that was on the board is around to weigh in.
I believe you expect us to win only 3-4 conference games this year. So considering you think so lowly of this RU team, wouldn't that make SFA a signature win in your book?
Edit.....3-4 win projection...
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63% of the minutes played and 59% of the scoring so far this year has been by players who weren't on the roster last season. There are only 3 returning players (Harris, Comeaux, Bain) in their 10-man rotation.
This is an entirely different team than last year's squad.
The fallacy is thinking that Duke is the best team in the country. While they may have been ranked #1 at the time, you gotta take that performance into account which is why the computers and polls have them ranked well below that now.
To all those that said beating Steven F Austin was a "signature win".....oh wait, nobody said that.
You are clueless. They play the same attacking defensive style Underwood played with at SFA and in fact they have been known as a really good defensive team. That has been their identity. Saying the Duke game makes you look bad but, there is no but. You sound like a buffoon. Open your damn eyes and watch the games . Their guard Harris who we frustrated all night , declared for the NBA last year, then pulled his name back. He then went on the road this year and put 25 up on Duke a really good defensive team this year, and they couldn’t guard him. They have been a really good low major team for a long time and it started under Underwood so he is really relevant.
block, this is a good point but what drives me crazy is that the only reason SFA is now not getting credit for beating the #1 team is because that team lost to SFA!
Meanwhile Duke still has only that one loss and Duke beat #2 Kansas which remains at #2 because their only loss is to Duke when Duke was #1.
So why doesn’t Kansas move down in the rankings now that Duke is #10, having lost to lowly SFA?
The last non conference team that beat Duke @Duke was St. John's 83-82 in 2000, Mike Jarvis was the coach and Bootsey Thorton leading scorer. They had 150 straight wins, ranked or not ranked. In 19 years, they had 10 close calls, Kent St 79-72 2006, Georgetown 61-52 2006, Mich St. 81-74 2004, Ohio St. 73-68 2012, Davidson 79-67 2009, Mich St. 84-79 2010, Indiana 54-51 2006, Rhode Island 82-79 2008, Belmont 77-76 2011, and Vermont 91-90 2013. Before St. John's, it was a 1 pt loss to Michigan 63-62 in 1996, with Robert "Tractor" Trailor. So now 3 non conference losses in the last 23 years, I would say that puts SF Austin (7-1) in elite class with @Alabama(3-4) next. In Duke's last 305 non conference games, they are 297-8(SF Austin gave them loss #9) and 542-66 89% win percentage overall at home(loss #67) under Coach K. If SF Austin finishes 27-4 or 28-3 or better, would that make it a signature win.
FWIW, I have a computer ranking that doesn't use any preseason #s and it has SF Austin at #46 currently (Rutgers at #83)
But rankings based solely on this year are still very volatile at this point.
by definition when you lose (especially to SFA), you drop down. Kansas is up there because they have 4 wins over top 100 opponents so far including a red hot Dayton team whereas Duke's only other win over any note is over a struggling Georgetown team.
Single results mean relatively little when analyzing the strength of a resume. Duke beat Kansas. SFA beat Duke. Rutgers beat SFA. I mean basically Rutgers is #1, right? Upsets happen. Teams have good games and bad games. You have to weigh their resume in total and at this point in the year you would be silly to not include a preseason estimation of team strength if you are trying to guess how good teams will be going forward. Season way too young to overweight any 1 game or w.
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Makes the most sense since it takes out the ******** last year stats and returning players etc. Every year in College basketball is different. There is no dominant team this year like the Duke or Virginia or Villanova teams along with the blue bloods , Kentucky , Kansas and UNC . So far Evansville beat Kentucky , SFA beat Duke and Michigan State has lost to Virginia Tech , who supposedly better than the other 2. Pepperdine is 3-6 and took Arizona to the wire the other night and lost 93-91. Nicholls State , same conference as SFA ,took Illinois to OT, beat Pitt, only lost by 10 to LSU and by 5 to Rhode Island. The gap is closing between the schools as there are players everywhere.
I looked at their 6 games averaged against D1 and took their adjusted offensive and defensive efficiency.
OFFENSE 98.18 198th
DEFENSE 92.33 62nd
Differential of +5.85 would put them in the low 100s.
Bart has them at a -3.8 right now so there is a bunch of expected/last season numbers in there.
http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Stephen+F.+Austin
Bart spread vs Bama is -16.6
If you use just the data we have now and change SFA from a -3.8 to a +5.85 you get a
Bama -8 ish
OFFENSE 98.18 198th
DEFENSE 92.33 62nd
Differential of +5.85 would put them in the low 100s.
Bart has them at a -3.8 right now so there is a bunch of expected/last season numbers in there.
http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Stephen+F.+Austin
Bart spread vs Bama is -16.6
If you use just the data we have now and change SFA from a -3.8 to a +5.85 you get a
Bama -8 ish
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If they finish in low 100s that would translate in to 17-1 18-0 in conference
raw numbers
offense 101.1 (85/84)
defense 98.8 (83/84)
adjusted numbers
offense 114.0
defense 91.6
22.4
Not sure if the question was for that specific game OR the cumulative games leading up to that point
offense 101.1 (85/84)
defense 98.8 (83/84)
adjusted numbers
offense 114.0
defense 91.6
22.4
Not sure if the question was for that specific game OR the cumulative games leading up to that point
Thanks, 22.4 seems impressive, even though I have no idea what that number represents. PS I was asking just for the Duke game.