What is Chris Ash's Vision??

[NBKnight]

He has a very deliberate grinder approach that is a mid-western mentality and it’s not something people in our area are used to. That’s the biggest difference to me. Doesn’t mean there is a problem.

Although, while style maybe a little different, his approach is not much different from GS.

 

[NBKnight]

Quite a lot actually, and even if it hasn’t been 10 years there’s plenty of coaches in the big 10 alone that it seems they are long term committed to the team. Meyer, Franklin, Dantonio, Kirk Ferentz has been at Iowa forever, Paul Chryst even in 2 years has established himself at Wisconsin and is what I would consider a 10 year plan there. All these other coaches seem to talk much more about the future and long term success of their respected programs, all I hear ash say is “we’re going to work to get better every day”... which imo is the most annoying nothing answer a coach can give. I have no idea of what ash’s idea of getting better is... does that mean the goal is to just be bowl eligible and field a competitive team? Or does Rutgers actually want to compete with the OSU, PSU, and michigan’s of the conference?

I doubt Franklin is there ten years.

 

[jcs321]

No, it is not.

There are other coaches who have built up exactly the way I told you. Do some research.

You have to coach up/player develop/ game plan and get the underrated recruits that elites don't want.

It is not easy but neither is life for lower tier programs trying to become mid-tier. It has been done many times.

It really doesn't happen in a conference like the Big 10 east which has 4 teams who will be preseason top 15 and a maryland team that has Under Armour backing it and a top 30 recruiting class coming in.

The truth is if Rutgers is ever going to get to iowa/northwestern level, they are going to need a coach like ferentz or pat fitzgerald that actually exudes a desire to be there long term, in tune, Rutgers will start to get more of NJ's top talent. Of course RU isn't going to land them all, but if RU wants to legitimately compete in the Big 10, they have to land minimum of 4 of the top 10 NJ recruits. 224-0 in 4 games doesn't happen soley bc of bad coaching, there's a talent gap there wider than the panama canal. Again, put Bill Belichick on the sidelines, hell resurrect Vince Lombardi and put him on the sideline for all I care, if you think a coach in this conference is going to be able to compete week in and week out with the talent those other schools have while recruiting "under the radar" guys who are essentially the other schools scraps, you are only fooling yourself

 

[RU2055]

Nope, u can win with coaching

How did Nick Saban do with the Dolphins when the talent level was equal?

 

[jcs321]

How did Nick Saban do with the Dolphins when the talent level was equal?

This^^^

How about Chip Kelly? lol

 

[SoCalNYC]

I doubt Franklin is there ten years.

I think Franklin will definitely leave before a downturn. Results are cyclical.

 

[njknightsfan]

Chris Ash is who he is, he is a hardworking mid-western coach with a tremendous experience as a DC. He has a plan on how to build a team, he said he has been planning and learning up to where he became head coach at RU. Is he the right man for the job or is this job over is head? There are many positives but also many red flags as he goes into year 3 of his regime: 3 OC's in 3 years, turnover in the coaching staff, mediocre recruiting and the positives had to be the defense showed improvement from year 1, he has recruited good QB's and if one of them can come thru that will go a long way with having McNulty as OC.

I'm up in the air on if he's a good hire or not. If you compare him to his peers he would be ranked at the bottom of the BIG coaches. When I listen to him talk I don't get inspired or a feeling that he's going to get it done, I don't know how to say it but I just don't get pumped or have confidence that things are going to get better ( I hope I'm wrong! ).

At the end of the day, this year is going to be the most critical one for him, the blowouts have to be a thing of the past, the defense needs to show improvement and the offense needs to show a pulse, can't be a Mehringer or even Kill's offense left much to be desired. Good news for Coach Ash is expectations are low, if he gets to 6-6 and a minor bowl game, people will be praising him and as some mentioned, other job offers will open up.

