Obviously you have some strong opinions, and they are not all wrong based on your definition of tiers and rankings (and I agree that we are not top 10 yet, but lets see what happens this year). But Suriano is not going to wrestle a 141 and 157 on a daily basis. He also has Delvecchio at 133 who lost in the NCAA blood round (top 12) and I thought SKWC added a former lightweight multiple AA to train in the wrestling room. Further, RU cannot replace Ashnault and the 2018 graduating class with 2017 recruits (Glasgow) because the scholarship money is not free yet. Our 2018 class appears to be much stronger than 2017 and should continue moving the program forward and not take a step back.
Insiders what's up with Nick
- Thread starter koleszar
- Start date
If we are looking at future potential partners for PSU add in Gavin Teasdale, RBY and grad transfer Cory Keener (NCAA qualifier)...
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I will talk about Suriano's workout partners at PSU when this is all over.
No argument from me that PSU is s much stronger program than RU (and the rest of the NCAA). Cael has done an amazing job. But a little more detail was needed to respond to comments that were made. Not sure why some feel the need to degrade RU. We are not Penn State, but our fans are proud of our recent accomplishments and are looking forward to the future.
Cael says nice things about opponents instead of Rex Ryan-ish stuff like Goodale. Good for Cael. I think it was true, Rutgers to their credit, did not just clam up against PSU.
Here's Goodale from 2014:
“No question about it,” Rutgers coach Scott Goodale said. “Guys like [Anthony] Ashnault and [Anthony] Giraldo and Billy Smith and Campolattano believe they can win national titles. I don’t know if it’s this year. But I believe we have a national champ. I believe we have multiple national champs on this roster.”
Four NCAAs later and Rutgers is stuck at zero champs.
And that's not an isolated example, he does it a lot - writes a lot of checks he can't cash. From last year:
"We feel we're an elite team," Goodale said. "I've always talked about being a Top 10 team in the country year-in, year-out. That's kind of our focus. If we can break through and get some of these guys who haven't placed at the national tournament to do so, who knows? Maybe we're contending for a trophy."
So there's a lot of talk about being a top ten team and "feeling" RU is one. Then he has to jump to maybe being in the top three at nationals! His shtick (as was Rex Ryan's) is hard to swallow and, I'll be honest, I don't see Goodale taking RU there.
I think Rutgers is improving but I don't know if it's improving quickly enough to catch up to other schools. Iowa is bringing in better guys and Ohio State continues to do so. Michigan is bringing in lots of studs, so is Nebraska, etc. Dresser is at Iowa State now. Oklahoma could be moving up, too, with Rosselli at the helm. It's easy to wind up spinning your wheels in the climb up the ladder.
Here are a few BWI quotes from matter7172 who is now approaching troll status:
"Par for the course over there. But I found out today on Scarlet Nation, shockingly, that Rutgers is a Top Ten wrestling program, notwithstanding the fact their two highest finishes at NCAAs have been 15th two years ago and 19th last year. So there is no shortage of shortages of logic."
and
"And someone else defending the top ten status today with people "liking" it. So I don't know. I think it's more pervasive than you believe."
So, if you would like to discuss wrestling, that is fine. You are on our board now. Our wrestling team is not at the level of PSU - no team in the country is. But we are a Top 20 team that many on here feel will be a Top 10 team this coming season, and hopefully for years to come. It is one of the better athletic programs here at RU and there is, quite frankly, no need for you to come on here and demean it.
"Par for the course over there. But I found out today on Scarlet Nation, shockingly, that Rutgers is a Top Ten wrestling program, notwithstanding the fact their two highest finishes at NCAAs have been 15th two years ago and 19th last year. So there is no shortage of shortages of logic."
and
"And someone else defending the top ten status today with people "liking" it. So I don't know. I think it's more pervasive than you believe."
So, if you would like to discuss wrestling, that is fine. You are on our board now. Our wrestling team is not at the level of PSU - no team in the country is. But we are a Top 20 team that many on here feel will be a Top 10 team this coming season, and hopefully for years to come. It is one of the better athletic programs here at RU and there is, quite frankly, no need for you to come on here and demean it.
