Watching today’s games it almost defies the odds our program’s perennial lack of shooters, especially 3-ball shooters, and ballers. I guess you have to credit some of the coaches and their staff for having a great eye for putting together a roster, identifying talent and players who can compete, and developing and getting the best out of their roster.
Our program’s shooting prowess
- Thread starter Mr_Twister
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What is your explanation for our perennial lack of shooters and ballers? Add something to the thread besides an “Oh well”. Offer some insights.
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The key word here is "developing." On another note, there are hardly any teams in this tournament whose best players are guards who can't shoot.
Fine. I thought it was obvious.
We prioritize size and athleticism first and foremost to keep up with the major programs we play against. It’s a necessity because at the end of the day the majority of other programs who dont do so would not consistently make tournament appearances playing a real conference schedule. The reason Rutgers has gone without shooters is we are a perennial bottom feeder - we’re nearly last in the pecking order - we get the least skilled players out of high school that qualify size wise.
We could sacrifice size a have a couple of 6’ guards in the same back court and trot a 6’3 3 man out there or a 6’5 4man and get some shooting in the lineup, but defensively they’d get run out of the building in 20 conference games.
The difference right now between rutgers and a lot of these schools, is they have the star player who can carry the team and make others better and the complementary players play their roles to a tee, they have shooters who only shoot, they have defenders who only worry about defense, they have post players who only try to score low or rebound.
We have sanders, but we dont have the peices around him who have the talent to A fill their role and B the system in place to put them in a role they will excel in.
We have sanders, but we dont have the peices around him who have the talent to A fill their role and B the system in place to put them in a role they will excel in.
Rutgers won/loss record over decades has impacted recruiting in a negative way.The play makers that are seen on winning teams have chosen other schools while Rutgers was left with project type players who simply lack the skill set to play in a power conference.The best shooters/scorers at Rutgers have been guards who in some cases were under sized making them defensive liabilities.
Our 4 and 5s are back to the basket or in Freeman's case a bad shooter
Our 3 can't get shots off and is afraid to shoot
Our 2 is mostly needs a dribble to be effective....B1G tournament showed otherwise though :sunglasses:
Our 1 is a real bad shooter
That pretty much sums up why.
Watching Kentucky with a roster full of NBA players barely beat 4th place A10 Davidson because they can't make 3s.
You have to have a bare minimum 3 threats from deep and should really have 4.
Our 3 can't get shots off and is afraid to shoot
Our 2 is mostly needs a dribble to be effective....B1G tournament showed otherwise though :sunglasses:
Our 1 is a real bad shooter
That pretty much sums up why.
Watching Kentucky with a roster full of NBA players barely beat 4th place A10 Davidson because they can't make 3s.
You have to have a bare minimum 3 threats from deep and should really have 4.
I guess the off season has kicked in as masters of the obvious have taken command of discussion titles.
Fundamentals are not stressed at the lower levels. Especially on the AAU circuit. This leads to great athletes that can all run and jump but lack shooting and defensive technique. Very difficult to change poor technique this late in the game.
Agree with Patrick----bad recruiting
Maybe what was worse-----bad evaluating
I watch so many of these mid major teams with guys from the area that can play and you wonder-----did RU look at this guy ?
I saw the kid who is at Hartford Jason Dunne play about 10-12 times in HS.
About 6'5 with as nice a 3 point stroke as you'll see----he would get 15-20 minutes a game here without a doubt.
Thirty minutes from campus------I wonder if EJ looked ?
Maybe what was worse-----bad evaluating
I watch so many of these mid major teams with guys from the area that can play and you wonder-----did RU look at this guy ?
I saw the kid who is at Hartford Jason Dunne play about 10-12 times in HS.
About 6'5 with as nice a 3 point stroke as you'll see----he would get 15-20 minutes a game here without a doubt.
Thirty minutes from campus------I wonder if EJ looked ?
Ej and Flood had a lot in common when it came to recruiting. Tough to recruit from your couch...
Thanks to the folks who gave articulate input here, offering more than potshots. I am in the camp who think our biggest failures have been evaluating and recruiting. We do not need future NBA talent and players with ideal physical profiles to succeed. Sustained success is necessary before we re-try that tact.
I agree, especially after how the first 2 seasons played out. Coach P gets a pass on year one given the circumstances. Unfortunately we're now stuck with some players that aren't going to materialize into what we need.
The NCAA T really shows where we are lacking and it's everywhere. Every team has great guard play (ball control and under control, shooters and shot makers) and exceptional quickness. If there is no dominate center than the other bigs can also dribble and create shots in traffic. We have nobody like that now. Baker will never have that quickness, but if he can become a better shooter he would be perfect for our offense assuming we get a guard to compliment him.
Right now not sure we should be worrying about whether a recruit will match up to B1G caliber. As we've seen if you can't put the ball in the basket, it doesn't matter. Watching these games just reaffirms the fact that every team has three point shooters and not everyone is a HSAA. I think for us it's a recruiting philosophy problem and that has to change, at least short term. Although basketball can be a quicker fix I think we'll need the full 5 years to realize progress unless we find some super players that accelerate the process. One step at a time, but the steps should be getting bigger every year.
