Near or Far

zebnatto

All-Conference
May 7, 2008
5,071
3,818
0
Watching all these NCAA games, I go back and forth as to where we are in the pecking order. One game (or one minute) thinking, we are right there, we beat this team, just one more piece. Other times, I’m thinking, wow, we have a long way to go.

Thoughts?
 

ScarletKid2008

Heisman
Sep 8, 2006
8,039
10,543
113
Same. Some of the offensive runs and athletes on these teams has me thinking we are way way off. Most of these tournament teams have 2 game changing players. I wouldn't say we have 1 of that caliber yet .. Geo has potential and maybe Harper. But both are nowhere near consistent or that unstoppable as we've seen this first weekend.
 

YoucancallmeRay

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2015
1,790
1,905
113
All the BIG teams that made the NCAA had 8 conference wins or more, we had 7. They all had 20 or more total wins, we had 14, but we only played 31 total games, everyone who made it played 34-36 games. So, if you mean how near are we to making the NCAA, we're close. One more win, 20 total wins (with more non-conference games needed) and we're in. And that is with our current team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUDead and satnom

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
Watching all these NCAA games, I go back and forth as to where we are in the pecking order. One game (or one minute) thinking, we are right there, we beat this team, just one more piece. Other times, I’m thinking, wow, we have a long way to go.

Thoughts?


fans get too caught up in when we look really good and beat teams like Iowa and OSU and play well vs Michigan and Mich State...well alot of teams that are mediocre do that...the jump from mediocre to a tournament team that is consistent at winning is another story. Its a big leap. RU took major leaps this year but still not at the level whether they either know or have the ability to night in and night out be opponents. Beating Iowa is nice but if you follow it up with losses at home to Penn State and then to Indiana in ugly fashion and then lose to Nebraska then it proves we have a substantial amount of growing up and work to do to close the gap
 

Westcoast

All-American
Nov 14, 2001
22,416
5,976
113
it proves we have a substantial amount of growing up and work to do to close the gap

I don't think it proves we have a ways to go to close the gap. We closed the gap this year between us and 10-12 seeds like Iowa and Minnesota. Doesn't mean we automatically make the tourney next year but the notion we don't have the ability to make it right now is false.

If the team we have right now played the season over again we would have a good chance of being on the bubble.

But we have a ways to go to getting a 4-5 seed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rubigtimenow

jerzeyguy

All-Conference
May 18, 2008
3,517
2,600
0
We'll be in the tourney Geo's senior yr. You can just tell how determined this group is. This young group won 7 conference games -- mostly off of hard effort. Wait untill their skills and experience grows -- with this effort. Tourney coming soon
 

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,277
15,953
73
See...what excites me is that we won 7 games and were really competitive in more...and, other than the Iowa game, it wasn’t because we were just lights on from the floor...we earned those wins by going toe to toe...and we got a lot of close losses going toe to toe

And you just see a lot of upside ...individually on our roster ...and a lot of better basketball on a team level from growth and experience

And we are adding talent

I would not be this upbeat if we
Had a Jerome Coleman type season where he won half of our games bombing from 27 feet away with success...as the next year proved that wasn’t sustainable

There are no guarantees...but I think our upside is genuine. RU basketball fans are entitled to show me after 28 years and counting ...but I really think we got it right this time.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
I don't think it proves we have a ways to go to close the gap. We closed the gap this year between us and 10-12 seeds like Iowa and Minnesota. Doesn't mean we automatically make the tourney next year but the notion we don't have the ability to make it right now is false.

If the team we have right now played the season over again we would have a good chance of being on the bubble.

But we have a ways to go to getting a 4-5 seed.


disagree...for one that is not how it works, you cannot just play a season over again...secondly we played poor basketball in 5 of our last 6 quarters...fact...we were not playing our best basketball at the end of the season so you really cannot say we would be consistent in winning.

thats the whole point..this team isnt at the level yet to win stretches of games at a time
 

jerzeyguy

All-Conference
May 18, 2008
3,517
2,600
0
I don't think next year is outta of the question.. If we get Yeboah, and Jacob young is good enough to take over at point. That might do it

