2017 Recruit Andre Rafus back on the market

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Decommits from TCU per Zags. Preciously Played at Roselle Catholic with Bullock.

6'9 SF....not sure if Rutgers would be an option for him, but, we still have a spot.

Holding that spot may turn out to be a good move.....while other P5's may have to make a move to clear a spot.

Any thoughts from those that follow recruiting....maybe @Russ Wood

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Stay far, far away from Rafus.....very difficult to deal with....

 

[Russ Wood]

I was a one-time Rafus fan. Kid is talented but bounced around to multiple schools. I'm concerned about the circle of people around him.

That's crazy. Members of the 2017 class are arriving at most schools this week.

Something must have happened at TCU. I'll check their board.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I was a one-time Rafus fan. Kid is talented but bounced around to multiple schools. I'm concerned about the circle of people around him.

That's crazy. Members of the 2017 class are arriving at most schools this week.

Something must have happened at TCU. I'll check their board.

@RussWood.....UConn transfer Vance Jackson recently added TCU as a visitor for this week (I believe) and obviously is still searching for a destination....he was scheduled to visit Baylor, but I believe Baylor may be targeting Mississippi State's Mario Kegler as a transfer instead......Once Jackson re-routed towards TCU, my guess is that's Jackson's likely choice for a transfer and perhaps Rafus wasn't sure he would find minutes this year and if Jackson lands there, minutes may be very thin in 2018-19 as well.....I have no idea if Jackson is at all connected to Rafus' move, but since Jackson just made that change of course late last week, perhaps it rattled him a bit.

 

[jrh51]

@RussWood.....UConn transfer Vance Jackson recently added TCU as a visitor for this week (I believe) and obviously is still searching for a destination....he was scheduled to visit Baylor, but I believe Baylor may be targeting Mississippi State's Mario Kegler as a transfer instead......Once Jackson re-routed towards TCU, my guess is that's Jackson's likely choice for a transfer and perhaps Rafus wasn't sure he would find minutes this year and if Jackson lands there, minutes may be very thin in 2018-19 as well.....I have no idea if Jackson is at all connected to Rafus' move, but since Jackson just made that change of course late last week, perhaps it rattled him a bit.

FYI - Kegler committed to Baylor yesterday.

https://www.zagsblog.com/2017/06/18/baylor-lands-mississippi-state-transfer-mario-kegler/

 

[Russ Wood]

Looks like Rafus not going to TCU has been developing for more than a month now.

Again, talented kid but his circle is questionable. Looks very high risk per some sources

 

[TruJerz_rivals]

Seen him play multiple times. Wasn't blown away but he has upside..he is tall and long, can shoot the 3 and is pretty athletic..didn't know about his character issues or his circle being a problem. Otherwise wouldn't mind seeing him here

 

[Caliknight]

Basketball recruiting is so sketchy. Seems like every 18 year old has a bunch of hangers-on. Getting tougher to want to follow this sport.

 

[Plum Street]

Basketball recruiting is so sketchy. Seems like every 18 year old has a bunch of hangers-on. Getting tougher to want to follow this sport.

College basketball is kinda like sausages and laws. You don't want to see how either are made.

 

[rufeelinit]

Basketball recruiting is so sketchy. Seems like every 18 year old has a bunch of hangers-on. Getting tougher to want to follow this sport.

I think it has been this way for quite some time. Between AAU handlers and footwear companies it is a cesspool of advisors taking advantage of a large number of kids.

 

[Knights 1212]

This kid has fallen in love with the three. He is like 6'10". I saw him play a lot and I always felt he should play closer to the basket. He didn't want us before. I myself would pass.

 

[Russ Wood]

Basketball recruiting is so sketchy. Seems like every 18 year old has a bunch of hangers-on. Getting tougher to want to follow this sport.

Rafus was once considered an elite player from Baltimore. All I'll say about recruiting Baltimore is that you typically have to keep several people around a prospect happy in order to land elite Baltimore kids.

But to your larger point, that's because you seldom hear about kids who don't have a bunch of hangers-on.

There are plenty of recruitments I've covered that consisted of the kid, one or both of his parents & his HS Coach.

Two of those kids just won the national championship. One is going to be drafted in the 1st round, one will be a lottery pick & one will probably be the 1st name called in the draft.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

Rafus was once considered an elite player from Baltimore. All I'll say about recruiting Baltimore is that you typically have to keep several people around a prospect happy in order to land elite Baltimore kids.

