I watched it. Sounded kind of plausible. But would have been nice to have perspective of a doubter punching holes in it.
OT: Amelia Earhart?
- Thread starter SkilletHead2
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Scarlet Sourge, I enjoyed viewing your sig pic, the game program cover for the 1933 Rutgers-Villanova game. Nice artistic work. The art work for football program covers back in that era was known as "stock art", meaning that the same work was used to adorn more than one program cover.
The 1931 Indiana-Ohio State game program cover has the same art work.
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Apparently for YEARS the same images were used... your Indiana program was 1931, Scarlet Scourge's was 1933.
Scarlet Sourge, I enjoyed viewing your sig pic, the game program cover for the 1933 Rutgers-Villanova game. Nice artistic work. The art work for football program covers back in that era was known as "stock art", meaning that the same work was used to adorn more than one program cover.
The 1931 Indiana-Ohio State game program cover has the same art work.
"Stock Art" is not something that has gone away. It is more popular than ever and easier to use, though its unlikely you'll see such a generic thing on football programs today.
toddler's jingoism...hahahaha
No I don't think you have a functioning brain and what I think is that you sit at home in the comfort of 70 years of American supremacy and have the luxury to question something YOU THINK YOU KNOW BECAUSE YOU READ ABOUT IT. You really don't know anything here. there was not a single German city that didn't help in the war effort whether it be by supplying men, goods, materials, etc etc to the German war effort. Dresden for instance, produced optics, gun sights, and the like as well as communication lines having been redirected.
Blanket Industrial Center Bombings, endorsed by all in 41, meant no one place was safe from the bombers and thank God for that!
Our hands are not soaked in blood by any stretch.
dumbass
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Scarlet Sourge, I enjoyed viewing your sig pic, the game program cover for the 1933 Rutgers-Villanova game. Nice artistic work. The art work for football program covers back in that era was known as "stock art", meaning that the same work was used to adorn more than one program cover.
The 1931 Indiana-Ohio State game program cover has the same art work.
Cool, I guess it was the default for any school with red colors.
I don't know how this topic got inserted in here but I like it! Besides the stock art, the 1970s and beyond brought nationally written articles that were inserted into many different game day college football programs including those carried in Rutgers programs.Cool, I guess it was the default for any school with red colors.
the thread title's question is"Amelia Earhart?"
The answer is "This famous female aviator was lost at a time that stock art was prevalent on the covers of college football game day programs"
I'll take Japanese atrocities for $200 Alex.
So the conclusion to draw from this thread is that amelia was responsible for wwII and all the atrocities that occurred therein.
"They surrendered just like your mother did last night Trebek! HAWWWW-HAWWW-HAWWW-HAWWW."
Wait, the Japanese bombed Dunkirk before WWII ever started? And Emelia Earhart was Alex Trebek's mama? I'm so confused!
Man, I miss all the fun, so time to catch up:
Prior to occupying Japan, the estimates of American casualties by the experts at the time was somewhere in the range of 400-600K. Once we were in control and saw the defenses in place and the rabid fervor of the citizens, estimates were revised to 2-3 million American casualties.
Man, I miss all the fun, so time to catch up:
I fell terrific about it. Without dropping those bombs, Japan would not have surrendered at that point. And millions of American lives would have been lost with a conventional invasion to bring them to heel, as I'll address below. From a personal standpoint, my dad would have been a navigator in a B-29 over Japan if the war had continued. He was less than a month away from being deployed when they dropped the bombs, so he might not have come home.
I have a 30 year old article written by a former general that analyzes the decision on dropping the bomb. I have been looking for that article for over a decade, and ran across it in an old briefcase of mine I was cleaning out. I need to scan that article and post it, because it is very eye-opening.
Prior to occupying Japan, the estimates of American casualties by the experts at the time was somewhere in the range of 400-600K. Once we were in control and saw the defenses in place and the rabid fervor of the citizens, estimates were revised to 2-3 million American casualties.
There has been a helluva lot "speculation" backed with facts and analysis that supports that supposition, and very few facts and expert opinion that dispute it.
That *****! She's just using us as a placeholder in hopes of getting better offers.
I am now really confused. From this thread I gathered that Amelia had dropped the atom bombs right after she firebombed Dresden. Now you are suggesting America actually dropped the atomic bombs. Wow.
Bombs Away!