I'm hoping for junior year. I think he'll come in greatly improved and much more consistent. And having other scoring options and a true pg will lighten the load on him as well.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,212
12,474
113
Lets first have a winning season and have at least one go to scorer before making predictions of major improvement next year.League rivals aren't sitting still waiting for Rutgers to catch up.Seven league wins was a major improvement but still is no guarantee that is a base from which future seasons will guarantee B1G winning records and higher league rankings.There still is lots of improvement needed in offensive efficiency to average 70 plus points per game.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
so true, RU was 3 games under 500...yes we are far away from the NCAA tournament....we would need to be 7 games over 500 not 3 games under. Its a 5 game swing that is harder than you think
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUJMM78

kcg88

Heisman
Aug 11, 2017
10,862
17,230
0
All of our wins except Iowa were tight games. We'll know we're close when we start regularly winning games by 8+ points.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
..........OR .....DR
FL 110.3 91.6 18.7
OR 108.2 92.1 16.1
IOWA 116.2 100.5 15.7
OSU 107.9 93.8 14.1
MIN 110.6 96.3 14.3
SHU 107.9 96.8 11.1
ASU 108.7 97.6 11.1

.AVE 110.0 95.5 14.4

RUTG 105 96 9.0
 
Last edited:

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
We are 5.4 * 70 possessions which equals 3.78 points per game

Many ways to do it, but if we conform our D is fine and we need to be better offensively.

4 point per game more offensively doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

Last year we were 98.1 95.0 3.1

If we make the same strides....3.1 to 9.0 to 15 puts us on the right side of the bubble.
 

mikefla

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2012
6,450
1,552
0
Fans get caught up with good wins like OSU and IOWA BECAUSE we ARE fans

Please stop constantly trying to diminish what success we DO have..
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkostus

Westcoast

All-American
Nov 14, 2001
22,416
5,976
113
disagree...for one that is not how it works, you cannot just play a season over again...secondly we played poor basketball in 5 of our last 6 quarters...fact...we were not playing our best basketball at the end of the season so you really cannot say we would be consistent in winning.

thats the whole point..this team isnt at the level yet to win stretches of games at a time

Obviously we can't play the season over again. That's not the point. By looking at our overall record we are ignoring the fact that we were a completely different team at the end of the year. A team that can be on the bubble next year. Iowa certainly went through a funk late in the year and made the tourney. Their funk was worse than ours. But they were a complete team at the start of the season do they could weather the crappiness. But we spent the first half trying to become a complete team so we had no cushion for late season crappiness. Next year we won't have that problem.
 

dkostus

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2002
6,144
1,552
0
Fans get caught up with good wins like OSU and IOWA BECAUSE we ARE fans

Please stop constantly trying to diminish what success we DO have..
@bac2therac conveniently omits how much he and others on the board get caught up with losses and have their imaginations run wild in the other direction. "How will we ever win another game this year? Oh, woe is me..."
 
  • Like
Reactions: PaKnight

Westcoast

All-American
Nov 14, 2001
22,416
5,976
113
so true, RU was 3 games under 500...yes we are far away from the NCAA tournament....we would need to be 7 games over 500 not 3 games under. Its a 5 game swing that is harder than you think
Different post but my point remains the same. We were only 3 games under because we spent half a season trying to acclimate 60% of our roster to High Major competition. We had 6 guys who had never played for Rutgers before. We only played 10 guys in the rotation. That's an unbelievable stat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkostus

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
All of our wins except Iowa were tight games. We'll know we're close when we start regularly winning games by 8+ points.
All of our wins except Iowa were tight games. We'll know we're close when we start regularly winning games by 8+ points.


very important point. First step is getting wins but also dangerous to play nip and tuck games, we won some and we lost some. Next step is that some of these wins come easier. Obviously the Iowa game on the road was a huge step in that direction
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
@bac2therac conveniently omits how much he and others on the board get caught up with losses and have their imaginations run wild in the other direction. "How will we ever win another game this year? Oh, woe is me..."


dont understand this at all.


anyhow Iowa came out of the gates against a solid non conference schedule and started winning, even getting ranked and then did well to start the year in league. For RU to make a NCAA tourney run,....they will need to do the same....schedule stronger, win those games and position themselves, Iowa was able to sustain a funk because of their success in non conference. Indiana success in non conference allowed them to stay in the battle for a NCAA bid becoming just the 2nd team out despite a 17-15 record.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,706
177,414
113
Fans get caught up with good wins like OSU and IOWA BECAUSE we ARE fans

Please stop constantly trying to diminish what success we DO have..


who is diminishing success...it was success for RU because we have terrible for so long..at the end of the day we were 14-17...we need to get better by alot to get to 19-12. That leap is the hardest to take in rebuilding..ask Pat Chambers, ask Brad Underwood, ask Doug Collins. We are counting on what we dont have yet on the court to bring us there. Its going to be an adjustment period. Also another concern in the 5 spot, the loss of Doorson will hurt more than people think without a JUCO. I do not believe Doucoure is the answer we are looking for there
 

dkostus

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2002
6,144
1,552
0
dont understand this at all.