But to your larger point, that's because you seldom hear about kids who don't have a bunch of hangers-on.

There are plenty of recruitments I've covered that consisted of the kid, one or both of his parents & his HS Coach.

Two of those kids just won the national championship. One is going to be drafted in the 1st round, one will be a lottery pick & one will probably be the 1st name called in the draft.

I guess the bunch of hangers-on has to be a red flag in many ways - not necessarily a show stopper- but a real think twice, three times and consider the impact - (especially if you are trying to build a program with a system and one where players sacrafice for the greater good of the team & players stay through to graduation) - Probably not as big a concern for the programs that have thoroughly embraced the one& done - just passing through to the NBA approach.

Question - Once tied into a bunch of hangers-ons - have you ever seen a kid be able to cut the ties? been able to turn around and say - thanks for the past advice - but I'm in college now & from here on it is my education, my career, my life - and you now have to just be a spectator.

 

[higgins3]

I wish it was that way, Rumba.

A kid that falls in love with the 3 pt show in my eyes is not always the kid you want. Unless he makes it at a 40% clip and up. Usually means they don't find themselves ready for the physical part of the game.

 

[jrh51]

Rafus was once considered an elite player from Baltimore. All I'll say about recruiting Baltimore is that you typically have to keep several people around a prospect happy in order to land elite Baltimore kids.

But to your larger point, that's because you seldom hear about kids who don't have a bunch of hangers-on.

There are plenty of recruitments I've covered that consisted of the kid, one or both of his parents & his HS Coach.

Two of those kids just won the national championship. One is going to be drafted in the 1st round, one will be a lottery pick & one will probably be the 1st name called in the draft.

Russ - to your knowledge does this apply to RU's top target, Montez Mathis? He's from the Baltimore area, but I haven't heard anything negative around his "circle" which is encouraging.

 

[higgins3]

Russ - to your knowledge does this apply to RU's top target, Montez Mathis? He's from the Baltimore area, but I haven't heard anything negative around his "circle" which is encouraging.

Its going to vary person to person. You can't apply this as fits all. Sure, it may happen more in Baltimore, but thats not saying every kid in Baltimore has a group around him. Typically, you probably want to stay away from these kids as a coach. There is a reason he is not being chased by Rutgers. It's a red flag scenario for a coach when you see this. Some teams will bite if they are desperate enough, but the top programs probably keep their distance. Or they might go for it and pay these people off.

College sports is so dirty.

Montez Mathis has his family on visits. Immanuel Quickley the same.

 

[KnightTerrors]

I understand taking kids like this is a gamble but it's one I feel we need to take.

We need to attract a much higher talent level and I'm fine taking a chance and trust pikiell can keep the kid in check. If not he's out the door and we are back to square one.

I could see why people may think I'm wrong but personally I'd take the risk.

 

[MV9000]

Since he can play in the 17' class. I say take him. Dont see Pike letting his group around him letting him be wild. He showed with Corey sitting/suspended 1 game that he doesnt let these kids act up.

Kid is tall, can spread the floor and im sure with his height Pike can get him working in the paint. Go for it.

 

[jrh51]

Its going to vary person to person. You can't apply this as fits all. Sure, it may happen more in Baltimore, but thats not saying every kid in Baltimore has a group around him. Typically, you probably want to stay away from these kids as a coach. There is a reason he is not being chased by Rutgers. It's a red flag scenario for a coach when you see this. Some teams will bite if they are desperate enough, but the top programs probably keep their distance. Or they might go for it and pay these people off.

College sports is so dirty.

Montez Mathis has his family on visits. Immanuel Quickley the same.

Understood - that was the point of me asking the question...

 

[higgins3]

Understood - that was the point of me asking the question...

I gotcha. I just thought I'd give my .02 seeing it is a fragile topic to talk about. You don't want the answer lingering in peoples heads that just because a recruit is from Baltimore, it is going to be bad news.

 

[Russ Wood]

Russ - to your knowledge does this apply to RU's top target, Montez Mathis? He's from the Baltimore area, but I haven't heard anything negative around his "circle" which is encouraging.

Not to my knowledge. I think his circle is his family & AAU coach.

IIRC Mathis lives in Bel Air, MD out in Harford County. That may as well be the moon compared to Baltimore.

Plus it's usually some of the elite kids who have the handlers that can complicate recruitments.

