Why would a recruit even consider seton hall over RU

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Still cant figure out why any kid would want to go to SHU when you can go to RU. Like what exactly does SHU offer? I had friends who went there who would come to RU and visit me all the time because they said SHU campus was a ghost town and dead with nothing to do on weekends.

1) RU is a better school
2) were soon to have better facilities
3) we have an on campus arena
4) we have better fan support (yes we do when were even halfway decent)
5) better school
6) not a commuter school and we have a college atmosphere
7) better campus
8) better dorms
9) better dining halls
10) better conference

I cannot think of one reason why a kid would choose SHU over RU

 

[TMCB]

I agree but shu always got the free new arena via tax money even though they are a small private school. First they got the meadowlands then newark?

 

[NJDOVES]

My granddaughter and I went on visits to 4 different schools. Rutgers, Rider, Seton Hall and Monmouth. She wanted to choose Rutgers because of me but I insisted she take all 4 visits. The worst visit was Rutgers. Each class was approximately 70 students per class, bus ride to each class, just too big. She has since graduated Monmouth and she preferred the small quiet campus feel. Nothing wrong with that...

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

SHU is a good school and they attract more than enough student athletes that want a cozier feel to their school......RU isn't for everyone.....you can get by under the radar at SHU from a media perspective as well. From a sports perspective, they sell that it's their only priority from a fanbase or perspective or the only game in town, vs RU that offers more and has football and other things.

The one mistake I keep seeing is that it's easier to rebuild a basketball program vs football, which is 1000% incorrect......RU football has no in state or regional competition, unless you count Temple....Penn State is the closest competition....

In basketball, you have 10-15 schools within 90 minutes of RU that offer D1 basketball (schools like Villanova, St. Johns, UConn), including hotbeds in Philly, NYC and NJ.....there is massive competition for local recruits and that also includes ACC schools that raid the tristate area for talent. Seton Hall and RU have enormous hurdles in front of them to get to the next level, some kids prefer to get away from home for college basketball and sometimes the local schools need to sell out of state recruits on coming here, vs the other way around.

Plus hoops recruiting is enormously dictated by the AAU circuit, which ultimately limits the recruiting of SHU and RU to a certain extent from competing against a North Carolina/Duke/Kentucky/Kansas type of national program.....Those programs can make a name for an AAU program that sends a kid to a national program. Shoe companies and what brand you are aligned with more times than not impacts what kids are viable and which ones truly aren't.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Over 25 years of being pretty good as opposed to 25 years of stinking.

The problem is not what Seton Hall offers but what RU hasn't.

If RU gets better coaches (may have already) and steady, good leadership, RU will be good and Seton Hall won't be able to keep up.

 

[RUsojo]

Nothing more than the fact that some people prefer private education over public.

 

[dollarbill]

Four letters. $$$$

 

[RUJMM78]

Seton Hall is a basketball school while Rutgers is football dominated.In addition Seton Hall has won far more games the past decade including a Big East Championship and NCAA appearances.
The attributes Rutgers has as a major state university simply haven't translated to having a winning mens basketball program.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

SHU is a good school and they attract more than enough student athletes that want a cozier feel to their school......RU isn't for everyone.....you can get by under the radar at SHU from a media perspective as well. From a sports perspective, they sell that it's their only priority from a fanbase or perspective or the only game in town, vs RU that offers more and has football and other things.

The one mistake I keep seeing is that it's easier to rebuild a basketball program vs football, which is 1000% incorrect......RU football has no in state or regional competition, unless you count Temple....Penn State is the closest competition....

In basketball, you have 10-15 schools within 90 minutes of RU that offer D1 basketball (schools like Villanova, St. Johns, UConn), including hotbeds in Philly, NYC and NJ.....there is massive competition for local recruits and that also includes ACC schools that raid the tristate area for talent. Seton Hall and RU have enormous hurdles in front of them to get to the next level, some kids prefer to get away from home for college basketball and sometimes the local schools need to sell out of state recruits on coming here, vs the other way around.

Plus hoops recruiting is enormously dictated by the AAU circuit, which ultimately limits the recruiting of SHU and RU to a certain extent from competing against a North Carolina/Duke/Kentucky/Kansas type of national program.....Those programs can make a name for an AAU program that sends a kid to a national program. Shoe companies and what brand you are aligned with more times than not impacts what kids are viable and which ones truly aren't.