I'm sure you don't get it. You comment (with some apparent disdain) on how some posters overestimate pitential success following wins, yet lack the self reflection to see the flipside that happens with many posters, including yourself, following losses. It's pretty straight forward. Over reaction works both ways.
 

Bob Chaewsky_rivals

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2008
7,532
4,910
113
so true, RU was 3 games under 500...yes we are far away from the NCAA tournament....we would need to be 7 games over 500 not 3 games under. Its a 5 game swing that is harder than you think
You are 100% correct, plus its not like everyone else in the league is standing still. Look at their incoming classes. I'm not sure more experience from our current players is enough. We need to recruit over them also.
 

wheezer

Heisman
Jun 3, 2001
169,849
25,534
113
I think we watch some of these NCAA games and see some really good individual plays here and there and figure we cannot compete with that.

If we were the opponent we might have been playing a lock down defense and the game would be more ‘ugly’, with less spectacular plays on either side. It would be a credit more to our defense than anything. We did have many games where we held opponents well below their seasons average
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUDead and dkostus

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,451
38,741
113
I guess 3 games under 500 is viewed differently. It's really one to me. If you flip the Iowa game, it's one more win and one less loss.

It looks worse because it's 14-17, when in 99% of the scenarios is 15-16. Or I take the leap of faith that RU is just better than Northwestern and if healthy, that home loss makes RU 16-15. And that is assuming we are a 10 seed or 9 seed in the B1G and still have a 1st round loss to Ohio State or Minnesota.

I never felt that RU lucked into any of their B1G wins and despite many believing the referees have no impact on games or foul trouble, it wasn't until the games after the Iowa game at the RAC, where I felt the referees were a factor.

I know we have a new and expected better coach arriving at Nebraska, but the rest of the league appears to be intact. I think that helps RU scouting and being able to know what teams want to run. On the flip side, RU is likely to at least 3 or potentially 4 new players that all offer upside that teams have to adjust to.

RU will be more flexible on defense if we get to a 10 man rotation for the bulk of the season and with Young, Mulcahy and the next recruit for 2019. RU went through being Baker and Eugene reliant, to being able to score with Caleb, Harper and getting an occasional easy basket off the dribble with Mathis.

As Mathis did really well in January on drives, teams adjusted and that slowed him down.....then another layer was added as Harper's minutes increased and then Caleb saw more minutes and his production went up.

In a sense, we were being scouted. Then adjusted, then expanded, then adjusted again. You don't go from 3 to 7 or potentially 8 wins, without more scoring and more options.

There are now multiple ways to score next year, with Young and I believe the staff will stagger Mulcahy into the flow slowly vs. starting him right away and letting other teams scout how to defend him. That will allow his success to grow under the radar, while others expand their roles like Harper, McConnell and Mathis.

I am not including any additional leaps or growth spurts in any way with Myles Johnson, all he has to do is be more efficient in his 18 to 24 minutes a game. His potential alone, not by playing more minutes, but being better in general, takes RU up a level.

There's all spring and summer to break down the additions, departures and kids sitting out as transfers across the B1G. But either 2 things will happen.

A) The B1G continues to maintain its level of play as a conference or improves even more in 2019 and 2020 and RU improves because almost everyone is back.

B) The B1G takes a slight step back from #1 or 2 or 2A in comparison to the ACC and SEC or Big 12....and RU is positioned to improve from a 10th place finish and finds an additional 2 to 4 wins, going from 16 to 18 regular season wins and 8 or 9 or maybe 10 B1G wins.

And with the high amount of grad transfers hitting the market again, RU does NOT need to have one, to be successful next year, filling the 2 spots.

Caleb McConnell became available and was ultimately a target as early as December of 2017 and if there weren't so many schools looking for the quick fix with grad transfers, there should have been more schools all over McConnell.

I can easily foresee the same thing happening again. RU can add a grad transfer that fits AND potentially land a sit out transfer that can help down the road OR target a player that maybe is a 2020 recruit capable of reclassifying back to 2019....or finding another 2019 recruit that can help.

I can't find one reason to feel uncertain that things aren't trending very well for RU. The last 3 games don't erase the 1st 28 for me.
 

Upstream

Heisman
Jul 31, 2001
35,284
10,251
113
Things that have me encouraged:
  • In many of our losses, we still played competitively and were within a ball bounce or two of winning some.
  • We were multi-dimensional. We really had no go-to guy. Even when the opponent keyed in on Geo, there were plenty of other guys who stepped up.
  • All of our freshmen should be stronger and better next season.

Things that have me discouraged:
  • Some of our worst basketball and least competitive stretches came at the end of the season.
  • Sophomore slump.