 

[RutHut_rivals]

It really doesn't happen in a conference like the Big 10 east which has 4 teams who will be preseason top 15 and a maryland team that has Under Armour backing it and a top 30 recruiting class coming in.

The truth is if Rutgers is ever going to get to iowa/northwestern level, they are going to need a coach like ferentz or pat fitzgerald that actually exudes a desire to be there long term, in tune, Rutgers will start to get more of NJ's top talent. Of course RU isn't going to land them all, but if RU wants to legitimately compete in the Big 10, they have to land minimum of 4 of the top 10 NJ recruits. 224-0 in 4 games doesn't happen soley bc of bad coaching, there's a talent gap there wider than the panama canal. Again, put Bill Belichick on the sidelines, hell resurrect Vince Lombardi and put him on the sideline for all I care, if you think a coach in this conference is going to be able to compete week in and week out with the talent those other schools have while recruiting "under the radar" guys who are essentially the other schools scraps, you are only fooling yourself

But jcs, isn't that an excuse just to bash Ash?

 

[NBKnight]

I think Franklin will definitely leave before a downturn. Results are cyclical.

I don’t see Durkin, Fleck, Lovie or Brohm staying ten years at there schools.

This is a made up issue.

 

[SoCalNYC]

It really doesn't happen in a conference like the Big 10 east which has 4 teams who will be preseason top 15 and a maryland team that has Under Armour backing it and a top 30 recruiting class coming in.

The truth is if Rutgers is ever going to get to iowa/northwestern level, they are going to need a coach like ferentz or pat fitzgerald that actually exudes a desire to be there long term, in tune, Rutgers will start to get more of NJ's top talent. Of course RU isn't going to land them all, but if RU wants to legitimately compete in the Big 10, they have to land minimum of 4 of the top 10 NJ recruits. 224-0 in 4 games doesn't happen soley bc of bad coaching, there's a talent gap there wider than the panama canal. Again, put Bill Belichick on the sidelines, hell resurrect Vince Lombardi and put him on the sideline for all I care, if you think a coach in this conference is going to be able to compete week in and week out with the talent those other schools have while recruiting "under the radar" guys who are essentially the other schools scraps, you are only fooling yourself

Recruiting absolutely matters. Underrated means getting solid 3 stars that elites dont want and coaching them. If your coach can't recruit or coach (and many cant) then time is up.

Frost, Durkin etc are good examples of new guys getting it done on the trail. Results are TBD because I think it takes few years to see own recruits on the field.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

Yes he sees an opportunity that may be too big and too complex for him

 

[SoCalNYC]

I don’t see Durkin, Fleck, Lovie or Brohm staying ten years at there schools.

This is a made up issue.

I doubt they are there in 10 years.

 

[jcs321]

I think Franklin will definitely leave before a downturn. Results are cyclical.

I really don’t think he does. The guy is from Pa and there really isn’t an abundance of jobs better than PSU right now, at least none with openings.

I get this board has a hatred of Franklin and psu, but the truth is he has been spectacular for them and a wonderful brand ambassador, look no further than their results on the field and on the recruiting trail if you don’t believe me. If he does end up leaving, it will be good news for rutgers

 

[NBKnight]

I really don’t think he does. The guy is from Pa and there really isn’t an abundance of jobs better than PSU right now, at least none with openings.

I get this board has a hatred of Franklin and psu, but the truth is he has been spectacular for them and a wonderful brand ambassador, look no further than their results on the field and on the recruiting trail if you don’t believe me. If he does end up leaving, it will be good news for rutgers

N F L

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Al why didn't you just title this with your TRUE thoughts:

"WHY didn't we hire Al "The Golden Goose" Golden?"

 

[SoCalNYC]

N F L

Edit : meant to quote jcs.

Things get stale. I have known Franklin since his time in DMV. Much longer than most here or UPS even knew his name. I have met him. Great in person. Very likable, social and great recruiter.

