OT-Parisi Speed School

ruhudsonfan

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Oct 20, 2003
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I'm in awe a 6 year old can stand in there
against a 60 mph pitch from little league distance.
i can't see how hitting off of Goose Gossage at 6 years old would be considered fun or remotely good for you.

JR Richards...

I mean what would you know about it? It's not like you were first team All State, Parade All-American, drafted in the 1st round, made it to the show by 20, won a World Series and sat at the dinner table with the best catcher in the history of the game or anything...

oh wait...
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
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JR Richards...

I mean what would you know about it? It's not like you were first team All State, Parade All-American, drafted in the 1st round, made it to the show by 20, won a World Series and sat at the dinner table with the best catcher in the history of the game or anything...

oh wait...

From this link

Professional baseball player Carl Michael Yastrzemski was born on August 22, 1939, in Southampton, New York, before moving to Bridgehampton, a small working-class town on Long Island with a population of fewer than 3,000. His father was a potato farmer, and aside from selling potatoes for market, the Yastrzemskis were almost entirely self-sufficient: They cultivated their own vegetable garden and slaughtered their own cattle for meat.

Yastrzemski began working on the family farm at a very young age, passing his after-school hours lifting heavy sacks of potatoes onto tractor carts. "I used to love those little sacks," he recalls fondly. "Christ, I was like 12 years old, picking those things up. Seventy-five pounds. I kept saying to myself—and this is why I loved it—this is going to help me get strong, help me make it to the big leagues. It was going to help me in baseball."
Don't get me wrong.. Yaz was also a perfectionist.. looking to improve every day... to his last day as a ballplayer (and probably beyond that). When I was a kid I read something about him (after he won the "triple crown") that he used to swing lead pipes at trees.. or some crazy thing like that. Maybe there is something to professional training at a young age.. but is there enough data and anecdotal evidence to show that it works (at a higher rate than those who do not get that training?).
 

e5fdny

Heisman
Nov 11, 2002
114,679
53,904
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And he (@zappaa ) knows a pretty cool priest too.

He's scheduled to do the 5 this Saturday at St. Catherine's, if you're down this weekend. ;)
 
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RU5781

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I'm in awe a 6 year old can stand in there
against a 60 mph pitch from little league distance.
i can't see how hitting off of Goose Gossage at 6 years old would be considered fun or remotely good for you.

He only will flinch if it's at head level. Then he's bailing.
 

RU5781

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On a side note...he had his first class with Parisi today. I thought it was really good and he had a lot of fun.
 

vkj91

Heisman
Feb 7, 2007
188,429
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What holes?
And I can tell you his lessons have paid extreme dividends.
The holes that many have already pointed out. Look, I started off here saying I think it's great you are doing this with your son. That being said, lots of people have made some pretty good arguments already. I can only speak from my experience, so here goes. My son is 8 and plays up to U9 for travel baseball. That means by now most of his team is pushing 10 years old. I'd say 60 percent of these kids only play baseball all year(my son doesn't he plays 3 sports), 50% of them play for an elite academy team that travels the US as well, and 90% of them are getting extra private training. As a team we start training two weeks after football ends. This team is no joke and has won 23 straight games dating back to last year. Our two best pitchers who have pitched 95% of these games are all year round pitching guys with multiple private coaches. We also use a real radar gun at our facility to track our pitchers.
Those two kids consistently throw between 52-54mph for strikes. I remind you they are 23 and 0 in this travel league. My son's little league division is primarily made up of 9,10, and crappy 11 year olds. Last night in the semi finals, he struck out 7 of 9 outs on 51 pitches. He tops out at about 47 mph. He isn't even considered part of the rotation for that travel team. You starting to see the disconnect here?
 

