Ash extended thru 2022 :

DHajekRC84

Heisman
Aug 9, 2001
30,708
19,815
0
In reading the article it appears that this was essentially inevitable -
Ash's original contract - "assured he would have years added to his deal equal to the term of any NCAA sanctions placed on Rutgers as a result of an investigation preceding his arrival."
Now that the investigation has concluded and the sanctions established, the number of additional years are known with clarity.

So the original contract had this extender element already baked into it - - even if Hobbs had not made this move - and instead had decided to cut Ash loose, the price tag would be what ever remains of the original five years - plus the additional two years of sanction duration.
looks like all the debate is for not....so if he was due the 2 years regardless, better to put it into a contract and get whatever recruiting benefit it provides.

at first I was looking for a rock to paint....now, it is what it is... good luck to us.
 
Dec 17, 2008
45,214
16,775
0
looks like all the debate is for not....so if he was due the 2 years regardless, better to put it into a contract and get whatever recruiting benefit it provides.

at first I was looking for a rock to paint....now, it is what it is... good luck to us.
[roll]
 

D.I.P.

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2016
67
142
0
If not for for the Tennessee fiasco last night i would have said we have the 2nd worst fanbase in College Football behind only Ped State (for different but obvious reasons). Congrats we are now the 3rd worst. So many delusional, dysfunctional, self-hating, miserable, know it all (nothing) "fans" in here. Truly eye opening. Most people just don't understand how big time college athletics work. SAD
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
I find it hard to believe that Harris plays football next year, thinking he goes baseball 100% gets drafted, and fully guaranteed baseball contract.
He might not play FB next year, no knowing until it happens. However even he was quoted recently as saying he wants to play both ways next year. So at least at the moment, he's thinking about staying and playing football.

But sure, it could change.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
The WR routes got significantly better but their move off the lines are still not B10 ready. They also see the windows late, and with our QBs seeing things a bit late, it is not a good combination. They have legit speed they just need to get quicker feet, and learn to run their routes better.

Most routes in college are choice routes reading the defense. This takes time to develop.
I know next to nothing about football, being a life-long soccer guy w/a lot of coaching experience there. But what you described is what I thought I was seeing when rewatching games on DVR. We're did seem to be improving some, but things still take too long to evolve after the snap.

I don't think we'll be world-beaters in the passing game next season, but I do think we'll be better than we are this year. We better be. LOL
 

ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,690
0
But considering it is rare for a football coach to go into a season with less than 4 years remaining on his contract, and that would put him at a disadvantage recruiting-wise, I think it is safe to assume that Hobbs would have given Ash at least a 1 year extension.

An extension would also appeal to other coaches on staff and any that might be sought after in the future. Maybe some coaches plan on leaving and there needed to be more stability to be competitive for new hires
 
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
I like Ash. I really do. I just don’t think you extend him now. I would have waited until the end of next season. 2018 could go either way for us.
The timing has to do with recruiting. The extension shows he'll be around which, for an incoming recruit that likes Ash and crew, shows stability and helps take away a negative recruiting weapon from coaches of other teams.

An argument could be made that players might not come because Ash is going to be here, but I suspect that to be unlikely at this point. Might happen, but probably far less often, in any player considering coming here in the first place, than players who have been recruited by Ash and crew and worry they won't be here.
 

Scarlet_Monster

All-Conference
Jan 8, 2011
6,164
4,234
0
I want some of what you're smoking.

Well to be fair;

Time of Possession is way down

Passing is barely any better than it was last year.

2017 = 18PPG 120th Overall
2016 = 15.7PPG 127th Overall

Scoring is barely up as well.

For how bad last year, this year should've seen any sort of increase.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,234
44,313
113
Coaching salaries are insane, the profit motive is huge, and integrity and fairness are all but gone in big time college athletics. Either we hold our noses and do what everyone else does and extend him for doubling his win total and getting 3 B1G wins or we drop back to 1AA.
 
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
Obviously we don't know what Hobbs would have done if the extension was not required by the original contract (which Hobbs agreed to).

But considering it is rare for a football coach to go into a season with less than 4 years remaining on his contract, and that would put him at a disadvantage recruiting-wise, I think it is safe to assume that Hobbs would have given Ash at least a 1 year extension.