Well, RU has certainly disproven the theory it is easier to improve a bball program.

 

[shields]

Basketball is the only sport Seton hall has in my opinion.

 

[RC1978]

My granddaughter and I went on visits to 4 different schools. Rutgers, Rider, Seton Hall and Monmouth. She wanted to choose Rutgers because of me but I insisted she take all 4 visits. The worst visit was Rutgers. Each class was approximately 70 students per class, bus ride to each class, just too big. She has since graduated Monmouth and she preferred the small quiet campus feel. Nothing wrong with that...

Don't want to call you out on this post but some of your statements are incorrect in the way you said them. "Each" class is not 70 students. "Some" classes are large and are mostly the 100 level classes. But almost all schools have large freshman and 100 level classes. I have no doubt Monmouth did. Once they are in their major class sizes are not large. Statistics below.

Rutgers has changed the way classes are scheduled. The thought that "bus ride to each class" is also wrong. If you are a SEB's student 80% of your classes are on Cook , engineering ,Busch. Labor Relations on Livi etc. My son's junior and senior year he told me most of his classes were in two buildings. do you need to get on busses for some electives and freshman year, yes, but not "bus ride to each class" .

Rutgers is big but each campus is just like one small college. Each campus has their own student center, dining hall, library,rec center etc.

100% understand if a student wants a small school feel but the three schools you mentioned are basically commuter schools and especially on the weekends. Last but not least those schools do not even come close to RU in academics.

Everyone has their own taste and opinion and I am glad she had fun at Monmouth.

 

[lwyrup]

Not trying to make this into a pissing match or debate your conclusions, and I totally understand this post is to incite some sort of shouting match (and my comment will likely go unread by OP), but do you honestly think recruits care about half of those things?

They care about: (1) playing time; (2) winning; (3) getting to the next level; (4) location; (5) maybe facilities; (6) maybe fan support; and (7) maybe academics.

Rutgers can offer more playing time and higher quality education; Seton Hall has the upper hand on everything else. And yes, I'm including location because many local recruits want to play in front of family (and they get that opportunity not only at home games but at MSG, Nova, Providence, and the Big East Tournament).

Neither team is a top-tier basketball school but Seton Hall has won more, has put more players in the NBA (albeit, not many), has much better fan support (which is saying something for a school that has much less alumni), and has better facilities.

As for SHU getting arenas paid for by taxpayers, that's a pretty dumb comment (and laughable at that since Rutgers, being a state school, gets everything paid for by taxpayer money). SHU pays rent in arenas that were built for professional teams, which many of you probably follow.

You are a much bigger school that plays in a stronger conference; however, Rutgers basketball has a culture of losing. Once you land on a coach that has some success in the Big Ten, the above may change.

The average recruit is 18 years old, currently born around 1998. So ask yourself, why would a recruit want to play for a team that hasn't played a meaningful game in March in nearly three decades, seven years before they were born?

 

[mikebal9]

Don't want to call you out on this post but some of your statements are incorrect in the way you said them. "Each" class is not 70 students. "Some" classes are large and are mostly the 100 level classes. But almost all schools have large freshman and 100 level classes. I have no doubt Monmouth did. Once they are in their major class sizes are not large. Statistics below.

Rutgers has changed the way classes are scheduled. The thought that "bus ride to each class" is also wrong. If you are a SEB's student 80% of your classes are on Cook , engineering ,Busch. Labor Relations on Livi etc. My son's junior and senior year he told me most of his classes were in two buildings. do you need to get on busses for some electives and freshman year, yes, but not "bus ride to each class" .

Rutgers is big but each campus is just like one small college. Each campus has their own student center, dining hall, library,rec center etc.

!00% understand if a student wants a small school feel but the three school you mentioned are basically commuter schools and especially on the weekends. LAst but not least those school do not even come close to RU in academics.

Everyone has their own taste and opinion and I am glad she had funn at Monmouth.

My wife went to Monmouth. Her biggest class, including undergraduate and graduate was about 30-40 kids. At RU, I took Bio, Chem, and a few others at Hickman Hall with 300+ kids.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Basketball is the only sport Seton hall has in my opinion.

