Would you be happy with 5-7?

[Knight Shift]

The 4TD's-18ints seems to be the obstacle. Can that be turned around? Does anyone turn that around, like ever?

This comparison has been brought up before. Teel redshirted his first year, but in 2005, his first year of play, Teels stats:
51/101 (50.5%) 683 yards 2 TDs/10 INTs. He improved in 2006 to:
164/296 (55.4%) 2135 yards, 12 TDs/13 INTs.

Compare Art:
134/273 (49.1%) 1158 yards 4 TDs/18 INTs.

If Teel's stats were scaled to Art's by multiplying Teel's stats by 2.7, Teel's 2005 Stats:
138/273 (50.5%) 1844 yards 5 TDs/27 INTs.

The above is a strained exercise, but perhaps it offers a glimmer of hope that Art can improve over last year and get at least a 50/50 TD/INT ratio. If that happens, RU's running game with Blackshear and Pacheco (and perhaps a freshman back) is strong, RU may have a functional offense. That's a lot of ifs.

 

[jax26]

A guy who inherited a program that went to 9 bowl games in 11 years now has the fan base happy if they come close to missing a bowl game for the 4th straight year of his tenure.

He would be back at 5 wins but I don’t see it. He is horrific on gameday and this team is talentless save for a few guys. FML.

We’re very similar in our thoughts on Ash... what do you think his win total is to be back bc I think if he gets 3 we have another year of him

 

[RUskoolie]

We’re very similar in our thoughts on Ash... what do you think his win total is to be back bc I think if he gets 3 we have another year of him

I think maybe 4 depending on how it looks. I don’t see it happening. The more I think about this season, the angrier I get. We are horrible across the board save for 3-4 positions out of 22, with a coach who is terrible on gameday and coaches with no balls or fire. If Hobbs fires him this year he’s going to look like a total moron because any money saved in buyout will be lost on ticket revenue and new coaching contracts. 2019 is a lost year and it has me livid.

 

[Knight Shift]

A guy who inherited a program that went to 9 bowl games in 11 years now has the fan base happy if they come close to missing a bowl game for the 4th straight year of his tenure.

He would be back at 5 wins but I don’t see it. He is horrific on gameday and this team is talentless save for a few guys. FML.

That's a little bit of false setup. That's like saying Herbert Hoover is responsible for the Great Depression. Some here acknowledge that recruiting relationships, training, the roster, and a host of other items slid so far under Flood that it was going to take at least 3-5 years to reverse the slide.
I'm not trying to prop him up, but fair is fair. However, I do agree that he has been horrific on game day. But the roster has more than a "few" guys who are not "talentless."

EDIT- a bigger issue is whether Ash is properly identifying and utilizing the most talented players on the roster.

 

[RUskoolie]

That's a little bit of false setup. That's like saying Herbert Hoover is responsible for the Great Depression. Some here acknowledge that recruiting relationships, training, the roster, and a host of other items slid so far under Flood that it was going to take at least 3-5 years to reverse the slide.
I'm not trying to prop him up, but fair is fair. However, I do agree that he has been horrific on game day. But the roster has more than a "few" guys who are not "talentless."

I did this today - please think of the starting lineup of any of our bowl teams. 2014, 2013, 2012, etc

Now think of our projected 22 starters for 2019

Now who is starting over the starters on those bowl teams?

We are not very talented and have a guy who coaches very poorly. Bad combo

 

[RUbacker]

Way too few peaks and way too many valleys, so no I would not be happy with 5-7 that is a losers mentality and until we demand better expect more of the same.
Not trying to be mean.

You can demand better all you want that wont change anything. The fact is we are still rebuilding but you wanted a quick fix and that was not happening here .

 

[Knight Shift]

I did this today - please think of the starting lineup of any of our bowl teams. 2014, 2013, 2012, etc

Now think of our projected 22 starters for 2019

Now who is starting over the starters on those bowl teams?

We are not very talented and have a guy who coaches very poorly. Bad combo

That's a useless exercise. In 2014, we had Ralph Friedgen as OC and a senior QB in Gary Nova. RU went 8-5 that year. RU is not going 8-5 in 2019. And it is useless to go back and look at 2013, 2012, etc, because again, those were bowl teams.

However, the following year (2015), they slid to 4-8. Maybe that is a better roster comparison, because RU will likely wind up somewhere between 3-9 (or worse) and 5-7 (likely not better).

You are trying to compare a team that was 1-11 with teams that went to bowl games (with Greg's recruits) 4 years in a row.

