Finding ways to win despite shortcomings=COACHING

[RUsince52]

I liked seeing coach Knight jump off the bench and scream at Freeman to get back when he paused and posed after a dunk. The entire staff is in the game 100% of the time, coaching up the players.

I like it. If you forget to do something on the court, we'll remind you, in a constructive way.

 

[RUChoppin]

).
Choppin , since our last discussion, Ru has hit 6 threes in back to back games, (6-18 and ( 6-16) . If they can keep it up in conference games we have a chance .

For them to average six per game, they'll need to have games with 8 & 9 threes, too. As was mentioned in the other thread, though, any given game can make the three point # moot.

 

[bac2therac]

You have no clue if you think that was a bad FDU team. Their guy Anderson is as good a player and shooter as we will play this year. Ohio State could not handle him nor could we . They are well coached. They run good sets. Unfortunately they have no depth and no bench and not enough height or length. But their starting 5 competes and plays hard. I will listen to Coach Pikiell and the other people that picked the team to win their conference. Plus I will trust my eyes. That was not a bad team.

sorry FDU isnt good, the game was close because RU couldnt make foul shots or sink 3s especially in the first half..thats why it was close not because they were so dicey. They literally play no defense and stuck around in part because of my first two points and that RU defense was a little more pourous than usual.

FDU lost to Army and St Peters by 19, 26, and 17 respectively, their only wins were FDU Florham and Lispcomb but carry on that 2-8 teams are not bad. If they were so good they would be able to beat those programs who are nothing special...and yes I know they only lost at 8 to Ohio State, it doesnt make them not bad just like Hartford is still awful even though they beat BC and lost to RU by 2. Full body of work here and results say they are bad.

 

[bac2therac]

It's up to you to choose what lens to view this game and this team with.

Lens A...coming off a epicly bad year hoping for respectibility
Lens B...a team that you hope wins 1/3 or more B1G THIS year and better next year.

Through Lens B there is a lot to worry about. A game like this questions the thought process that we can be competitive in most games. This was FDU, a bad basketball team.

1. our interior defense was attrocious
2. our starting 2 guard was 0-5 from the line. if we are going to win B1G games I'd think they will be tight. Can Johnson, our best defender, be trusted down the stretch with the lead going to the line
3. Our best player sits the last 5 minutes because of defense. Maybe the fact he was sick was more of the issue
4. Freeman's inability to finish inside is a concern.
5. If we don't shoot 5-7 from 3 in 2nd half the game most likely is a nail biter

Lens A
1. Likes the W
2. Likes the fact that the 2 freshman have such high BB IQs
3. Likes that we were 5-7 from 3 in 2nd half
4. Likes the assist to TO ratio

this is a very fair assessment of last night. I like that we won the game and we continue to find ways to win without dominating or playing a complete game...on the other hand continuing to let these teams like FDU stay in the game a bit longer (although I was never worried about the outcome) concerns me when the competition level is much tougher and the other team isnt going to wear down and fall apart

 

[goru7]

sorry FDU isnt good, the game was close because RU couldnt make foul shots or sink 3s especially in the first half..thats why it was close not because they were so dicey. They literally play no defense and stuck around in part because of my first two points and that RU defense was a little more pourous than usual.

FDU lost to Army and St Peters by 19, 26, and 17 respectively, their only wins were FDU Florham and Lispcomb but carry on that 2-8 teams are not bad. If they were so good they would be able to beat those programs who are nothing special...and yes I know they only lost at 8 to Ohio State, it doesnt make them not bad just like Hartford is still awful even though they beat BC and lost to RU by 2. Full body of work here and results say they are bad.

I strongly disagree with you. I guess we will see how they do in the conference they play in and then we can revisit at the end of the year. I will be happy to admit I was wrong as hopefully you will as well. If you thought their starting 5 was bad, again I strongly disagree. They have no bench, no depth and not enough height and depth up front but they have shooters , run a good offense, are well coached and will likely succeed this year. How you are willing to dismiss the Ohio State and Rutgers games , especially when it was 59-55 in the second half last night, as aberrations but cite the other losses when they were injured makes little sense to me.

 

[goru7]

For them to average six per game, they'll need to have games with 8 & 9 threes, too. As was mentioned in the other thread, though, any given game can make the three point # moot.

