At 36 - crushed the field, first winner in 40 years without dropping a set. GOAT keeps getting better.
Federer - Major #19 - Wimbledon win without dropping a set
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19 career majors is so impressive. 1 more than Nicklaus in much more demanding sport. Also, an extreme class act his whole career.
Maybe more demanding physically but he has had nearly no competition his entire career. Tennis as a whole is down.
How can you say that ? Neither Federer nor Nadal nor Djokovic have retired yet ???
How about we wait until the above are retired to determine who is the GOAT ?
I would agree with the ecception when Nadal beat Federer in the Australian Open final and Federer started to cry like a baby during the ceremony! Showed very little class in that moment...
Very much disagree. American men's tennis is down, but Federer has played among many greats. His career started playing the likes of Sampras at Wimbledon and he's been right there through the careers of Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, even Wawrinka in recent years. And he's got more staying power and endurance of all of them.
Nadal is indeed the best ever on clay, but Federer is the GOAT, IMO.
Don't agree. Nadal is deadly at French so that effectively takes out 1 major per year. I would argue that Djokovic is as good as Sampras was and Andy Murray is a really good #4. I think the competition the last 10 years is significantly stronger than when Sampras played. You also can't argue that tennis is down - there is a world outside of the US. Tennis is top 3 sport (behind soccer) in a lot of European countries.
Agreed. Always been a huge Federer fan - love his speed, quickness, accuracy and work ethic. Amazing returner of serve, too.
This bunch isnt nearly as great and dynamic as Borg, McEnroe, Conners & Lendl.
And just might be #3 in Europe, behind Auto Racing.
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Tiger Woods and Federer were friends since I believe they both promoted Tag Heuer watch.
When I saw them TW was on top of the world even though Federer was a champion. I thought that TW would win 25 majors but it is Federer who just won the biggest prize in tennis.
Just amazing what stability does to one's success. It is a lesson for all of us. Have a stable life if you want to compete and win.
When I saw them TW was on top of the world even though Federer was a champion. I thought that TW would win 25 majors but it is Federer who just won the biggest prize in tennis.
Just amazing what stability does to one's success. It is a lesson for all of us. Have a stable life if you want to compete and win.
A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
Agree
And even at their peaks of domination, Federers stats were more impressive than Tigers
ESPN did a segment on it at the time...and i expected to be underwhelmed as i couldn't imagine an individual more dominating than Tiger (who was more dominating in that stretch than Jack)
I was wrong. Federer was more dominating in every way
What he has done is just phenomenal.
While I sort of understand this mindset, I don't agree. Any of the greats are so damn good that it just feels like their contemporaries are of a lesser quality.
And with that being said, look up the list of most grand slams won and count how many have played in Federer's era. More than a few.
He has been a beast and should not be discounted in any way among the best of all time.
Just because American tennis is down doesn't mean tennis is down. There are five guys playing with multiple major titles. And four of them were in the semifinals of majors so many times -- does that mean tennis was down or those guys have been that good? It's an endless cyclical, chicken-and-egg type of argument.
Beating Nadal in a major final at his age, then winning Wimbledon without dropping a set is quite a year for a guy about to turn 36. Perhaps he should take the rest of the year off again ...
Where did I bring up American tennis??
Borg, Lendl, McEnroe and Connors all had multiples too. That point is useless.
Clearly one of the best athletes ever. Impressive list of accomplishments and has always carried himself with class. Borg used to be my all time favorite player but Federer has been great for a much longer period.
That kind of goes without saying since Borg retired from tennis prematurely at only age 26, I believe.
Federer is making a case as the greatest athlete to ever live.
Closer than you think and current guys are not done competing for majors.
Borg 11
McEnroe 7
Conners 8
Lendl 8
34
Nadal 15
Djocovic 12
Murray 3
Warinka 3
33
It certainly is locally. In 70s and 80s many of the kids played tennis regardless of social group. Our municipal courts used to be very busy. If you didn't have a tennis permit you were a sad sack. Now the courts are unused. The clay courts are overgrown with weeds. If the illegals didn't use the courts for soccer (they put up orange cones) nobody would be using them.
A couple towns over, a local girl won 2015 NCAA title as a UNC sophomore (Jamie Loeb). She's ranked like 145th now. She knocked a top seed out in first week of Wimbledon but then got sent away in her next match.
Like golf, I think tennis is in a recession. They've retreated to private club scene.
And this isn't even the true comparison, as you'd have to take Borg off the 70s-80s list just like you've taken Federer off the current-day list. And then it's a white wash, and we're looking at the only time in history with 3 players with double digit majors competing effectively. Silly argument.
Folks shouldn't dump on Nadal, Dj, or Murray for starting to breakdown, that's what happens to tennis players at 30'ish. What Federer is doing is unprecedented. Excellence at this age is remarkable.
You didn't specifically, but of course 2 of the 4 guys you've cited are American.
