OT: Mid-sized sedans, $25-35,000

[fatsam98]

How is the mazda6 in the snow?

 

[theRU]

You're funny. All this angst. Why is that?


First of all, why can't we talk about vehicle dynamics in the 25-35k range? For one thing, it's definitely NOT "econobox territory". The fact that you actually said that shows you have no clue what the hell you're talking about. But putting aside your own personal failings for a moment, some of the greatest handling, most fun to drive cars in all of automotive history have been among the least expensive, in their time.

And saying the Malibu "looks better and even is better executed than the camry or accord" is further evidence of your soft-headedness. The Camry may be as ugly as your dog, but it's among the most reliable cars on the market. And the execution of the Accord is brilliant - they're just not much fun to drive. That said, they're more fun to drive than a Malibu.

Your shrillness over the whole "dieselgate" thing is kinda funny, too. All manufacturers game the EPA (and its peers). It's an age-old and important sport, like tossing the caber. Go back and research all the manufacturers that have run afoul of eco-testing over the last 40 years (the catalytic converter age). It's a long list.

The fact remains, that in spite of your rather uneducated ranting, a 25k Jetta will drive circles around anything on your list.

So first of all you spout off a whole bunch of pompous,arrogant statement and now you are asking why i have Angst? Feel free to get off your high horse anytime.

I try to include FACTS with my personal opinions. Fact #1 the malibu is a highly rated well received competitor in this space. Fact # 2 The average selling price of a car in the US is around $34000, so when you are talking about a price range that start 30% below avg, 25 k is absolutely econobox territory, if you say its not then you are freaking deluded. Of course you could still buy cars for under 20K that barely fit 2 people side by side but Accords, Camry, Malibus are all econoboxs at 20-25. His range of 25 to 35 puts all these right in there.

Shrillness? Have you seen the fine they got levied? Its unprecedented. According to you, sounds like this happens all the time though. Lol. Again Deluded... How much are VW and Audi paying you?

 

[RU4Real]

So first of all you spout off a whole bunch of pompous,arrogant statement and now you are asking why i have Angst? Feel free to get off your high horse anytime.

I try to include FACTS with my personal opinions. Fact #1 the malibu is a highly rated well received competitor in this space. Fact # 2 The average selling price of a car in the US is around $34000, so when you are talking about a price range that start 30% below avg, 25 k is absolutely econobox territory, if you say its not then you are freaking deluded. Of course you could still buy cars for under 20K that barely fit 2 people side by side but Accords, Camry, Malibus are all econoboxs at 20-25. His range of 25 to 35 puts all these right in there.

Shrillness? Have you seen the fine they got levied? Its unprecedented. According to you, sounds like this happens all the time though. Lol. Again Deluded... How much are VW and Audi paying you?

Your second paragraph is entirely wrong. You should really just apologize and walk away.

An "econobox" is something like a Ford Fiesta. It is, categorically, that group of cars known as "subcompact". They have base MSRPs under $15,000.

The more you stick to this insane assertion, the more ridiculous you look.

It's advisable, when talking about cars, to actually know something about them. You do not.

Also, you're now on my Ignore list. I don't have time for "stupid".

 

[ajbush12]

In 2013, I was shopping for pretty much the same exact cars and price market. I test drove pretty much everything and narrowed it down to the Altima, Fusion and Optima. I ended up going with the Optima and I'm really glad I did. The options for the money I just could not turn down. Also, it has been really reliable. The car kinda stinks in the snow but that goes along with pretty much any FWD vehicle with a lower ground clearance. I swapped the tires out for Continental DWS and the car handles snow much better. I went with the SXL version and love the turbo it has.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Don't have interest in arguing, but this category is definitely not "econobox. " Period.

 

[dollarbill]

The Accord 4 cylinder engine is more than adequate. I get 33 mpg combined on every tankful of gas. Make your life easy. Go to Costco auto program. Spend ten minutes at the dealership. Finance the whole thing at .90% and take one more thing out of play in your life. $$$$

 

[RUfinal4]

Don't have interest in arguing, but this category is definitely not "econobox. " Period.