I can definitely see a couple of games with 8-9 . Not a lot but a couple. But I do see 6 a game as doable.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I strongly disagree with you. I guess we will see how they do in the conference they play in and then we can revisit at the end of the year. I will be happy to admit I was wrong as hopefully you will as well. If you thought their starting 5 was bad, again I strongly disagree. They have no bench, no depth and not enough height and depth up front but they have shooters , run a good offense, are well coached and will likely succeed this year. How you are willing to dismiss the Ohio State and Rutgers games , especially when it was 59-55 in the second half last night, as aberrations but cite the other losses when they were injured makes little sense to me.

Their conference is a joke.

 

[goru7]

Their conference is a joke.

Greene, stop looking at your computer programs and start looking at the players you actually saw play against us and against Ohio State. I would take that Anderson kid in a minute and I wish we had a consistent shooter like that kid Potts. Evaluate the talent. We all know 2-8 does not necessarily mean a team is terrible it depends on who and where you have played the games . Just like 10-1 is viewed as not very good.

 

[RUChoppin]

Also, for some more context around our three-point shooting:

FDU gave up 7.4 threes per game to their first 9 opponents... only 3 of the 9 hit fewer than 8 threes. And one of our six was an uncontested garbage time shot Mike Williams threw up at the end of the game to beat the shot clock.

Stony Brook gave up 7.7 threes per game to their other 9 opponents... only 3 of 9 hit fewer than 7 threes. We shot .333 against them, which was tied for the lowest 3P% of any opponent.

Fordham has given up 7.2 threes per game so far through 11 games, including 15 @ SJU (on 31 shots) and 12 @ ETSU (on 23 shots). Hopefully we'll hit 6 or better again.

Looking further ahead:
SHU has given up 6.5/game so far.
Wisconsin has given up 6.4/game so far.
PA St has given up 7.3/game
MSU has given up 6.5/game.
Iowa has given up 8.6/game.
NW has given up 6.6/game.

 

[goru7]

Also, for some more context around our three-point shooting:

FDU gave up 7.4 threes per game to their first 9 opponents... only 3 of the 9 hit fewer than 8 threes. And one of our six was an uncontested garbage time shot Mike Williams threw up at the end of the game to beat the shot clock.

Stony Brook gave up 7.7 threes per game to their other 9 opponents... only 3 of 9 hit fewer than 7 threes. We shot .333 against them, which was tied for the lowest 3P% of any opponent.

Fordham has given up 7.2 threes per game so far through 11 games, including 15 @ SJU (on 31 shots) and 12 @ ETSU (on 23 shots). Hopefully we'll hit 6 or better again.

Looking further ahead:
SHU has given up 6.5/game so far.
Wisconsin has given up 6.4/game so far.
PA St has given up 7.3/game
MSU has given up 6.5/game.
Iowa has given up 8.6/game.
NW has given up 6.6/game.

So the stats suggest hitting 6 threes against the upcoming opponents is likely , which is the only thing I can hope for.

 

[RUChoppin]

Greene, stop looking at your computer programs and start looking at the players you actually saw play against us and against Ohio State. I would take that Anderson kid in a minute and I wish we had a consistent shooter like that kid Potts. Evaluate the talent. We all know 2-8 does not necessarily mean a team is terrible it depends on who and where you have played the games . Just like 10-1 is viewed as not very good.

I did look at them... they really didn't play much in the way of defense. If we could have hit 75% of our free throws, we'd have scored 90 on them (as four other teams have done to them this year). Their defensive rating is 327th out of 351. They had a couple of good shooters, and that should serve them well in a weak conference.

To put FDU's conference in perspective (using massey, which was updated this morning):
206 Long Island
216 Wagner
268 Robert Morris
270 Bryant
275 Sacred Heart
285 Mt. St. Mary's
300 St. Francis PA
301 FDU
318 Central CT
333 St Francis NY

 

[RUChoppin]

So the stats suggest hitting 6 threes against the upcoming opponents is likely , which is the only thing I can hope for.

Fordham hasn't defended the perimeter very well. Nor has PA St. or Iowa.

 

[RUChoppin]

Some more perspective on our 3 point shooting:

When looking at our Div-I opponents, we've only hit more threes than they have allowed on average one time (Niagara: 7 RU threes vs. 6.8 against other opponents).

Overall, our opponents have given up 664 threes on 1871 attempts (.355) over 88 games, for an average of 7.5 per game. Only two teams (Miami 5.8; Niagara 6.8) have given up fewer than 7.1/game on average.

We've hit 48/166 (.289) against those opponents, for an average of 4.8/game.