BUT the guy is a VERY smart social climber and gets ahead of a downturn. Nothing wrong because every industry has those people. He will NOT be there 10 years later. If you want to meet and place a big ten year wager...lets do it (lol).

He also capitalized on Moorehead, who covered his lack of coaching skills. Moorehead IMO was the most brilliant hire in CFB and a brilliant OC.

I don't think he is trash like others here. Yes, Ped state does have ethical issues of a cult #JoeKnew. But I dont think Franklin is trash at all.

 

[SoCalNYC]

I really don’t think he does. The guy is from Pa and there really isn’t an abundance of jobs better than PSU right now, at least none with openings.

I get this board has a hatred of Franklin and psu, but the truth is he has been spectacular for them and a wonderful brand ambassador, look no further than their results on the field and on the recruiting trail if you don’t believe me. If he does end up leaving, it will be good news for rutgers

Meant to quote you. Read my other post about Franklin.

 

[jcs321]

I don’t see Durkin, Fleck, Lovie or Brohm staying ten years at there schools.

This is a made up issue.

Neither do I, maybe Durkin bc Maryland has Under Armor but I don't believe those other coaches you mentioned will be at their respected schools very long. Those coaches are also at schools that I do not expect to realistically compete in the big ten, so thanks for making my point for me I suppose?

 

[SoCalNYC]

Neither do I, maybe Durkin bc Maryland has Under Armor but I don't believe those other coaches you mentioned will be at their respected schools very long. Those coaches are also at schools that I do not expect to realistically compete in the big ten, so thanks for making my point for me I suppose?

UA does not micromanage or support UMD to the extent this board claims.

It just does not. Plank has other priorities.

I do think if Durkin is some brilliant hire then MD can keep him but would cost them big time because the elite jobs will try to outbid. I think Durkin is a solid recruiter but TBD as a coach. The Matt Canada hire could turn out to a be game changer with the incoming talent.

Btw, Plank is focused back at UA (he went off doing his own things but is back). The stock is ticking up since.

 

[jcs321]

Meant to quote you. Read my other post about Franklin.

I hear what you are saying however none of the other jobs he has had have been "marquee jobs" so to speak. Prior to PSU he was a position coach and coordinater the majority of his career, only a HC at Vandy. The guy is from Pa and name another marquee non nfl job in the northeast? I don't believe he would go to the NFL because his strongest attribute is recruiting, take that away from him, he would tank as a coach in the NFL and I think he knows that.

The other thing is when you listen to him speak (and yes, a lot of this is scripted) can you find a coach in D1 football at a major school that talks as much about academics and education? I genuinely can't and genuinely don't believe he will go the the NFL. I think that's what a lot of fans of Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, BC and the surrounding schools are hoping for, however I don't think it's going to happe... just my opinion of course

I agree Moorhead was a terrific hire and was a huge part of their success, it also helped that for the last 2-3 years they've had the best offensive player in CFB. I don't expect PSU to be as good this year but I don't expect a major falloff either.

 

[SoCalNYC]

I hear what you are saying however none of the other jobs he has had have been "marquee jobs" so to speak. Prior to PSU he was a position coach and coordinater the majority of his career, only a HC at Vandy. The guy is from Pa and name another marquee non nfl job in the northeast? I don't believe he would go to the NFL because his strongest attribute is recruiting, take that away from him, he would tank as a coach in the NFL and I think he knows that.

The other thing is when you listen to him speak (and yes, a lot of this is scripted) can you find a coach in D1 football at a major school that talks as much about academics and education? I genuinely can't and genuinely don't believe he will go the the NFL. I think that's what a lot of fans of Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, BC and the surrounding schools are hoping for, however I don't think it's going to happe... just my opinion of course

I agree Moorhead was a terrific hire and was a huge part of their success, it also helped that for the last 2-3 years they've had the best offensive player in CFB. I don't expect PSU to be as good this year but I don't expect a major falloff either.