vkj91

Heisman
Feb 7, 2007
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Also- question for VKJ because he may be one of the few qualified to know. I'm thinking about that 60 mph pitch. I know at my age over 50, if I step in a cage and make contact with a few 60 mph pitches, I can feel it in my hands, elbows, etc. That is with fully developed muscles, bones and 175lbs. If a 6 yo weighing whatever they weigh these days actually makes contact with a pitch like that, could they do and muscle or structural damage from the impact?
They'd never make contact but three things Could occur from that experience.
They'd sh$t their pants
Shatter their little hand as they stand their paralyzed in fearand can't move out of the way
Ruin baseball for them for at least 1 year.
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
31,453
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The holes that many have already pointed out. Look, I started off here saying I think it's great you are doing this with your son. That being said, lots of people have made some pretty good arguments already. I can only speak from my experience, so here goes. My son is 8 and plays up to U9 for travel baseball. That means by now most of his team is pushing 10 years old. I'd say 60 percent of these kids only play baseball all year(my son doesn't he plays 3 sports), 50% of them play for an elite academy team that travels the US as well, and 90% of them are getting extra private training. As a team we start training two weeks after football ends. This team is no joke and has won 23 straight games dating back to last year. Our two best pitchers who have pitched 95% of these games are all year round pitching guys with multiple private coaches. We also use a real radar gun at our facility to track our pitchers.
Those two kids consistently throw between 52-54mph for strikes. I remind you they are 23 and 0 in this travel league. My son's little league division is primarily made up of 9,10, and crappy 11 year olds. Last night in the semi finals, he struck out 7 of 9 outs on 51 pitches. He tops out at about 47 mph. He isn't even considered part of the rotation for that travel team. You starting to see the disconnect here?

This

My 9 year old plays rec and travel.

At the rec level he'll routinely pitch three complete innings on the 50 pitch count...by routinely, I mean every time. He has superior control, but doesn't throw overly hard. He's in the mid to high 40s. He averages 6 strikeouts and less than 1 walk per game.

He is the 3rd/4th pitcher on the travel team. The 2/3rd pitchers have very good control and throw in the low 50s. The top kid is the kid I described upthread. He gets 1 on 1 training 2-3x a week, 12 months of the year. He touches 60--but not with consistency. He's on the radar of every rating service.

Yeah, major disconnect. Unless this little league is the equivalent of the 1980 Russian hockey team
 

RU5781

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Nov 13, 2006
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What holes?
And I can tell you his lessons have paid extreme dividends.
The holes that many have already pointed out. Look, I started off here saying I think it's great you are doing this with your son. That being said, lots of people have made some pretty good arguments already. I can only speak from my experience, so here goes. My son is 8 and plays up to U9 for travel baseball. That means by now most of his team is pushing 10 years old. I'd say 60 percent of these kids only play baseball all year(my son doesn't he plays 3 sports), 50% of them play for an elite academy team that travels the US as well, and 90% of them are getting extra private training. As a team we start training two weeks after football ends. This team is no joke and has won 23 straight games dating back to last year. Our two best pitchers who have pitched 95% of these games are all year round pitching guys with multiple private coaches. We also use a real radar gun at our facility to track our pitchers.
Those two kids consistently throw between 52-54mph for strikes. I remind you they are 23 and 0 in this travel league. My son's little league division is primarily made up of 9,10, and crappy 11 year olds. Last night in the semi finals, he struck out 7 of 9 outs on 51 pitches. He tops out at about 47 mph. He isn't even considered part of the rotation for that travel team. You starting to see the disconnect here?

OK?
Our rec league is generally made up of very good players, and meh. The good players all get private training for the most part and are also part of travel baseball.
One 12yo can hit 70 but you pray every time you are in the batters box because he makes Wild Thing look like Greg Maddux.
Two other kids, both 12...routinely hit 60.
The crazy thing is, my 3rd pitcher...he is 7. He is the number one pitcher on his 8u travel team (that is EXCELLENT), but barely cracks my rec pitching rotation, which consists of an 8yo, 7yo, and a girl (she is goooood).
Do I think my son is the second coming of Mike Trout? No.
But he does have talent, the desire, the competitiveness, and no fear. That's a lethal combo, and he'll go as far as his heart wants to take him.
If in two years he hates it and wants to dance, so be it.
 