It's difficult to compare different periods during the Open Era, but while late 70s/early 80s had great players and rivalries, the current group has more heavily dominated across all the majors than previous groups, making it challenging to accumulate multiples in other majors. In the same era you have 3 of the majors dominated to the tune of 6 or more (Nadal-French-10, Federer-Wimbledon-8, Djokovic-Australian-6; the US has 5x champs in Connors, Sampras, Federer). Those three are in the top 5 all-time number of majors with 19 (Federer), 15 (Nadal), and 12 (Djokovic). In that prior group, only Borg had double digit majors (11), who dominated the French (6) and Wimbledon (5), while Connors had 5 at the US (of 8 total in career) as I just mentioned. Borg was runner up/finalist at the US four times but never broke through for a title.
If this era was less competitive at the top, then Federer would have been easily at 20+ majors by now, probably closing in on 25, partly due to playing longer, but at a world class level throughout his career. That's the impressive part...still having the fire, motivation, and drive well into his 30s while also staying healthy and fit and not losing much time overall to injury. Nearly 20 years on the tour can take a toll on the body physically, and it's tough to maintain the edge mentally.
I agree. People always think players were better in the past but I would say this current group might be best in history. I'd take Federer, Nadal, Djokovich over any other eras top players.
Evolution of the game. The players are much fitter and the equipment is obviously better.
Training is cutting edge. Saw Fed go through a training session. I was surprised how little on court tennis work gets done. It's far more fitness than it is playing tennis.
Conversely the 80's era players did almost nothing but play tennis with some partying sprinkled in. With Fed's ball striking ability, all around court game, awareness, anticipation, soft hands, clinical ground strokes, movement... put him right now in any era with any equipment and he would still dominate. He is a once in history type player. The best that's ever lived. Records get broken, but his I am not so sure. Certainly, no one alive will ever see another Fed.
Training is cutting edge. Saw Fed go through a training session. I was surprised how little on court tennis work gets done. It's far more fitness than it is playing tennis.
Conversely the 80's era players did almost nothing but play tennis with some partying sprinkled in. With Fed's ball striking ability, all around court game, awareness, anticipation, soft hands, clinical ground strokes, movement... put him right now in any era with any equipment and he would still dominate. He is a once in history type player. The best that's ever lived. Records get broken, but his I am not so sure. Certainly, no one alive will ever see another Fed.
Another vote for Federer being the greatest of all time, hands down.
The game is harder now than it used to be. If you could put Federer in a time machine and send him back to the 80's, it would be like playing in slow motion for him.
The game is harder now than it used to be. If you could put Federer in a time machine and send him back to the 80's, it would be like playing in slow motion for him.
How is the game harder. The change from wood rackets to these oversized, lightweight rackets has made the game a lot easier. There was no forgiveness in wood rackets and hard to put a lot of spin on the ball.
It's far faster now for starters. John McEnroe prior to the end of his career when he was using graphite was serving ~115MPHs. Venus Williams and many other women serve between 125-130MPH. The men serve 140-160MPH. Groundstrokes have the same speed differential. It's simply way faster now.
Muguruza would have won the Men's side in 1980 if she could have time warped back.
Like every sport, it's just a different game. Equipment is better, athletes are better.
Muguruza would have won the Men's side in 1980 if she could have time warped back.
Like every sport, it's just a different game. Equipment is better, athletes are better.
The amazing thing about Federer is that he is not a large person. Barely over 6 foot and rather lean. He is not blowing people away or physically dominating. He is just better and smarter than everyone else (both in terms of prep and during matches).
Well said. Federer is clearly the best tennis player ever, based on results and longevity. The guy is simply an incredible athlete, with speed, strength, stamina, technique, accuracy, an incredibly compact/explosive stroke, superb hand-eye coordination, and one of the great thinkers ever in tennis - and he has an amazing work ethic and ability to focus on top of that. GOAT.
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Without resorting to the upgrade in fitness and equipment, you just need to look at the number of players performing at historic levels today and how they measure up in the number of majors that they have won and the number of majors won by their opponents and it's a lopsided victory for today's men--that is, unless your position is based mostly on pining for the old days of your youth and not on objectivity. Ask McEnroe. He'll tell you that Federer is the best of all time.
Like many sports, it's not just about size, unless you are really small, which Fed isn't. Speed and agility are huge assets, especially in a sport like tennis. He isn't the biggest hitter but his serve and groundstrokes are more than adequate in that department. His balance, hand/eye coordination allowing him to cleanly strike the ball with great consistently, soft hands, extreme flexibility, andincredible feet allow him to do things others simply can't do. Others have some of those skills. He has them all. Combine that with a great imagination and what you have is the closest thing to the perfect tennis player ever created.
I am sure only a few of you know who surfer Kelly Slater is, but he is like Fed of the surfing world. Many similar attributes. Not surprisingly, those two are friends.
How is the game harder now? The ball moves way faster, and spins way more. How do you think the game is easier now? Its not about offense, its about defense. Tennis is a game of holding and breaking serve.
Federer could serve the same as they used to with the old style racket. The inbound serves Borg would be seeing would match what he is used to. When Borg (or whoever) serves it would be in slow motion. Federer is able to return serves from Nadal coming in at 140mph and 3000 revolutions. He would be able to return everything in any prior era, with ease.
We will likely never agree, and that's fine. Due to gains in equipment, training and nutrition, I am of the general opinion that the best athletes in the current era are better than the best athletes of prior eras, maybe with a few well-known exceptions. You seem to be of the mindset that they used to be better.
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