They have had a good baseball program for quite a while.

It's hard to compare a state university to a private school like SHU.

Both are good schools.

Basketball wise, they have pretty much been better for the last 25 to 30 years.
Their arena is much nicer aside from it not being on campus.

Though, having an on-campus arena is only beneficial when lots of students actually go to games.
That hasn't happened at RU too often of late.

 

[MoobyCow]

I never get these sorts of questions. People like different things, so often some people will make a different choice than you because their priorities and preferences are different.

 

[ScarletDave]

I'm not sure how many of you actually went to Rutgers but the "cozy" feel happens here too .. i.e. If you are engineering, math, science etc, you basically never have to leave Busch. I mean yes it's all Rutgers, but you basically have 4/5 campuses - each one has a student center, housing, a dining hall, library, etc - in theory other than a class or 2 you never have to leave the campus you live on if you don't want to. I wouldn't say Monmouth or whoever NJ school is any smaller than one of the RU campuses. However, if you then want the big school feel, you have all these amazing places around campus at your disposal, with the big sporting venues, the downtown of Easton/George Street, and so many cool restaurants and study places like the Yard, Academic buildings, etc. like they say, you can make a Big school small, but you can't take a small school and make it big.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

Home games in Newark near Portuguese and Brazilian restaurants in Ironbound? One for the Hall.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

I never get these sorts of questions. People like different things, so often some people will make a different choice than you because their priorities and preferences are different.

yep .... they devolve into -
Person A: I love Ford trucks they're the best, can't see why anybody would by a Chevy
Person B: Aw Fords suck, my uncle's college classmate's brother had a Ford it fried the motor in 20,00 miles .. Chevy's are better

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Basketball is the only sport Seton hall has in my opinion.

Was a good baseball school back in the 70s.

 

[RC1978]

My wife went to Monmouth. Her biggest class, including undergraduate and graduate was about 30-40 kids. At RU, I took Bio, Chem, and a few others at Hickman Hall with 300+ kids.

Just saying:


2-9 students: 10% of classes
10-19 students: 27% of classes
20-29 students: 25% of classes
30-39 students: 11% of classes
40-49 students: 6% of classes
50-99 students: 12% of classes
100-150 students 8% of classes

And those top range classes are usually freshman classes with recitation classes with small groups.

I am not saying RU does not have large classes but his statement said "each" class is 70 students. That is not true in any sense. 63% of classes are less then 29 students.

 

[TMCB]

I still say shu got a cream puff deal using new arenas paid for by tax dollars. Rutgers is the state University and should have use of those. Shu is private and should not. If they played in walsh no recruit would come.

 

[mikebal9]

Just saying:


2-9 students: 10% of classes
10-19 students: 27% of classes
20-29 students: 25% of classes
30-39 students: 11% of classes
40-49 students: 6% of classes
50-99 students: 12% of classes
100-150 students 8% of classes

And those top range classes are usually freshman classes with recitation classes with small groups.

I am not saying RU does not have large classes but his statement said "each" class is 70 students. That is not true in any sense. 63% of classes are less then 29 students.

Those numbers don't match my experience at all. In my first 2 years at RU, I think I had 1 class under 150 kids.

 

[higgins3]

A basketball recruit would consider Seton Hall basketball over Rutgers basketball because Seton Hall Basketball is currently and historically better than Rutgers Basketball.

Simple.

That will change, but that is what it is at the current moment.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

Just saying:


2-9 students: 10% of classes
10-19 students: 27% of classes
20-29 students: 25% of classes
30-39 students: 11% of classes
40-49 students: 6% of classes
50-99 students: 12% of classes
100-150 students 8% of classes

And those top range classes are usually freshman classes with recitation classes with small groups.

I am not saying RU does not have large classes but his statement said "each" class is 70 students. That is not true in any sense. 63% of classes are less then 29 students.

Did not read it as though the poster was making a sweeping statement about ALL classes at RU - seemed like the statement related to what they experienced on the specific tour that was taken when doing a campus visit with the granddaughter. " The worst visit was Rutgers. Each class was approximately 70 students per class"

Astounding how big of an impact the tour guide presentation can have - and equally amazing how the quality of a tour & what ends up getting emphasis will vary from tour guide to tour guide - and from school to school . Sometimes it is due the the guide - and sometimes things get skewed by particular questions from member of the group on the tour .Was on a tour once - when a parent began asking question after question about campus security, locking of dorms, and on & on ..... lasting impression ended up - that was a school with safety questions ... which was not right - but thoughts were planted..