Rutgers is only 3rd tier? Of course they are, but they're currently near the top of the 3rd tier, which puts them, get this, around 10th in the country. I'd make the first tier be PSU, Iowa, OKSt, tOSU, etc., with VT, Nebraska, Cornell, NC State, Ariz St., Michigan, etc in the 2nd tier, Rutgers is in the 3rd tier near Lehigh, Minnesota, etc. And really that 2nd and 3rd tier starts to meld together the farther you go down the tier.
Where have we ended the year up in duals the last few years? Around 10th-12th.
And if we have Suriano this year, where will we end up? Right in the 2nd tier. Which will also obviously help us in tournament rankings since we're replacing essentially a .500 NCAA wrestler with a guy that's likely the favorite at his weight class. That's a 3-12 point swing each match. It's a huge jump in tournament points.
We currently are averaging two AAs a year recently. Next year could be 4-5, and that's with redshirting 1-2 possibles. That's a big jump.
Where have we ended the year up in duals the last few years? Around 10th-12th.
And if we have Suriano this year, where will we end up? Right in the 2nd tier. Which will also obviously help us in tournament rankings since we're replacing essentially a .500 NCAA wrestler with a guy that's likely the favorite at his weight class. That's a 3-12 point swing each match. It's a huge jump in tournament points.
We currently are averaging two AAs a year recently. Next year could be 4-5, and that's with redshirting 1-2 possibles. That's a big jump.
Thanks for a respectful response. I don't think it's really debatable that Nick would have a better room (and coaching?) at Penn State, but he's going to do what he feels is best for him in the end and probably doesn't want to consider my opinion.
As a realistic matter, I think it's really hard to leapfrog teams in the next tier in college wrestling. As you note, the 2018 recruiting class has what, a #48 or thereabouts guy as the top recruit? Basically every team that is ahead of Rutgers now has a better recruiting class. The class of 2019 is starting to fill in and the schools getting top guys are all ahead of Rutgers on the ladder. It's just really, really hard to move up that ladder. To consider it some kind of inevitability based on the results so far is a bit premature.
I don't have any disrespect for the Rutgers program and I'd like to see it improve (and to have the pre-match music *eliminated* haha) but man, it's a hard row to hoe to pass other programs - especially ones that have been at that second tier or at the top for a bit. Look at Penn State in the 1990s. Always knocking at the door and it just wouldn't open. If Cael hadn't come to State College, honestly, it's likely Penn State would still be stuck in the second tier and knocking at that door.
Yeah, I said that in reference to silly stuff being posted on message boards because, frankly, it was ridiculous. The "but" part bolded above I agreed with until we got into the "feel" stuff. That sounds like Goodale talking. Feeling does nothing. RU will be top ten when it actually *is*, not when it "feels" it is. Goodale has "felt" the program in top ten for years now and has "felt" he has multiple national champs in the room for YEARS. And I haven't demeaned the program, I am just giving a realistic assessment.
Agree with the tier analysis. But you can't really "average" over a severely limited number of years (like two). The last 4 years, there have been 6 AA finishers, and Ashnault has been 3 of them. And the finishes have been 8, 8, 4, 8, 6 and 7. And zero before the last four years since Tanis in 2002. 4-5 is a quantum leap in the # of AA's but I guess it could happen. We'll see.
We'll leave Suriano this year in the highly unlikely category given B1G and its pretty inflexible approach to its rules.
Our lineup next year and my predictions on where they will finish ...
125: Suriano/Mackall ... Suriano will be a finalist, if not win it all. Mackall will be boardline NCAA qualifier. Either definite AA or no AA, depending on the guy.
133: DelVecchio ... He's a blood round guy, just like last year, so possible AA.
141: Ashnault .. He's a semifinalist like he is every year. He'll likely lose to Heil, like he does every year. At that point, finishing 3rd or 6th doesn't really matter. Definite AA.