SHU, Wisconsin, MSU, and NW are giving up fewer threes per game than any team we've played but Miami (who held us to 3).

 

[goru7]

I did look at them... they really didn't play much in the way of defense. If we could have hit 75% of our free throws, we'd have scored 90 on them (as four other teams have done to them this year). Their defensive rating is 327th out of 351. They had a couple of good shooters, and that should serve them well in a weak conference.

To put FDU's conference in perspective (using massey, which was updated this morning):
206 Long Island
216 Wagner
268 Robert Morris
270 Bryant
275 Sacred Heart
285 Mt. St. Mary's
300 St. Francis PA
301 FDU
318 Central CT
333 St Francis NY

Yeah but the lousy conference you speak of already has Wagner beating Uconn and LIU beating St John's and Hartford on the road and Sacred Heart beating Hofstra and Fordham on the road. The game and the win last night had more to do with Rutgers being a more complete deeper team than the fact that FDU was bad.

 

[RUChoppin]

Yeah but the lousy conference you speak of already has Wagner beating Uconn and LIU beating St John's and Hartford on the road and Sacred Heart beating Hofstra and Fordham on the road. The game and the win last night had more to do with Rutgers being a more complete deeper team than the fact that FDU was bad.

That's like saying the boat sank more because of the water coming over the side than because of the hole in the bottom. It's realistically a bit of both.

Here are the massey rankings of the teams you mentioned, which are apparently "good wins" that prove somehow that the NEC isn't a weak conference.

110 UConn
170 Hofstra
195 St. John's
246 Fordham
307 Hartford

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

Yes, the NEC is a weak conference. FDU was still an NCAA team last spring and was predicted to win that conference in the preseason poll. It's convenient to ignore jellyman's point on Potts being out for most of their games. He played a handful of minutes two games ago, enough minutes to foul out in their previous game, then a full set of minutes last night. FDU will improve as the season moves on.

Good grief, so many want to just point at computer rankings to suggest we aren't improving much yet. Nobody's scheduling the selection show party yet to see where we'll be dancing in March, but enjoy the ride!

 

[goru7]

That's like saying the boat sank more because of the water coming over the side than because of the hole in the bottom. It's realistically a bit of both.

Here are the massey rankings of the teams you mentioned, which are apparently "good wins" that prove somehow that the NEC isn't a weak conference.

110 UConn
170 Hofstra
195 St. John's
246 Fordham
307 Hartford

With the exception of Hartford, the teams they have beat are perceived to be comparable to us. We have shown we are likely better than all of them. Plus the original point was that FDU was a bad team which I disagree with and the response was that if the win their conference , it doesn't matter because the conference is lousy. The NEC even when Monmouth was in the league was thought of as one of the weaker leagues , like 25-31 range but there was a good FDU team that I believed gave one of the top guns, maybe Connecticut a great game in the tourney a number of years back. A couple of the top teams from lesser conferences give good teams a run for their money in the tourney.

 

[RUChoppin]

Yes, the NEC is a weak conference. FDU was still an NCAA team last spring and was predicted to win that conference in the preseason poll. It's convenient to ignore jellyman's point on Potts being out for most of their games. He played a handful of minutes two games ago, enough minutes to foul out in their previous game, then a full set of minutes last night. FDU will improve as the season moves on.

Good grief, so many want to just point at computer rankings to suggest we aren't improving much yet. Nobody's scheduling the selection show party yet to see where we'll be dancing in March, but enjoy the ride!

No one's saying we're not improving - I think we're vastly improved this year! Truly, Pike and staff have overseen a true "night and day" turnaround for this program, and we're clearly moving in the right direction going forward.

Getting ahead of ourselves by saying things like "FDU's a good team" or that this win is somehow meaningful is a bit much, though.

FDU was an NCAA team last year because they won their conference tourney... at 18-15 against the 330th worst schedule in the country, they won their conference tournament and got an automatic bid. Yes, Potts is a good player... but that doesn't make FDU suddenly a good team. They are what they are... a below-average Div-I school who should lose to mid-low-pack Big ten schools by double digits most of the time.

 

[RUChoppin]

With the exception of Hartford, the teams they have beat are perceived to be comparable to us. We have shown we are likely better than all of them. Plus the original point was that FDU was a bad team which I disagree with and the response was that if the win their conference , it doesn't matter because the conference is lousy. The NEC even when Monmouth was in the league was thought of as one of the weaker leagues , like 25-31 range but there was a good FDU team that I believed gave one of the top guns, maybe Connecticut a great game in the tourney a number of years back. A couple of the top teams from lesser conferences give good teams a run for their money in the tourney.