The reality is that Hobbs was not going to fire Ash at the end of this season, nor make comments indicating that Ash is on the hot seat if he underperforms next season. I also think it is unlikely that Hobbs fires Ash at the end of next season, unless Ash only manages 2 wins combined with a ton of blowouts.

If Hobbs had given Ash a 1 year extension this year, and does not fire Ash next year, then he would give Ash another 1 year extension, which puts us into the same position that we're in now.

So the only real risk is if Hobbs decides he wants to fire Ash next year, and I'm guessing Hobbs has already decided that is not likely.
Exactly. It's not rocket science but the haters and the chronically impatient just don't want to hear it.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
Well to be fair;

Time of Possession is way down

Passing is barely any better than it was last year.

2017 = 18PPG 120th Overall
2016 = 15.7PPG 127th Overall

Scoring is barely up as well.

For how bad last year, this year should've seen any sort of increase.
I'm not saying it was good. Just that, overall, it was good enough to help us win some Big Ten games we didn't win last season. We definitely had a couple WTF games where we should've played better (EMU, Indiana). Those are on the coaching staff (Ash said as much) and they certainly had a negative impact on the offensive stats.
 

Scarlet_Scourge

Heisman
May 25, 2012
26,524
13,604
0
Twitter reaction has been overwhelmingly positive about this news.

The biggest and most positive changes to our beloved football program have mostly been behind the scenes, it is only a matter of time before that translates to bowl games. The coaches are off recruiting today, so you all better believe that this news will help a lot.
 

gef21

All-American
Jan 25, 2005
4,575
9,397
0
I know next to nothing about football, being a life-long soccer guy w/a lot of coaching experience there. But what you described is what I thought I was seeing when rewatching games on DVR. We're did seem to be improving some, but things still take too long to evolve after the snap.

I don't think we'll be world-beaters in the passing game next season, but I do think we'll be better than we are this year. We better be. LOL

The hardest thing for WRs coming into college is the transition to reading defenses. Very rarely in high school do you have true choice routes or multiple choice routes on each play. At the college level you may have 2 or 3 choices at the line and 2 or 3 choices during the route. We absolutely struggled with this and slimmed the play book down. They may not have been given a choice and when they are told to run a slant they run a slant and it might not be open.
 

miketd1

Heisman
Sep 26, 2006
59,714
13,916
66
@gef21
I don't understand why we couldn't just go to the 3-step quick game.
  • That would help out the line since they wouldn't need to hold their blocks too long.
  • It would help the QB b/c it's 1-2-3-throw.
  • It would help the receivers because the routes are (mostly) fixed.
Yet we insist on a vertical stem passing game.

Hell, what would be the harm in just running mesh/snag/scat exclusively?

Outside an interception, it couldn't possibly get worse than where we are at the moment. I'm assuming it's because Gio/Bolin were QB1/QB2 and lack the requisite arm strength to throw to the flat with enough zip?
 
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
The hardest thing for WRs coming into college is the transition to reading defenses. Very rarely in high school do you have true choice routes or multiple choice routes on each play. At the college level you may have 2 or 3 choices at the line and 2 or 3 choices during the route. We absolutely struggled with this and slimmed the play book down. They may not have been given a choice and when they are told to run a slant they run a slant and it might not be open.
I wondered about that last thing. How much choice are our WRs being given? I know Kill made some comments pretty early on about simplifying things.

In soccer, dual recognition by the first attacker (the player with the ball) and the support players (those nearby) as to the correct angles, distance and timing of runs made by those support players in order to provide easy outlets to the first attacker is critical to strong attacking soccer. Each time the ball moves to another player, the movement must adjust and start the recognition and reaction process again.

Novices to soccer think it's all about what the player with the ball does. But it's actually much more about what all the players do off the ball that leads to good scoring chances. Great teams make it seem effortless and easy. But it's actually really hard to get right and requires nonstop movement by many players.

I see a lot of parallels with the passing game in football (and basketball). I would think that the QB and WRs have to share some tactical awareness based on what the D is doing pre-snap and then early after the snap. And they have to be on the same page about where to be and when. Then, knowing what needs to be done, just like in soccer, it requires the players to have the physicality to get it done.

Anyway, I suspect the off-season, the Spring, and next year's preseason training will lead to quite a bit of improvement. I think bringing in a QB coach who also can help with offensive schemes and can work with players down on the field with Kill sits up in the booth would be helpful.
 