149: M. Van Brill / E. DeLuca ... Van Brill beat Kevin Jack this offseason in freestyle, so he's no slouch. That being said, we're looking at nationals for both, but nowhere near AA.
157: Lewis / Glasgow ... Lewis is a possible semifinalist in my mind, but unlike Ash he doesn't have the stigma of "can't beat Heil" in his head. Glasgow is our best recruit since Ash and will redshirt. Either way, AA there.
165: Grello / J. Van Brill ... both could make nationals, neither will AA
174: Pagano ... will make nationals, will not AA.
184: Gravina ... like DelVecc, a blood round guy who only didn't AA last year because he was wrestling injured the whole tournament. Very likely AA if healthy.
197: Mulligan/Correnti ... will make nationals, barely, will not AA. I'd love to be wrong here and they have a strong year.
285: Gross ... will make nationals, will not AA. But his style is perfect for nationals. 2-1 victories and not coming in cold the whole year wrestling for the first time since HS. Gross will surprise some guys this year. Maybe not Snyder, haha, but some guys.
Anyway, I have 125 (w/ Suriano), 133, 141, 157, and 184 making AA this year. Three semifinalists with Suriano. Which is heads and tails better than we've ever done before.
125: Suriano/Mackall ... Suriano will be a finalist, if not win it all. Mackall will be boardline NCAA qualifier. Either definite AA or no AA, depending on the guy.
133: DelVecchio ... He's a blood round guy, just like last year, so possible AA.
141: Ashnault .. He's a semifinalist like he is every year. He'll likely lose to Heil, like he does every year. At that point, finishing 3rd or 6th doesn't really matter. Definite AA.
149: M. Van Brill / E. DeLuca ... Van Brill beat Kevin Jack this offseason in freestyle, so he's no slouch. That being said, we're looking at nationals for both, but nowhere near AA.
157: Lewis / Glasgow ... Lewis is a possible semifinalist in my mind, but unlike Ash he doesn't have the stigma of "can't beat Heil" in his head. Glasgow is our best recruit since Ash and will redshirt. Either way, AA there.
165: Grello / J. Van Brill ... both could make nationals, neither will AA
174: Pagano ... will make nationals, will not AA.
184: Gravina ... like DelVecc, a blood round guy who only didn't AA last year because he was wrestling injured the whole tournament. Very likely AA if healthy.
197: Mulligan/Correnti ... will make nationals, barely, will not AA. I'd love to be wrong here and they have a strong year.
285: Gross ... will make nationals, will not AA. But his style is perfect for nationals. 2-1 victories and not coming in cold the whole year wrestling for the first time since HS. Gross will surprise some guys this year. Maybe not Snyder, haha, but some guys.
Anyway, I have 125 (w/ Suriano), 133, 141, 157, and 184 making AA this year. Three semifinalists with Suriano. Which is heads and tails better than we've ever done before.
Suriano - Highly unlikely he'll be at Rutgers next year.
Delvecchio - ?
Ashnault - Barring something weird happening, should be AA
Lewis - Who knows
Gravina - Should AA.
Gross - I actually like him. His matches with Snyder are entertaining at least. I actually give him an outside shot.
So you have two guys that should be pretty much locks, one guy who thinks he's a lot better than he is (which can smack you upside the head at NCAAs), and two outside shots. I'd say 3 is probably a realistic possibility. To get 4-5 would mean everything going your way at nationals, which rarely happens.
I don't know why Suriano is being penciled in. First, he would have to transfer. Second, he would have to apply for and get a waiver from B1G, which they hand out like $1000 bills at a miser's ball. Micic is the only guy in wrestling that has received one, presumably because of the coaching change at NW and the fact that he had not actually competed at NW. Unless Cael is leaving PSU and you somehow forget about Suriano's year at Penn State, I couldn't be sanguine about the chances of his getting a waiver.
Don't write off Pagano my friends. He is looking tough.
If they stop the ear-splitting volume of prematch hip-hop music, I would consider renewing my season ticket.