Agree with all you said. I just feel that 10 years is a long time and he likes to stay ahead. We shall see. 2028 is a long time man.

Also agree they will not fall off the map. He is recruiting EXTREMELY well. But I have also seen a certain school with my own eyes (cough USC) recruit many 5 stars and completely trend down due to hot OC or great HC leaving. It is overnight.

Coaching is everything when going against teams with similar talent. USC, OSU, Clemson etc.

 

[IL Lusciato]

To always be hunting .we aren't good enough to talk about winning anything. We are trash .Just be in the hunt to even be in the conversation.

Right?!? Right?!? Who's with me?!!

 

[mildone_rivals]

Ash's vision is probably 20/20, at least with corrective lenses.

It does seem, however, that certain elements among our fan-base are pretty myopic sometimes.

 

[NBKnight]

Neither do I, maybe Durkin bc Maryland has Under Armor but I don't believe those other coaches you mentioned will be at their respected schools very long. Those coaches are also at schools that I do not expect to realistically compete in the big ten, so thanks for making my point for me I suppose?

Is that because of the coaches or because they are not OSU or Michigan?

I don’t even think Harbaugh will make ten years. It is just not an issue.

 

[SoCalNYC]

Alot of also has to do with the University / Admin.

Do they have the passion to match the fans here?

Are they interested in putting a great product or just cash checks?

Full B1G share will not mean jack if that mentality continues.

 

[RutHut_rivals]

Ash's vision is probably 20/20, at least with corrective lenses.

It does seem, however, that certain elements among our fan-base are pretty myopic sometimes.

Confucius say, "vague posts often have some truth to them"

 

[AreYouNUTS]

 

[Block R]

The point is I don’t think it’s a good move for a big ten program to be hiring a guy who would jump ship in a heartbeat the minute a ‘better’ offer came in....I have never heard anything from chris ash that would indicate he wants to be at Rutgers for a long time...recruits notice this

You keep saying this like it is a proven fact yet I see little evidence to support this contention. I disagree with you as Ash doesn't strike me as a bolt-at-the-first-opportunity kind of guy and I haven't heard anything that indicates Chris Ash would not want to be at Rutgers for a long time either. If the benchmark in terms of tenure for every new coach we hire is Greg Schiano then you're always going to be disappointed. Down the road I could see Ash potentially leaving us, if offered, for a job like Ohio St or Iowa. Not that I think these are realistic scenarios but if they did occur it would mean he's achieved meaningful success here in which case the job will be substantially more attractive for the next crop of candidates. That's a good problem to have.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

vision is winning football games? lol....is that what Ash has been doing, how he's been coaching? No one, NO ONE watching will say he's coached to win.

guy is gone in a few years so start thinking about who is next

It will be a similar guy. These are the kinds of football coaches RU hires.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

How did Nick Saban do with the Dolphins when the talent level was equal?

Has Alabama had so much more talent than LSU, Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, and Clemson over the last few years?

 

[RUbacker]

You keep saying this like it is a proven fact yet I see little evidence to support this contention. I disagree with you as Ash doesn't strike me as a bolt-at-the-first-opportunity kind of guy and I haven't heard anything that indicates Chris Ash would not want to be at Rutgers for a long time either. If the benchmark in terms of tenure for every new coach we hire is Greg Schiano then you're always going to be disappointed. Down the road I could see Ash potentially leaving us, if offered, for a job like Ohio St or Iowa. Not that I think these are realistic scenarios but if they did occur it would mean he's achieved meaningful success here in which case the job will be substantially more attractive for the next crop of candidates. That's a good problem to have.

I see ash taking an Ohio st type job down the road. He has been groomed for it.

 

[RUonBrain]

The Ash Bashers have gone from the, “He has no vision” argument to, “He won’t stay for 10 years.”

I didn’t think you liked Ash.
Why would you want him to stay for 10 years?

Plus...