vkj91

Heisman
Feb 7, 2007
188,429
49,564
98
OK?
Our rec league is generally made up of very good players, and meh. The good players all get private training for the most part and are also part of travel baseball.
One 12yo can hit 70 but you pray every time you are in the batters box because he makes Wild Thing look like Greg Maddux.
Two other kids, both 12...routinely hit 60.
The crazy thing is, my 3rd pitcher...he is 7. He is the number one pitcher on his 8u travel team (that is EXCELLENT), but barely cracks my rec pitching rotation, which consists of an 8yo, 7yo, and a girl (she is goooood).
Do I think my son is the second coming of Mike Trout? No.
But he does have talent, the desire, the competitiveness, and no fear. That's a lethal combo, and he'll go as far as his heart wants to take him.
If in two years he hates it and wants to dance, so be it.
I'm not gonna argue but on one hand we have what you say and on the other we have zap and a bunch of other dads/ coaches, and ex pros saying something else. If any of those kids want to play for a real academy that has won NC's let me know because it appears you guys are to little league what Miami Dade county is to college football. Or you guys could all skip one private lesson and use the savings for a radar gun that works.
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
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I don't feel like doing the math, but 70mph from a little league mound is the approximate equivalent of 108mph from 60'6"
 

RU5781

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If there's a wild 12 year old throwing 70 from 45 feet, he's a major health hazard that needs to be quarantined.

At that age, they aren't throwing from 45 feet.
They throw from 42 then 46 at the younger leagues.
 

RU5781

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I don't feel like doing the math, but 70mph from a little league mound is the approximate equivalent of 108mph from 60'6"

There's also almost zero movement, no change ups, and kids at that age shouldn't be throwing curves (unless you have an idiot manager). What's your point? Anyone can time a fastball.
You can also stand on a chair and drop the ball in front of them.
At that distance, it's like a 95mph fastball.
 

RU5781

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2006
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OK?
Our rec league is generally made up of very good players, and meh. The good players all get private training for the most part and are also part of travel baseball.
One 12yo can hit 70 but you pray every time you are in the batters box because he makes Wild Thing look like Greg Maddux.
Two other kids, both 12...routinely hit 60.
The crazy thing is, my 3rd pitcher...he is 7. He is the number one pitcher on his 8u travel team (that is EXCELLENT), but barely cracks my rec pitching rotation, which consists of an 8yo, 7yo, and a girl (she is goooood).
Do I think my son is the second coming of Mike Trout? No.
But he does have talent, the desire, the competitiveness, and no fear. That's a lethal combo, and he'll go as far as his heart wants to take him.
If in two years he hates it and wants to dance, so be it.
I'm not gonna argue but on one hand we have what you say and on the other we have zap and a bunch of other dads/ coaches, and ex pros saying something else. If any of those kids want to play for a real academy that has won NC's let me know because it appears you guys are to little league what Miami Dade county is to college football. Or you guys could all skip one private lesson and use the savings for a radar gun that works.

Ex-pros aren't saying something else, at least not the younger and current ones. To each his own.
Ask ten players the same stuff and you'll probably get 8 different answers.
Huddy and Johnny should stick to MLB the Show.
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
31,453
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There's also almost zero movement, no change ups, and kids at that age shouldn't be throwing curves (unless you have an idiot manager). What's your point? Anyone can time a fastball.
You can also stand on a chair and drop the ball in front of them.
At that distance, it's like a 95mph fastball.

The point, which despite being delivered to you by 6 different people, is that nobody in your league is throwing 60, let alone 70 on a properly calibrated gun.

Perhaps this coaching experience is your first rodeo with youth baseball.

But you have about 150 years of experience telling you how utterly statistically impossible it would be for any town in NJ to have a stable of 10/11 year olds that throw 60 mph.
 

RU5781

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There's also almost zero movement, no change ups, and kids at that age shouldn't be throwing curves (unless you have an idiot manager). What's your point? Anyone can time a fastball.
You can also stand on a chair and drop the ball in front of them.
At that distance, it's like a 95mph fastball.