 

[RUaMoose_rivals]

5-7 means he hits his ceiling which would not be a good scenario for fans It would dupe enough ppl into foolishly thinking he can eventually win 6,7 or 8 games which isn’t happening. It’s a great scenario for CA personally since he’d parlay that into another couple years at 2 mill per. That’s been his goal since KS/Buffalo, which was the de facto end of his tenure . Best scenario for fans is two or three wins so we can get him the heck out of here and get someone in here that can recruit and coach

 

[ScarletDave]

We have not a single wide receiver who can catch and no quarterback except one who threw more to the other team than to our own, and you people think we win 5 of our 12 games? Get out of here. We won 1 this year, lucky if we win 2 next season but that’s the ceiling.

 

[read option]

5-7 is acceptable from the standpoint of that being a 4-game improvement from 2018, but what exactly do we want to achieve?

It’s pretty clear that Ash is not the answer for being an every other season Bowl type team, which in the B1G based on our competition should be considered a relatively successful program. Ash is a 1-2 win, 4 wins max type HC - none of which ever get us to a Bowl.

So if he wins 4 and we keep him it’s just kicking the can down the road for another season.

Bottom line - the second we have the money to fire him and hire someone competent we should. To kick the can down the road any longer than we have to is a disservice to everyone involved with the program.

 

[Retired711]

I’ve heard a few people toss out this 2019 record as a must for CA to save his neck. Whether or not this team can attain this record is a question for another time. But my question is: would you be happy with it? Is that enough progress and would you accept that the program is headed in the right direction or would you still complain that CA is being retained?

I'd be overjoyed at 5-7. If not, I at least want to see substantial improvement in all three phases of the game, including QB.

 

[Knight Shift]

5-7 is acceptable from the standpoint of that being a 4-game improvement from 2018, but what exactly do we want to achieve?

It’s pretty clear that Ash is not the answer for being an every other season Bowl type team, which in the B1G based on our competition should be considered a relatively successful program. Ash is a 1-2 win, 4 wins max type HC - none of which ever get us to a Bowl.

So if he wins 4 and we keep him it’s just kicking the can down the road for another season.

Bottom line - the second we have the money to fire him and hire someone competent we should. To kick the can down the road any longer than we have to is a disservice to everyone involved with the program.

What exactly we want to achieve? That's a very good question.
Work from the premise that there are 4 losses that in most years will be automatic (Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State). If a reworked, Scott Frost Nebraska or Wisconsin is a crossover team, the ceiling most years may be 7 wins, and that is assuming RU runs the table in the other 7-8 games on the schedule.

I have said several times, that winning 6-7 games most season, with an 8-9 win regular season (and a 4 or 5 win season too) every 4-6 years (similar to Northwestern) is a realistic goal.

 

[WhiteBus]

I used to wear the most scarlet of scarlet glasses and drank gallons of scarlet kool aid daily. Not sure there are any guaranteed wins. Not trying to be aneeyore, but Liberty has Hugh Freeze as head coach- before hiring Hugh Freeze, in 2018 Liberty beat 10-3 Troy, beat New Mexico, and put up 24 points against Virginia.
UMass may be the easiest team on the schedule, but with new coach Walt Bell, I would not even pencil in a win.

Of course a lot of this depends on RU having a functional passing game.

Wow. Such a negative post. You should argue against yourself and call yourself out. Unreal

 

[bac2therac]

i would say 3-9 is 50/50

 

[newwavedave1]

Yes! Upstream Red Team. Five wins is upstream from one in anybody's book.[cheers]

 

[Plum Street]

Ash won 7 games in 3 seasons. Now he will win 5 in just one? That’s a Hobbs dream.

 

[RUScrew85]

Ecstatic.

 

[JMORC2003]

How do you define a good vs a bad 5-7?

If you’re losing close games against good teams, playing 500 ball most of the season and then drop the last one, solid wins against the teams we should beat would be a lot better than getting smoked in 7 games including BC, barely beating Liberty and Umass and squeaking past Minn, Indiana, Illinois 2 field goals to one

 

[S_Janowski]

You can demand better all you want that wont change anything. The fact is we are still rebuilding but you wanted a quick fix and that was not happening here .

The problem is Ash is currently in year 4 rebuilding from his own faults and failures, not his predeccsor.

 

[madchuck]

The problem is Ash is currently in year 4 rebuilding from his own faults and failures, not his predeccsor.

The fact that it's year 4 and we only have one QB who's ever thrown a pass in an NCAA game is 100% Ash's fault.

 

[S_Janowski]

The fact that it's year 4 and we only have one QB who's ever thrown a pass in an NCAA game is 100% Ash's fault.