It's not like I'm uninformed. I would like Rutgers to keep improving, but pointing to stuff like we once got a #6 ranking in a poll during the season one time doesn't really help arguments about where the program is right now. It's still a third tier program today. That may or may not change - it's not easy to climb. PSU was a second tier program all through the 1990s but never broke through that until Cael came on board. They were stuck at second tier for a lot of years and were maybe even starting to slip to third tier in the early 00's.
If Rutgers wants to really improve their sports programs in general, they have to avoid things like this: http://www.scarletknights.com/index.aspx
Personally, I think Goodale is a big part of the problem. His in-match coaching is highly flawed and guys and the team lose a lot of matches because he is not really on top of things strategically in a lot of matches I've seen. Plus, guys don't really develop the way they could. AA should have been at the top of the podium once, if not twice, at this point. He is talented and accomplished enough to have done so.
Steve, you were condescending & clearly have no clue about our program's history, so let me educate you. What Goodale & the staff have done to get us to be competitive in the B1G, produce some AAs & finish where we have in the NCAA tourney & dual rankings has been a miracle with our financial constraints, as we haven't been working with full scholarship money, have a poor practice facility & a limited club, which is underfunded. We aren't swimming in money like your beloved PSU, which incidentally you didn't even attend. We just recently fully funded 9.9 scholarships at out-of-state tuition levels within the past year or 2 & only fully funded the full 9.9 scholarships at in-state tuition levels at some point in the last 4-6 years. Prior to Goodale's arrival in 2007, we almost cut the sport & were offering 2.9 to 4.4 of the 9.9 scholarships available & only at in-state tuition levels at that. The only other program that's done more than us with less has been Edinboro.Thanks for a respectful response. I don't think it's really debatable that Nick would have a better room (and coaching?) at Penn State, but he's going to do what he feels is best for him in the end and probably doesn't want to consider my opinion.
As a realistic matter, I think it's really hard to leapfrog teams in the next tier in college wrestling. As you note, the 2018 recruiting class has what, a #48 or thereabouts guy as the top recruit? Basically every team that is ahead of Rutgers now has a better recruiting class. The class of 2019 is starting to fill in and the schools getting top guys are all ahead of Rutgers on the ladder. It's just really, really hard to move up that ladder. To consider it some kind of inevitability based on the results so far is a bit premature.
I don't have any disrespect for the Rutgers program and I'd like to see it improve (and to have the pre-match music *eliminated* haha) but man, it's a hard row to hoe to pass other programs - especially ones that have been at that second tier or at the top for a bit. Look at Penn State in the 1990s. Always knocking at the door and it just wouldn't open. If Cael hadn't come to State College, honestly, it's likely Penn State would still be stuck in the second tier and knocking at that door.
Yeah, I said that in reference to silly stuff being posted on message boards because, frankly, it was ridiculous. The "but" part bolded above I agreed with until we got into the "feel" stuff. That sounds like Goodale talking. Feeling does nothing. RU will be top ten when it actually *is*, not when it "feels" it is. Goodale has "felt" the program in top ten for years now and has "felt" he has multiple national champs in the room for YEARS. And I haven't demeaned the program, I am just giving a realistic assessment.
Agree with the tier analysis. But you can't really "average" over a severely limited number of years (like two). The last 4 years, there have been 6 AA finishers, and Ashnault has been 3 of them. And the finishes have been 8, 8, 4, 8, 6 and 7. And zero before the last four years since Tanis in 2002. 4-5 is a quantum leap in the # of AA's but I guess it could happen. We'll see.
We'll leave Suriano this year in the highly unlikely category given B1G and its pretty inflexible approach to its rules.
Ok, that's a little creepy, isn't it? Are you stalking me? What's your name?
How would I know about the scholarship funding? That's kind of arcane info, isn't it? But not knowing about the funding is hardly "having no clue". I remember Sacchi, for crying out loud, which is probably something not everyone here can say.
Ok, guilty. I didn't go to Penn State. Is that some kind of requirement? Everyone here went to Rutgers? That I actually did do. But I've been a Penn State wrestling fan since 1970. Does that count for anything?