The point, which despite being delivered to you by 6 different people, is that nobody in your league is throwing 60, let alone 70 on a properly calibrated gun.

Perhaps this coaching experience is your first rodeo with youth baseball.

But you have about 150 years of experience telling you how utterly statistically impossible it would be for any town in NJ to have a stable of 10/11 year olds that throw 60 mph.

I like how 3 in a league has turned into a stable.
My God, you argue like a woman.
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
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You guys sound like the travel hockey parents I hear at the rink all the time, minus the booze.

You mean the ones who's 6 year old skates like Sidney Crosby, passes liken Gretzky and has ice awareness like Messier? Apprently the little league equivalent of the 1927 Yankees is right under our noses
 

RU5781

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You guys sound like the travel hockey parents I hear at the rink all the time, minus the booze.

You mean the ones who's 6 year old skates like Sidney Crosby, passes liken Gretzky and has ice awareness like Messier? Apprently the little league equivalent of the 1927 Yankees is right under our noses

Ever since Huddy became a liberal, his brain power has dropped quite dramatically.
3 kids throwing 60 makes them the LL equivalent of the 1927 Yanks?
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
31,453
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ahem

"For those of you who are looking for an instructor for your son you had better be very, very careful even if the instructor is a former professional or even major league pitcher. Steve Ellis is a former low A minor league pitcher who wants you to believe, knows what he is talking about. His website is TheCompletePitcher. He has a huge website of information however, most of it is like every other belief based coach…mostly based only the beliefs of that coach. And if you follow it you will find it to be not only counterproductive but possibly dangerous. Steve Ellis apparently got what he knows from his pitching coaches. Steve’s knowledge level, even though he pitched professionally, is far below most of our experienced clients. His knowledge is almost amateurish…especially on mechanics. He also supports all the poplular activities such as long toss, short bullpens, less than game intensity and low volume bullpens, weight lifting, flat ground pitching, drills of course and anything else that is popular with most coaches. One way to find out fast if a pitching instructor knows what he is talking about is to ask him how pitchers develop velocity. Then sit back and listen. Steve Ellis has not done his homework and yet he is out there promoting himself as an expert. Unfortunately people believe that former pro pitchers, even low A minor leaguers, are experts. You can also ask instructors like Steve Ellis other questions such as why arm strength is important? Ask about weight lifting. Flat ground pitching. Drills. Low volume and low intensity bullpens. Stride length…etc. Here is an article that Steve Ellis wrote about Detroit’s Zumaya’s mechanics and how he produces 100 mph velocity. Again, unfortunately, Steve Ellis is way off the mark in how these pitchers produce velocity. Steve Ellis believes pitchers should stride 77-87% of their height. However, he does not qualify how he determines stride length. Dr. Glenn Fleisig measures it from the rubber to the mid-ankle which may be in the 80% range or a bit more. I personally measure from rubber to big toe. It will then be about the same. But you must qualify that. A pitcher who is 6’3″ and strides 60 inches by measuring to mid-ankle will be similar to 90% to the front toe. But you must qualify that. Most people do not measure to mid-ankle so they end up with too short a stride. If a growing pitcher has an exceptionally large foot then his stride will seem longer. His analysis is disturbing because fathers and kids are going to employ what he says and will actually lose velocity. What he is proposing will slow down every pitcher. I have watched Zumaya pitch many times and what Steve is describing does not happen. Can you see why Steve Ellis doesn’t get it and exactly what he is saying is the exact opposite of what his happening. When you find someone like Steve Ellis who is wrong on something like this, you had better realize that any other advice he is giving out may also be way off the mark. Dick “Zumaya’s mechanics are fluid, smooth, effortless. They’re repeatable. His power? It comes from stride, which is about 80 percent of his height. (Zumaya is 6-foot-3, his stride foot lands about 5 feet in front of the rubber.) Stride length is a major contributor to pitching velocity. According to ASMI, a sport research facility in Birmingham, Ala., a baseball pitcher should stride out about 77 to 87 percent of his height. Zumaya’s right in the middle of that distance. When his lift leg raises into the “apex position,” he loads all his weight – 210 pounds – onto his back leg. His next movement is where he gets his power: His leg drops straight down. His body stays still. He doesn’t move forward toward the plate until his left foot is about 4 to 6 inches off of the ground. Then he strides out laterally. His lateral movement isn’t led by his hip, it’s lead by his left foot – and his head stays at the center of his body, forming a pyramid. That’s how most hard-throwing pitchers achieve optimal pitching velocity. They stride right. Their lead foot drops down and then out before their weight starts moving forward.”