Technically I think it’s two (Art and JLew) but thank you for providing a perfect example of 1 of the position groups Ash has failed miserably at before someone @‘s me.

 

[madchuck]

Technically I think it’s two (Art and JLew) but thank you for providing a perfect example of 1 of the position groups Ash has failed miserably at before someone @‘s me.

True but I don't even know if we can count J. Lew because he's now a tight end. If Langan doesn't get a hardship waiver we have Art, Heisey, Albericci and Snyder. Besides Art, None of them had another P5 offer. That could honestly be the worst QB room in the country. I don't even know if that's a better QB group than Monmouth.

 

[nukem]

Ash has dumbed this program down so much, we have people hoping for a "good" 4 wins in year 4. This man has been horrible for this program.

Here's an area that has been overlooked because of his glaring holes and misses in recruiting. We all easily recognize his poor QB and DT recruiting. But how about all of the athlete types that he has brought in. Think of all the DB/WR's that have entered the program under his watch. Now think about how bad our WR's are. How about safeties? How much depth do we have at CB? The man truly sucks as Head Football Coach at Rutgers.

And what's sad is I bet Hobbs retains this guy at 3-9. Maybe even 2-10. We have to eat $7.5M after this year. I'll believe Hobbs let's him go when I see it.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

No I am 5"11 and damned glad .

 

[BlockR]

Five wins a joke.ash should have been gone after last years putrid winless season.
Hes gone without a 500 record,which is never happening this year.

 

[yesrutgers01]

The record isn’t that important this year. Unless he wins 3 or less. Then he is most likely gone. 4/5 wins and he stays but we are stuck in the mud. 6 wins and a bowl, gets us a class in the mid 30’s. And maybe we have turned a corner. To be honest, I don’t see it but it is what it is.
What I want more then anything...When Saturday becomes about Rutgers football again. The past 3 years, if the wife wants to plan something on Saturday, no problem. I’ll DVR the game and more then 50% of the time delete it without even watching.
Ash has completely taken the excitement of being of fan of this team out of me.

 

[Salvi's Headband]

I hear you, but MBB has never surpassed .500 under the current regime and fans are ready to cannonize the man. Just saying’, you gotta start somewhere.

Pike conference wins:
Year 1: 3
Year 2: 5
Year 3: 7

Wow look at that.

 

[RURM85]

This thread makes me sad. I try to go into each spring and each season with renewed hope.

 

[RURM85]

Pike conference wins:
Year 1: 3
Year 2: 5
Year 3: 7

Wow look at that.

And the team plays competitively in more of the losses, Yeah some beat downs like Maryland and Purdue, however in a number of losses we were competitive playing in the second half with opportunities to win.

 

[78CollegeAve]

The problem is Ash is currently in year 4 rebuilding from his own faults and failures, not his predeccsor.

This times 1,000.

 

[JQRU91]

To go 5-7 would be progress, but it's not so much about the final record as it is about improvement in play on the field. For example, we've finished in the bottom 3(!) in offense in the FBS three years running. There is no way this team can be anywhere close to that for Ash to keep his job in my opinion. There are 130 teams out there, and we need to be around 100 or better. I realize Ash is a defensive guy and all, but as the head coach, the buck stops there.

 

[Jersey Boys]

What many of us predicted would happen has happened. The bar has been set so low now that after year 4 with arguably his easiest schedule, 5 wins is viewed as progress and leaves fans content for 2020.

2006 might as well be 1950. I hate what has happened to this program.

Off to Pittsburgh this week to hopefully be in attendance for our first national champion(s).

 

[Knight Shift]

What many of us predicted would happen has happened. The bar has been set so low now that after year 5 with arguably his easiest schedule, 5 wins is viewed as progress and leaves fans content for 2020.

2006 might as well be 1950. I hate what has happened to this program.

Off to Pittsburgh this week to hopefully be in attendance for our first national champion(s).

It's year 4, not year 5.

 

[RUskoolie]

I cannot believe I read someone would be satisfied if we won 5 games.

80 teams go bowling now and you’re satisfied if we’re below .500? This guy has done an incredible job convincing everyone at RU that we have sucked forever.

 

[Jersey Boys]

It's year 4, not year 5.

You are correct. Mistyped. Anything else? I stand by what I said.

 

[DanRU]

Does RU win 5 games against teams they should beat and still get blown out and look noncompetitive in the other games? I'd be OK with 5 if in 5 of the 7 losses, they were still in the game in the 4th quarter and not blown away by half time. I realize that playing in this division, they're going to get blown out early a couple of times for the foreseeable future.

 

[yesrutgers01]

The problem is Ash is currently in year 4 rebuilding from his own faults and failures, not his predeccsor.