This category is the typical family car category. Because SUVs are popular now the category is not as popular as 10-15 years ago but many don't like SUVs and these cars can sit 5 adults..

These are all very popular Uber cars since they are reliable and can comfortably seat adults in the back seat.

 

[SHUSource]

Not in the market myself, but I know a guy who said the Chevy Impala is surprisingly competitive among peers.

Car and Driver liked it a lot

The people across the street have one, and they like it. I could do worse, I suppose.

 

[SHUSource]

OP:

You know you want the Honda Accord, so just get it. Just change the oil, and you'll get 300K miles easily and most cost effectively. Fun to drive, easy on the gas pump, and lots of room as well as trunk space, make the Accord the car to beat. Can fit 5 reasonably sized people easily. Plus parts are easy to come by, since they're so popular. In addition to making Car and Drivers 10 Best Cars it is also the kbb.com buy of the year. Best car of the bunch by a country mile.

It's not so much that I want the Accord, but I do have a feeling that it is probably the smartest choice. I do think the Mazda 6 might not be much behind it, though. It's gonna be an interesting decision.

 

[SHUSource]

OP seems to favor foreign brands. Left off the list:

Chevy Impala
Chevy Malibu
Buick Regal (Mother has one and loves it)
Ford Taurus
Dodge Charger (If I were in the market, this would be my first look)

I never considered myself one who purposefully overlooks domestic brands, but I guess now that I think about it, I've only ever bought one new American car, a 1991 Mustang GT, and I loved it. I was 20 - why wouldn't I have?

I don't think any of those cars you list are bad cars, but just not the ones I happen to like best. The Impala in particular is nicely styled. My dad drove a new Taurus every year for about 15 years, and said he'd never, ever buy one, and he's got no aversion to American brands, so that probably affects my thinking on that one.

 

[SHUSource]

Based on your criteria -
(A.) sedans $25,000 - $35,000. & pretty thrifty, so stay to the low end of range,
(B.) keep cars long time - want to keep happy for 8 - 10 years w few headaches.
and you other comments - like
- I'm a true Honda believer,
- The Mazda has me really intrigued...
-like the Sonata, but we've got one (a 2011) ....
would suggest -

(1.) Yes - Honda is a pretty safe bet - if you want a V6 - buy now - since next-gen will get oomph from a turbo-4 ... everybody has their own opinion - but current Honda Accord design is not likely to get decidedly dated in next 8-10 years - - and it generally is a fool-proof reliable vehicle. Also - just for curiosity sake - you might test drive a civic sedan - civics have been growing in size - and creature comforts - might be an interesting surprise.

(2.) Mazda scores well in this category - often gets the reviewer's nod as 'the driver's car' in this bracket. - There are Mazda's in rental fleets - call around and rent one for a weekend - drive it all over - drive it to some place 100 miles away - see if it is a car that just keeps getting better the more you sit in the driver's seat.

(3.) reboot your brain on the Sonata - you like it - you like your experience & will assume you generally are OK with the dealer - remind yourself that with the rapid rate of improvement that Hyundai has been pursuing - a 2017 Sonata is a dramatically - vastly - different & even better - car from a 2011 - In this price bracket you get a lot for your $ and you get durability. PLUS - if you have a decent relationship with your Hyundai dealer - you & the wife - drive into the dealer with both the Sonata - and the car that you wish to replace - push them on price & other perks - leverage the idea of making you an all Hyundai household -

There are lots of other very good options - and you could spend every weekend until Memorial Day in Car dealer show rooms - but if if car shopping is generally a 'task' to be accomplished and then get on with life - would say - narrow the options like above & then pick what provides the best gut feel.

This all makes good sense - thanks.

 

[SHUSource]

Here's a photo of my Mazda 6 before I got the tints on the windows.