Any team that is perceived to be lower on the pecking order is more likely to have their coach move on to higher profile jobs if they are successful.

Should UCF not have hired Scott Frost?
Did anyone ever think he would stay at UCF for 10 years?

SMH

 

[RU2055]

Has Alabama had so much more talent than LSU, Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, and Clemson over the last few years?

Saban is a good coach. I'm not denying that. But you need players too. You need both. That's the point.

 

[jcs321]

UA does not micromanage or support UMD to the extent this board claims. It just does not because it has other priorities. I do think if Durkin is some brilliant hire then MD can keep him but would cost them big time. I think Durkin is a solid recruiter but TBD as a coach. The Matt Canada hire could turn out to a be game changer with the incoming talent.

Btw, Plank is focused back at UA (he went off doing his own things but is back). The stock is ticking up since.

http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=29700&ATCLID=211700622

Welp, this happened 2 days ago.... I live in Maryland. My house is 30 min from where Kevin Plank lives, I have 5 uncles who went to maryland and all are members of the terripin club and alumni

Agree with all you said. I just feel that 10 years is a long time and he likes to stay ahead. We shall see. 2028 is a long time man.

Also agree they will not fall off the map. He is recruiting EXTREMELY well. But I have also seen a certain school with my own eyes (cough USC) recruit many 5 stars and completely trend down due to hot OC or great HC leaving. It is overnight.

Coaching is everything when going against teams with similar talent. USC, OSU, Clemson etc.

I hear that, I just love the qb mcsorely. That guy is as gritty as it gets and as he’ll be a senior next year I still think psu gets 9-10 wins realistically

 

[jcs321]

Is that because of the coaches or because they are not OSU or Michigan?

I don’t even think Harbaugh will make ten years. It is just not an issue.

I dont think harbaugh makes it 10 years either. Never once did I mention him as a “10 year plan” coach. There isn’t a shadier more slimeball coach in CFB and I believe next year he jumps back to the nfl

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

UA does not micromanage or support UMD to the extent this board claims.

It just does not. Plank has other priorities.

I do think if Durkin is some brilliant hire then MD can keep him but would cost them big time because the elite jobs will try to outbid. I think Durkin is a solid recruiter but TBD as a coach. The Matt Canada hire could turn out to a be game changer with the incoming talent.

Btw, Plank is focused back at UA (he went off doing his own things but is back). The stock is ticking up since.

UA's stock is ticking up because Kevin Durant hasn't trashed their sneakers lately.

 

[jcs321]

The Ash Bashers have gone from the, “He has no vision” argument to, “He won’t stay for 10 years.”

I didn’t think you liked Ash.
Why would you want him to stay for 10 years?

Plus...

Any team that is perceived to be lower on the pecking order is more likely to have their coach move on to higher profile jobs if they are successful.

Should UCF not hirer Scott Frost?
Did anyone ever think he would stay at UCF for 10 years?

SMH

You are missing the point. Rutgers is not in a small conference and is not landing the talent required to catch “lightning in a bottle” and all the sudden get on par with 4 of the teams within the same division. Yes Scott frost was a great hire at UCF, so was Brian Kelly at Cincinnati, same with Mark Richt at Temple and even urban Meyer for Utah... what you aren’t grasping is none of those guys had to compete in the big ten east. I promise you if any of them were playing OSU, psu, mich, etc week in and week out they would not have the success they had.

It’s quite simple for me, if Rutgers is ever going to really establish itself in this conference playing against this competition l, it has to have more stability. The never ending rotation of OC’s, lack of forward thinking and constant “we work to get better every day” nothing answers coupled with the fact that I believe ash is a poor game day coach at best, plus is bringing in approximately the 50th ranked recruiting class (give or take depending on the source) does not give me the warm and fuzzies for the future.... RU is miles behind in the division in terms of facilities, money, tradition, etc and I believe the only way to really become competitive is to take the mich st/Iowa model of a constant head coach. Recruits like knowing who they will play for their whole tenure, plus the longer a coach stays at a school the longer and better relationships he establishes with area HS coaches which ultimately is going to get ru more of the jersey 4* kids.