I hope many people didn't miss this statement. As bad as Flood was for this program, he should no longer be a part of the narrative. Ash supposedly broke it down from the core in day one. Quick to state on day one that the program/process/players were not P5/B1G level. OK, great, whatever...So, he DID break it down and started over. Please tell me what part of the program he has turned into P5/B1G level? 24 hour snacks? But his offense is having problems because he made a decision to change it completely and then not stick to it and changed it again. His D- because he had the wrong coach in place. Processes? Who the hell knows? Are we back on top of the charts with APR, are kids no longer getting into serious trouble? Are fans flocking to the stadium? How about talent? Has he crused the recruiting trail? Every other Coach that goes elsewhere with his level of pedigree is able to leverage it. He was the DC at OSU for a national champion. But he can't land top level defensive recruits? Come on man...None of this has anything to do with Flood and Ash has to get his act righted this year. And I don't care what happened here 4 years ago. Because quite honestly, while the previous regime did suck, when you look at college sports and football- it was relatively minor stuff and should have been able to correct within 2 years.

I cannot believe I read someone would be satisfied if we won 5 games.

80 teams go bowling now and you’re satisfied if we’re below .500? This guy has done an incredible job convincing everyone at RU that we have sucked forever.

Agree- and I am not sure anyone would be truly "satisfied with 5 wins but he has knocked us down so much that we would take it. The fact that we can't call UMAss and Liberty automatic 40 point wins is f-ing pathetic.

 

[Jersey Boys]

I hope many people didn't miss this statement. As bad as Flood was for this program, he should no longer be a part of the narrative. Ash supposedly broke it down from the core in day one. Quick to state on day one that the program/process/players were not P5/B1G level. OK, great, whatever...So, he DID break it down and started over. Please tell me what part of the program he has turned into P5/B1G level? 24 hour snacks? But his offense is having problems because he made a decision to change it completely and then not stick to it and changed it again. His D- because he had the wrong coach in place. Processes? Who the hell knows? Are we back on top of the charts with APR, are kids no longer getting into serious trouble? Are fans flocking to the stadium? How about talent? Has he crused the recruiting trail? Every other Coach that goes elsewhere with his level of pedigree is able to leverage it. He was the DC at OSU for a national champion. But he can't land top level defensive recruits? Come on man...None of this has anything to do with Flood and Ash has to get his act righted this year. And I don't care what happened here 4 years ago. Because quite honestly, while the previous regime did suck, when you look at college sports and football- it was relatively minor stuff and should have been able to correct within 2 years.



Agree- and I am not sure anyone would be truly "satisfied with 5 wins but he has knocked us down so much that we would take it. The fact that we can't call UMAss and Liberty automatic 40 point wins is f-ing pathetic.

Bravo.

/Thread

 

[Knight Shift]

I hope many people didn't miss this statement. As bad as Flood was for this program, he should no longer be a part of the narrative. Ash supposedly broke it down from the core in day one. Quick to state on day one that the program/process/players were not P5/B1G level. OK, great, whatever...So, he DID break it down and started over. Please tell me what part of the program he has turned into P5/B1G level? 24 hour snacks? But his offense is having problems because he made a decision to change it completely and then not stick to it and changed it again. His D- because he had the wrong coach in place. Processes? Who the hell knows? Are we back on top of the charts with APR, are kids no longer getting into serious trouble? Are fans flocking to the stadium? How about talent? Has he crused the recruiting trail? Every other Coach that goes elsewhere with his level of pedigree is able to leverage it. He was the DC at OSU for a national champion. But he can't land top level defensive recruits? Come on man...None of this has anything to do with Flood and Ash has to get his act righted this year. And I don't care what happened here 4 years ago. Because quite honestly, while the previous regime did suck, when you look at college sports and football- it was relatively minor stuff and should have been able to correct within 2 years.



Agree- and I am not sure anyone would be truly "satisfied with 5 wins but he has knocked us down so much that we would take it. The fact that we can't call UMAss and Liberty automatic 40 point wins is f-ing pathetic.

But the reality is that UMass and Liberty will not be the pushovers that Texas State was last year. Until we see some sort of hope on offense, no wins are automatic, let alone 40 point wins.

 

[yessir321]

I have been one of the most vocal against ash but imho 5-7 buys him one more year to get us bowling. Coming off a 1 win season to improve by 4 games would be huge. Also it depends how we lose if we go 5-7. Are we getting blow out by 30+ by teams like Kansas like last year or are we competitive in games that we should be and keep it within one score? To me 4-8 or less fire ash, 5-7 one more year to get bowling 6 wins or more is a great job