RUchip

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2010
27,603
1,505
0
The timing has to do with recruiting. The extension shows he'll be around which, for an incoming recruit that likes Ash and crew, shows stability and helps take away a negative recruiting weapon from coaches of other teams.

An argument could be made that players might not come because Ash is going to be here, but I suspect that to be unlikely at this point. Might happen, but probably far less often, in any player considering coming here in the first place, than players who have been recruited by Ash and crew and worry they won't be here.
Players should never commit to a coach. Commit to the school.
 

RUinPinehurst

All-American
Aug 27, 2011
8,409
7,932
113
We’re going to go bowling next year, some how between now and the season opener in 2018 we’re going to find an offense..amazing
This statement has nothing to do with Ash’s extension, I’m happy for him and the program.

We just don’t have the players, and we damn sure won’t in one year

Sheesh... think what you are telling all those young men who are committed and working hard, training year-round, and playing to the best of their abilities, all while going to class and studying and making the grades. Let's support them. All of them.

We recruit and sign the best players we can. Always. We recruit and sign the best staff we can. Always. Our focus should be on player development, optimizing our current talent, while recruiting the best high school players available to us. We are making progress.
 

gef21

All-American
Jan 25, 2005
4,575
9,397
0
I wondered about that last thing. How much choice are our WRs being given? I know Kill made some comments pretty early on about simplifying things.

In soccer, dual recognition by the first attacker (the player with the ball) and the support players (those nearby) as to the correct angles, distance and timing of runs made by those support players in order to provide easy outlets to the first attacker is critical to strong attacking soccer. Each time the ball moves to another player, the movement must adjust and start the recognition and reaction process again.

Novices to soccer think it's all about what the player with the ball does. But it's actually much more about what all the players do off the ball that leads to good scoring chances. Great teams make it seem effortless and easy. But it's actually really hard to get right and requires nonstop movement by many players.

I see a lot of parallels with the passing game in football (and basketball). I would think that the QB and WRs have to share some tactical awareness based on what the D is doing pre-snap and then early after the snap. And they have to be on the same page about where to be and when. Then, knowing what needs to be done, just like in soccer, it requires the players to have the physicality to get it done.

Anyway, I suspect the off-season, the Spring, and next year's preseason training will lead to quite a bit of improvement. I think bringing in a QB coach who also can help with offensive schemes and can work with players down on the field with Kill sits up in the booth would be helpful.

It is all about reaction to what defense the are running, where they line up, and what they do once the ball is snapped. The QB and WR need to be on the same page on reading the defense in order to hit any kind of timing pattern.
 

gef21

All-American
Jan 25, 2005
4,575
9,397
0
@gef21
I don't understand why we couldn't just go to the 3-step quick game.
  • That would help out the line since they wouldn't need to hold their blocks too long.
  • It would help the QB b/c it's 1-2-3-throw.
  • It would help the receivers because the routes are (mostly) fixed.
Yet we insist on a vertical stem passing game.

Hell, what would be the harm in just running mesh/snag/scat exclusively?

Outside an interception, it couldn't possibly get worse than where we are at the moment. I'm assuming it's because Gio/Bolin were QB1/QB2 and lack the requisite arm strength to throw to the flat with enough zip?

3 step game is very hard when teams are playing press man against us. Multiple time this year teams went man cover 1 and man cover zero. Very hard to throw slants, and even outs, against coverage like that. Need to beat them vertically to keep them honest and put the safeties back over the top.

If teams came out and sat in a cover 2 or cover 3 shell against us sure the 3 step game would be big but jammed at LOS throws that all off.
 

miketd1

Heisman
Sep 26, 2006
59,714
13,916
66
3 step game is very hard when teams are playing press man against us. Multiple time this year teams went man cover 1 and man cover zero. Very hard to throw slants, and even outs, against coverage like that. Need to beat them vertically to keep them honest and put the safeties back over the top.

If teams came out and sat in a cover 2 or cover 3 shell against us sure the 3 step game would be big but jammed at LOS throws that all off.
But you can play "games" with press happy teams. Like bunch sets and creative motion.

Maybe one of the receivers is the RB releasing to the flat.

I mean I've seen "inferior" teams do it to us...
 

gef21

All-American
Jan 25, 2005
4,575
9,397
0
I wondered about that last thing. How much choice are our WRs being given? I know Kill made some comments pretty early on about simplifying things.