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Did not read it as though the poster was making a sweeping statement about ALL classes at RU - seemed like the statement related to what they experienced on the specific tour that was taken when doing a campus visit with the granddaughter. " The worst visit was Rutgers. Each class was approximately 70 students per class"

Astounding how big of an impact the tour guide presentation can have - and equally amazing how the quality of a tour & what ends up getting emphasis will vary from tour guide to tour guide - and from school to school . Sometimes it is due the the guide - and sometimes things get skewed by particular questions from member of the group on the tour .Was on a tour once - when a parent began asking question after question about campus security, locking of dorms, and on & on ..... lasting impression ended up - that was a school with safety questions ... which was not right - but thoughts were planted..

I'm in agreement about tours. Daughter has attended RU football games for 18 years. In her mind she was always going to RU. Tour was terrible. Other schools do a far better job selling their schools.

 

[cyrock3]

Kids may prefer SHU because they prefer to play in the Big East, play local teams with great history, and play at MSG. They might want a team with more success of winning, and a player in the NBA (Whitehead) who is clearly going places.

I understand you don't follow basketball kyk, but posts like this one don't help us. This one would have been better served on the Round Table.

 

[S_Janowski]

Not trying to make this into a pissing match or debate your conclusions, and I totally understand this post is to incite some sort of shouting match (and my comment will likely go unread by OP), but do you honestly think recruits care about half of those things?

They care about: (1) playing time; (2) winning; (3) getting to the next level; (4) location; (5) maybe facilities; (6) maybe fan support; and (7) maybe academics.

Rutgers can offer more playing time and higher quality education; Seton Hall has the upper hand on everything else. And yes, I'm including location because many local recruits want to play in front of family (and they get that opportunity not only at home games but at MSG, Nova, Providence, and the Big East Tournament).

Neither team is a top-tier basketball school but Seton Hall has won more, has put more players in the NBA (albeit, not many), has much better fan support (which is saying something for a school that has much less alumni), and has better facilities.

As for SHU getting arenas paid for by taxpayers, that's a pretty dumb comment (and laughable at that since Rutgers, being a state school, gets everything paid for by taxpayer money). SHU pays rent in arenas that were built for professional teams, which many of you probably follow.

You are a much bigger school that plays in a stronger conference; however, Rutgers basketball has a culture of losing. Once you land on a coach that has some success in the Big Ten, the above may change.

The average recruit is 18 years old, currently born around 1998. So ask yourself, why would a recruit want to play for a team that hasn't played a meaningful game in March in nearly three decades, seven years before they were born?

Stopped reading at "Rutgers, being a state school, gets everything paid for by taxpayer money".

Funding was better in the 1990's than it is now and i think only around 20% of Rutgers budget is currently state funded.

So no, everything is not paid for by taxpayer money at Rutgers.

 

[arigoldrutgers]

I think some people on this board need to change their definition of a "good school". When applying for jobs, it's all about name recognition. When a managing director at Goldman is deciding who to interview out of a group of majority ivy leaguers, the applicant coming from a school like Rutgers, a brand name the director knows about and has colleagues from, will win out over a school like Seton Hall every time.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

I'm in agreement about tours. Daughter has attended RU football games for 18 years. In her mind she was always going to RU. Tour was terrible. Other schools do a far better job selling their schools.

Speaking from perspective of a tour guide at Rutgers, I'd be very interested in knowing when your daughter took her tour, especially seeing as how we've relatively recently re-vamped our tour program. Rutgers is a tricky school to tour people on because it's so spread out, but we certainly do our best.

 

[DanceAppreciationTA]

I never get these sorts of questions. People like different things, so often some people will make a different choice than you because their priorities and preferences are different.

Bingo, this all that needs to be said.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Speaking from perspective of a tour guide at Rutgers, I'd be very interested in knowing when your daughter took her tour, especially seeing as how we've relatively recently re-vamped our tour program. Rutgers is a tricky school to tour people on because it's so spread out, but we certainly do our best.