Recruiting those kids doesn't mean a program is desperate (as someone posted), a program just has to decide if they're willing to deal with more people than just the kid, his parent(s) & his coach.

Syracuse recruited Baltimore pretty well for a while. I guess Syracuse just had a knack for building relationships with player's uncles.

 

[NBKnight]

I understand taking kids like this is a gamble but it's one I feel we need to take.

We need to attract a much higher talent level and I'm fine taking a chance and trust pikiell can keep the kid in check. If not he's out the door and we are back to square one.

I could see why people may think I'm wrong but personally I'd take the risk.

We are not in position to decide if this kid is or is not worth the gamble.

 

[higgins3]

The program is still in a position to find out what this kid is worth. My take- they will not show much interest. You do not build programs with a Rafus kind of player. I hate to be mean, but it has been shown what the staff wants.

 

[RutgHoops]

Syracuse recruited Baltimore pretty well for a while. I guess Syracuse just had a knack for building relationships with player's uncles.

That made me lol.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

We are not in position to decide if this kid is or is not worth the gamble.

Not sure which way you mean this - but it appears that Steve Pikiell is not going gambling - either he & his staff are convinced that a recruit is capable of playing and thriving in the structure that they are building - and that they will mesh with the team that they are creating - or they will pass - if they have doubts /genuine questions / see serious red flags - then it just is not going to happen ... they are not going to 'gamble' the progress of their plan for the sake of taking a chance on a 3-4 star who might or might not ever deliver value and possibly - if they actually sense it - presents real concerns.

 

[rufamily]

College basketball is kinda like sausages and laws. You don't want to see how either are made.

Quoting Otto Von Bismarck on a Rutgers board. Nicely done

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Not sure which way you mean this - but it appears that Steve Pikiell is not going gambling - either he & his staff are convinced that a recruit is capable of playing and thriving in the structure that they are building - and that they will mesh with the team that they are creating - or they will pass - if they have doubts /genuine questions / see serious red flags - then it just is not going to happen ... they are not going to 'gamble' the progress of their plan for the sake of taking a chance on a 3-4 star who might or might not ever deliver value and possibly - if they actually sense it - presents real concerns.

He can't really afford to have too many "misses", so he is mitigating potential issues...can't blame him.

 

[Russ Wood]

We are not in position to decide if this kid is or is not worth the gamble.

Maybe if he was an in-state kid but despite one year at Roselle Catholic he's not a Jersey kid so no relationships are harmed by not pursuing him now.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'll be a broken record. When RU lands a Top 150 player you always have to question why. A legit Top 150 player has 4-5 offers from much better schools who really want the player. The RU Top 150 player has issues and other schools aren't "hot" on the player.

We need to start taking less gambles. Take guys who you are more apt to trust. Will play D, go to classes, and make the extra pass. With success on the court we will eventually get fans to fill the building and start being a viable place for a legit Top 150.

 

[TDIrish27]

I think that's a worthy goal but I question whether it's attainable.

It appears you want to make Rutgers into UVA or Wisc and the fact is they aren't-----completely different culture .

I think you do what SHU did-----get better guys on campus and live with the occasional headaches.

 

[Russ Wood]

Seen him play multiple times. Wasn't blown away but he has upside..he is tall and long, can shoot the 3 and is pretty athletic..didn't know about his character issues or his circle being a problem. Otherwise wouldn't mind seeing him here

To the best of my knowledge Rafus' doesn't have character 'issues,' whatever that means. He is not a bad kid, I want to be very clear on that.

 

[higgins3]

I'll be a broken record. When RU lands a Top 150 player you always have to question why. A legit Top 150 player has 4-5 offers from much better schools who really want the player. The RU Top 150 player has issues and other schools aren't "hot" on the player.

We need to start taking less gambles. Take guys who you are more apt to trust. Will play D, go to classes, and make the extra pass. With success on the court we will eventually get fans to fill the building and start being a viable place for a legit Top 150.

This staff has not been gambling.

 

[NBKnight]

Not sure which way you mean this - but it appears that Steve Pikiell is not going gambling - either he & his staff are convinced that a recruit is capable of playing and thriving in the structure that they are building - and that they will mesh with the team that they are creating - or they will pass - if they have doubts /genuine questions / see serious red flags - then it just is not going to happen ... they are not going to 'gamble' the progress of their plan for the sake of taking a chance on a 3-4 star who might or might not ever deliver value and possibly - if they actually sense it - presents real concerns.