See, this is good. I think if a sedan is good-looking, fun to drive, and is pretty reliable, it's a good car for the money.

 

[SHUSource]

its amazing that people still refuse to consider Ford or GM... Whats also amazing is some of the same hypocrites who say these brands dont deserve a look because of past betrayals are also driving VWs and Audis

Well, I can say with no reservation that the worst car I ever owned was a VW, a 2001 Passat. I would never, ever, buy a Volkswagen again. I'd rather ride the bus. So even though I'm not likely, in this case, to buy one of those American sedans, they wouldn't be last on my list, or even close to it.

 

[SHUSource]

I appreciate all the really good input here, folks. Very valuable perspectives!

 

[RUfinal4]

if you go to the domestic vs foreign argument

Chrysler is owner by Fiat (Italian company)
Many toyota's and honda's are assembled in the USA
Many of the parts in GM and Ford vehicles come from other countries.
Many Chevy Cruz's are assembled in Mexico.
Ford is planning to build a Mexican factory.

The only thing 100% American with GM and Ford is that their Headquarters is in the US.

 

[daneman100]

if you go to the domestic vs foreign argument

Chrysler is owner by Fiat (Italian company)
Many toyota's and honda's are assembled in the USA
Many of the parts in GM and Ford vehicles come from other countries.
Many Chevy Cruz's are assembled in Mexico.
Ford is planning to build a Mexican factory.

The only thing 100% American with GM and Ford is that their Headquarters is in the US.

Or you could be even more local and go Subaru who has their HQ in NJ (Cherry Hill). Mine was assembled in TN in a plant that is being expanded to produce their new SUV.

 

[daneman100]

So first of all you spout off a whole bunch of pompous,arrogant statement and now you are asking why i have Angst? Feel free to get off your high horse anytime.

I try to include FACTS with my personal opinions. Fact #1 the malibu is a highly rated well received competitor in this space. Fact # 2 The average selling price of a car in the US is around $34000, so when you are talking about a price range that start 30% below avg, 25 k is absolutely econobox territory, if you say its not then you are freaking deluded. Of course you could still buy cars for under 20K that barely fit 2 people side by side but Accords, Camry, Malibus are all econoboxs at 20-25. His range of 25 to 35 puts all these right in there.

Shrillness? Have you seen the fine they got levied? Its unprecedented. According to you, sounds like this happens all the time though. Lol. Again Deluded... How much are VW and Audi paying you?

For mid 20s you can get a well equipped Legacy witch by no stretch of the imagination is an "econobox". Also Camry? That is a midsize, the economy is the Yaris or whatever fills the Tercel space.

 

[RUfinal4]

Or you could be even more local and go Subaru who has their HQ in NJ (Cherry Hill). Mine was assembled in TN in a plant that is being expanded to produce their new SUV.

North American HQ in NJ but Subaru's corp HQ is in Tokyo, Japan

 

[RUSK97]

Or you could be even more local and go Subaru who has their HQ in NJ (Cherry Hill). Mine was assembled in TN in a plant that is being expanded to produce their new SUV.

A lot of auto companies have their US affiliates headquartered in NJ. I certainly wouldn't classify it as a local company.

 

[RUSK97]

Well, I can say with no reservation that the worst car I ever owned was a VW, a 2001 Passat. I would never, ever, buy a Volkswagen again. I'd rather ride the bus. So even though I'm not likely, in this case, to buy one of those American sedans, they wouldn't be last on my list, or even close to it.

I think this is often the case with the domestic manufacturers. When you have such a bad experience with one car, you swear off the brand even though it may not be warranted. For example, my first new car was a 1997 Audi A4 with a 1.8T engine. It was a little underpowered but it was a hoot to drive...when it wasn't in the shop for repairs. I was thrilled to return that car when my lease was up. I'll never look at Audi again even though rumors are they've improved their reliability. On the other hand, I've had very few problems with the domestic marques I've purchased/leased.