Probably fall of 2015. I do realize the campus set up makes giving tours a challenge. For this wasn't an issue as mom and dad are both graduates and daughter has been on campus every year of her life attending football and bball games, and swimming at the Werblin center.

 

[SJScarlet]

Kids may prefer SHU because they prefer to play in the Big East, play local teams with great history, and play at MSG. They might want a team with more success of winning, and a player in the NBA (Whitehead) who is clearly going places.

I understand you don't follow basketball kyk, but posts like this one don't help us. This one would have been better served on the Round Table.

Big east will increasingly be an inferior conference trading on name recognition from many years ago.

Big east has teams from Nebraska and Ohio. Sound familiar?

Rutgers plays at MSG twice this year and the big ten tournament is at MSG next year.

I think the idea is that Rutgers is trying to win. We are no longer horrible and it will only get better.

Isaiah whitehead, a player whose services they acquired by hiring his coach.

 

[arigoldrutgers]

I am sorry, but that is hugely not the case. Finding a job is about their being a demand, and you having a connection. If there isn't either, you can still get a job, but name recognition is secondary to experience, demand, and connections.

I'm speaking just from the industry I have experience in. All major Wall Street banks hire their new analysts through recruitment programs. They decide before hand which campuses to interview from and that's how they get the majority of their analysts for internships and first year programs. I can assure you that Seton Hall is not on the radar for large banks like GS, JP.

 

[higgins3]

I'm speaking just from the industry I have experience in. All major Wall Street banks hire their new analysts through recruitment programs. They decide which campuses to interview from and that's how they get the majority of their analysts for internships and first year programs. I can assure you that Seton Hall is not on the radar for large banks like GS, JP.

Gotcha. I deleted my post because you had a very good point. I agree to what you stated that it is very specific given the industry. Thanks for the knowledge.

 

[higgins3]

Still cant figure out why any kid would want to go to SHU when you can go to RU. Like what exactly does SHU offer? I had friends who went there who would come to RU and visit me all the time because they said SHU campus was a ghost town and dead with nothing to do on weekends.

1) RU is a better school
2) were soon to have better facilities
3) we have an on campus arena
4) we have better fan support (yes we do when were even halfway decent)
5) better school
6) not a commuter school and we have a college atmosphere
7) better campus
8) better dorms
9) better dining halls
10) better conference

I cannot think of one reason why a kid would choose SHU over RU

A basketball recruit(not the wisest decision) goes to a d1 widely to try to win, and get to the next level. It is such a simple answer that most cannot believe it. Seton Hall is a better basketball school.

That will change in 2-3 years.

 

[cyrock3]

Big east will increasingly be an inferior conference trading on name recognition from many years ago.

Big east has teams from Nebraska and Ohio. Sound familiar?

Rutgers plays at MSG twice this year and the big ten tournament is at MSG next year.

I think the idea is that Rutgers is trying to win. We are no longer horrible and it will only get better.

Isaiah whitehead, a player whose services they acquired by hiring his coach.

Big East has SJU/Nova/Providence/GT/SHU for local metro flavor.

Big Ten has UMD/RU.

The Big East won the championship last year in a great game. That recognition isn't fading any time soon.

The Big Ten hasn't won the tournament in a long time.

From an optics standpoint we can't claim superiority.

 

[RU MAN]

Those numbers don't match my experience at all. In my first 2 years at RU, I think I had 1 class under 150 kids.

Well that's your experience. I was in a program and had only one class that had 100+ in it. Other than that, all of my classes were anywhere from 30 to 12 students. It depends on what school you were in and what your major was.

My sister graduated from U of Michigan and her entire freshman year consisted of 100 to 300 kids a class. Once she got into her major her class size dropped to under 30 kids a class.

The bottom line is Rutgers versus Seton Hall is a silly comparison. Both school offer different things to different people and most of the kids that we're talking about regarding BB don't give a crap about the school except for can they get them to the NBA. Yes, even though many of them will never sniff the NBA, they all think at this age that they're going to the NBA. Seton Hall has a better track record. Period. We have hired garbage coaches for nearly two decades. I think we FINALLY got it right with Pikiell. One he and his staff start winning regularly, Rutgers will be able to change that pereption and we can become like a Wisconsin where we have excellent academics with excellent top revenue sports teams.