That was kind of my point, I was responding to a post that said he was worth gamble.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

I'll be a broken record. When RU lands a Top 150 player you always have to question why. A legit Top 150 player has 4-5 offers from much better schools who really want the player. The RU Top 150 player has issues and other schools aren't "hot" on the player.

We need to start taking less gambles. Take guys who you are more apt to trust. Will play D, go to classes, and make the extra pass. With success on the court we will eventually get fans to fill the building and start being a viable place for a legit Top 150.

Appears like that is consistent with Pikiell's strategic plan (and the one that Hobbs bought into) - he seems to be focused on creating a solid transformation in the direction of high quality - one where when people think of Rutgers Basketball - they say - "Oh, they play really good basketball - a genuinely synchronized 'team game' - they will wear you out - play a nearly flawless game - and seize on every mistake you make" - - of course they are not there yet - but that is where Pikiell is determined to go - - - and as recruits and high school coaches see this and actually trust that Pikiell will be able to sustain it - there will be high talent/high potential/high ranked / high character recruits who will want to be a part of the program.
To get there, Pikiell & his staff are going to cull through every possible repository of potential recruits, searching for prospects that can fit in the plan. In the near term, the priority will be on high motor, high dedication & character, and the staff seeing genuine talent and solid potential for development.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I'll be a broken record. When RU lands a Top 150 player you always have to question why. A legit Top 150 player has 4-5 offers from much better schools who really want the player. The RU Top 150 player has issues and other schools aren't "hot" on the player.

We need to start taking less gambles. Take guys who you are more apt to trust. Will play D, go to classes, and make the extra pass. With success on the court we will eventually get fans to fill the building and start being a viable place for a legit Top 150.

Not sure about the 1st paragraph, but agree on the 2nd paragraph.

The 1st paragraph usually means the player has some sort of "issue", when every program in the country have multiple players that are problematic....This is not isolated to some filter that only leaves RU as a viable option...it just means that the player may be talented, but not a true fit at a better school. I'll use Myles Mack as an example...he was clearly a Top 150 talent, but clearly was not ever a point guard that was asked to run an offense and was truly an undersized shooting guard. Teams that evaluate "Point Guards", are going to shy away from a guard that truly isn't a point, but may classified there because of his height.

Considering how inept our strength and conditioning program has been for more than a decade prior to Pikiell, it's clear that in some cases, we didn't develop the pieces we had OR the staff didn't command the work ethic necessary from some of the players here under past staffs.

As much as people are obsessed with talent, it takes a good mix of players and personalities to truly break out of the cycle of playing selfishly, making the extra pass and not being 100% "self-focused". There are rosters like Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State in the B1G and others around the country that are isolating specific recruiting targets that fit their culture. It was one of the main reasons Ohio State really focused on taking Holtmann away from Butler, Ohio State needed a culture change more than talent influx.....they are likely going to get both moving forward ASAP.

 

[higgins3]

Unless I am out of the loop, the staff has not had communication with Rafus since he de-committed.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Appears like that is consistent with Pikiell's strategic plan (and the one that Hobbs bought into) - he seems to be focused on creating a solid transformation in the direction of high quality - one where when people think of Rutgers Basketball - they say - "Oh, they play really good basketball - a genuinely synchronized 'team game' - they will wear you out - play a nearly flawless game - and seize on every mistake you make" - - of course they are not there yet - but that is where Pikiell is determined to go - - - and as recruits and high school coaches see this and actually trust that Pikiell will be able to sustain it - there will be high talent/high potential/high ranked / high character recruits who will want to be a part of the program.
To get there, Pikiell & his staff are going to cull through every possible repository of potential recruits, searching for prospects that can fit in the plan. In the near term, the priority will be on high motor, high dedication & character, and the staff seeing genuine talent and solid potential for development.

"...cull through every possible repository..."! You've been reading too many posts from me and camden! I like it.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Unless I am out of the loop, the staff has not had communication with Rafus since he de-committed.

Are in the loop that much that you typically know who Pikiell and Staff may be in contact with....I'm impressed.

 

[higgins3]

Are in the loop that much that you typically know who Pikiell and Staff may be in contact with....I'm impressed.

Just twittrr. Although I am sure many of us see the trend in Pikiells targets. Long arms, good kid, can play different positions, gym rats, gritty, To me, Rufus does not fit the bill while coach is laying a foundation.