The two most important war industries in Dresden were Zeiss-Ikon AG and Radio-Mende.
Zeiss-Ikon built cameras, gunsights, bombsights, rangefinders, lens and mirrors for the Wehrmacht.
Zeiss-Ikon ran a number of factories in Dresden employing over 10,000 workers, including hundreds of concentration camp inmates from Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen and thousands of forcibly conscripted foreign workers.
Radio-Mende started out as a manufacturer of the Reich's "people's radio" - the Volksempfänger - but by 1944 was given over to working for the Wehrmacht: field telephones, two-way radios, artillery observation devices, teleprinters, electrical fuses for the Luftwaffe and other electrical equipment.
Radio-Mende employed 2500 workers in 1943 and continued to expand in 1944. Radio-Mende's workforce include 300 women from the Flossenbürg concentration camp, 600 women from Bergen-Belsen and hundreds of conscripted Russian and Polish women.
As Allied bombing in the West pulverized German industries, many Dresden factories were converted to the manufacture of war materials.
Seidel and Naumann once made typewriters and sewing machines. By 1944, they were still manufacturing a few typewriters, all of which went to the Wehrmacht, but were also manufacturing rifle and machine gun parts.
Richard Gäbel & Co. once made waffle machine and marzipan makers was devoting 96% of its outputs to armaments by March 1944, including torpedo components.
J. C. Müller Universelle-Werk once made cigarette making machines. By 1944 it was making machine guns, searchlights, directional guidance equipment and torpedo and aircraft parts. It employed over 4000 workers, including 700 women from the Ravensbruck concentration camp.
Bernsdorf & Co. once made cigarettes. By 1944, the cigarette making making machines had been adapted to make rifle and machine gun bullets. Workers from concentration camps had quotas to fulfil: 1000 cartridges per hour, working over 12 hour shifts, seven days a week.
Deutsche Werkstätte once made furniture. By 1944 it was turning out parts for the V-1 buzz bomb, the V-2 rocket and aircraft parts.
The Wehrmacht's armaments office maintained a directory of businesses and factories doing war work, each identified by a unique code. The directory listed 127 separate businesses or manufacturers in Dresden working for the Wehrmacht.
Interestingly enough, the Bomber Command and the US 8th Air Force weren't after Dresden's factories, which had long been out of reach in eastern Germany. They were after Dresden's railroad lines and marshaling yards.
British intelligence had picked up on German plans to withdraw up to forty divisions from the Western Front, Scandinavia and training depots in Germany to reinforce the Eastern Front to contest annual Soviet winter offensive. Bomber Command's Joint Intelligence Committee proposed to hinder the troop transfer by attacking transportation centers in eastern Germany and Berlin, Leipzig, Chemnitz and Dresden were added to Bomber Command's target list. British political leaders, up to and including Churchill, endorsed the plan (Churchill giving it one of his many, many "action this day" endorsements) and so Dresden was attacked.
Of note, survivors and Wehrmacht troops who had seen the destruction of Dresden had told Allied intelligence that it was so devastating, so complete, and that knowing Germany offered no resistance saw even the most hardened fighters acknowledge that the war was truly over
again, this was 6 weeks before Operation Varsity
The two most important war industries in Dresden were Zeiss-Ikon AG and Radio-Mende.
Zeiss-Ikon built cameras, gunsights, bombsights, rangefinders, lens and mirrors for the Wehrmacht.
Zeiss-Ikon ran a number of factories in Dresden employing over 10,000 workers, including hundreds of concentration camp inmates from Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen and thousands of forcibly conscripted foreign workers.
Radio-Mende started out as a manufacturer of the Reich's "people's radio" - the Volksempfänger - but by 1944 was given over to working for the Wehrmacht: field telephones, two-way radios, artillery observation devices, teleprinters, electrical fuses for the Luftwaffe and other electrical equipment.
Radio-Mende employed 2500 workers in 1943 and continued to expand in 1944. Radio-Mende's workforce include 300 women from the Flossenbürg concentration camp, 600 women from Bergen-Belsen and hundreds of conscripted Russian and Polish women.
As Allied bombing in the West pulverized German industries, many Dresden factories were converted to the manufacture of war materials.
Seidel and Naumann once made typewriters and sewing machines. By 1944, they were still manufacturing a few typewriters, all of which went to the Wehrmacht, but were also manufacturing rifle and machine gun parts.