 

[AshSaturday]

FOR BASKETBALL

1) Easier academics-one can get "passed along" easier and from the President/Monseignor position down Seton Hall has been willing to cheat in the past.

2) Seton Hall has attracted players from catholic schools-. They feel more comfortable n such an environment and the school can BS such. Two of the worst people-sister included-I ever met were in my sister's high school class. They can sell the smaller school thing.

3) Exposure (in the past). Bob Wenzel told us in a Court Club Exec meeting that TV exposure at a given school is oft the #1 desire on a recruits list. Rutgers beat Seton hall by 25-35 points per game before our athletic administration decided to turn down 2-3 Big East invites (and wound up in the Eastern 8 and Atlantic 10 vs Big East) Before then only Syracuse was really the only better program than RU in the East. The rise of Villanova and Seton Hall is definitely correlated with the fall of Rutgers.
Better teams get more exposure and for the most part after 1990 the prior were on par if not better than Rutgers. Rutgers gave Seton Hall, Villanova, UCONN et al a good 15 year head start over Rutgers before any..

The Big East with more local rivals is still likely highly thought of amongst many players.

4) Bad coaching choices. With the exception of Waters and perhaps Jordan as a person top Rutgers athletic administration (seemingly until Pikiell) has made horrendous coaching choices. How many players were abused or transferred under Bannon, Hill Jr. and Rice. Rutgers already had a bad reputation in-state, a not so good recent record in the 90's and 2000's-and most players who had a chance to avoid Rutgers did so. The current Seton Hall coach is considered a good coach.

5) Neglect to the program. The recent approval of facilities was long overdue and the RAC is still outdated compared to many arenas. No later than Pernetti/Schiano it was obvious football was king at RU.

6) $$$? The power brokers in college basketball who sway players have better relationships with the catholic schools who tend to "illegally recruit" players. A high number of top recruits in NJ for hoops come from catholic schools.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Not sure where someone got this arena is paid for to SHU's benefit, that is 100% inaccurate....SHU pays the Prudential Center's landlord rent each and every season and ii is not their arena at all......they can't even practice at the Prudential Center...Facilities will not be better after ours get built in a year or so.....Coaching staff now is advantage RU if our staff stays intact for a couple of seasons after this year....

Ironically, SHU shares a recruiting territory with RU, but if RU improves as expected, SHU will be a part of the battle to measure against head to head, but the programs are being built for their respective conferences......the B1G requires more size, strength and bulk to matchup for 70% of the schedule we will play every year, while the Big East has become more of a transition league with more undersized/skilled players.....

There is very little size recruited in the conference top to bottom, you can get away with playing smaller players in the frontcourt in the Big East vs the Big Ten. It will be interesting to see how these matchups develop head to head to see if the advantage is for the smaller/quicker teams or the size advantage of RU.

 

[bac2therac]

Still cant figure out why any kid would want to go to SHU when you can go to RU. Like what exactly does SHU offer? I had friends who went there who would come to RU and visit me all the time because they said SHU campus was a ghost town and dead with nothing to do on weekends.

1) RU is a better school
2) were soon to have better facilities
3) we have an on campus arena
4) we have better fan support (yes we do when were even halfway decent)
5) better school
6) not a commuter school and we have a college atmosphere
7) better campus
8) better dorms
9) better dining halls
10) better conference

I cannot think of one reason why a kid would choose SHU over RU

where to begin? You are not looking at it like a high school basketball player who hopes to play in the NBA. A lot is based on past success and past support for the basketball program. Seton Hall's perception flat out dwarfs Rutgers and it has ever since RU decided not to join the Big East back in the late 70s. RU is also thought of as a school that does not care or want to spend money on basketball. Now that maybe changing but its going to take several years for they get the message and that is if RU shows they are willing to do what they need to show they are supporting hoops

dorms, campus, conference, dining halls, social scenes do not mean anything...basketball is an entirely different apple than football

oh and did you just claim SHU has better fan support than RU...lmao...when RU wins at a high level that may be true but since they havent in 25 plus years then its silly to bring this up.

Based on perception, support, and history, its tough for a kid not to choose SHU over RU unfortunatley...hopefully Pikiell and Hobbs are on their way to changing that.