That was written by Dick Mills who was one of the best pitching coaches on the planet before he died.

Keep taking the anecdotal personal experience based advice of people that want to sell you ****.
 

RU5781

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Nov 13, 2006
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ahem

"For those of you who are looking for an instructor for your son you had better be very, very careful even if the instructor is a former professional or even major league pitcher. Steve Ellis is a former low A minor league pitcher who wants you to believe, knows what he is talking about. His website is TheCompletePitcher. He has a huge website of information however, most of it is like every other belief based coach…mostly based only the beliefs of that coach. And if you follow it you will find it to be not only counterproductive but possibly dangerous. Steve Ellis apparently got what he knows from his pitching coaches. Steve’s knowledge level, even though he pitched professionally, is far below most of our experienced clients. His knowledge is almost amateurish…especially on mechanics. He also supports all the poplular activities such as long toss, short bullpens, less than game intensity and low volume bullpens, weight lifting, flat ground pitching, drills of course and anything else that is popular with most coaches. One way to find out fast if a pitching instructor knows what he is talking about is to ask him how pitchers develop velocity. Then sit back and listen. Steve Ellis has not done his homework and yet he is out there promoting himself as an expert. Unfortunately people believe that former pro pitchers, even low A minor leaguers, are experts. You can also ask instructors like Steve Ellis other questions such as why arm strength is important? Ask about weight lifting. Flat ground pitching. Drills. Low volume and low intensity bullpens. Stride length…etc. Here is an article that Steve Ellis wrote about Detroit’s Zumaya’s mechanics and how he produces 100 mph velocity. Again, unfortunately, Steve Ellis is way off the mark in how these pitchers produce velocity. Steve Ellis believes pitchers should stride 77-87% of their height. However, he does not qualify how he determines stride length. Dr. Glenn Fleisig measures it from the rubber to the mid-ankle which may be in the 80% range or a bit more. I personally measure from rubber to big toe. It will then be about the same. But you must qualify that. A pitcher who is 6’3″ and strides 60 inches by measuring to mid-ankle will be similar to 90% to the front toe. But you must qualify that. Most people do not measure to mid-ankle so they end up with too short a stride. If a growing pitcher has an exceptionally large foot then his stride will seem longer. His analysis is disturbing because fathers and kids are going to employ what he says and will actually lose velocity. What he is proposing will slow down every pitcher. I have watched Zumaya pitch many times and what Steve is describing does not happen. Can you see why Steve Ellis doesn’t get it and exactly what he is saying is the exact opposite of what his happening. When you find someone like Steve Ellis who is wrong on something like this, you had better realize that any other advice he is giving out may also be way off the mark. Dick “Zumaya’s mechanics are fluid, smooth, effortless. They’re repeatable. His power? It comes from stride, which is about 80 percent of his height. (Zumaya is 6-foot-3, his stride foot lands about 5 feet in front of the rubber.) Stride length is a major contributor to pitching velocity. According to ASMI, a sport research facility in Birmingham, Ala., a baseball pitcher should stride out about 77 to 87 percent of his height. Zumaya’s right in the middle of that distance. When his lift leg raises into the “apex position,” he loads all his weight – 210 pounds – onto his back leg. His next movement is where he gets his power: His leg drops straight down. His body stays still. He doesn’t move forward toward the plate until his left foot is about 4 to 6 inches off of the ground. Then he strides out laterally. His lateral movement isn’t led by his hip, it’s lead by his left foot – and his head stays at the center of his body, forming a pyramid. That’s how most hard-throwing pitchers achieve optimal pitching velocity. They stride right. Their lead foot drops down and then out before their weight starts moving forward.”