Yeah, and we're not perceived to be very good either, by anyone outside our own fanbase. And I agree that we're probably better than all of those teams listed this year.... so not sure what makes beating teams that aren't as good as we are evidence that the NEC isn't a weak conference.

As for the NEC... a Mike Rice-led Robert Morris put a scare into Villanova in 2010 (lost 73-70 in OT), at which point we hired him. In 1998, FDU put a bit of a scare into UConn (lost 93-85), too. Those are the only times in the last 20 years that the NEC has come within single digits in the Round of 64.

Anyway... ready to move on to Fordham, and then hopefully 11-1 into Newark to play SHU.

 

[jellyman_rivals307848]

Here is my bottom line:

1) RU has NOT proven it is a good team yet. RU HAS proven it is a poor outside shooting team, however.

2) FDU is NOT a very good team ... but IS better than their current record.

3) It is very exciting to see RU at 10-1, regardless of who their opponents are. It is also exciting to see how much better RU has been playing versus last year. I ascribe this to a combination of things, including excellent coaching, health, a full roster, player development and newly added players with different (and better) skill sets than in prior years.

 

[mikefla]

Miami was the quickest team RU has faced to date - and by far. FDU is a better team than their record shows - and will be better in conference (their 2nd best player, Potts, has missed most of the season due to injury, only back the last 2-3 games, including against RU). But let us not exaggerate to make a point.

not exaggerating one iota

I disagree....quick is different than fast
Miami may have had better footspeed on the run....coast to coast
but FDU guys could drive stop and pop at will
and
our guys guarded them pretty well IMO

 

[mikefla]

Mike fla, you have my vote for the most vibrant post. Emoji king!

Enjoy,sir.

Thank you sir![thumb2]:smiley:[thumb2]

I try not to let the over ANALysis and pickyness of this board ruin the joy I am feeling at the team actually having a pulse & have a learning curve. [cheers][thumb2][cheers]

Sooo many experts here LOL:zzz::zzz:

I do like the emogis & wish there were more:eyes::basketball::boom::bomb::burger::fries:izza:
all i am trying to do......after YEARS of ineptitude in hoops:joy:
is have,,,FUN!
:smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley:

Dont worry,,,its just a matter of time until someone tells me the emojis are irritating LOL
:chairshot::uzi::chairshot:

 

[TODDB33]

Man some people will not give credit where credit is due.If you want to play semantics and say we haven't proved we are a good team yet, and we haven't proved we can shoot the 3 then I would say we are leaps and bounds better than last year and we have shown we can hit the 3's ie 5 for 7 second half. Everything is not black and white. We haven't played one Big game yet and most are saying we will not do well and hope we win 3 or 4 games. What are you predicating this on - last years results or what you are seeing on the court now. Have you watched other Big teams do you know how good or bad they really are - probably not - Lets see how it goes and stop trying to analyze every little facet of the game to make your point. I have no idea how they will do but in watching them play I am very encouraged.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Let's give Laurent some credit here. Although he didn't contribute offensively, last night he was working hard on defense.

Isn't he supposed to work hard on defense?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Here is my bottom line:

RU HAS proven it is a poor outside shooting team, however.

.

Can we statisticly have any confidence in this statement yet?

 

[higgins3]

Thank you sir![thumb2]:smiley:[thumb2]

I try not to let the over ANALysis and pickyness of this board ruin the joy I am feeling at the team actually having a pulse & have a learning curve. [cheers][thumb2][cheers]

Sooo many experts here LOL:zzz::zzz:

I do like the emogis & wish there were more:eyes::basketball::boom::bomb::burger::fries:izza:
all i am trying to do......after YEARS of ineptitude in hoops:joy:
is have,,,FUN!
:smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley:

Dont worry,,,its just a matter of time until someone tells me the emojis are irritating LOL
:chairshot::uzi::chairshot:

Keep posting the emojis. But cmon, you posted every food but dollar dogs.

That is a sin on this board. People love the dollar dogs.

I am glad you are enjoynig the season. Get to the RAC, bring a friend, and be loud. Sorry for all the demands.