 

[bobzilla_rivals662093]

I d buy this. 2013 Lexus 350 f sport w 48k for $28.5k. Owned a 2002 Maxima, they replaced the bottom half of engine at 25k miles as they couldn't explain oil usage of a quart every 5k. Own a 2009 G37s, with 59k, they replaced front of engine for oil pressure problems last summer, becoming jaded on Nissan products.

 

[RU4Real]

I like Lexus as a brand (my wife had an RX 350 for a few years) but they all look like they were designed by Antoni Gaudi. I don't like the Toyota corporate styling language, not one bit.

 

[FanuSanu52]

I kinda dig the Lexus spindle grille - at least on sporty stuff. Toyota and its weird tear ducts and scars, however ..big no.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

I d buy this. 2013 Lexus 350 f sport w 48k for $28.5k. Owned a 2002 Maxima, they replaced the bottom half of engine at 25k miles as they couldn't explain oil usage of a quart every 5k. Own a 2009 G37s, with 59k, they replaced front of engine for oil pressure problems last summer, becoming jaded on Nissan products.

Have been skittish about Nissan ever since the affiliation with Renault - the connection ushered in some funky French styling - and have to say that French vehicles have never impressed - and are often weird.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Have been skittish about Nissan ever since the affiliation with Renault - the connection ushered in some funky French styling - and have to say that French vehicles have never impressed - and are often weird.

The French make some gorgeous and weird (in a good way) concept cars, and Citroën actually sends some of the weird, funky ones to production. Also, Peugeot's Dakar car is absolutely sick.

Other than that, I wouldn't care if I never saw a French auto again.

 

[RUSK97]

I like Lexus as a brand (my wife had an RX 350 for a few years) but they all look like they were designed by Antoni Gaudi. I don't like the Toyota corporate styling language, not one bit.

Ok, I know beauty is in theeye of the beholder, but them there are fighting words. Gaudi was a brilliant artist/designer/architect. In fact, I'll say he was genius. To compare Toyota/Lexus styling to Gaudi is like comparing my turd to a Victoria's Secret lingerie model and saying, "Eh, I see the resemblance."

 

[RU4Real]

Ok, I know beauty is in theeye of the beholder, but them there are fighting words. Gaudi was a brilliant artist/designer/architect. In fact, I'll say he was genius. To compare Toyota/Lexus styling to Gaudi is like comparing my turd to a Victoria's Secret lingerie model and saying, "Eh, I see the resemblance."

I don't like his work.

 

[RUSK97]

I don't like his work.

Bastard. I'll bet you like rectangular brick boxes.

 

[RU4Real]

Bastard. I'll bet you like rectangular brick boxes.

Hmm... No, not at all. Not really even a Frank Lloyd Wright fan.

I guess I'm just more of a traditional gothicist when it comes to things like cathedrals, though. In terms of large office buildings, etc... I like Pei's Bank of China tower.

 

[LevaosLectures]

a little OT, but back in the day you could see a car from a block away, and instantly identify what make/model it was.

today, if you removed all the identifying trim from the car, i wonder how many people could differentiate any similar sized models from the others, from 5 feet away.

I was thinking about this recently when I mistook a Porsche Cayenne for a Nissan Rogue.

 

[RU4Real]

I was thinking about this recently when I mistook a Porsche Cayenne for a Nissan Rogue.

Seriously?

 

[DirtyRU]

Seriously?

Maybe it was a Rogue 1, ha. Still not seeing the comparison, except maybe the elongated headlights.

 

[RU4Real]

Maybe it was a Rogue 1, ha. Still not seeing the comparison, except maybe the elongated headlights.

Everything else aside, the Cayenne is considerably larger than the Rogue.