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The scholarship info is well-known to anyone who follows RU wrestling. It has been a topic of discussion on here numerous times. It is not exactly "arcane" information.Ok, that's a little creepy, isn't it? Are you stalking me? What's your name?
How would I know about the scholarship funding? That's kind of arcane info, isn't it? But not knowing about the funding is hardly "having no clue". I remember Sacchi, for crying out loud, which is probably something not everyone here can say.
Ok, guilty. I didn't go to Penn State. Is that some kind of requirement? Everyone here went to Rutgers? That I actually did do. But I've been a Penn State wrestling fan since 1970. Does that count for anything?
It is funny that condescending posters who give a school a bad name often did not attend the school.
Pagano, Grello, Mulligan and possibly Suriano-
ALL Bergen Catholic alums ! RU could have 4 starters from Bergen Catholic this season !
Coach G might want to give Coach Ash the secret to recruiting Bergen Catholic , lol, just kidding.
PS- Pagano also transferred in from Penn St
ALL Bergen Catholic alums ! RU could have 4 starters from Bergen Catholic this season !
Coach G might want to give Coach Ash the secret to recruiting Bergen Catholic , lol, just kidding.
PS- Pagano also transferred in from Penn St
Also only spent his senior year at Bergen Catholic. He is a South Brunswick boy.
By the way, here is one post in the "Wrestling News" thread where all the regulars have participated. This was huge news on this site and for the program so your nonsensical attempts to deflect are not working.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/wrestling-news.114893/page-5#post-2582542
Here is another where someone was sending a letter to our AD requesting fully funded status:
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-to-ru-athletic-director.117415/#post-2582918
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-to-ru-athletic-director.117415/#post-2582918
Here is one from last year:
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/wrestling-recruit-state-results.79365/page-4#post-1690215
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/wrestling-recruit-state-results.79365/page-4#post-1690215
Here is one where it was discussed when Donnie P was hired:
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/pritzlaff-article-wrestling.65013/#post-1302834
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/pritzlaff-article-wrestling.65013/#post-1302834
hey guys, just use the IGNORE feature on this idiot, and all will be fine.
Ok, that's a little creepy, isn't it? Are you stalking me? What's your name?
How would I know about the scholarship funding? That's kind of arcane info, isn't it? But not knowing about the funding is hardly "having no clue". I remember Sacchi, for crying out loud, which is probably something not everyone here can say.
Ok, guilty. I didn't go to Penn State. Is that some kind of requirement? Everyone here went to Rutgers? That I actually did do. But I've been a Penn State wrestling fan since 1970. Does that count for anything?
Ok, that's a little creepy, isn't it? Are you stalking me? What's your name?
How would I know about the scholarship funding? That's kind of arcane info, isn't it? But not knowing about the funding is hardly "having no clue". I remember Sacchi, for crying out loud, which is probably something not everyone here can say.
Ok, guilty. I didn't go to Penn State. Is that some kind of requirement? Everyone here went to Rutgers? That I actually did do. But I've been a Penn State wrestling fan since 1970. Does that count for anything?
Don't p*ss on our heads and tell us it's raining. You come here in a condescending manner, then run to your BWI board to basically tell all of them we're delusional, you get called out on it, and try to make good. Go contribute to your own board because nobody here really wants your opinion, cares about it, or respects it after the suddle douchiness you keep displaying. Never understood people trolling other teams boards. Stay over on BWI, I promise you nobody here will miss you opinions
The funny thing is that the guy claims to like Cael Sanderson yet based on his posts Cale could never justify claiming a PSU competitive disadvantage as a reason not to release Nick to Rutgers, so why not help Nick go home to New Jersey and wrestle at Rutgers where he wants to ASAP and move on to recruiting for 125 ?
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Wouldn't the strategic move be to give him his release, since let's face it we're no threat. But Ohio St. is. psu isn't going to score many points at 125 if Suriano leaves. Why not let him wrestle and take points from Ohio St. both in the B1G and NCAA's. Not granting the release looks petty and vengeful like Brand's dick move.