It's clear that we go through the same exact process of "why does this NCAA team have this/that etc.??
Nobody has seen South Dakota State prior to the tourney, knows who their coach is, where their players are from and it's "look at the shooters"....mind you, when Radford/Texas Southern/Lipscomb/Cal State Fullerton all get run out of the gym by 20+ points in the 1st round, I rarely see the posts complimenting those teams...it's picking the one team that springs an upset and saying "see, why can't we do that"....??.
It would be the equivalent of Quinnipiac making the NCAA's this year and if Peter Kiss goes for 17 points and knocks down 4 3's against a #2 or #3 seed, fans would be saying "how come we don't have him"???....maybe he's a 33 to 35% shooter from 3....then fans will say, he's not going to shoot that well, once he goes up a level or two.
What's missing is the level of coaching RU or a lot of teams face most nights....the preparation, scouting and breaking down film to find out what players can and can't do, is at the 9th power in most leagues....teams take away what you do best, most nights....in the NCAA's, it's much less likely an opponent has extensive research done on an opponent.
It's really been RU's fault for lack of consistent/program building players....instead, everyone wants the quick fix, which I understand....I'm confident RU will be built the right way and in a couple of years, other fans will be asking "why did we not get Geo Baker or Montez Mathis etc...."....??
The key is adding to those pieces, so RU is not just recruiting "shooters", that can't rebound/defend/run/jump or have the necessary size at this level.....It's the equivalent of judging Rutgers vs Purdue at MSG and thinking that's sustainable over 30 legitimate opponents, when the roster isn't yet capable or built playing at that level over 2-3 months....How that gets lost every March, is very strange....it's different small schools all making a run and I'm really happy to see it happen, but it's not reality of life in a major conference when it comes to shooters....if your shooter cannot do anything else, he's toast or a non factor....you need complete basketball players at this level....RU is building those, but lacks a lot of them....but it's coming.....
Nobody has seen South Dakota State prior to the tourney, knows who their coach is, where their players are from and it's "look at the shooters"....mind you, when Radford/Texas Southern/Lipscomb/Cal State Fullerton all get run out of the gym by 20+ points in the 1st round, I rarely see the posts complimenting those teams...it's picking the one team that springs an upset and saying "see, why can't we do that"....??.
It would be the equivalent of Quinnipiac making the NCAA's this year and if Peter Kiss goes for 17 points and knocks down 4 3's against a #2 or #3 seed, fans would be saying "how come we don't have him"???....maybe he's a 33 to 35% shooter from 3....then fans will say, he's not going to shoot that well, once he goes up a level or two.
What's missing is the level of coaching RU or a lot of teams face most nights....the preparation, scouting and breaking down film to find out what players can and can't do, is at the 9th power in most leagues....teams take away what you do best, most nights....in the NCAA's, it's much less likely an opponent has extensive research done on an opponent.
It's really been RU's fault for lack of consistent/program building players....instead, everyone wants the quick fix, which I understand....I'm confident RU will be built the right way and in a couple of years, other fans will be asking "why did we not get Geo Baker or Montez Mathis etc...."....??
The key is adding to those pieces, so RU is not just recruiting "shooters", that can't rebound/defend/run/jump or have the necessary size at this level.....It's the equivalent of judging Rutgers vs Purdue at MSG and thinking that's sustainable over 30 legitimate opponents, when the roster isn't yet capable or built playing at that level over 2-3 months....How that gets lost every March, is very strange....it's different small schools all making a run and I'm really happy to see it happen, but it's not reality of life in a major conference when it comes to shooters....if your shooter cannot do anything else, he's toast or a non factor....you need complete basketball players at this level....RU is building those, but lacks a lot of them....but it's coming.....
Player development has been the biggest failure in this program. When you don't get players with ideal physical profiles or NBA level talent, development becomes essential. The one thing that a lot of these mid-majors pulling these upsets have in common are rosters of players who develop and improve year after year.
Bro hug for this post. There's a reason It's called March Madness. It's outside the norm. It's eye candy. Not to diminish the effort and execution of these lower seeds and their coaching staffs, but... well, what you said.
I feel bad because i think Tony Bennett builds his program the right way but they dont have anywhere near elite talent...in some ways UVA is going to go into history as this #1 seed that is the 1st to lose to a #16, but it's taking away from one of the best rebuilds in my opinion....UVA has like 5 or 6 seed NCAA talent, coached up defensively to a #1 seed....as crazy as it sounds, it was why a ton of people likely had Arizona or Kentucky possibly knocking off UVA in Sweet 16 round.
UVA has 3 to 4 good shooters BUT none of that does any good if you fall behind, and suddenly have to actually guard players man to man and stay in front of quicker players....Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy are lethal shooters if left open...neither could guard players from UMBC in space....
I am not against "shooters", but it's the biggest myth fans have about college basketball....I watched KState smother Creighton for 40 minutes, because shooters on Creighton cant guard well consistently enough and dont do enough things defensively over long stretches....teams with complete basketball players win games against different styles of play...period
So true. I was just talking to a UVA fan about their rebuild a couple days ago. The conversation started when he saw the R magnet on my car and said "You guys have a pretty good team. I saw you in the Big Ten tournament."