Richard Gäbel & Co. once made waffle machine and marzipan makers was devoting 96% of its outputs to armaments by March 1944, including torpedo components.
J. C. Müller Universelle-Werk once made cigarette making machines. By 1944 it was making machine guns, searchlights, directional guidance equipment and torpedo and aircraft parts. It employed over 4000 workers, including 700 women from the Ravensbruck concentration camp.
Bernsdorf & Co. once made cigarettes. By 1944, the cigarette making making machines had been adapted to make rifle and machine gun bullets. Workers from concentration camps had quotas to fulfil: 1000 cartridges per hour, working over 12 hour shifts, seven days a week.
Deutsche Werkstätte once made furniture. By 1944 it was turning out parts for the V-1 buzz bomb, the V-2 rocket and aircraft parts.
The Wehrmacht's armaments office maintained a directory of businesses and factories doing war work, each identified by a unique code. The directory listed 127 separate businesses or manufacturers in Dresden working for the Wehrmacht.
Interestingly enough, the Bomber Command and the US 8th Air Force weren't after Dresden's factories, which had long been out of reach in eastern Germany. They were after Dresden's railroad lines and marshaling yards.
British intelligence had picked up on German plans to withdraw up to forty divisions from the Western Front, Scandinavia and training depots in Germany to reinforce the Eastern Front to contest annual Soviet winter offensive. Bomber Command's Joint Intelligence Committee proposed to hinder the troop transfer by attacking transportation centers in eastern Germany and Berlin, Leipzig, Chemnitz and Dresden were added to Bomber Command's target list. British political leaders, up to and including Churchill, endorsed the plan (Churchill giving it one of his many, many "action this day" endorsements) and so Dresden was attacked.
Of note, survivors and Wehrmacht troops who had seen the destruction of Dresden had told Allied intelligence that it was so devastating, so complete, and that knowing Germany offered no resistance saw even the most hardened fighters acknowledge that the war was truly over
again, this was 6 weeks before Operation Varsity
A
anon_xekqhstck0ygt
Guest
well guess it's not her
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...im-amelia-earhart-was-taken-prisoner-by-japan
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...im-amelia-earhart-was-taken-prisoner-by-japan
I am not interested in debating whether dropping the bomb was "justified" in the traditional sense. Suffice it to say, however, that the choice was not between the atomic bomb and invasion only. Other outcomes were possible including a negotiated surrender or unconditional surrender after the soviets entered the pacific war. Stating that millions would die as a CERTAINTY is intellectually lazy.
My actually gripe is with feeling "great" or heroic about it. Would you feel great about murdering a child "for the greater good." Even if you felt ethically justified about it how could you possibly feel "good" about doing it.
The USA has a sordid and bloody history going back to colonial times. Best to deal with it like a grownup and stop playing cops and robbers.
Amazing what idiocy people will swallow. There was never a thing plausible about this.
The photo predates her final flight, so it was taken before not afterwards.
So it might still be them but it changes nothing.
This is what happens when you don't try to balance your documentary with other possibilities from other authorities (as someone previously stated).
People only see one side of the coin and with no other side to consider put too much emphasis and truth to your premise. If the documentarians had put an interview or two in there about other possibilities concerning the photo or the items discovered on the atoll, then they wouldn't be sitting with egg on their face over this latest story.
You are so beneath me its absurd. "there was not a single German city that didn't help in the war effort whether it be by supplying men, goods, materials, etc etc to the German war effort."
What freaking war effort were they supporting in the winter of 1945 you schmuck? Your entire argument is an absolute joke because you're acting like Dresden happened in 1943. It was plain murder by the allies. End.
And if you think our country isn't soaked in blood, you don't know the first thing about the history of this country. You basically ARE a child, as I surmised above. One who will never dare to cross daddy. You're a pathetic weakling who believes fairy stories about our righteous Yankee Doodle American greatness, who will overlook and excuse every horror we have wrought in the name of "patriotism." People with your mindset were definitely not abolitionists, I can tell you that.
sorry pal, you've been weighed and measured and found pretty lacking
you have been so thoroughly rounded here it's pathetic to think you teach but then again, that's not surprising in this day and age
dumbass
Yeah, we fingered Earhart as the culprit since she was already in Japanese custody, having strafed the emperor's palace in Japan on her around the world trip.
She also found the time to do the covers of the football programs while in custody.