Cael doesn't give the release- it is a conference rule and the Conference would have to grant him a waiver of the rules. Now, IF Cael felt that Rutgers has been communicating with PSU players without the required written release, then I can understand why he would not support a waiver. This is not the first year there has been talk of starters transferring. He MAY feel that there is a pattern of unsanctioned communication occurring that is encouraging his athletes to leave.
Wait, if Cael doesn't grant the release to Rutgers than Suriano can't come. Coaches can block kids from transferring to certain schools if they so choose. Then the waiver comes into play to get the year of eligibility back per B1G rules. Cael can give his blessing for the waiver or not. This is one of the considerations looked at by the B1G, there are other factors. The B1G has final call on the waiver. Not Cael. But Cael has the call on where he can transfer to.
Penalized how. He's already losing the redshirt year do to NCAA regulations than on top of that a eligibility year do to B1G rules. What else would he lose?
Ok for about the 10th time......Nick can transfer to wherever he wants. If PSU denies a release Nick must sit out next year. Not a problem since he has a redshirt(cannot accept any scholly money). If PSU releases Nick he is eligible next season.
BUT---the BigTen transfer rules are separate from the NCAA rules. If Nick does not receive a waiver he will lose a year of competition and only have two years of competition left and must sit out next year.
Here is the wording
From the RU website
Big Ten Intraconference Transfer Rule
Any student-athlete who has signed a financial aid agreement ("Big Ten Tender") with another Big Ten school may not represent a second Big Ten school in competition without first serving a full year-in-residence (i.e., sitting out a year). That student-athlete is also subject to the loss of one season of competition. Exceptions are granted if a student-athlete's National Letter of Intent has been declared null and void.
NOTE: The Big Ten intraconference transfer rule supersedes the NCAA transfer regulations. Therefore, student-athletes cannot utilize the NCAA transfer exceptions to avoid Big Ten transfer penalties.
BUT---the BigTen transfer rules are separate from the NCAA rules. If Nick does not receive a waiver he will lose a year of competition and only have two years of competition left and must sit out next year.
Here is the wording
From the RU website
Big Ten Intraconference Transfer Rule
Any student-athlete who has signed a financial aid agreement ("Big Ten Tender") with another Big Ten school may not represent a second Big Ten school in competition without first serving a full year-in-residence (i.e., sitting out a year). That student-athlete is also subject to the loss of one season of competition. Exceptions are granted if a student-athlete's National Letter of Intent has been declared null and void.
NOTE: The Big Ten intraconference transfer rule supersedes the NCAA transfer regulations. Therefore, student-athletes cannot utilize the NCAA transfer exceptions to avoid Big Ten transfer penalties.
Name one starting wrestler at Penn State that ever considered transferring to Rutgers to wrestle in recent years. And if you can't please refrain from hypotheticals that aren't based on any actual facts.
Thanks.
Other than Pagano and Suriano? I'm guessing you're referencing the shitliner? Haha.
I said there was "talk of transfers" last year- not that a wrestler actually was considering it. Did you miss the whole ""sh#% a cruise liner" thread last year? It has become a running joke- which is why no one took the Nick situation seriously at first. Rumor had it was going to be VJ, until he tweeted a strong denial.
And came right back to PSU! Best of luck at VT Frank- lots of people pulling for you!Frank Molinaro...but he transferred as a coach
And the guy who started that rumor and got everyone all riled up has been banned from the site. That is probably the main reason many people on here were skeptical of the NS rumor.
This thread (including what was posted in the "Wrestling News" thread) has been a circular conversation/argument. At this point, there is nothing concrete to discuss, all conjecture until a definitive move happens. I think the B1G transfer rule has been explained 6 times over at this point, at least...
Don't post personal info if you don't want to be googled.
1st I'm hearing of VJ on here as the rumor was MM & that guy was banned.
On BW, the talk was it was VJ because the rumor began as a starter, and then the OP backtracked and said he wasn't a starter, but would be one. Either way, it was nothing but rumors with no substance.
I can't believe anybody, including me, gave him any credence. He wrote like he was in Kindergarten. Lesson learned.