 

[yesrutgers01]

My 2c- not worth much but wth- I've seen some of the dumbest posts in this thread.
First- when it comes to cars, I tend to agree with 4real most of the time but my preference is BMW over Audi. Though, I also do love the Audi's.
Anyway- the 25-35 range is not my style but in that range I do like the Sonata(eliminated because you have one, no one should ever have 2 in their driveway), Mazda and the Altima. No particular order
Myself and it were a family member, I would recommend going the CPO route. Usually have 20-30k on them, broken in, warranty and have been checked thoroughly. You can get a much better car and at the end of the day- who cares in 10 years if you put on 175k out of the 200k mikes or all 200 yourself...

And some of the guys did make me laugh. I tend to agree. So many of our fanbase in the 30-55 range who love their Fiesta, Malibu etc...show why we do have such a problem with donations. Lol

 

[LevaosLectures]

Everything else aside, the Cayenne is considerably larger than the Rogue.

I think my post could best be described as hyperbolic.

Also I don't know anything about cars.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I think my post could best be described as hyperbolic.

Also I don't know anything about cars.

I believe some would add...football either. lol

 

[Owlfan_in_North Jersey]

SHU,

If my 2 cents mean anything, I had an Accord, a 4 cylinder EX to be exact. Car was a workhouse and everything you could ask for in a car which for me is basic transportation from Point A to B. Anyway, I put 150k on without an issue. Followed the owners manual when it came time to service it and the car returned the favor. Mechanic said with the way I kept the car maintained, I could get 300k on the original engine easily. While it may not be the most "exciting looking" 4 wheeler, I have nothing but high marks for Hondas.

 

[RUhasarrived]

In 1970 I was enthusiastically talking about a 1963 Grand Prix that I was about to buy to a co-worker getting ready to retire.

He told me:"When you get to be my age,you'll find out that cars are a real pain in the ***."

I've found that new cars can be just as bad as are older ones,regardless of anyone's rating.I had a 1975 Mustang that was voted Car of the Year by Car and Driver.They were right.It lasted exactly one year,going on fire twice before I had to practically give it back to the dealer.

I also had a 1987 Omni that would shut off if you went above 50 mph.

I'm keeping my 1998 Cavalier until one of us dies.

 

[RUfinal4]

Did the OP buy a car yet? if so, which one? There were a lot of President's Day salesthis past weekend.

Once he / she posts then we can retire this thread that started with 25-35k cars and somehow went to BMW's, Audis, Lexus's, and Porsche's that are out of the range.

 

[ru78]

I know this is oft-discussed here, but things change constantly. I think the time has come to buy a new car, and I'm looking at sedans between $25,000 and $35,000. I'm pretty thrifty, so the closer I stay to the low end of that range, the happier I'll be. I keep my cars a good, long time, so I just want something that'll keep me pretty happy for eight or ten years with few headaches.

Here's what is currently under consideration:

• Honda Accord
• Mazda 6
• Acura TLX
• Hyundai Sonata
• Kia Optima

I'm a true Honda believer, but the Accord design is kind of dull, and the redesign is long overdue. I know it'll be next year if I buy one now. But you can't beat the reliability.

The Mazda has me really intrigued, and everything I've read makes me feel even better about it. Good looking car, fun to drive, and I'm even seeing that it's reliable. Is that true? If so, that might really work.

The TLX is pretty sweet, and it's probably the one I actually want, but I just don't know if I want to spend the $$$ (not that it's that much). Can anyone make the case for it?

I like the Sonata, but we've got one (a 2011) already, and that's not the car we're replacing. It's been an excellent value so far - very reliable, even if little things break, like the shift handle. I just don't know if I want anther one.

The Kia isn't really a strong contender. I could probably eliminate it here. Am I leaving any good choices off the list? The Subaru Legacy, perhaps? The Ford Fusion? No Volkswagens or Nissans, please - their omission is not mistaken. Also, no Camrys. I know it's a great car, but they put me to sleep.

I appreciate the input - thanks!

Agree with you on Honda but had a lot luck with Nissan
Sentra redesign looks great and under $20K