Bombs Dresden, strafes the Imperial Palace, Drops Atom bombs and still finds time for football program covers. Amelia would make a great Bond villain.
I'm generally with you on stuff, but on this I must point out that it only works with the benefit of hindsight.
In February 1945 the Germans were getting their esel handed to them, for sure. But the war wasn't over and the Allies, of course, didn't know exactly when it would be. Meanwhile, the Zeiss-Ikon factory, alone, was a significant target.
You don't stop killing the enemy when they're losing. You stop when they've lost.
Oh, by the way - there was zero chance the Russians were ever going to open up an Eastern front against Japan. None whatsoever. Pushing the Germans back into Germany had utterly devastated the Russians, both materially and spiritually. They were done, the natives were getting restless and Stalin was getting nervous.
you have to ignore him, like I said earlier, he's got a liberal viewpoint and opining on matters he knows little about from the sanctuary of shores that protect him behind 70 years of American supremacy
And sheep were........oh, wait, that's mildone.
There was some scuttlebutt I read quite a while ago that there had actually been some agreement between Russia and Japan to just tread wearily around each other. Can't recall the source as of now, and I don't know if there was any veracity to it.
The Rising Sun was a great book on the war from the Japanese perspective. Having read that book, my recollection is that it was pretty clear Russia was not going to declare war on Japan and that neither side had the appetite for anything more than dancing around each other (Japan wanted a negotiated peace or arrangement with Russia, Russia just tip-toed around it....only declaring war after the US dropped the bomb in order to get the spoils of Japanese territory).
I forget whether this was advanced by a HS history teacher of mine or an RU prof, but it is logical. Basically, he said that dropping the first atomic bomb was completely justified in order to save countless American lives that would be lost in an invasion of main land Japan and they would never have surrendered without realizing the devastation that the atom bomb caused. However, he suggested that we should have given Japan more time before the second bomb. The first bomb not only killed so many, but it devastated communications with the island. The Japanese government did not have time to appreciate how terrible the first bomb was because it took time to get eyewitness accounts, so perhaps US should have waited and then the second bomb would have been unnecessary. (That was the argument anyway-If only Amelia Earhart could have been reached for comment.)
?????????????????????
While there are no firm records.... most estimates for deaths of American POWs run about 40-45% of captured POWs dying in captivity (for comparison, it was less than 2% in German POW camps for Americans). Conditions were even worse for most-non "Western" captives and non-combatants (see Rape of Nan King, Japanese occupation of Singapore, etc., etc...). The idea that the Japanese were somehow our buddies is naive if not laughable... Postwar occupied Japan was very complex.
While I don't necessarily believe the idea she survived the crash - if she did, the mid-war/late war Japanese military did attempt to destroy most records. It was mostly the American retention of decoded messages that was used for post-war war crimes trials. In fact, other than the horrors of Unit 731 (look it up) which perversely were used as a bargaining chip to avoid post-war prosecution, immense amounts of records were destroyed in the final weeks of the war... So, yeah-- the Japanese did withhold a lot...
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By the way, I've mentioned this elsewhere in other threads, but Japan surrendered on a bluff. We had used up all of our fissionable material in those 3 bombs, and would have had to wait 2-3 months before we had enough for more bombs. But Japan didn't know that.
According to more recently released documents, I think a 3rd bomb (4th overall "shot") was being assembled on Tinian and would be ready by August 19th. With 12 additional bombs being made ready for Sept-August deployment.
Hmm.. how different would the world be today if we were made to drop, say, 10 of those all over Japan and Manchuria? Would Japan have hated us forever? Would everyone have hated us, feared us more? Would China or Russia have used them at some point?
I'd like to see those "recently released documents", as it's the first suggestion I've ever heard that we hadn't used our entire supply of U235 & Plutonium in the first 3 bombs.
I appreciate your knowledge, but I wasn't speaking about the Japanese treatment and information about prisoners during and shortly after the war. My point was that given our country's theories and preoccupation about AE, it would have been foolish for Japan to hide their knowledge of her disappearance for all of these years, imo. Of course, if they captured her and mistreated her, that revelation might have been more damaging to our relationship than keeping the knowledge hidden from us.
disagree as the view at the time was we needed them as much as they needed us. MacArthur and the brass wanted a speedy rebuild and resolution of issues.
Many many things were swept under the rug so to speak.