 

[Knights 1212]

I know FDU is not a great team but they are decent. Their two guards came into our game hitting 44% and 41% of their 3's. I also know Seton Hall played them with FDU missing Potts who might be their best player. SHU only led 33-28 at the half. With less than 4 minutes left in the game SHU only led 79-66 and that was FDU not even having Potts. We know that SHU is very good and they wound up winning 91-70. We won by 13 with Potts playing and we shot 14-29 on free throws. We would have won by 20 if we were 21-29 or just over 70% on our foul shots. We were at 69 plus % before the FDU game. You can compare almost anything you want but each game is different. Some people said we would not even win 10 games or so this season and now that we have won 10 they are still complaining. Why can't we just enjoy the ride? Some of our fans need to step it up a little and get out to the Fordham game as well as many of our other games.

 

[RUChoppin]

I know FDU is not a great team but they are decent. Their two guards came into our game hitting 44% and 41% of their 3's. I also know Seton Hall played them with FDU missing Potts who might be their best player. SHU only led 33-28 at the half. With less than 4 minutes left in the game SHU only led 79-66 and that was FDU not even having Potts. We know that SHU is very good and they wound up winning 91-70. We won by 13 with Potts playing and we shot 14-29 on free throws. We would have won by 20 if we were 21-29 or just over 70% on our foul shots. We were at 69 plus % before the FDU game. You can compare almost anything you want but each game is different. Some people said we would not even win 10 games or so this season and now that we have won 10 they are still complaining. Why can't we just enjoy the ride? Some of our fans need to step it up a little and get out to the Fordham game as well as many of our other games.

Few things here.

1. Not everyone "enjoys the ride" the same way. You can be super excited about us being 10-1, while also acknowledging the strength of the teams we played. You can be super excited about the prospects going forward, while also acknowledging that the road gets steeper from here and the team has its deficits. You can also temper your own expectations, and then be really happy when they're exceeded.

2. I agree that fans need to "step it up a little". Personally, I have a hard time getting out to games due to schedule conflicts - especially in December. I've been to two so far this year, which I think equals the total I've seen in person over the last three years. I'm hoping to get to at least 4-5 more games this year, and have gotten a friend who had never attended a game before to go see the Morgan State game with his son (and he's planning on seeing a couple more this season). I know it's not a lot, but it's what I can manage right now.

3. FDU has a couple of good shooters, but they really don't play much in the way of defense. Potts really came on toward the end of last year, and should help them as they move forward now that he's back from injury... but until they can keep Div-I teams from scoring an average of 83/game (and nearly half scoring 90+), they're going to struggle outside their conference.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

I'm just enjoying the ride and wondering if some have forgotten that RU has been the cupcake of cupcakes for other teams schedules for most of the past 2 Decades. RU does not have to win another game this year for me to already know that the change/philosophy in how this team plays is on the right track compared to recent years.

 

[RUChoppin]

I'm just enjoying the ride and wondering if some have forgotten that RU has been the cupcake of cupcakes for other teams schedules for most of the past 2 Decades. RU does not have to win another game this year for me to already know that the change/philosophy in how this team plays is on the right track compared to recent years.

Pike has really lived up to his "Knight and Day" mantra - the team passes the "eye test" much better than it has in years. There's a coherent offensive and defensive identity being developed. There's a real "team" concept and coaches that seem positive, engaged, and listened to. There's noticeable improvement among the players from last year, and as the season has progressed. There's optimism for the future - which might actually be the most impressive turnaround.

Love what Pike's been doing, love what the players have been putting out. Really hoping we can continue to grow throughout the season and shock some people (including myself).

 

[RU-ROCS]

Here is my bottom line:

1) RU has NOT proven it is a good team yet. RU HAS proven it is a poor outside shooting team, however.

2) FDU is NOT a very good team ... but IS better than their current record.

3) It is very exciting to see RU at 10-1, regardless of who their opponents are. It is also exciting to see how much better RU has been playing versus last year. I ascribe this to a combination of things, including excellent coaching, health, a full roster, player development and newly added players with different (and better) skill sets than in prior years.

Well said.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

FAN A...200th ranked team is tickled pink with our 10-1 start
FAN B...130th ranked team is very happy with our start, but knows improvement is necessary and acknowledges the weak SOS
FAN C...70th (or lower) ranked team expected the 10-1 start and is concerned the team hasn't "crushed" more teams

I have migrated from FAN A to FAN B. FAN C would never give credit to a FDU team.

 

[fluoxetine]

FDU is bad.

I'm not sure why people seem to think this is somehow a complaint about our team.

Like, FDU is objectively very bad. Our schedule, thus far, has been objectively very weak.

I am still very happy we are 10-1.