It’s crazy to think that a guy who has never indicated a desire to stay long term (which is something college coaches do often actually, even if it’s lip speak) is going to catch fire in this conference and become an 8-9 win team. That will take years and years realistically, 6-7 honestly. I’m looking for a coach who seems interested in taking that journey and leading the charge with not only the team but the students, alumni and doners. I feel like we see more of Hobbs trying to be the face instead of ash which I don’t like. That doesn’t happen at Alabama, PSU, OSU, Clemson, etc so why Rutgers? Couple this with ash’s lack of ability as a gameday coach plus alarming recruiting... I would just rather bring in a guy who will add more stability. And no if you haven’t figured it out, I don’t believe ash is that guy. 224-0 in 4 games should never happen. I don’t care that it was floods recruits or any of that, if you have a lick of talent as a gameday coach, you find a way to stop the bleeding

 

[jcs321]

Has Alabama had so much more talent than LSU, Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, and Clemson over the last few years?

Yes actually they have. Prior to 2018 Alabama had the #1 ranked recruiting class for something like 4-5 years in a row. They absolutely have more talent than any team in the country

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Yes actually they have. Prior to 2018 Alabama had the #1 ranked recruiting class for something like 4-5 years in a row. They absolutely have more talent than any team in the country

The gap in pure talent between Alabama and other elite programs isn't really all that great. Alabama has dominated college football because Saban and his staff are better at getting those highly rated recruits to produce on the field year in and year out.

 

[RUonBrain]

You are missing the point. Rutgers is not in a small conference and is not landing the talent required to catch “lightning in a bottle” and all the sudden get on par with 4 of the teams within the same division. Yes Scott frost was a great hire at UCF, so was Brian Kelly at Cincinnati, same with Mark Richt at Temple and even urban Meyer for Utah... what you aren’t grasping is none of those guys had to compete in the big ten east. I promise you if any of them were playing OSU, psu, mich, etc week in and week out they would not have the success they had.

It’s quite simple for me, if Rutgers is ever going to really establish itself in this conference playing against this competition l, it has to have more stability. The never ending rotation of OC’s, lack of forward thinking and constant “we work to get better every day” nothing answers coupled with the fact that I believe ash is a poor game day coach at best, plus is bringing in approximately the 50th ranked recruiting class (give or take depending on the source) does not give me the warm and fuzzies for the future.... RU is miles behind in the division in terms of facilities, money, tradition, etc and I believe the only way to really become competitive is to take the mich st/Iowa model of a constant head coach. Recruits like knowing who they will play for their whole tenure, plus the longer a coach stays at a school the longer and better relationships he establishes with area HS coaches which ultimately is going to get ru more of the jersey 4* kids.

It’s crazy to think that a guy who has never indicated a desire to stay long term (which is something college coaches do often actually, even if it’s lip speak) is going to catch fire in this conference and become an 8-9 win team. That will take years and years realistically, 6-7 honestly. I’m looking for a coach who seems interested in taking that journey and leading the charge with not only the team but the students, alumni and doners. I feel like we see more of Hobbs trying to be the face instead of ash which I don’t like. That doesn’t happen at Alabama, PSU, OSU, Clemson, etc so why Rutgers? Couple this with ash’s lack of ability as a gameday coach plus alarming recruiting... I would just rather bring in a guy who will add more stability. And no if you haven’t figured it out, I don’t believe ash is that guy. 224-0 in 4 games should never happen. I don’t care that it was floods recruits or any of that, if you have a lick of talent as a gameday coach, you find a way to stop the bleeding

WTH are you blabbing about?

You want Rutgers to hire a guy who will be here “long term”.

Who the F might that guy be?