In soccer, dual recognition by the first attacker (the player with the ball) and the support players (those nearby) as to the correct angles, distance and timing of runs made by those support players in order to provide easy outlets to the first attacker is critical to strong attacking soccer. Each time the ball moves to another player, the movement must adjust and start the recognition and reaction process again.

Novices to soccer think it's all about what the player with the ball does. But it's actually much more about what all the players do off the ball that leads to good scoring chances. Great teams make it seem effortless and easy. But it's actually really hard to get right and requires nonstop movement by many players.

I see a lot of parallels with the passing game in football (and basketball). I would think that the QB and WRs have to share some tactical awareness based on what the D is doing pre-snap and then early after the snap. And they have to be on the same page about where to be and when. Then, knowing what needs to be done, just like in soccer, it requires the players to have the physicality to get it done.

Anyway, I suspect the off-season, the Spring, and next year's preseason training will lead to quite a bit of improvement. I think bringing in a QB coach who also can help with offensive schemes and can work with players down on the field with Kill sits up in the booth would be helpful.

I meant to give an example but hit post too quickly. We used to run a trips look with 3 options from the LOS. We had a bubble look, a tunnel look, and a 3 vertical look. All 3 WRs and the QB had to know exactly what we were doing based off of the looks we saw. Initially it was a side line hand signal, then it became a #1 WR hang signal, then it became no signal necessary.
 
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gef21

All-American
Jan 25, 2005
4,575
9,397
0
But you can play "games" with press happy teams. Like bunch sets and creative motion.

Maybe one of the receivers is the RB releasing to the flat.

I mean I've seen "inferior" teams do it to us...

We started moving our RBs into the slots and hit some big plays off of it. We ran some motion to get our smaller guys off of the line. That being said our slots never did a good job of getting out of the break fast enough. But those quick routes take timing and accuracy by our QBs. Gio and Lewis are not accurage QBs. Bolin has his moments and had some tight window throws but zero ability to go vertical for him, and slow feet, held him back.
 

TonyLieske

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2008
8,786
3,588
113
Ash won a NC at OSU as DC. What'd Schiano do?

 

RUfromSoCal?

Heisman
Nov 26, 2006
34,858
42,916
113
Anyone who is surprised, doesn't understand how big time programs, recruiting and contracts work in this day and age.

It's good for recruiting, good for program stability, good for everyone.......... Ash was never getting fired based on wins/losses next year--- it's based on how he runs the whole program.... and nothing changes in that aspect under an extension....

and sorry all you GS-fanboys...that was never going to happen....

extra $$'s involved are chump change....

Stability assured...now go out and recruit...develop and get better!
 

TonyLieske

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2008
8,786
3,588
113
What did Schiano accomplish at OSU as a DC? As compared to Ash? Yes, I am serious with that question. Why wouldn't I be? It's not a fair question?

I wasn't comparing lifetime head coaching. Just the job each coach did coaching at OSU.

Still not sure if you are trolling...but prior to becoming Rutgers Head Coach, Schiano won a NC...as a DC. It was for Miami, not OSU, but then again for clarity's sake Ash was actually the co-DC on the team that won the NC at OSU.
 

kapyoche

All-Conference
Sep 11, 2010
5,151
1,509
0
It makes sense since he can't do worse so we save a lot of money and maintain continuity with assistant coaches.
 
Dec 17, 2008
45,214
16,775
0
Still not sure if you are trolling...but prior to becoming Rutgers Head Coach, Schiano won a NC...as a DC. It was for Miami, not OSU, but then again for clarity's sake Ash was actually the co-DC on the team that won the NC at OSU.
I don't think he did. He left just before Butch Davis did and he didn't win one either. Davis recruited like hell though and everything was all set for Coker to win it.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
Still not sure if you are trolling...but prior to becoming Rutgers Head Coach, Schiano won a NC...as a DC. It was for Miami, not OSU, but then again for clarity's sake Ash was actually the co-DC on the team that won the NC at OSU.
I was just comparing the two coach's performance over two seasons with the same team in the same competition. As close a fair comparison as one can get.

There is no way to compare them fairly in terms of head-coaching. There is no way to compare them in terms of coaching at Miami. But they both coached for the same length of time under the same head coach at OSU, at very close the same period of time.

Not a perfect comparison either. But about as close as it can get.