That was written by Dick Mills who was one of the best pitching coaches on the planet before he died.

Keep taking the anecdotal personal experience based advice of people that want to sell you ****.

LOL. You ignored the other link. And Google, if you look up the average pitching speed of a 12yo.
Nice try though. At least be a man and admit when you're wrong.
 

ruhudsonfan

Heisman
Oct 20, 2003
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LOL. You ignored the other link. And Google, if you look up the average pitching speed of a 12yo.
Nice try though. At least be a man and admit when you're wrong.

Like the first link, there is no data supporting the second link.

I wonder what could possibly motivate a person selling online pitching programs to overstate the average velocity of different age groups?
 

RU5781

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LOL. You ignored the other link. And Google, if you look up the average pitching speed of a 12yo.
Nice try though. At least be a man and admit when you're wrong.

Like the first link, there is no data supporting the second link.

I wonder what could possibly motivate a person selling online pitching programs to overstate the average velocity of different age groups?

Keep looking huddy. I know you know how to find it.
And guess what? It also says it on countless other websites that don't sell stuff.
It's OK to be wrong. Your Internet friends will still like you.
 

RUckusbuck

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Jul 25, 2001
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Reminds me of when my friend next door and I melted down his brother's GI Joe.
No freaking lie...when my Uncle got back home from Vietnam, he would set up a bag of green plastic army men in battle mode then squirt lighter fluid on them... Then he would toss a match on it and watch them melt... Did it at least once a month for kicks...
 
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LOL. You ignored the other link. And Google, if you look up the average pitching speed of a 12yo.
Nice try though. At least be a man and admit when you're wrong.
He is not wrong. Just because someone played major or minor baseball doesn't mean he is a good instructor. Hudsons description on stride is spot on. Pull up videos if Tom Seaver or look at Nolan Ryan's stride.
 
Last edited:

RU5781

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LOL. You ignored the other link. And Google, if you look up the average pitching speed of a 12yo.
Nice try though. At least be a man and admit when you're wrong.
He is not wrong. Just because someone played major or minor baseball doesn't mean he is a good instructor. Hudsons description on stride is spot on. Pull up videos if Tom Seaver or look at Nolan Ryan's stride.

He's completely wrong about pitching speeds. Completely wrong.
 

ruhudsonfan

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Oct 20, 2003
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Why because you say so?

Anyone with $20 bucks and a wordpress account is an expert.

Ellis is a hack.

The second link says things like, "on average a 12 year old throws about blah blah blah"

Sounds definitive to me.

He goes on to say, "pitching is a thing that you are either good at or you're not."

Haha. Okay sport
 

Jtung230

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Jun 30, 2005
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Best thing for your son is to move to FL. Btw, you can't teach speed. You can teach how to maximize one's speed. Good luck and enjoy.
 
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RU5781

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Why because you say so?

Anyone with $20 bucks and a wordpress account is an expert.

Ellis is a hack.

The second link says things like, "on average a 12 year old throws about blah blah blah"

Sounds definitive to me.

He goes on to say, "pitching is a thing that you are either good at or you're not."

Haha. Okay sport

Prove otherwise then.
You can't.
 

vkj91

Heisman
Feb 7, 2007
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Herman-Giddens and colleagues looked for two signs that boys had begun puberty: sparse pubic hair growth and an increase in the size of the testicles to 4 millimeters (at full sexual maturity, the testicles measure 25 millimeters).

Not buying it based on one study that looked for sparse hair growth. Puberty on average is 12-16. Unless my town is some outlier not many 12 year olds have gone through puberty. not that I'm a PSU fan checking